In desperate need of moral support!

cantclosethedeal

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217
Alright guys, time to swallow my prided and go to the pros. I can't figure out what I am doing wrong. Since I switched from Archery Elk (with Muley?s second) to a full time mule deer fanatic, I AM ON A 7 YEAR DRY!! No kidding, I have hunted mule deer VERY hard for seven years and I can't seem to close the deal. (Thus the name) (8 day backpack hunt in Colorado and 17 days on the Wasatch front this year!)
Here is the skinny. I am 40+, been bowhunting since 16yrs old, been backpack hunting for 5 of the last 7 yrs, I am in solid shape (3 marathons, 3 half marathons, non-stop hiking and backpacking during the dry spell) I hunt 10-15 days in the field per year minimum, I have hunted in at least 2 states for 5 of the last 7 years, (Utah, Arizona, New Mexico), I am a solid shooter, (I practice to 100yds every session and am deadly to 60 with broadheads but 50 is my moral max in the field) no worries about equipment, (Hoyt, Swarofski, winner choice, spot hog, bad lands, etc, etc).
The only negative I can find in my repertoire is that I hunt alone. (I am having difficulty finding hunting companions who are interested pushing the envelope)
No BS guys. What the *$*! am I doing wrong!!!! Pull no punches, call me a sissy, make comments about my mother, I DON?T CARE! This obsession is too important to me. EVERYONE I meet in the tough areas I hunt has booked SEVERAL deer except me! (alright, I met one guy last without a book buck, (Isaac from Badlands packs) but I have no doubt he will be in the book soon)
 
Thanks, but I doubt I would be any more successful with my 7mm. You know me, I am that guy you hunt with who hunts his A$$ off but never gets it done. I don't think is is the weapon, it has to be the hunter.

Keep the comments coming!!
 
Cantclosethedeal,
It's hard to say what the problem is without being in your shoes. The one thing I've learned from 35 years of spot and stalk hunting is its 95% glassing and 5% hunting. If you know for a fact you're hunting in productive areas, spend time behind quality glass. Being in great shape may have you moving to fast. Move slowly and expose yourself as little as possible. Pay attention to wind direction. Remember thermals move up in the morning and down in the evening. Since you didn't give us any details, not sure what else to add.
Good luck.
 
Are you passing on bucks that won't make the "book"? If you are you need to start dumping a few of these lesser deer. Get a couple of deer under your belt and your confidence will soar. Scout, Scout, Scout. Early season mule deer are usually in some sort of pattern. They never become easy, just easier!
J.T.
 
Thanks xitnet,
While I believe I am practicing the fundamentals you are preaching, good solid techniques and reminders are EXACTLY what I am looking for.
To be honest, I was beginning to believe I have been spending too much time glassing and not enough time up close and personal.
To answer your question, I am most certainly hunting in productive areas. In my near "grounds for divorse" scouting trips (two pre-hunt trips to Colorado and more days scouting than hunting in Utah)I have patterened 5 160 to 180 class bucks. While a 200" monster would be nice to see, I can't complain about the quality of the deer.
 
You NAILED it! I have been swinging for the fence for so long that my confidence is obviously shaken.
Although "passing" may be a relative term, I am certainly "working around" the smaller deer to get to the big boys.
I may be loosing my fundamentals in practice even though they are paramount in theory. A good dose of "success" may be just the cure.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-08 AT 00:19AM (MST)[p]This is a trap I fell into.

All I can suggest is "kill a deer" to set the bar.

Don't try to start at 170 or 180 or someone else's standard, just kill a nice deer and then try to improve on THAT deer.

I was also going to suggest glass more/hike less, that's always been my problem and well as the most common problem among hunters. I have a bad habit of being a go-getter, but hiking 20+ miles with a 50-60 lb pack on day 1 is a mistake. I've often been a victim of my own enthusiasm and ended my hunt before it even started.

Other than that, without actually hunting with you, I can't offer more advice.

Good Luck,
Don.

PS. It took me 11 years of trying to finally spot/stalk a black bear. Hang in there.
 
I too have been having the same problems.

I have passed up many smaller bucks in a quest for a big Muley. I have even drawn on a few smaller bucks just to know I could have taken them. I do my homework, glass a lot, pattern the deer and when I have been seeing one that makes my heart jump out of my chest then that's the one I go for.

I have made many good successful stalks but it's the shot that I blow. I cant seem to keep it together enough to stay calm no matter how much I talk to myself. My heart is racing and I have the shakes. The last shot I had was at 3o yards that was pre-ranged. I couldn't hold the pin on the spot in the pocket and I ended up shooting just under his chest.

