Why Utah should look closer to colorado deer Managment

U

UThunting

Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jul-06-08 AT 00:29AM (MST)[p]Here is what I see working for colorado

1 Tags are limited to small areas

2 Those smaller units can be managed for deer that are living there in the summer, fall or winter.

3 Also smaller units can be managed for differant managment goals Buck to doe ratios, Age class, trophy quality and number of deer.

4 Some units can be hunted by those that want to hunt every year but in trade give up Quality of experience or Trophy Quality.

5 Trophy hunters can hunt trophy units but will need to give up years or money to hunt those units.

6 Landowner can open there property to the public with landowner tags that they can sell keep or trade and they find that wildlife can be worth wild to keep on there property


Here is a couple more reasons
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UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah
 
Unfortunaltey our deer herd in Utah will never be anything more than what it is now. We have to many simps who can't handle the thought of not having a tag and killin their two point.
Then there are the MORONS who think killing more bucks will bring more deer into the picture.
Said it before and I will say it again. Utah deer hunting sucks and it will always suck. Nothing is going to change for the better, now or ever.
This is a chitty attitude I know but its the truth. I have layed my denial down and faced the fact.
UDWR is run by morons who don't even know what a giant buck should be. Get used to it, its only going to get worse.
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"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
 
isayNUNYA

I would say yes up to now it sucks in most places of Utah. But there is a time for change and that change in Utahs deer herds is now!

I think there is a way to keep most utah deer hunters Happy and that is better then what has been going on the last 10 years..

I dont know if they will make the right changes or not but I would bett they will be making changes in the next 5 years.

One think is for sure Utah DWR is Money run and there Big deer demand BIG Money.

I dont see them doing the landowner voucher deal as the CWMU operators in most casses are making a killing now and will not give up there Big investments they have made and I do not blame them.

I have been told micro mangment wont work. But I say look at the good CWMUs around Utah Most can manage there 10k acres and make a change why cant Utah dwr ????



UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah
 
Sad thing is nothing will change.
They say micro managing will not work but thats what colorado is doing.
Funny thing is when they (DWR) gets serious about improving a unit such as the Henry Mt's they close it and let herds rebuild then limit permits. Makes you wonder why that would not work for the rest of the state.
I seriously doubt it will ever happen state wide.




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"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-06-08 AT 12:52PM (MST)[p]Get ready for some good change next year boys and girls.
Right now Utah has five regions in which they manage.
Next year the "big 5" regions are being broken into around 24 units and yes....."micro managed".

I like what you said about Utah's CWMU's, UThunting.
I guide on some of this states best "micromanaged" CWMU's and we take incredible world class mule deer off them every single year.
Micro managing DOES work, provided you have all the right elements.

And Like NUNYA's spells out.....mentality goes a long way.







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Utah WILL be micro-managed for deer starting in 2009, regardless of the BS spewed by some on here. And, it would be the death nail of hunting for ALL if the whole state were to be managed like the Henries. Having some great trophy areas is alright, but to even suggest it be statewide goes beyond absurd.

The new deer management plan being drafted right now, that will be presented at the RAC's this fall, will have micro units, with different objectives for different units such as buck:doe ratios and overall herd numbers. Some micro units will be easier to obtain a tag for, others will be more difficult. This will allow hunters to decide how often they get a tag.

I would love to see a provision madating that if you get a point for deer you can NOT get a buck tag that year. A bonus point should be just that, a bonus for not getting a tag that year.

No 'rational' sportsman would push for LE deer hunting like what the Henries is. I can promise SFW/MDF/UBA and any other sportsmans group that cares about the future of hunting would/WILL oppose such nonsensical proposals.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Thanks Pro, excellent post.

As you stated, you cannot turn this entire state into a trophy unit, that would kill us for sure.









48288e6577d023b6.jpg
 
Like I said before

1 Tags are limited to small areas

2 Those smaller units can be managed for deer that are living there in the summer, fall or winter.

3 Also smaller units can be managed for differant managment goals Buck to doe ratios, Age class, trophy quality and number of deer.

4 Some units can be hunted by those that want to hunt every year but in trade give up Quality of experience or Trophy Quality.

5 Trophy hunters can hunt trophy units but will need to give up years or money to hunt those units.

6 Landowner can open there property to the public with landowner tags that they can sell keep or trade and they find that wildlife can be worth wild to keep on there property

I do not want to see everything managed like the henrys that would be extremely harmful to hunting and hunters..

But instead I want people to be able to choose what kind of hunt they would want Quality every so many years or opportunity every year! I think most people can live with that.

UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah
 
I think you know my stance on Utah's mule deer. I'm happy that we're going to try something new. What we're currently doing isn't working.

