I Got A Big Buck!!!!

Founder

Founder Since 1999
Messages
11,468
Wow, what an adventure I had this past week. I went from being almost killed to taking a dandy buck.

This was the first year that my son (Devan) accompanied me on a backcountry mule deer hunt. He's 11 years old and next year will be old enough to hunt, so I really wanted to get a buck. In early summer, I had decided to set my standards low as to increase the odds of taking a buck while my son was tagging along.
BUT, with each scouting trip, I realized more and more that it just wasn't in me to kill a lesser deer. With each scouting trip, I found better bucks. On my 4th trip, after backpacking in 6 miles, I rounded a ridge and spotted this bad boy on the opposite slope. I only got to look at him for a few minutes before he disappeared. I knew he was the best I had seen....by far. So, that's where we would be hunting.

The day before the opener, me, my dad (Bud), my son (Devan), and buddy (James), loaded our 4 horses from Wolfley Horse Rentals and began up the mountain. Only a mile into our pack trip, an outfitter with a packstring of horses passed us. One of our horses decided she wanted to climb the mountain with their pack string and got loose from James. I volunteered to run ahead try to catch our pack horse. After running 500 yards up the trail, I caught up to the pack string. As I tried to walk around a horse the outfitter was training, it kicked me....I think in the head....because my head hurt a lot!
Laughing now...But NOT then. (Note the cuts on my face in the pictures...it hurt)

I was out cold for 5-10 minutes. I can only imagine how scared my dad and son were when they finally caught up and saw me bloody and out cold.....

After about an hour of dad and James explaining to me over and over what had happened, we continued up the mountain 5 more miles to where I wanted to camp. (I probably should have gone to the hospital...just in case...but)

The next morning was opening morning. Devan and I took off headed for the knob just above where I hoped the big buck would be when the sun came up. Unfortunately, we were 10 minutes late, arriving 10 minutes after light. As we approached the knob there were two guys moving around quickly, setting up to shoot at something below. I was bummed that they had beat us there, but was hoping they were just shooting at a little buck and that I would turn up the big one at a later time.

Anyway, I told my son, "They're going to shoot" and we just stood there behind the dad and son about 10 feet. I still couldn't see what the boy was shooting at. He shot once, then again. Curiousity got the best of me and I took two steps forward and peaked over the edge and saw a big buck bounding down the hill as the boys third shot rang out.
After seeing that it was a big buck, instinct took over and I hit the dirt, setup the bipod. As I was doing this, the boy shot his 4th and final round and began reloading and his dad began shooting (as well as another guy 80 yards to our right).
After the dad shot two rounds, the buck disappeared into a deep ravine. I really didn't think it would reappear until it was way out of rifle range.

The buck seemed to be gone for a good 10 seconds before appearing again on the other side of the ravine. When he reappeared he ran another 30 yards to the top of a small ridge and stopped. He was at what I guessed was 400-425 yards. There were no other shots after he came out of the ravine, so I assumed everyone had lost track of him.
Anyway, I waited for the buck to stop and when he did I shot. The buck dropped like a rock, and I yelled out, "there's, he's down!"

I watched the buck for about 10 seconds as he kicked for just a couple seconds then laid still. I thought all was over, and turned to the dad and boy next to me to basically apologize for shooting the buck. But, if I hadn't, that deer would have gotten away. I'm sure of it. I felt really bad that the boy had missed...he really should have been the one who killed the deer.

When I looked back to relocate the buck, he was gone. After 2 minutes of glassing, I spotted him bedded down the hill about 80 yards. He was obviously very sick. I took my time and shot again....I believe I hit him again.
When he jumped up another guy shot, then I shot again (that time for sure missing). The buck made it 30 yards to a stand of pines and laid down again. I waited for him to come out of the pines for several minutes, and when he didn't, I decided he must be dead.

After all that, I turned to my son and said, "I think we got the big buck!" and down the mountain we began.

As we made our way down the mountain, ANOTHER guy also was sneaking down the hill. He had seen the buck go into the pines and was sneaking in, then he shot at the buck twice.

Devan and I arrived at the deer and that guy said it still had its head up so he finished it off. I thanked him for finishing the deer for me.

Then, ANOTHER guy shows up at the deer. It was the brother of the guy who finished off the buck. He explained that he thought he had also hit the buck...and probably did. After I showed him where the buck had first gone down after my shot, he agreed that he had shot it after it was already wounded. We found plenty of blood in the spot where it had first gone down and my hit was such that the buck probably wasn't going to go far.
Thanks to them for finishing the buck off. I don't think the buck would have made it far, but you never really know.

When all was said and done, I figured that there were atleast 5 hunters who were trying to kill this buck. I shouldn't have been the one to kill it, that young kid should have. But, he and his dad missed. After they shot 6 rounds, I couldn't help letting one loose myself. Heck, I was there for that deer too!!

I still feel bad for the kid. The two other guys who were hunting for the buck and who had also shot at it, were also a bit bummed. They had arrived 3 days before the hunt opened and saw the buck. They also "really" wanted to get him.

So, there's my hunting story. Hunting is much funner when there's not 4 other guys on the same hill you're on 7-1/2 miles from the nearest road. It's also more fun when you don't get kicked in the head by a horse the day before the opener. I'm glad my son was there. I wish it would have turned out better (you know, less hunters and less kicks in the head), but sometimes you get what you get.......just deal with it.
We got the big buck and that was pretty darn cool.
He's a little over 30 inches wide, has 8 points on one side and 7 on the other.

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Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
All in all, those guys sound pretty cool. I can imagine a million scenarios where that situation takes a turn for the worse.

Great buck. I love that classic 6 point frame. You should mount him with all the ragged velvet. I makes him look tough.

Glad the horse injury wasn't more serious.
 
Congrats Brian, Thank goodness you weren't seriously hurt. Good thing he kicked ya in the head other wise he might have hurt ya??? Ha!. Are you going to mount him with the velvet?
 
LOL kingfish!!!

I think I will keep the velvet just as it is. I don't want to change what it is, you know? That's the way the buck was.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Sweet buck Brian. You kind of have a knack for those big deer.

I agree, good thing you got hit in the head and not somewhere it could have hurt you! Ha! :) Seriously, those horse wrecks can be bad. Glad you were not hurt real bad.

Why did the guide not stop so you could grab the horse?
 
Great buck. I am glad everything turned out well- especially with that many cooks in the kitchen.
 
Brian - congrats on a great buck. Glad you were not hurt any worse than you were.

Pretty amazing story. Who would have thought so many guys would have ben on the same buck so far in from the road. Just amazing really, amazing.


Mark
 
Hopefully some old guy with a bunch of big bucks already on his wall doesn't come along and shoot a big buck out from under your son next year.
 
great story, awesome to share with your dad and boy. and oh yeah that buck is bad azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! nice.
AQ.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-08 AT 05:48PM (MST)[p]Founder,
That's one heck of a story and a super buck. After the kick in the head, you deserved the deer.
Congrats!

Geez Jim, did you read where the kid and father missed 6 times and lost track of it. Plus the deer was over 400 yards when Founder shot. If he hadn't of killed it, then one of the other guys would have. Lighten up.
 
