Utah CWMU's and the Public Hunter

270WinPre64 · Nov 10, 2008

Do public hunters have any recourse if lied to and treated badly by a CWMU operator? Or, do we just have to STFU and take it like a man? If I were a private hunter, I could just get my money back if the operator lied to me and treated me like fecal matter. As a public Joe though I don't know what if anything I can do.

This year was my first time hunting a CWMU and most likely my last. I think I would have been better off putting my points in a LE hunt at least then I know where I stand from the beginning.

South_slope · Nov 10, 2008

What is the rest of the story?

elkbudy · Nov 10, 2008

lets hear the rest of the story.

ICHABOD · Nov 10, 2008

Yeah, lets hear it....
------------------------------------------------------
"Yeah, I'll shoot him"

mahew04 · Nov 10, 2008

Which CWMU? I have heard horror stories, and I have heard great things about some of them..If your claim is legit I would report it to the dwr. I think they take it pretty seriously.

legacy · Nov 10, 2008

The DWR encourages hunters who have had bad experiences to report it immediately. They will take it seriously. I complained about a piss poor experience I had, and they gave me a permit for the following year. They also stripped this CWMU of its permits.

slcmuley · Nov 10, 2008

HOW MANY POINTS DID U BURN? WHICH UNIT? SORRY TO HEAR U HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE

troutsniffer · Nov 10, 2008

If you paid for a tag and got shafted, what makes you think they would willingly give you back your money? I know some CWMUs are operated fairly as the program is intended. I believe some are very dirty and abuse the program for money or to allow themselves, family, and friends to hunt for a very long season.
I have hunted on several now. I have been treated great on some, and abused on others. Do your research! The devil is in the details. I got a lot of good info from MMers. I'm sorry if you got screwed this year. I hope you didn't burn a lot of money or points. Good luck in the future.

Silentstalker · Nov 10, 2008

Report your experience to the DWR. They are interested in cleaning up that program of the bad ones and continuing with the great ones. What animal were you hunting? Sorry you had a bad experience.

270WinPre64 · Nov 11, 2008

First of all thanks for the responses.
OK I am going to take my complaints to the DWR and see what happens. I am not going to say what unit I was in because I might be the only one that had a bad experience there. So I will go through the official channels. I only had 3 bonus points that I used for this hunt. (still that's 3 years ;plus a waiting period year down the drain). Without trying to sling too much mud around this is what happened.

The operator was trying to juggle my hunt around the hunts of his private hunters. Fine I don't have a problem with that. However, he gave me some dates to pick from. I picked my dates and got my time off work/school and planned my hunt. Well about a month before my hunt he called and told me I had to change my dates because his private hunters were coming in later than first planned. So I had to reschedule all my time off work and rearrange around my school schedule. Then when I finally got to hunt all the private hunters were still on the property. Not only were there deer hunters everywhere. There were moose hunters and elk hunters all on this property at the same time. In fact I would wager that basically everyone who had a tag for this unit was there hunting this last weekend of the hunt. It felt like general season opener with all the orange on virtually every hill. You couldn't sit down and glass anything for a spot and stalk because everyone was all over the place and the deer were just running around and getting pushed off the property. On top of the fact that I didn't see a single deer over 22 inches.

Maybe I was expecting too much out a CWMU hunt but I darn sure wasn't expecting an opening day public land type hunt.

Deerlove · Nov 11, 2008

I doubt that they guarantee the amount of hunters on the property.

legacy · Nov 11, 2008

I don't know if they will do too much for you.

When I hunted, the operator told me he would call me IF he sees an antelope so I could drop everything I was doing and drive 2 hours to try to find it again to shot. I told him that that wasn't really going to work for me.

He finally let me hunt the property but told me "don't bother leaving the truck...just drive around until you find something." "And don't leave the main roads. We have clients here who have paid a lot of money not to see other hunters." It went on and on and was the biggest joke you could imagine. And it's not like there was a bunch of antelope running around either.

Part if it was my fault. I should have done more research and asked more questions. BUT, I was also told things that were false and never happended or were just flat out lies. Needless to say, this unit no longer has antelope tags and I was able to hunt again the following year. The crappy thing is I had to hunt on the same unit and deal with the same operator. That was a little uncomfortable. I ended up killing a very small goat and was very disappointed when it was all said and done.

The bright side was, my wife had a northeastern muzzleloader deer tag, so right after I harvested, we loaded up and went deer hunting for a coule of days and had a blast!

I still like the CWMU program, but am very cautious when choosing and know the questions to ask. I think that is key in having a decent hunt. References are a must.

slamdunk · Nov 11, 2008

270-
Check PM's.

projp · Nov 11, 2008

LAST EDITED ON Nov-11-08 AT 03:45PM (MST)[p]I also have had the range from exceptional to lousy hunts over the years. Between my kids and I we have hunted probably 8 times or so.
On the one really bad experience I contacted the operator before the DWR and when he saw I was serious about reporting him his whole tone changed. He was not a CWMU the next year.
The last hunt grouped all the public tags at the same time. At first I was ticked at being crowded, but what really happened is that we just all traded info. There were 2 elk, 2 deer, and one moose tags. We steered the others to the good deer we saw and they told us about a canyon where we shot our moose.

cabinfever · Nov 11, 2008

projp I sent you a PM

littlejoe · Nov 11, 2008

I have a friend that operates a CWMU and he encourages all hunters, happy or unhappy to report to the State so they have an idea of what is going on. I know that on his CWMU all the public hunters hunt at the same time. He tells them up front but if they don't call and ask all the questions he doesn't track them down and give them the entire story. He feels they should research and then he will respond. He also has no patience with guys that wait until the last minute, you call early, all arrangements are made months in advance, as the season approaches and it becomes hectic he responds when he can. I think it is a great program but like all things in life there is good and bad in all things.