I find it very interesting that Utah is going to finally make some changes. It's been said over and over on here that complaining on the internet doesn't do any good. I'd be willing to bet that the YEARS of us complaining on this website has a whole lot more to do with the upcoming changes than given credit for....
;-)
 
The fasest way for Utah hunters to bring change in the deer managment practices in Utah is to make your voices heard. You ALL need to unite for one cause and let the fish and game know that you demand better deer managment in your state. A

ll animals under Utahs Managment are a public resource if the guys running it can't get it done and enough people(it would take a all of you) were to petition for change then you would get change. Nothing will ever happen by just talking about it on MM.

Try finding a sportsams group to take up the cause they understand money and that is what would be raised if they would take up the cause from dontaions and fund raisers and campaigning. How about the Mule deer foundation? If enough Utah sportsman pushed for change it will happen!

THE LORD IS MY ROCK
COLORADO,USA
NRA LIFE MEMBER
HUNTING PASS IT ON
 
>Utah WILL be micro-managed for deer
>starting in 2009.
>
>The new deer management plan being
>drafted right now, that will
>be presented at the RAC's
>this fall, will have micro
>units, with different objectives for
>different units such as buck:doe
>ratios and overall herd numbers.

>
>I would love to see a
>provision mandating that if you
>get a point for deer
>you can NOT get
>a buck tag that year.
>A bonus point should be
>just that, a bonus for
>not getting a tag that
>year.
>

They've got my support on that! Especially burning your points if you get ANY buck tag!
 
i am not against changes at all but i think some people who complain all year long about not seeing big bucks well maybe they need to hunt harder. i killed a 28" buck last year in northern utah on very public ground.that being said sign me up for a petition. another factor is our elk heards have grown dramatically and that means fewer numbers of deer i would like to see micro units somewhat and better elk numbers on open bull areas hint northslope of the uintas
 
Oddly enough ? the UDWR has somehow managed to produce one of the finest trophy elk hunting areas in the world. Hmmm! How did they do that? LE tags my friends.

Why not do that with mule deer? Because they can't live without the revenue generated by a mind set in this state that says ?. Everyone over the age of 14 should be able to kill a deer. BS my friends ?.. If they want to generate revenue by encouraging young hunters, why don't they put a little effort and cash into upland game hunting? Until the DWR operates on a budget generated out of the general fund rather than depending on their own revenue, we as hunters are screwed!

Just My Humble Opinion!

RUS
 
RUS, so you are for virtually NO big game hunting for youth, is that right? I am guessing you didn't have that to deal with back in the 30's when you were a kid did you? The youth ARE the future, and if there is no future there isn't much of a present. Statewide LE elk and deer would be a sure fire way to lose recruitment of hunters. And, don't give me the upland game BS! That didn't cut it when we were kids, and it damn well will NOT cut with todays youth. Why would people even suggest we FORCE a minority viewpoint on the majority of hunters? The MAJORITY of hunters do NOT wnat statewide LE hunting for deer, nor is there a need to do so. The deer herd is growing, more deer means more bucks. The buck:doe ratios is at/above objectives in all five regions. Now we will be going to mocro-units, this should help prevent over-harvest in certain areas. Funny, those who want to really screw up deer hunting in Utah are the very ones claiming the DWR is ran by a "bunch of MORONS". Oh the irony.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
Really? If that was where I was coming from, wouldn't I be in favor of statewide LE deer hunting? Think about it.

Funny stuff right there.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
we can all rip on the dwr but you have to give them credit once and a while. there are still trophy deer being harvested in the state monster elk year in year out could it be better of course. i think they made a good step by cutting back doe permits drastically.i would like them to pay more attention to the any bull units and maybe go to a little more divided hunt units from 5 to 10 maybe. not 70 units
 
I know that elk and deer compete for forage. But look again at colorado, there is more elk in Colorado then in any other state, and there is more deer in colorado then any other state and they still kill more deer then any other state and they also kill more B&C bucks then any other state. Yes there is a BIG differance in Utah and Colorado range. But they have gone out and done what everyone says cant be and thats have healthy deer and elk herds in large numbers!!!!

And yes you can kill a nice buck in Utah today but I know people that hunt Hard and still dont get a fair chance at a nice buck. somtimes you luck into one. Dont say that some people need to hunt harder. If they dont hunt harder then they get what is comming to them. I am one of thise people that just wants to hunt a little harder then the other guy.. I dont go out and kill myself, But I do get out there and try and GET-R-DONE!!!!



UThunting
Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah
 
RE: Why Utah should look closer at Colorado deer Management

Based on what PRO says it sounds like smaller units is happening soon. I hope it does what people want it to. I read a book called "Mule Deer Conservation: Issues and Management Strategies" that went through the documented efforts of multiple states to reduce buck harvest in order to increase buck to doe ratios. Different states had tried shorter seasons, earlier seasons, weapons restrictions, etc. Some of these methods resulted in temporary or marginal increases, but based on their results, the only surefire way to bring buck to doe ratios up, was limiting/cutting tags. In UT, if we keep tag numbers the same (at 97,000) and buck to doe ratio objectives the same (at 15-20 per 100), I just don't have a lot of faith that smaller units will accomplish much. I want to be a believer, and I hope I am wrong and that by making smaller hunting units we start producing lots of big bucks and growing more deer. I am excited/anxious to see what the mule deer committee comes up with.
 