Brian,
Having witnessed several horse wrecks in the past, I know how scary they can be. Good to see you came out of it alright. That buck is a bruiser. Glad you were able to share the hunt with your boy and your dad. It's an awesome experience hunting with family like that.
 
Great Buck Brian!
Congrats and hope that kick in the head doesnt leave a scar...you aint handsome enough to pull that off! LOL

------------------------------------------------------
By the way,
I live in UT.
There are a lot of UTARDS that live here.
I have also seen quite a few WYOMORONS, NEVADUHNS, COLORADORKS, ID-IOTS and AIRHEADZONANS in my travels.
 
>Hopefully some old guy with a
>bunch of big bucks already
>on his wall doesn't come
>along and shoot a big
>buck out from under your
>son next year.


I have a feeling this comment is made in jest, and I hope so.

Most guys would have ran over the top of the kid and his dad to score their big buck without letting the kid take one shot, let alone four.

Kudos to Founder for a great buck! My guess is that kid won't miss next time.
 
Congrats on a great buck Brian. Lets hope your head doesn't swell up!!!!!! From the horse kick that is.. lol. Glad your okay.

jdh
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-08 AT 07:16PM (MST)[p]Hey great buck Brian! Awesome! You had every right to shoot that buck. While you do feel bad for that boy that boy had his shot or 6 of them. When I was 16 I was once shooting at a 25 inch (give or take) 4x5 and I shot twice and missed him and some guy heard my shots came up and nailed him dead and I ended up bagging a fork horn that was with that big boy, I wasn't happy but it was my fault. If that kid and his dad are smart they'll see it as a learning lesson.

1. Control your buck fever (although with a monster that big its not easy)

2. Practice shooting as much as you can before the hunt so if it does come down to the wire and other guys are shooting at the same big buck as you, you'll hit it first.

That's huntin the rifle season boys.

Those are hard lessons I learned the day I lost that 4x5 and I haven't had the same problem ever again.

I drew a West Desert Vernon rifle tag this year and I'm going to bag a buck that big or bigger so Brian we'll have to compare after its all said and done and whoever loses has to buy the other one a dinner of his choice and we can invite our buddies and swap huntin stories...sound good?
 
Very nice buck we didn't see one like him but we did find some decent ones,

Those trails are so steep and nasty, the swithbacks can cause some wreck did for us, but they wasn't as bad as yours.

I think we talked to the same outfitter up on the mountain his son and daughter killed a couple nice bucks and came by our camp.
We did see a gray wolf up there so that is bad new, we did hear and see some bulls in the rut.
 
Brian, I have proof read the entire story twice, and all the grammar appears to be in order! (inside joke lol). Anyways, congrats on another huge Muley, what is that like your eleventy first one? Someday I am gonna start hunting out of state so I can start catching up!!!
 
Brian,

Congrats on a great buck!!!

I can only imagine, when those other guys saw you walking up on your buck and saw your bloodied up face, they probably thought to themselves, this guy is a fighter and can take a licken.

Just let him alone with his deer and nobody else will get hurt.

So the kick to the head probaly helped everyone avert a major conflict. Blessings of the "trail Knock out" TKO.

CS

"Helping turn good tags, into great ones." - www.vipoptics.com
 
Great Buck !!! Nice shootin' , Looks like you had to go one on one with the buck ! Congrats'
 
Brian,
sweet buck........I want to know though how you always get a WYO tag, last year you had H and had too of burned up your points. Resident I guess. If you drew again as a non resident you really are a lucky guy, go straight to VEGAS !!
 
>Hopefully some old guy with a
>bunch of big bucks already
>on his wall doesn't come
>along and shoot a big
>buck out from under your
>son next year.

WOW Jim That's quite a stab! "shooting a buck out from under
him" It's too bad, but it doesn't sound like anyone shot one
out from under a person or persons that couldn't hit him! Not
many hunters looking at a buck like that would give anybody first shot let alone six! How long do you think those other hunters had a claim on that deer, the entire season? It's too bad the kid or the dad didn't get the buck,but you have to admit they did get first shot several of them! I have the utmost respect for Brian for giving them soo many chances! By the way both father and son congradulated Brian for the good shot he made!
 
Nice job Brian - that is a heck of a buck. You are right, that kid should have shot that buck, but he didn't. Life is full of disappointments and he probably needs to learn to get over it! Seriously though, get your head checked out - you could have lingering effects from that concussion you got!


UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
Brian, Congratulations! After the thread that ran on this website a few weeks ago about who gets the deer when multiple people shoot it I was wondering how this would end. :) I personally feel that you mortally wounded the buck and for that reason it would have been yours, no question, but there were many on here that sounded like the person who actually killed it and tagged it first got the deer. I'm glad the right person ended up with it! Thanks for sharing your story with us!
--JadgBob
 
Whether it was buck fever or lack of practice on the kids part, next year he'd better address whatever made him miss that buck. I missed a big buck when I was 18 in California in X-12. I had buck fever BAAAAAD! I look back on it and I have no recollection of where the cross hairs were when I JERKED that trigger. All I remember was looking through my scope after the shot and seeing 4 smaller bucks heading over the ridge. I thought maybe I'd got him but when I ran up the hill where he was standing when I shot.....NOTHING! No dead deer....no blood! I still look back on that hunt and I keep that with me always when I have an animal in my sights. The kid that missed that buck that Brian shot will probably remember that just as I remember my miss. He'll get over it.....sometime!!

Steve
 
JadgBob
Ya, I knew the story would get a few people fired up. I knew that some might think it's wrong for me to have shot, others might have thought the deer should belong to the guy who ran down ahead of me and finished the wounded buck off at 20 yards (he didn't though).

It looks like a few posts have been deleted. I haven't seen any of them but one. Myself and the Sanford twins were the only ones who went down the mountain after the buck was dead. I actually brought up the thread JadgBob is talking about with the Sanfords. I asked them, "who do you think should get the buck?"
Darrell was actually the one who put the final bullet in the deer at 20 yards as it laid there. After we searched for blood from the deer prior to me knocking it down, David agreed that he must have hit the deer after I had knocked it down.
David, Darrell, and I all agreed that in our hunting ethics book, that the first mortal wound should get the buck.

I know David was bummed out about having hit the buck after I had. I'm sure the other guys who missed the buck were also bummed out. If I had missed, I would have been too.

So, everyone can have their opinion, that's mine. I think if a guy hits a buck and after looking at the blood and everything else taken into consideration, it appears the deer would have died soon, then that is who gets the buck.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Its refreshing to hear a story like this. Usually, there would be arguing and everyone claiming the buck.

It sounds like it was settled correctly. What a great buck!
 
very nice monster muley for sure and a neat story..the little one do grow fast!
however your not on trial for a crime so I won't ask about hearing the other side of the story..
lots of nice buck and bulls taken so far this year...
again darn nice muley!
rm
 
Brian,
Congrates, that buck is a toad and I'll bet your son was really jazzed.
OMB


There's room for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed taters and gravy.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-08 AT 07:49AM (MST)[p]Trying again.

