Utah deer plan discussed on radio

fishon

Very Active Member
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Tuesday night the 5th of August, Utah's deer managment and ideas will be discussed for 2 hours between 7-9 pm MST.
You can listen on AM 1320 in Salt Lake, Provo and Ogden or anywhere in the world on www.thefansports.com.

Phone numbers will be given out on air to discuss this and for your comments and suggestions.

You can also email me your comments or suggestions at [email protected]

Thanks

Tony Abbott
801-885-1274
 
Will you be playing your Polaris ATV radio ad as essential gear during the show?

I love that one.
 
NO, but I will be giving out your fried chicken recipe that you have graced us with for decades. Would you mind giving out free cole slaw and mashed potatoe coupons?

Tony
 
Thanks for the heads-up Tony.

ktc--there ar full page adds for Quads in the Sportsman Voice....whats the difference?

Robb
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-08 AT 09:25AM (MST)[p]Nope, no full page ads in the Voice. Tony's ad is my favorite though, even better than a full page ad somewhere.

2 differences.......
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-08 AT 11:50AM (MST)[p]Hey Tony,

Is there any possibility that tonight's show could become a podcast?
I personally believe they all should be a podcast, but tonight especially.

I really think its time for http://www.thefansports.com/ to give your show your own section. I mean, they don't even mention your show in their line up. You're not even on the roster. I don't get it!

I really enjoy your show!

Thanks!
 
PD,

I hope you have a sense of humor today? Tony never has one?;-)

Tony,

I thought about your post about cole slaw and mashed spuds all day. I finally got it! Whew! ktc, kfc, ktc, kfc! Now I get it! Ha ha ha ha! Dude you are funny! I hope your radio show has the fun and humor you posted up on this thread! I am still laughing! Ha ha ha ha ha! Mashed patatoes and gravy...ha ha ha!

Maybe I will call up and join the fun? You will let me through won't you Costello? Ha ha ha! Get it? Costello? Abbott, Costello, Abbott, Costello? Ha ha ha ha! Damn we could be a witty team, hunting and total gut ripping humor!?;-)

Tony, you are a good man.....
 
I am working on a web page and pod cast. radio has been a hobby over the years and never really a job. It appears as though it might become more of a job.

I will have something on the KFAN web site soon and also pod cast ability.

I do record my shows.

Please listen tonight as it should be good.

Also 2-$25 Sportsman Warehouse gift cards will be given away tonight and every show night the rest of the year.

Tony
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-08 AT 07:54PM (MST)[p]like you just said on the show tony i hunt the northern region rifle every year and i always am passing on small bucks but also every year see some real nice big bucks last year killing a 28 inch buck public land
 
Sorry Tony.

I gave you 40 minutes. Your discussions are as slanted as that survey. Also, when you talk surveys and stats you are not educated so how can you make fun of a comment regarding them?

You are hand feeding your co-host in a biased way.

I know you care about wildlife and I appreciate your efforts. We just disagree, although parts of your solution is valid and hopefully some of your thoughts come to pass.

With love,
ktc;-)
 
I like most of what Tony had to say on the radio but how would we get this plan final and activated and passed SFW???????
 
Thanks for mentioning me buddy!;-)

Good luck with your efforts...seriously. I think you are trying and your intentions are good.

Ty
 
tony,

i think if you, don, the mule deer committee, and others can lay down your weapons and have some good, compromising dialogue, something could surely happen for the good.......for everyone. thanks!
 
what a great show tony!yeah i would definitely trade crawford for something else up north.but if we have smaller units crawford could still be its muzzy hunt and only have 15-30 tags this is why we need to manage on a smaller size but any tag should take your points except leftovers after the drawing.this would take care of the point creep problem.for some reason i was nervous to be on the air hope i didnt sound too flustered.thanx again for the great show.
 
on the comment of having to get a proposal past SFW you shouldnt have to but if you could get them on board it would definitely help .i agree that we should not have both premium species in the same units so if they ever do get opened up we should still have them on a draw for a few years but with more tags and 50% of them going to youths and seniors. on a side note here iwould like to tell you guys something that my 12 yr old daughter said "geese dad we sure do see some good animals scouting but when all the other hunters get here it sure does seem harder.dad do you think the DWR scents all our tags so the deer know we are here".man that was priceless for me just thought id share it with you guys
 
Tony,

I have had some time to look over your ideas and listen to your show and try to digest it all. I like what you've come up with better than SFW?s ideas?it is far less complicated. I don't believe that the state?s deer herds are as poorly managed as some seem to think. We have shown some pretty consistent growth after getting through the drought conditions that plagued us for so long. I have seen exceptional progress in the areas I hunt. I also believe we have to get the notion out of our head that we should be seeing a dozen 4 points a day during the hunt...it's a hunt after all. I think perhaps we have become a little jaded by the elk we see. After taking some time to think and gather my thoughts here they are:

1. I agree?every effort should be made to avoid cutting tags. If it must be done then it must be done, but only as a last resort.