>I know that elk and deer
>compete for forage. But look
>again at colorado, there is
>more elk in Colorado then
>in any other state, and
>there is more deer in
>colorado then any other state
>and they still kill more
>deer then any other state
>and they also kill more
>B&C bucks then any other
>state. Yes there is a
>BIG differance in Utah and
>Colorado range. But they have
>gone out and done what
>everyone says cant be and
>thats have healthy deer and
>elk herds in large numbers!!!!
>
>
>And yes you can kill a
>nice buck in Utah today
>but I know people that
>hunt Hard and still dont
>get a fair chance at
>a nice buck. somtimes you
>luck into one. Dont say
>that some people need to
>hunt harder. If they dont
>hunt harder then they get
>what is comming to them.
>I am one of thise
>people that just wants to
>hunt a little harder then
>the other guy.. I dont
>go out and kill myself,
>But I do get out
>there and try and GET-R-DONE!!!!
>
>
>
>
>UThunting
>Clynt L Citte
>Willard Utah

you said it there is a big differance between utah and colorados range.and they are at the top of the list for b&c bucks but they are also at the bottom for bull elk.i will say some people need to hunt harder i am not calling you or anyone on mm out but i see it year in year out lazy hunters that's fine though more elk and deer for me.and if you hunt hard and still do not harvest an animal well that is the name of the game if you were guaranteed an animal of your choice every year than it would not be as fun and challenging. sometimes one will fall in your lap some times you got to work harder.good luck on your hunts this year clynt
 
I used to be against "micro managed" units. I have changed
my mind. Colorado has made me a believer.

I am all for the changes.
 
Pro/ anyone
Do you know if they are going to have data collection in the new plan. As I have said before the smaller units are a good idia however, with out accurate data will it just be managed like now only with cosmetic changes. There are many states that do it now and do it well. Like Missouri etc. It is all done by phone or on the computer. Very simple. I have hunted there the last 4 years and I only wish we had that kind of data to work with.

Rock 5150
 
There is some data, though not nearly enough IMO. The DWR feels they have a good grasp on the numbers, that remains to be seen. There is talk of managing some micro units for higher buck:doe ratios than the current 15:100 that all five regions fall under now. This will allow, if implemented, for more mature bucks to be in the mix.

I myself am cautiously optimistic micro managing will work, but ONLY if over all deer numbers are increased. Otherwise I see little long term benefits. And, this micro managing plan may very well hurt in recruiting/retaining hunters, due to the decrease in ability to hunt with family in 'tradtional' areas. For every give there IS a take.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
This is only going to work if you throw all the LE units in as well and break them up into smaller units, to spread hunters around like colorado, they need to get rid of LE units and make them all part of the deer hunt, but of course some units will take longer to get a tag, if not we are going to have the same thing but smaller areas to hunt, and Like Pro stated decrease the ability to hunt with family in traditional areas.
 
Quote by: Desertpointbrian

you said it there is a big differance between utah and colorados range.and they are at the top of the list for b&c bucks but they are also at the bottom for bull elk.

Colorado does not manage for bull elk EXCEPT in a handful of units and even then it is only decent comapred to the Western states that do manage elk.

Colorado treats their elk herd as a cash cow with the OTC tags they manage for numbers because the OTC bring in revenue $$$ from lots of Non resident hunters.

Colorado could grow big elk too if they were to manage for it obviously the forage and wintering areas must be some what good for both species if the population of deer and elk keep expanding and the two species compete for food.

Utah grows some Monster ELK I wish Colorado would manage more units for trophy elk, Just as you Utah guys want Utah to manage for better deer.

Colorado's 2007 POST HUNT STATEWIDE ESTIMATE FOR DEER AND ELK

2007 elk Total Statewide Estimate 291,960

2007 deer Total Statewide Estimate 538,770



THE LORD IS MY ROCK
COLORADO,USA
NRA LIFE MEMBER
HUNTING PASS IT ON
 
desertpointbrian

I agree but Colorado has Big numbers of elk that is what I was pointing at.. If calorado did want to manage there elk herds like utah then I am sure in 5 to 10 year they would be killing 400 class bulls every year also...

Thanks

Clynt L Citte
Willard Utah
 
i vote for putting all areas into the mix. if you draw any tag it takes your points end of story. our limited entry tags are going to start taking 20 yrs to draw if we dont start something new. we need to get rid of the point creep. IMHO!
 
I think that could be a start. The more small units i think would be better. I also think that they should make some units 3 or 4 point or better it would give the young bucks with good genes time to grow and breed, But the typical utah road hunting utahin would rather shoot the little 2 point then hunt hard for the " big one" or go home with a unfilled tag.

Utah could bring back the big buck like Colorado if the guy in the big jacked up truck , the horn hunter and all the hunting stikers in the back window wouldnt shoot the first little buck they see.
 

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