THE KID that everyone is refering to DID NOT HAVE A GUN AND DID NOT SHOOT AT THE DEER. There is a reason the deer stayed in the bottom of the ravine for what seemed like a while. The deer was already hit twice and not by FOUNDER yet.
Not puting anyone on trial here. This whole situation was handled wrong. All of the justifications in the world do not make it right. That is what his whole story is and his response later in the post.
FOUNDER is acting like this was his ridge and his personal deer and that no one else should have been there. Once again I guarantee if the roles were reversed ( which in this case I know would never happen because these guys and his kid dont roll like that) and FOUNDER was the one who hit the buck first (wounded it) and someone else would have finished off the buck with the most LETHAL shot, which according to everyone on here determines who gets the buck! Things would have gone down the same just in a different order. FOUNDER would have got the buck by the same lousy justification of a mathmatical equation. This time it would have been he hit it first and therefore the buck is his.
I know this will get nuked, probablly by the same guy who openly admitted to chasing off a bull so the bull couldn't be shot. But if you are not a registered member of the FOUNDER fan club I guess that is what happens.
My whole point is, this did not go down like it has been told.
 
Great buck and story. I gotta tell you though, if I have to work double overtime to put some chips away in order to pay a trespass fee, I'll do it everytime. That damn deer was shot at by 5 different people in a few seconds. We call that dove huntin down here! Public land hunting is something else. Whoever puts a bullet (draws blood) in him first is the owner in my opinion. Also, not too many take a direct kick to head by a horse and live to talk about it, at least in a legible way.

T264
 
>LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-08
>AT 07:49?AM (MST)

>
>Trying again.
>
>THE KID that everyone is refering
>to DID NOT HAVE A
>GUN AND DID NOT SHOOT
>AT THE DEER. There
>is a reason the deer
>stayed in the bottom of
>the ravine for what seemed
>like a while. The
>deer was already hit twice
>and not by FOUNDER yet.
>
>Not puting anyone on trial here.
> This whole situation was
>handled wrong. All of
>the justifications in the world
>do not make it right.
> That is what his
>whole story is and his
>response later in the post.
>
>FOUNDER is acting like this was
>his ridge and his personal
>deer and that no one
>else should have been there.
> Once again I guarantee
>if the roles were reversed
>( which in this case
>I know would never happen
>because these guys and his
>kid dont roll like that)
>and FOUNDER was the one
>who hit the buck first
>(wounded it) and someone else
>would have finished off the
>buck with the most LETHAL
>shot, which according to everyone
>on here determines who gets
>the buck! Things would
>have gone down the same
>just in a different order.
> FOUNDER would have got
>the buck by the same
>lousy justification of a mathmatical
>equation. This time it
>would have been he hit
>it first and therefore the
>buck is his.
>I know this will get nuked,
>probablly by the same guy
>who openly admitted to chasing
>off a bull so the
>bull couldn't be shot.
>But if you are not
>a registered member of the
>FOUNDER fan club I guess
>that is what happens.
>My whole point is, this did
>not go down like it
>has been told.

Then tell us how it really went down!?!?!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-08
>AT 07:49?AM (MST)

>
>Trying again.
>
>THE KID that everyone is refering
>to DID NOT HAVE A
>GUN AND DID NOT SHOOT
>AT THE DEER. There
>is a reason the deer
>stayed in the bottom of
>the ravine for what seemed
>like a while. The
>deer was already hit twice
>and not by FOUNDER yet.
>
>Not puting anyone on trial here.
> This whole situation was
>handled wrong. All of
>the justifications in the world
>do not make it right.
> That is what his
>whole story is and his
>response later in the post.
>
>FOUNDER is acting like this was
>his ridge and his personal
>deer and that no one
>else should have been there.
> Once again I guarantee
>if the roles were reversed
>( which in this case
>I know would never happen
>because these guys and his
>kid dont roll like that)
>and FOUNDER was the one
>who hit the buck first
>(wounded it) and someone else
>would have finished off the
>buck with the most LETHAL
>shot, which according to everyone
>on here determines who gets
>the buck! Things would
>have gone down the same
>just in a different order.
> FOUNDER would have got
>the buck by the same
>lousy justification of a mathmatical
>equation. This time it
>would have been he hit
>it first and therefore the
>buck is his.
>I know this will get nuked,
>probablly by the same guy
>who openly admitted to chasing
>off a bull so the
>bull couldn't be shot.
>But if you are not
>a registered member of the
>FOUNDER fan club I guess
>that is what happens.
>My whole point is, this did
>not go down like it
>has been told.


Brian

I am responding directly to your email because I can see if anything derogatory towards you is posted on your site it is immediately black listed and taken off.

I am appalled at your blatant fabrication of what took place in WY. I am even more disgusted that you hunt for a living and own a website that promotes sportsmanship and the like. It is apparent to me you have manufactured a story in order to increase the marketability and traffic to your website. As far as censorship it looks as if you don't allow it. All very poor business practices.

To clarify your fictitious story- I am 36 years old my son is 11 and the other guy shooting is 38 (not my dad) For everyone reading this I am the guy sitting 15 feet from Brian on the hill that he is referring to as ?the son?

What is ironic is that I too had my eleven year old with me, and yes I want him to have great experiences hunting just like I did growing up as I am sure you are doing the same with your son. You unfortunately provided me with a perfect teaching moment of what not to do on the hill. While you were still shooting and I was walking away in disgust, I told my son he should absolutely never do what you did no matter how big the buck. That is sportsmanship rule #1. I have hunted a considerable amount and I still can't believe you sat down fifteen feet from me and started shooting. You didn't wait for us to do anything you sat down 15 feet from me and extend your bi-pod out in order to shoot. I shot once hitting the deer and my friend shot twice before you shot immediately after that. I for one only shot three times, not six as you tell in your story,(my gun jammed) and my friend shot four times.
I was so ticked off that someone would plop down that close on the hill I couldn't have hit a 6000 pound elephant. I am glad my son was with me, I could feel myself really loosing my cool over your lack of judgment. Excuses! I am sure that is what you are thinking. I don't even care about the deer; I go for the experience, being with family, friends, and the outdoors, so if you're thinking I am jealous, don't, I have higher standards than to let a deer dilute my character and my family name.
I wouldn't have given this experience another thought until I read this story on your site (first and last time to get on your site). I am sure you never expected the guy that you stepped over to shoot would have ever read your story ? lucky for me my little brother is a devote viewer of your site and recognized you the second day of the hunt as the hunter who broke all the rules to get his.
You are using this story as a tool to build your brand and in doing so are falsify information to your patrons. You are blatantly creating a narrative in order to position yourself as the consummate sportsman and I for one won't stand for it. So now the question is how far do I take this? Your customers need to know the truth; unfortunately I am extremely busy and have no intention of taking this any further as long as you clarify your story to tell what really happened.
I look forward to reading your revised version.

Nate
 
Wow what a great story. Sounds like your hunt was a real kick in the pants, oops I mean head.

Good to see that your boy could catch a glimps of what the family hunting use to be like here in Utah. I remember way to many hunts like that and some of them would break out into fights over hows buck it really was. Glad to see that you guys could solve it so peacefully.


Jeff
 
Wow...I don't know if some of the most recent posts will survive or not, so we all might not get to read them.

Kind of a shame, a nice buck but doesn't sound like it was all that fun up on the hill!
 
Nate,

First of all, I'm glad it wasn't a young kid who missed the buck 4 times.