I used to be the same way with Elk until I killed my first one. What has been mentioned here about getting a couple success kills on smaller bucks I believe is the ticket. I think that's some really good sound advice. I hope it will help in confidence and my target panic/buck fever. It sure can't hurt and would probably please my wife to bring something home to go along with the stories.

GBA
 
mule deer hunting is tougher than any time that I know of, the late 80s was probably the last time there were good deer in many areas in the west,2005 in colorado I saw good bucks, this year I saw about half as many and smaller,SW wyoming is down, Idaho is pounded,Nevada is on a long term down trend, most of Utah is a joke, there are more people hunting the backcountry than ever,I decided after this year, deer are not going to be that I spend much time on in the future, Elk are the animals for the future, mule deer were great in the past, good luck
 
Don,
I am beginning to hear a consistant theme. Close the deal and things with get better! You are also the second hunter who referenced "without acctually hunting with you". I may be stuck in a forest for the trees scenerio. I could be making painfully obvious mistakes that I don't recognize in the heat of the moment. Any suggestions on getting together for a day or two with a successful hunter? i.e. what type of request would I guy like you give up some valuable time for?
 
Thanks GBA. That is Rock Solid advice! It means a lot more coming from a guy who had the same issues I am having and OVERCAME THEM!!
Good luck on the January hunts in AZ.
 
Piper,
Everynight I crawl back to the truck or tent in the dark, I echo your sentiments. Maybe I should go back to Elk hunting where I have more success. But. . . . I CANT LET THIS BEAT ME!!
I am still seeing good deer and a few great deer. Albeit, the backcountry is shockingly crowded, the opprotunities are still there.
Thanks for the perspective.
 
cantclosethedeal,

I STILL havent killed a muley yet so this will be the year I try to take a smaller buck to get one under my belt. Thanks for the good luck,and same to you. I am going to give it a worl in December.

PS. I killed on good 8 point whitey in Michigan but that was out of a tree stand and I had lots of time. Being on the ground, locating a good buck and getting in on it is a whole different expirence! Even after my misses I get stoked, I am so hooked on archery muleys!!

GBA
 
cantclosethedeal,
I agree. Just shoot something and it will all change. Did for me. Sent PM.
nk
 
Not sure what your goal is. But the statistics for harvesting say a 180"+ buck with a bow are lousy, even in some of the best units. I would take the others advice and lower your goals/build upon success.
 
Hey,
It isn't that you can't close the deal because you haven't had the chance (sounds like).
What are your scouting practices? Before I take up my bow, it is almost a sure thing that I will at least get to waste an arrow because I have done the homework and know in a period of 3 to 4 days of hunting a spot Mr. Mulie will come by. I know when you back pack in you can't effectively scout an area because the effort to pack in and out everytime takes time etc. What ever you can do to increase your odds the better, the better the scouting and paterning of the deer almost makes it a gurantee you will get one.
 
CCTD, I feel your pain! I too am in a drought as of late even though I am hunting twice as hard. I have been evaluating what I am doing wrong but I cant find any obvious holes. Gear, technique, time etc. etc. all text book. As I came back beat down from another unsucessfull adventure, I tried to string a couple of common theads that could explain my failures. I found two possible answers:
1. Given I am hunting fairly hunted public ground, I beleive I have been too passive to be sucessful as of late. I do everything according to the book. Glass um up, watch the wind, plan the stalk, make sure to go slow etc. In the end though, by the time I get into range to close the deal some unknown variable always works its way into the mix. (Other hunters, coyotes, elk, cows.. you name it its busted my stalks!) I think now if I was more agressive, I may have had better results. I came to this realization this year while I was on a stalk, (doing everything right) I watched another hunter who had apparently seen the same bucks I was stalking march right down through the bowl taking into consideration NOTHING and he gets a 50 yard shot twice! I thought to myseld WTF?? Here I am ##### footing around trying to be super perfect and this idiot just marches right up on them for the shot. (I would have closed the deal though:) My point is while It is important to do it all right, sometimes you just have to push it to get the deal done. Better you blow your stalk than to have someone or something do it for you!
2. I noticed in your post about the "grounds for divorce" scouting trip. Been there done that. All I can say is sometimes we want it too much! The obsession becomes the obstacle. Not trying to get all weird but I have also noticed this to be a phenom that can happen to hunters. In my experiences, the more I want it and the more I scout, spend on gear, obsess etc. the less sucess I have had. Dont know why that is but as I look back over my hunts, the ones where I was (According to my wife) "out of control" were the least productive. Maybe its a cosmic, karma kind of deal but I know it can be real. I guess it's like trying too hard to hit the pitch, just relax and let it flow seems to work better for me than constant obsessing and thinking about it.

My advice..let it ride, clear the cobwebs out and start again. You obviously appear to have the skills, so dont get in your own way. Lowering the bar for sucess isnt a bad idea either.
All serious Muley hunters im sure have had this happen to some degree at some point!