2. As much as I dislike the idea of micromanaging the state from the perspective that it may hurt our current hunting tradition I believe that the advantages of doing so are worth the risk. The state is currently divided into 30 management units (more with subunits). It would not be a stretch to use these for hunting purposes as well. While I recognize that this is a hunter management tool and not a deer management tool I think it has merit (consider that almost all other western states do this). Simply put, the state can control who hunts when and where more easily and definitively this way.

489b66952fdb3a98.jpg

Unit number & names
1 = Box Elder
2a = Cache, North Cache
2b = Cache, South Cache
3 = Ogden
4 = Morgan Rich
5 = East Canyon
6 = Chalk Creek
7 = Kamas
8a = North Slope, Summit
8b = North Slope, West Daggett
8c = North Slope, Three Corners
9a = South Slope, Yellowstone
9b = South Slope, Vernal
9c = South Slope, Diamond Mountain
9d = South Slope, Bonanza
10a = Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek
10b = Book Cliffs, Little Creek
10c = Book Cliffs, South
11a = Nine Mile, Anthro
11b = Nine Mile, Range Creek
12 = San Rafael
13a = La Sal, La Sal Mountains
13b = La Sal, Dolores Triangle
14a = San Juan, Abajo Mountains
14b = San Juan, Elk Ridge
15 = Henry Mountains 16a = Central Mountains, Nebo
16b, 16c = Central Mountains, Manti
17a-1 = Wasatch Mountains, Salt Lake
17a-2 = Wasatch Mountains, Heber
17a-3 = Wasatch Mountains, Timpanogos
17a-4 = Wasatch Mountains, Diamond Fork
17b, 17c = Wasatch Mtns, Currant Creek-Avintaquin
18a = Oquirrh-Stansbury, North
18b = Oquirrh-Stansbury, South
19a = West Desert, Deep Creeks
19b = West Desert, Vernon
19c = West Desert, North Tintic
20 = Southwest Desert
21a = Fillmore, Oak Creek
21b = Fillmore, Pahvant
22 = Beaver
23 = Monroe
24 = Mt. Dutton
25a = Plateau, Fishlake
25b = Plateau, Thousand Lakes
25c = Plateau, Boulder
26 = Kaiparowits
27 = Paunsaugunt
28 = Panguitch Lake
29 = Zion
30 = Pine Valley

3. Eliminate general season vs. limited entry permits; all deer permits would be lumped together in one draw (including CWMU?s). The state is already entirely limited entry based on tag quotas. My reasons for this will become clearer later on. A side effect of this would be the elimination of statewide archery. As a compromise change the permit percentages from 65% rifle 20% archery 15% muzzleloader to 50% rifle, 30% archery, and 20% muzzleloader. FYI, I am a rifle hunter. Subunits could also be combined into larger units for archery and the Wasatch front should continue to be available to all archers.

4. Predator control as needed. If fawn recruitment for an area is below acceptable levels then more predator control would make sense. My comments will be strictly related to deer. Elk management is an entirely different issue and would need to be dealt with separately.

5. Manage the large majority of the subunits for buck to doe ratios of 15:100 while managing a handful of units (current premium and LE units) for higher ratios with better trophy opportunities in mind.

6. I will address this in response to #9.

7. I have no problem setting aside tags for youth (under 18).

8. Create multiple rifle seasons for deer. A few areas like the Book Cliffs, Little Creek unit might make sense for an early rifle season as well because most of the deer migrate out prior to the current deer season. Again this is a hunter management tool, but will help to spread hunters out a little more.

9. Move to 100% preference point system with no points awarded to individuals who draw a tag regardless of what choice they draw. This will require some explanation. My belief is this?we do not currently require trophy hunters to be trophy hunters or opportunist to be opportunists. I believe SFW tried to address this in their proposal. I can currently apply for both the Henries deer tag (arguably the best mule deer tag in the world) and any general season tag in the state. I am not required to make a difficult and perhaps painful decision about what kind of hunter I am. With this change either I am committed to trophy hunting or opportunity, but not both. Maybe I can find a compromise unit somewhere in the middle, but I can't have my cake and eat it too. I believe this change would lower the number of applicants for both general and LE hunts.