I guess I apologize for not being exactly correct. It sounds like what you say I got wrong was your age and that you and the other guy shot 7 times before I did....???? Sorry!

I do not believe you hit that deer before I knocked him down. If you had, you should have walked down there with the Sanford twins and I. We spent 4 hours talking about it, walking up to where I knocked it down looking for blood, everything. Heck, both you and your buddy told me good shot after I leveled the buck. We found no evidence that the deer was shot before I shot it.

Anyway, like I said, that surely wasn't the way I wanted to take that buck. Way too many people for me, but when that buck got out to 400+ yards and was still healthy, I decided to kill it.

I'm sorry that you and your buddy couldn't have just killed it before I even peak over that ridge. But, I was hunting just like you guys. I let you have the first 6-7 shots.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-08 AT 09:54AM (MST)[p]Doesn't sound like my dream hunt.
It might have been a better lesson for your son to let that deer walk.
That is something I will never do, let alone in front of my son.
just a thought
 
When hunting public ground instances like this definitely happen and remembering exactly what happened is often cloudy and from different perspectives the views can easily be different.

I was on top of a hill in Wyoming once and put a decent 26" buck to bed from about a mile away. I got in on the buck above where he bedded and was waiting him out to shoot him before dark. During the wait I passed on 6 other bucks that came out to feed, including a heavy 24" 4X4. That evening a hunter came up out of the bottom, jumped up and shot and wounded the bigger buck, but didn't see it run away, it looked like a rear hind quarter hit as it ran away through the trees, not offering myself a clear shot. The hunter kept going and another buck popped up and he shot and hit it in the gut and it dissapeared into the woods. He kept moving up the hill where the two bucks he wounded went towards and another buck jumped up and he drilled it right in the neck. At that point I was totally steamed, not for this guy ruining my hunt, but for shooting 3 bucks in less than 5 minutes. I confronted him on my way down the mountain and he seriously thought he was shooting at the same buck each time, he might still think the same today. I went after the bigger wounded buck, no blood trail, and jumped him up but couldn't get a shot just before dark. This was my last day to hunt, so I couldn't go back in after them.

The reason I am hashing this out is there are two sides to every story and in this case maybe there are 7 sides and the two in question could both be what each other thought happened.

Brian could have thought the kid was shooting as he was right there with his father, they shot a few times, once hitting the deer in the gut. Brian sees the deer pop up on the hillside and no one is shooting at him or has located the deer and he drops the buck. The group on top of the hill leaves as has been stated and all the other shooters from the bottom gather at the to see who hit the buck first. In this instance the person who may have hit the buck first did not go to the deer because he was disgusted with so many people shooting at it. It is possible that both stories are what each person thought happened. Of course both stories might not be totally true either.
 
I goat rodeo for sure. I must say i might just be on the guys side that shot first. I dont think i would ever sit down 15 feet from another guy and just start shooting at the same buck unless he gave me the go ahead. I know it is not against the law but some space might be nice. It would be up to the hunter to make a choice like that but in my view the wrong choice was made. I kinda thought that when i read founders story without even hearing the other side. Its over now but that hunting on public ground for U.
 
Geez Uncle Eddie fall in the well eyes go crossed, get kicked by a mule cant remember how you ended up with the deer.. Having been there, knowing the deer was there as well(didn't think he was 30), I voluntarily rode away to opposite side of the face to spot for others in hunting party. First shot connected,(by our party) then a couple of shots drew nothing but cool air and mountain scenery(including shot from Brian), the reason Brian saying he didn't peek over the ridge for the first couple is because he knows the deer was hit, and yes he was sitting down bipod out ready to shoot before anyone shot. Also the reason it took the deer a while to get out of the ravine is because it was hit. Theres no doubt in my mind that Brian hit the deer he shot it in the guts and knocked it down. yes the two gentlemen in the bottom did finish the deer off.. No doubt in my mind the shooting in all parties could have been better. The hunting etticet shown that morning was the shi*$. The way the story was told is worse. We hunt for the experience, and hope that we can find some big ole buck to amplify that experience. Congratulations on the buck Brian you didn't hit it first you didn't hit it last, you did however put your tag on it, and I guess that's all that matters.. HOWS THAT FOR MY FIRST POST BOYS, READ IT AND WEAP
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-08 AT 09:59AM (MST)[p]sarg7mm - That is a lie. I DID NOT sit down until after two shots were made. I stood make and actually told my son, "watch, these guys are going to shoot". You are lying. I also shot only 3 rounds total. My first went up the deer rear end and knocked him down. My second shot was while the deer laid down the hill 80 yards 2 minutes later and my third shot was when it jumped and ran that final 30 yards.

If you guys really thought you hit the deer before I leveled it, you should have meet the Sanfords and I at the deer. To now come on here 5 days later with your story is crazy. Where were you guys then??? I was told great shot by two guys and then they left? Now you're saying they got the deer??
I would have had no problem giving that deer up if someone really had hit it before I did. David (another guy who was there) thought he might have hit it before I did, but after walking up to where I knocked it down, he decided he must have hit it after I did. You guys should have been down there if you really thought you got the deer, not trying to claim it now.

Maybe I shouldn't have shot at all, but just like everyone else on that hill, I was there for that buck too. The earlier post here says that the one guy shot 3 times and his gun jammed and the other guy shot 4 times and ran out of bullets. THEY COULD SHOOT AGAIN! That's obviously one reason it was silent when that buck came out of the ravine.

I don't know what else to say. Maybe I should have just watched the deer run away, but I didn't, I leveled him. If someone felt they had already wounded the buck, they should have meet me and the Sanfords at the deer!!! ????????????
WHY WOULD YOU JUST LEAVE IF YOU HONESTLY THOUGH YOU HIT THE BUCK??? Why, why, why????
You show me you hit the buck first and it yours! I don't care that much. I have many big deer already. I surely wouldn't want a deer I didn't really get!!!

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
This whole thing sounds like a cluster #%$@ right from the beginning and not something I'd want any part of. Looks to me like a prime of example of what happens to people when they get so wrapped up in the need to produce that common sense goes right out the window. Honestly, Founder, tell us how you'd feel if the roles were reversed and that was you and your boy that were on the ridge first? I know if it were me, I'd be %#@$$%^ pissed if someone came along and did what you did! Hope your kid learns there's more to hunting than harvesting a "trophy" at any cost!....

I doubt this thread will make it through the afternoon, so nuke away!....
 
>Probably got 50# of Hamburger meat
>left.
>
>Brian

C'mon, Brian, you know it ain't about the meat. It's about shooting them in the @$$ and getting them on the ground so pictures can be taken of the horns an posted on the "net". That's what hunting is all about!.....
 
I would be so pizzed if someone came up to the area I was hunting and started firing away...especially miles from any roads. The guys where in the area first. Back out and go somewhere else. Come back another day or go find another deer.

Not sure any positive lessons were learned by all this...

To each his own...and rather surprised by this Founder....
 