Good Luck.
 
I can't speak from the shoes of a trophy hunter, but I know that when I am enjoying the hunt, I see far more animals: Including the occasional keeper buck.

I believe that when we stress about the hunt, it affects our ability to put our skills to use, affects our observational skills, hinders our focus... I find that when I am just in a groove, fitting in with the wilderness, more of a part of it than an intruder, that I often sense the animals before I ever see, hear, or smell them. If your worrying about arrowing that big buck, the worry is going to mess with you.
 
Muzzle,
I like your approach. On a "close call" in Colorado this year, I found myself paralized by indecision while a 170 class buck moved through my shooting lane before I could settle the pin. I think on some level, I have accepted failure. There are days where no matter what opprotunities present themselves, somewhere deep down I expect to fail. WOW, that was hard to admit!

Clear the cobwebs, let the hunt come to me!
MORE GREAT ADVICE! I should have posted this string in JULY!
 
Thanks for the input.
I find myself enjoying the process more than hunt the last few years. 3D shoots, getting in shape, scouting, tweaking the bow a little, etc.
I am optomisitic and energized when the hunt begins. Somewhere around day 10, my enthusiasm is dampened (but never replaced) by the stress of another long winter to reflect.
It is obvious you guys know EXACTLY what I am dealing with! Keep the comments coming!
 
Another thing to remember is it only takes 145 to make Pope and Young. No need to hold out for a 160. :)
 
Cantclosethedeal,
I started bowhunting 4 years ago. I am 26 now, I have had great success lately on three things I never really practiced until bowhunting.

1. Silence: I have a huge pair of Wool socks that I keep in my pack for the last 150 yards of stocking. I slip them over my Boots and tip toe the rest of the way.

2. Smell and Camo: Obviously watch the wind, but closing the distance to 40 yards requires complete scent free clothing, undergarmets, shoes etc.

3. Hunt time and Area: I decided I won't put in for an area unless I know of a honey hole or an area that doesn't get hunted much or I will hunt any area with a late rut season. This is key, at least for me. In the late rut (november december) The big bucks are not nearly as hard to find and are usually worried about other things allowing me to slip in for the kill.

I am sure you probably practice the silence and smell but I am telling you try hunting or scouting for that matter the late season archery Rut hunts. You will be shocked at what you see at least I was. It seems that one out of every 5 big groups of deer had a 180 inch buck controlling the herd.
 
Cant,
Self reflection is the number one trait of a sucessful person so I applaud you for looking at what you are doing wrong/more importantly right. There is no secret wizz bang idea that will automaticly make you start harvesting deer much less good deer. After every bowkill I look at what went right and see if I can duplicate it the next year. I don't mean situational things. Look for universal traits for you that made that stalk/ambush/scout successful. Catolog the situational things for individual areas in the back of your mind.

I will give you an example of what I mean- This year I was watching a 195 inch typical that I wanted to kill real bad. I watched him all summer in somewhat of a pattern. Two weeks before the opener I stopped seeing him. For a week and a half I moved up and down that drainage looking for him. I couldn't find him. I set down one night on the hill and racked my brain were he could be. Universal truth #1 for my area and the deer I hunt is that most of the big bucks inhabit a small home range 1 sq/mile or less. I had watched this deer go over a saddle a couple of times but had a hard time believing he would take up residence in the little draw that he went into. Well, long story short, I found him a day before the season living in that draw and he stayed there for the next 1 1/2 weeks. Trust what you know to work. He was there, I was just looking in the wrong spots.

Remeber your success as you start dumping deer. I sounds like you have years of experiences to make it happen. Good luck!
 
I will be hunting another week on the WF in Utah durring the rut. Unfortunately, so will everybody else. Nonetheless, I will put my hours in the field and see if I can use the camo invasion to my advantage.
Thanks for the pearls-o-wisdom.
 
As you may have guessed, it is more than 7 long winters to reflect. It is down right embarrasing. Although failure has become and old friend, he raids my fridge, drinks my beer, and hits on my wife. He is a pretty crappy friend and it is time to send him packin'.
 
3big,
Thanks for sharing your expertise. I have been cataloging what I do well and where things break down. After reviewing my notes from the past several years and there is a recurrent theme. I am getting stuck on what when wrong and not what went right. Your advice is well taken.
 