10. All tags would be priced the same since there would no longer be an LE draw and a general draw.

11. No comment?Elk.

12. This is a tough issue?I have no solution under the current system.

13. No comment?Elk.

14. Yes for mandatory reporting, but I would leave tooth data as a random requirement due to cost.

15. I would make it a $5 habitat stamp with all proceeds directed toward habitat improvement for mule deer. The state could organize some coyote shoots and perhaps even make a little money in the process.

Just some thoughts.
 
Good post Dahlmer. Well thought out. I agree with 90% of your thoughts.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
looks a like california, i'd say do it, how we remember paying $50 to hunt the entire state!

i like the plan, while we weren't picked this year, we're coming up anyways...
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-07-08 AT 08:02PM (MST)[p]I like your approach too with a major exception....pure preference points.

The *pure* preference point system in CO is disasterous in most peoples' minds--demand was much stronger for the premium units and many folks got caught in a catch 22 situation. Wait another 10+ years or "overspend" their 10+ points on a 5 or 6 point hunt?

They had to resort to letting folks spend down some of their points a couple years back--not exactly what folks signed up for.

Most folks like to think they have a chance at drawing a hunt they put in for. I include myself in this catagory. Something like it currently is where 50% of the tags go to the applicants with the most points and the other 50% is spread out amongst those who didn't draw one of the first 50%.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-07-08 AT 09:32PM (MST)[p]Dahlmer,

Those are some good, well-thought out, ideas. Please pass them to someone (everyone) who matters!

edit; I like having just "deer units". We do not need A and B, Premium and non-premium, LE and general, low priced, mid-priced, and high priced, just have deer tags! Unit 21 in Colorado costs the same as 43.

I would also like to see the BDR at 20 rather than 15. I think this would make the current general areas better, thus spreading out hunters. With a BDR at 20 a guy could hunt a general unit and have a chance at a top end deer and more meat bucks as well.
 
Jeff

Good to hear from you. Hope all is well in the Valley to the north. As you can tell it is late or early depending which way you look at it. This is my opinion.

2. Micro managing I am behind 100%. How many and where the boundries are is all we need to figure out.

3.I see know reason to elimate archery opportunity at all. The success is minimal at best and it is truly the way we can give out more opportunity. I think under your system we could have unlimited archery tags and not effect the deer herds. Plus I believe we still need a few trophy areas.

5.I don't know what the magic number of BTD is, I am not even sure that is the right managment plan to use. If we have 50 bucks per 100 does but only have 150 deer the we are in a lot of trouble. This is why predator managment is so crucial. See 15 below.

8. This is fine as long as any area with significant tags was not hunted during the rut.

9. Never can I agree with a preferance point system. It segregates Trophy hunters and opportunity hunters. It also tells a new hunter that you need to apply for x amount of years before you even have a chance to hunt. Even though making a hunter choose which hunt (le or General)would increase some odds, it would still greatly hurt the odds of drawing for new hunters and that is the worst thing we could do. Just because someone is older and put in longer it shouldn't mean they are guarenteed a tag before a new hunter. Preference points are as evil as it gets. Remember if we don't get people hooked early then we don't get them hooked at all. Preference points discourage all those that don't have the most.

10. I think tags should be priced based on what people are getting. Like I said earlier, all the seats at the Jazz game are not the same price and I don't believe all tags should be either. If I buy a double whopper I pay more then if I buy a single whopper. Get more pay more.

11. This issue cannot be ignored. We cannot managage deer the right way with out managing the elk too. The are connected and compete. Elk displace deer, this is a proven fact. Any good deer unit has little to no elk. I do not believe they can co-exist and be healty.

15. We put millions on the ground for habitat every year. We spend very little on coyote control. If we are feeding what deer we have left to the coyotes, lions,bears and wolves then who cares how much habitat we have. Our deer herds were at their best when ranchers killed every lion,coyote,bear and wolf they saw. Predation is the one thing that we can completly control no mater the weather, the habitat, the hunters or anything else.
1,000,000 in predator control is worth $5,000,000 in habitat. I can take you to 100 places in Utah with great habitat and no deer. Yes habitat is important but we need deer to eat the habitat and predators eat plenty of deer.

I think there are alot of great ideas in yours and others plans. We just need to get the dwr to put it all together.

Tony
 
I also agree with trying to manage for a 20 bucks per 100 doe ratio. Where did the the 15 to 100 ever come from anyway?

At the very least, we should manage for somewhere between 15-20 bucks per 100 does. If you start to see more than 20, increase tags a little. If you fall at or below 15 reduce tags. But the ultimate goal should be to get closer to 20.

The area I hunt is supposed to be close to 20 bucks per 100 does and you see enough bucks to during the hunt to make it fun and with a little work you can find a nice buck or 2.

oakbrush
 

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