Foreman4x4 my sediments exactly. Brian, it doesn't matter how many shots were fired, you were late getting to the deer. In my opinion, your edicate was terrible. You should have left or not shot at all. Only one guy said "nice shot". He was saying it to his buddy, whom he thought, shot that shot, not knowing it was you because you were so close. The reason our party walked away, was to avoid confrontation in front of the young boys. We don't want any confrontation now, but it but the burr under our saddles that you would fabricate the story, making it sound like you are a trophy mule deer hunter. Brain, it is a nice buck, most people would give their left arm for a deer like that. We do not want to claim the deer, because the experience is not one to remember when we see those horns.
 
No doubt it was a cluster #%$@!!!
If the roles were reversed and me and my buddy missed a deer 7 times and someone else would have shot it, I would be bummed out that we missed 7 times. I don't think I would blame someone else for killing it.
How many times should they get to shoot? They admitted one gun jammed, the other guy shot 4 rounds (gun was probably empty??)
All that before I knocked the deer down on my first shot.

If I were in their shoes and really thought I had hit it first, I would have walked down the mountain to the deer, just as I did. Where were they????

I can assure you, I don't feel any pressure to kill big deer. MonsterMuleys.com would be about the same whether I hunt deer or not. I don't make this site what it is, everyone else does. There's no pressure here to kill big deer. I like hunting big ones because it's a challenge. I don't do it to make money.

If these guys really thought they hit that deer, they wouldhave been down there.
Maybe I should have just stood back and watched the deer run away, but I didn't. I was there to hunt too and shot.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
These argument posts are ridiculous! It's obvious you guys claiming the deer now are just angry at yourselves for missing a giant buck! Anyone would be! But agreeing that there were many shots fired by yourselves and not being able to supply proof (blood) that you hit the deer is crazy! Why, if you thought you made a hit you didn't just say so at the time and ask founder how he felt? Sounds like you guys knew you missed and just left! Founder and the other fellows walked up the hill above where he said he'd knocked him down looking for any previous blood trail and none was found! How can you argue that you hit the deer? If the buck was 400 yds out and you hadn't been able to put him on the ground by then do you think you were going to hit him on the next shot? COME ON.... And another thing, you guys are blaming founder for shooting at the buck but you're not saying a thing about the 2 brothers that were shootin as well and they weren't far from the first shooters either! And they both DID hit the deer and agreed it was the founders buck! I KNOW I'D LIKE TO HAVE THE FIRST SEVEN SHOTS AT A BIG BUCK AND IF I COULDN'T DROP HIM I'D CONGRADULATE THE GUY THAT DID! YOU GUYS ARE ACTING LIKE LITTLE KIDS!
 
sarg7mm - What do you mean you don't want to claim the deer, that's exactly what you already did!
Confrontation???? Why, without even talking with me on the mountain, did you think there would be a confrontation? Heck, when I leveled that buck I didn't know if it were wounded or not. It didn't appear hurt, but I didn't know for sure. You probably could have turned to me and thanked me for finishing it off and I would have never even walked down there.

I went down there and meet David and he and I investigated to make sure it wasn't bleeding prior to me knocking it down. Where were you????

Maybe I should have let the buck go, and that judgement is left up to each of us individually. I didn't. After you guys missed what I thought was 6 times (you say 7), I hammer the deer. You should have killed it with one of the first 7 shots and we wouldn't be having this discussion and I would be on the mountain looking for another big buck.

I've killed many big deer and I can promise you I don't need to steal them from other people. You guys jammed and emptied your guns and couldn't bring the deer down, I did. Now you're on my site blaming me because you didn't get to reload and arc more lead at the buck.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
I guess this is what hunting has come to. Who shot first and who hit the buck first or killed it is irrelevant ( there will always be two sides to the story and I was not there). What bugs me is that someone would sit down next to someone else and start shooting. Even if the other people were just tree huggers enjoying the view no body has the right to just sit down and start firing away. If someone did that to me I don't think I could be as nice as those other peolpe were and walk away. Either the shooter would be wishing a horse had kicked him or I would. That is not right. And anyone who thinks it is should consider another sport. If it was not about killing another big buck than why not help them? You could have set up your rifle and had the kid shoot, or you could have help spot for them.
The way this turned out is not good and I hope nobody evey does this to me. I though this web site was about hunters helping other hunters.
 
It would be interesting to see the responses to this post if the hunter in question wasn?t Founder. For me, I never would have dared sit down next to someone and started shooting. That said, you never know how exactly you will react in a situation during the ?heat? of the moment. Or, in this case ?buck fever? moment. I would be upset if someone sat down 15ft from me and started shooting at a buck, regardless if I had already shot or not. Seriously, how many of you if you were sitting on a great spot first thing opening morning would welcome a total stranger to come sit down 15ft from you? I think Founder should have move down the hill to a spot further away, then taken the opportunity to shoot or not. That is my take on the situation. Frankly, I'm surprised that there wasn?t any confrontations at the end that could have been very dangerous.
 
reminds me of this time hunting coues south of Tucson, I must have shot that deer 8 times before I finally killed it. Talk about a bad ass coues that didnt want to give up. As you can imagine I only had a couple pounds of meat left(actually more then a couple but it seemed like a couple). Anyways, that was a fun hunt!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-08 AT 10:58AM (MST)[p]> These argument
>posts are ridiculous! It's obvious
>you guys claiming the deer
>now are just angry at
>yourselves for missing a giant
>buck! Anyone would be! But
>agreeing that there were many
>shots fired by yourselves and
>not being able to supply
>proof (blood) that you hit
>the deer is crazy! Why,
>if you thought you made
>a hit you didn't just
>say so at the time
>and ask founder how he
>felt? Sounds like you guys
>knew you missed and just
>left! Founder and the other
>fellows walked up the hill
>above where he said he'd
>knocked him down looking for
>any previous blood trail and
>none was found! How can
>you argue that you hit
>the deer? If the buck
>was 400 yds out and
>you hadn't been able to
>put him on the ground
>by then do you think
>you were going to hit
>him on the next shot?
>COME ON.... And another thing,
>you guys are blaming founder
>for shooting at the buck
>but you're not saying a
>thing about the 2 brothers
>that were shootin as well
>and they weren't far from
>the first shooters either! And
>they both DID hit the
>deer and agreed it was
>the founders buck! I KNOW
>I'D LIKE TO HAVE THE
>FIRST SEVEN SHOTS AT A
>BIG BUCK AND IF I
>COULDN'T DROP HIM I'D CONGRADULATE
>THE GUY THAT DID!
>YOU GUYS ARE ACTING LIKE
>LITTLE KIDS!

What a shame that "hunting" is coming to this! When I hunt public ground if I see somebody has made it to the spot I intended to hunt before I did I'll find some place else to go. Furthermore, if people are shooting at a deer then there needs to be some sort of "grace period" to allow them to finish what they have started, you dont sit down next to them and start torching rounds.

Brian, I like you, we've spent quite a bit of time talking and I have enjoyed every bit of it but in this instance I wholeheartedly disagree with the way this went down. You sat down 15 feet from these guys? Thats 5 yards, my tv is further away from the couch than that. Put yourself in their shoes, it would not be cool to have a dude come sit in your lap and start shooting.

What a way to kick off a couple hunting careers, if I were a kid I'm not sure I would want to go throught that cluster #@$% again.