CCTD
I have hunted the wasatch front alot and can tell you don't get dicouraged. Its a hard hunt with alot of extra people. When I first started bow hunting I had my sights set high I wanted that huge buck of a liftime and after my first four years of not even seeing the big ones i came to the realization that I would have to mabey start small. I still have yet to find the buck of my dreams and have ate tag soup a couple of years I still get out and keep looking for that giant. If you ever need a partner on the front give me a shout and if i can get out we will go chase some critters.
Good Luck and Great Memories
 
Cantclosethedeal

It sounds like you need a good hunting partner, someone that can show you the ropes, someone that knows how to battle the crowds on the front, someone that knows how to get it done on those wiley old mule deer year after year after year ?in fact 6 years and counting.?

I just might know who that someone is, especially if you want to show that person how to kill an elk. He is in the same boat as you but on a different species.

Ill show you how to hunt those easy mule deer, if you show me how to hunt those marriage wrecking elk.

Here is a resume on a few of my Wasatch front bucks just follow the link all the way through. I posted a few pictures you might like

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID6/17357.html

Lets see your resume on elk.


Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
Sean,
Nice to hear from you. You are one of the guys I was referencing in my original post. I doubt you know it, but I was 40yds above you when you took your buck on opening morning. I guess I picked the wrong escape route. . . . . again! (I was set up on the one they had used every other time they got pushed) I think I still have a lot to learn about the pressure on the front.
You certainly know how to follow through. I would be happy to trade some inside scoop on the elk for a good old fashioned schooling on WF mulies! BTW, that buck in the snow is a HOG!
 
When I get back from New Jersey I will get it scored. I haven't actually scored it yet. I will do a guess the score right here on monster muleys I think this deer will surprise and catch a lot of guys off guard with their scoring ability.

Any way did I meet you on a scouting trip? I only meet one guy scouting this area. Maybe it was you? If it was you I am trying to get some more video of this buck. The only video I have is long distance video. A buddy of mine almost got the kill shot on video from across the canyon though.

Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
My wife and I were hanging a treestand in an escape route when we met. I believe I was alreay bitc^&% about my lack of success then!
I have been following MM for a year or so, but this string was my first post. I will keep the masses informed if thier good advice pays off.
Let me know if the photo's I sent are your buck.
 
Where did you send the photos?

It was you I talked too. I thought you were a pretty nice guy. I even mentioned you to a few of my friends. I thought I got along with you right off the bat. I wouldn't have a problem ever hunting with you.

There are a lot of guys that will give you the cold shoulder when they see you looking at their deer. There are more guys that will give you the cold shoulder when you kill the deer they were after. You didn't and I am not that way either I wish them the same good luck as I would like to have.

If you want I can hook you up with two other friends of mine that still have tags. We will be hunting sometime in the next few weeks. When I get home from New Jersey I will be looking every day for the big ones. I would like nothing more to see someone like you finally take one.



Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
Why hasn't anyone dropped the "g" or "p" words? "Guide" and "Private". Better summed up is the "$$$" word. People give people who hunt with Mossback a lot of crap but give them credit, they have dreams and goals and they are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Hire a guide and/or go private my friend.

All the money you are spending chasing around the Western US could be better spent on tresspass fees and guides.
 
SWbuckmaster, I'll give you credit for running a little smack. I can take it. I'll also tell you I don't use guides and tresspass fees to any appreciable degree in my hunting game plan. That being said, I seem to recall this guy saying he was open to ALL SUGGESTIONS.

The irony is that while you would not seem to espouse money, guides, and private land as parts of your game plan I think its safe to say you actually embrace all three of those things in your pursuit.
1. GUIDES: You yourself have mentored other hunters(in effect guiding them)and somewhere along the way I'd be willing to bet you had someone teach you a few things (guided again).
2. PRIVATE LAND: I will also bet you would not turn down an offer to bowhunt a primo private ranch if you were invited (I'll need an explanation about the difference between paying for access to private land and getting invited when it comes to your repudiation of that part of the argument).
3. MONEY: You use top quality equipment, spend a lot of time away from work in pursuit of your impressive trophies. All of that is money. (Yes I've seen the photos. You do kill some very nice bucks). Its all relative my friend.
 
Sorry Gnokes my sense of humor doesn't come across very well on the computer. You are correct I will not turn down an invite to private property.

I will also not hesitate to use a guide. I paid 2,000 for a guided cougar hunt last November. Ill pay a guide when I want to go hunt whitetail sometime. I am not against guides or their use in any way. They have their place.

I also do spend a lot of money on my equipment; it is my one and only hobby.

I thought you might have been trying to stir the pot with your last post. Cantclose is a genuine nice guy. I won't speak for him on his take on guides, or private property. Maybe he is open to your suggestion it wouldn't hurt.



Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
I hate to admit it, but I did buy my first landowner tag in Colorado this year. It felt a little like selling my soul, but I will probably do it again.
I doubt I will go private or hire a guide unless I draw something really amazing. Even then, this would be difficult. It's not the money (well kinda not the money), it's the principle! (Can't let it beat me!)
 

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