Drum


dan-henderson_wanderlei-silva.gif
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-08 AT 11:15AM (MST)[p]>reminds me of this time hunting
>coues south of Tucson, I
>must have shot that deer
>8 times before I finally
>killed it. Talk about
>a bad ass coues that
>didnt want to give up.
> As you can imagine
>I only had a couple
>pounds of meat left(actually more
>then a couple but it
>seemed like a couple).
>Anyways, that was a fun
>hunt!

Do you ever get more than a few pounds from those dinky little dog deer??? :)
 
haha, ya your right tuffbucker, I think his meat lasted one night of grilling, still good, except for the 8 bullets...

Did someone say nude pictures?
 
Wow!

Being from Montana and hunting there as well as Wyoming, I think there is some common curtosy that goes a long way. I have problems hunting the same drainage as another hunter let alone plopping down next him and letting the lead fly! From some of the stories I have heard on here about how hunting in other states is maybe that is how it goes. In my opinion if you see someone in an area you want to hunt you move on, they beat you there fair and square. I would be embarrassed to take a buck that way and then plaster it all over the net.

I had a similar situation happen to me one year, I had been watching a big bull and was in position at first light and had a marginal shot opportunity as he fed in sparse timber. I hurried up the hill to get a better angle when a shot rang out. There was another guy that had come in a different way as the mortally wounded bull ran my way I put a bullet in him and ended it. As the hunter approached I congratualted him and helped him field dress and pack the bull off of the mountain.
That common curtosy can go a long way.
 
Regardless of who hit the buck when, if you shoot a buck 15 ft from, what at the time you thought was a kid who beat you to the spot, you have some serious issues.

And yes it was all about the horns for you. Don't give me that "I have several large deer" crap. I guy with that mentality tells the kid "hey take 5 steps this way and take a shot from here."

If you would have done that to me or my kid there would be a problem.

This mentality, hopefully, hasn't already infected your son.
 
IMHO, I am with Brian on this. If the first hunters would have done the job, Brian would have never had a chance to shoot. If the first hunters had actually hit the deer they should have gone down to first blood and Brian would have bowed out. I have seen this kind of double or tripple shooters before. And just like this time someone walks away with the animal. ALL SHOOTERS should have got togeather and discussed what happened and who is going to get the deer like grown men. If anyone chooses not to go to the table to talk either did not think they did the job or was convinced someone else got the job done. This is really sad that this happened, But it is getting more common with all of the people hunting. We need to be perpared for this kind of thing. It was a cluster, but all of them I have been involved in have been the same way. S**T happens. If the first guys had hit the deer they should have gone down there, Brian saw a seemingly healthy deer other shooters not fireing deer fixing to get away. BOOM end of story. Then third shooters get involved, And once animal is down the final two parties get togeather and back tracked the animal to see what happnend. Brian is found with the inital killing shot. End of story! NOW is when the first shooters should have plead there case to what happened. As they did not they had convinced them selves that they did not get the job done IMHO.
 
I'm glad to see that some people aren't afraid to voice their opinion, even if its not a popular one among the faithful followers here at MM. Whats even more encouraging is Brian has the balls to stand up and take his lumps in the court of public opinion without deleteing the entire thread. He could obviously do it and hasn't, atleast to this point. It would really turn alot of people off if Brian was OK to post the pics and take the pats on the back but when things became uncomfortable, run and hide.

I could never imagine plopping down yards from someone and start shooting without at the VERY LEAST, asking if it was OK. But I could see how some could be tempted. Unfortunately there is no "do-over" on this one.

Reading all accounts of what happened, who in the hell knows exactly how it all transpired in the heat of the moment. I just know it was a big mistake in my opinion to sit down by someone who is already firing at a buck they spotted and to start shooting.

Thanks for the opportunity to offer my two cents. If nothing else it carthartic for me.
 
Regardless of who did or didn't do their job. I would never hunt with someone who would behave that way in that situation.

I would never want to see a buck on my wall and remember that scenario.

I would rather let that buck walk away than to shoot it 15 ft..15 FT!!!...from the kid who just missed it, and beat you to the spot.

That is as low as it comes in my book.
 
That's just the way those Utards hunt, they don't care who or what is in the way. they are shooting regardless of the situation. If it's got a big rack on it's head or just a rack at all those Utards will be shooting. I can't believe someone would walk up next to someone who is shooting at a deer and start shooting at it. HUNTERS FROM UTAH HAVE NO ETHICS!!!
 
I will say I have hunted the country more than most, but stopped when I found guys in every basin. I backed out everytime, unhappy I was beat to the spot. I see it as unacceptable to sit down in that situation. I also think the first shooters cannot complain now, they had their chance on the mountain. I trust if they had given it a try they would have prevailed. Stuff Happens
 
The next time Founder calls you for a meag muley hunt, Please feel free to turn it down. (grin)

And I will also bet you have not killed or let that many bucks walk either, Looks good on paper but here in the real world. Save it for someone whom believes that crap.
 
founder do us a favor and lock this thread!!
hope it does not leave a sour taste in any ones mouth!!
rm
 
I'm in agreement with buckspy on this one and think the post should stand. It is tough to judge if you are not there or know all the facts... The question is one of ethics and when lots of time is spent preseason scouting a certain deer, it might start to change your mindset when he jumps up and multiple persons are shooting at the buck at first light...
 
Ya, I don't mind if people disagree with what I did. I knew that it would be a hot issue. I never really thought about it before it happened.

Maybe I should have just watched as the deer ran off as these guys were reloading and trying to get a jam cleared????? But I didn't. The grace period was 10 seconds. They weren't shooting....So I shot it.
From the second the shooting began to now, I wished they would have just killed the deer with the first shot. But they didn't. Like I said, I thought it was a young kid and his dad who missed 6 times. I do feel better now knowing it was two adults. I also feel VERY, VERY, VERY confident that the buck would have survived if I hadn't shot it, so I do not feel that I stole it from anyone. Those guys were done when I shot that deer.

The buck certainly doesn't go down as one of my finest trophies. Nor, is the hunt one that ranks up there as one of the funnest. With 5 camps within 1200 yards of that deer and more than 15 guys watching the knob it lived on, it was a joke regardless who killed the deer. Of course, I didn't know there were that many people in there until after all the excitment occured.

I'll take it like a man. If you think I was a prick, so be it. It's done and I'll live with it.

I should have went hunting for this deer, there were probably only 10 guys trying to get this one!
48d3eff050dc26b9.jpg


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Good or bad, if Founder hadn't of shot, the deer would have been lost. Even if the first set of hunters gut shot it, they didn't see the deer come out of the drainage. If they couldn't finish it with 7 shots at close range, what makes anyone think they could at 400+ yards. Rather the deer got killed by another hunter than have it wander off gut shot and die the slow death. If they believed they did hit the deer, why didn't they say so? Coming here after the fact and crying over spilled milk is B.S.!


And my opinion has nothing to do with being a Founder's fan club member. I don't know, nor have I every talked with the man.
 
What? Here in the real world we shoot deer 15 Ft from what he thought was a kid and his dad and it's ok???

Thank God I don't live in the "real world".
 
If you can put a deer down with 7 (or 6) shots you need to go home a practice your shooting. A major rule of hunting ethics is being able to kill quickly and cleanly.
If I am lucky enough to get a deer like that in my scope and I don't close the deal then I have only myself to blame.
 
>What a shame that "hunting" is
>coming to this! When
> bI hunt public ground if
>I see somebody has made
>it to the spot I
>intended to huntefore I
>did I'll find some place
>else to go. Furthermore,
>if people are shooting at
>a deer then there needs
>to be some sort of
>"grace period" to allow them
>to finish what they have
>started, you dont sit down
>next to them and start
>torching rounds.
>
>Brian, I like you, we've spent
>quite a bit of time
>talking and I have enjoyed
>every bit of it but
>in this instance I wholeheartedly
>disagree with the way this
>went down. You sat
>down 15 feet from these
>guys? Thats 5 yards,
>my tv is further away
>from the couch than that.
> Put yourself in their
>shoes, it would not be
>cool to have a dude
>come sit in your lap
>and start shooting.
>
>What a way to kick off
>a couple hunting careers, if
>I were a kid I'm
>not sure I would want
>to go throught that cluster
>#@$% again.
>
>Drum



Drum,

I don't know you. I have seen your posts and read your stories over the past few years. Your perspective may be tick sheltered due to the fact that your guiding private ranches in mexico. Yes, I know you have hunted Colorado as a resident for the past couple years, however, some areas of this world have ALOT of hunting pressure. Its not "what hunting has come to", its the way its always been in many states especially Utah.

Having grown up in Utah, (yes, I say that lucratively) I know that im going to see a million people during the deer hunt. That is just the way it is. I have also hunted alot of states surounding Utah and there is a noticable difference with "pressure". Wyoming has changed. If you haven't hunted there, you have no idea what I am talking about. I think you can ask BuckSpy and he knows exactly what I am saying. It used to be that when you packed in 6 miles, you got away from people. Now days, your packing into people.

That being said, I really get irritaded with the upity, snide, short comments that are made by you, and others in the threads on this board. EVERYTHING changes when its you in that situation. I'm sure you've never made a choice during the hunting season when you looked back on it and said "that sucked, if I could go back, I would do things differently". Maybe even on a new mexico hunt your were on? Hunting hasn't changed. The pressure of people have. I think it says alot of Brians character to write this story they way he did the first time.

The comment, "What a shame that "hunting" is coming to this!" and "When I hunt public ground if>I see somebody has made it to the spot I intended to hunt before I did I'll find some place
else to go." are what I am refering to when I type this. The guy spent a ton of time during the summer and found that buck. Why would he hunt somewhere else? Its not like Brian saw them on top of the mountain and said "I'm sitting right next to them" and started hiking. He got there, saw them as they were shooting, saw the big buck was missed, and after 7 shots, killed the buck. GD man, are you kidding me?
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-08 AT 03:40PM (MST)[p]Oops - see below post #97.


UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
No doubt this is a controversial subject. I thought I would weigh in my thoughts. While it is true the 1st group of hunters should have killed that buck, I think that I would have walked away. I have been beaten to "my" spot before and that is what I do. I always pre plan a few areas to be in case I run across other hunters. For me personally, I would hate to mess up a hunt for someone else. I would hope others would allow me to continue my hunt if I am their "1st" as well. I realize as a bowhunter that it is a lot less crowded than the rifle hunt, but no animal is worth a cluster like this appears to have created. Each of us have our own set of "ethics" of what is right and wrong. That is okay. For me, I will not hunt the same animal as someone else at the same time. Back out and try again later.

In Bow Ed we teach that the hunter who draws 1st lethal blood is the hunter who tags the animal. Sounds like Brian was the hunter who drew 1st lethal blood. Tough end to what could of been a great experience. More than anything, it allows us to think about what we each would do if confronted with this scenario.
 
I just gotta say this once:

I was gonna post on this thread first yesterday. I was all in position and everything. Then, too my surprise, BANG, Browtine beat me too it.

I didn't say anything yesterday because I decided I would be the bigger man and let it go, so I did. But dang it, I just know Browtine is thinking he was first, but really it was me. So, I am coming on here now, to have my final say once and for all (at least until I decide to edit this post) that I was first in posting on this thread.

Seriously, if you got a problem with ethics talk about it on the mountain. As far as two people shooting at the same buck, where do you draw the line? If Brian (who I don't know) just walks away and one of the other dudes at the bottom mortally wounds that deer what is the difference? Do they have to wait also? What if it runs right over the ridge and someone who has no idea kills it - should they have waited? I don't have the answers, but most of you don't either. IMHO!
 
I have actually been on both sides of this situation. And to tell you the truth it is not too fun either way, though it is more fun on Founder's side.

Situation #1 - Opening morning in a 3pt or better area - we are sitting in plain sight, near our vehicles waiting for it to get light and are watching several deer - one is a nice 4 pt. I watch the clock and know that the official sunrise happened 2 minutes ago - it is now legal light. I am 16 and it is my first year to hunt and want to put the hammer down, but my dad says to wait, he wants to make sure the deer is a 4 pt. and he also wants it to be a little lighter. There are also what appears to be two smaller 3 points with them but dad wanted to make sure they were legal too and wanted to wait for more light to verify. I tell him I can take this 4 pt. I am not nervous, my crosshairs are right on his vitals and I know my gun is right on at this distance. He says no however so I listen to my dad and wait. All of a sudden a big white jacked-up Chevy drives down the road in front of us, between us and the deer, they wave to us and we think they are going to just keep on driving by. But, then they slam on the brakes and start blasting away. They missed the 4 point, scared him away and ended up getting one of the 3 points. The deer go over the ridge and we hear more shots from folks over there, and we assume they got the 4 pt. We were pretty disgusted so we just drove to another area and continued hunting. Yes I was upset, but I learned some important lessons.

#1 - I don't own the mountain. They had every much right as I did to be there I did. What could I have done to stop them? I thought ethics would but I was wrong and to tell you the truth, it was wrong of me to expect them to keep on driving. They didn't know what we knew and we couldn't really hold that against them.

#2 - If you snooze on public land open season OTC rifle hunts you lose! Yeah it is a heck of a thing for a first time hunter to learn but it came in handy a few years later on a much bigger buck when I didn't hesitate. I could have taken that buck at least 5 times before they got there but I waited and they capitalized on my hesitation. I had to settle for a much smaller deer (that besides from the final "put it out of its misery blow" I only hit in the foot but that is a different story in and of itself - save it for another day) that year becuase I waited. Shame on me for waiting I guess. After many years of retrospect, yes, waiting was the right thing to do. But I certainly could have went ahead and dropped the hammer. In fact, I did squeeze the trigger once only to be stopped by the well working safety! Yep - I guess my gun "jammed" (i.e. operator error in my case) too! Either way, I had no more claim to the buck than they did. End of story.

Situation #2 - I was 15 at the time and was sitting in the cab of my dad's '78 Ford Explorer trying to stay warm and overlooking a hollow on the General Season Any Bull Elk Rifle hunt. There were a few other vehicles around us and all was pretty quiet. All of a sudden from behind us we hear shots and then to our right here comes 3 cows and a raghorn 4 pt. They are running hell bent for leather and not slowing down. We notice someone is missing them big time as we can see snow flying about 15 feet behind the bull. Well, they are headed for a stand of quakies and then down into a deep canyon. They run right in fron of us so dad opens up and sure enough on his second shot the bull goes down with a broken back. He is about 350 yards from us so we march over to him, finish him off with a shot to the neck and clean him out. On our way back to town we stop at a cattle guard and a truck pulls up to us and the guy asks us if he could at least see "his elk". My dad says "Sure, but what do you mean 'your elk'?" "Well", the guy replies "I emptied my gun on him twice (the last four of which had to have gone right over our heads from at least 600-800 yards away)and must have hit him at least 3 times!" To which I reply, "Well you sure didn't slow him down any for us!" (Which earned me a very stern "shut the hell up boy" glare from my dad). Being much more cool-headed. My dad says, "Hmm, well I know for a fact that I broke his back and ruined half of his front shoulder so I thought I had the obligation to tag him." The guy just muttered something under his breath and then drove off. Well, we skinned the elk later that day and found only two bullet holes, one high in the shoulder that broke his back, and one in the neck that finished him off.

So here's what I learned:

#1 - That guy didn't own the mountain. We had just as much right as he and all the other hunters did to be sitting where we were. It just so happened that the bull ran closest to us. Yeah he shot first, but he didn't hit first nor last, so guess what, his story ends there. Which brings me to lesson #2.

#2 - Either make your shots count or don't take stupid shots from too far away and then expect to have any claim on your quarry. This guy was shooting a lot, but he missed EVERY time, even though he thought otherwise. I guess in his excitement he failed to recognize those huge plumes of snow flying up behind the bull as his misses. He had his chance but blew it with poor shooting. He had plenty of chances to adjust but couldn't or didn't and probably ended up pushing the bull right to us. Dad took a careful running 350 yard shot and cleaned his clock. His loss, our gain. In fact the guy was shooting from so far away we couldn't see him and didn't know for sure if he was shooting at this bull or not.

So after reading all the accounts of what happened to Founder and the other gentleman, it appears that everyone got excited and made some mistakes. Now, everyone has a different account and remembers everything differently so the full truth lies somewhere between all of the stories. However, here is what I have been able to surmise from it all:

#1 - Founder did breach an ethical boundary when he began shooting in such close proximity to the first hunters. However as my lesson #1 proves, neither one of them own the mountain and both have equal rights to be there. He did nothing illegal and really all that can be questioned is his judgement call to start shooting. Which if you have hunted enough General Season OTC hunts, you will recognize as a very common reaction to the situation. Maybe not the best, and to you maybe not forgiveable but common. It looks like if he hadn't got the buck, there were plenty of others who would have. Welcome to the OTC jungle.

#2 - The first guys obviously had plenty of opportunities to capitalize but didn't or couldn't and lost their opportunity. Sorry fellas, regardless of whether or not Founder set up and started shooting so closely - you missed and then you didn't follow up to make sure you hadn't hit the buck. Did you go look for blood or begin tracking him? (You stated you walked away)Were you completely sure the buck Founder shot at was the exact same one you were cracking at? (That might be blatantly obvious from your point of view), but in putting the pieces of this puzzle back together it appears that you did lose sight of the buck for a while.)

#3 - By all accounts it does appear that the fatal shot on the buck did in fact come from Founder's rifle - which was even acknowledged by the first guys. So he followed up, and tagged the buck. He also uncontentiously worked it out with the other hunters who hit the buck as to who had the honor to do so. It doesn't appear that there were even any cross words spoken in this exchange and there was not an escalation of violence. They worked out a civil compromise and all parties walked away to continue on with their own individual efforts.

So in a perfect world here is what everyone should have done.

#1 - Founder should have moved farther away from the other hunters.

#2 - The other hunters should have shot better.

#3 - After seeing them miss and then finding the buck, since he was so close, Founder probably should have told them he had found the buck and then let them again attempt to finish it off.

#4 - The guys who finally put the buck down, who had also hit it, should have clarified with Founder if he wanted them to do so before hand. They could have easily sat on the wounded buck and waited.

That being said in hindsight, I admit that I really don't know anything about the situation becuase I wasn't there. But from what I have read that is what I surmise, all were a little wrong in some ways, but no one appeas to have broken any laws.



UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!
 
THIS IS CRAZY People are taking sides on what should have
happened and all the faults that were made and of course I have my opinion about the truth! Extreme1 claims everything was Brian's fault, he claims the deer was hit twice before Brian ever fired but he never boldly claims that he personally knocked the buck down nor his buddy! He can't or doesn't explain why there's NO blood trail after 2 hits but he claims he knows Brian shot it in the GUTS knocking him down at over 400 yds ( deer don't go down on a mere gut shot) He talks about poor sportsmanship, then comes on here whining about what happened! He can say what ever he wants but his son was right there and watched him and his pal miss seven times and he in fact knows who knocked the deer down! (he congradulated Brian himself) I think that his hunting party knew the buck was there, the 2 hunters went up to get him, they got the shots they wanted but missed and were too embarassed to tell the rest of the party they just flat missed, so they said they hit the deer but somebody else stole it from them!
What difference does it make if the other hunter was 15 feet or a mile and a half from them, they had a great chance and missed it! There's absolutely NO DOUBT that neither Extreme1 or his partner would have never got the buck, he was still going, 1 gun was jammed the other apparently empty and NO blood trail, why is there an argrument?
And for all you guys to say "oh, I wouldn't have shot" that's crap to, it wasn't like Brian went up there and sat next to these guys and glassed for half an hour, he wasn't there 10 seconds before things began to happen! Remember, when everybody went up that hill it was still dark, Brian didn't know they or the other hunters were there and they didn't know he was there until that moment!
Let's remember 1 other thing as well, Extreme1 and his buddy were both shooting, if they are SO curtious how come the second shooter didn't just leave the buck to the first shooter? If the buck would have died before Brian shot it those 2 guys would be having this argument with each other! How come neither of those guys claim to be the 1 who hit the buck? Not just once but twice! Brian knows this was a bad experience and I'm sure he wishes he wasn't involved but he doesn't owe anybody an apology!
By the way Extreme1 it's disgusting to have someone come on a forum thread solely to try to damage a guys reputation after not even talking to the fellow at the time of the incident, Not suggesting that you made a hit or anything else! Tell us, did you hit the buck or did your buddy?

BUD
 
Muleyhunterfromhell,
Glad to hear you're not going to hunt there. That's one less I have to worry about drawing in front of me.
Thanks!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-08 AT 04:34PM (MST)[p]Good hell you're long winded, Roy. BTW, big brother, you would've kicked the guy's a@@ had he camped out 15 feet from you and started shooting.

Jenn (just playin' devil's advocate w/the big bro here...hee hee hee)
 
It's sad a great buck ended this way.

I have made mistakes trying to get to deer, once I cut off a hunter going to a water hole. I regretted it, until the bastard stole my tree stand. But we all make mistakes in the heat of the moment.

But, I would never sit down 15 feet from somebody and shoot at a deer. If they would've continued to miss, just let the deer live, and try to find it bedded down that evening. Your success would be much sweeter, that you got a buck that eluded so many.

If they would have wounded it, I don't believe finishing it off would be unethical.

Does this classify as illegal "party hunting"?
 

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