BuckSeeker79 · Nov 11, 2008

Im telling you I've had my run in with the operator and a few guides on these CWMU's. Tell you what, it really depends on the unit. I've done alot of research on these, talked with alot of operators and I've come to find out that it really depends.

As far as recourse, I have heard it's a "take it like a man" and a "Sorry, but your SOL" type deal. My Uncle was in this situation a few years back on a CWMU, and the DWR really didn't do anything to help the situation.

gznokes · Nov 12, 2008

No excuses for anyone involved but I know at least one guide on a CWMU in Northern Utah was gripping because of the lack of quality bucks. He had several high paying clients and the trophy quality just wasn't holding up (all they could find were 22 inch 4 points). Maybe w your situation they were letting people come back or messing around with the dates hoping to get hunters there at a time when they thought there would be better bucks. I think the winter kill was really bad in some areas. I wonder if you got jerked around a little more because of that. I wonder if some of the guides think its better to tick off a non-paying public hunter and give the "mea culpa" to the DWR than to offend a high $ paying client?

woodruffhunter · Nov 12, 2008

There are some great CWMU's and some horrible ones. Paying hunters -vs- non-paying hunters should be treated equally.

Isn't this what the Operator agreed to do when he went into business with the DWR. If landowners don't like the rules, get out of the program!

Deseret is an example of HOW a CWMU should be ran.

cabinfever · Nov 12, 2008

The CWMU rules need to be outlined in detail in the proclamation or at least have a sub section people can refer to on their website. The rules need to be the same for all CWMU's across the board.If the operators are not willing to adhere to the rules than there out of the program. I was told this year that the CWMU operator only has to give you 3 days to hunt. I confirmed this, as I had a friend draw a cwmu tag and that is what they told him.He was also told he couldn't bring anyone with him. That is a load of crap.I'm sure there are more good cwmu's than bad but with all the recent complaints it sounds like the DWR needs to do some house cleaning.

Mike

huntinco · Nov 12, 2008

Guys? I was at the rack this evening and trust me your concerns on problematic CWMUs are being addressed. The new review board was put there for a reason use it.

Justin Richins
R&K Hunting Company Inc.
www.thehuntingcompany.com

cabinfever · Nov 12, 2008

Justin, I sent you a PM

Ticks N Tines · Nov 12, 2008

>The CWMU rules need to be
>outlined in detail in the
>proclamation or at least have
>a sub section people can
>refer to on their website.
>The rules need to be
>the same for all CWMU's
>across the board.If the operators
>are not willing to adhere
>to the rules than there
>out of the program. I
>was told this year that
>the CWMU operator only has
>to give you 3 days
>to hunt. I confirmed this,
>as I had a friend
>draw a cwmu tag and
>that is what they told
>him.He was also told he
>couldn't bring anyone with him.
>That is a load of
>crap.I'm sure there are more
>good cwmu's than bad but
>with all the recent complaints
>it sounds like the DWR
>needs to do some house
>cleaning.
>
>Mike

I talked to the web master for the CWMU website and he told me that all the information and rules for each CWMU will be posted before the hunting season next year. We should be able to go to the website and look up a CWMU we are interested in and find out a bunch of info.
Also, CWMUs have there own rules (Because it's private land) and they can do what they want with the land. But they are required by contract to allow you at least 5 days for big game and turkey hunting and least 2 days for antlerless game. They must give you access to all of the property as well.
Anything else is thier choice and they can do what they want. That's why it's very important to contact people that have drawn the tag and the operators.

BrowningRage · Nov 15, 2008

SWEETEST REVENGE ON A CWMU!!!!

This story is not first hand, it happened to a good buddy of mine just 2 years ago. I can't remember the unit though...

My buddy drew out with 5 bonus points. He was guaranteed 5 hunting days on the property. He went out to the property and found the "Deep Pockets" were also hunting the same time. For three days he was led away from these hunters to other parts of the property. He said that a couple days in a row his guide was sick and they didn't even hunt until nearly 10am! After three days of hunting he was told his hunt was over. He came home very dejected and disappointed with the whole ordeal.
He had put in for the hunt because his father new the owner of the property and they had been in contact over the summer in preparation. My buddy's father called the owner and told him he was very upset with the situation. The owner reluctantly told him to bring his son out one day and they could hunt together. The owner again directed them away from the "Deep Pockets" but they were just happy to be hunting.
It began snowing that morning and they were scared they may not have as much fun as they had hoped. While driving up their designated canyon, my buddy saw a deer on the side hill. He threw up his binos and saw that it was a good buck. He got out and hurried to set up for a shot. The shot rang true and the buck fell. When they got to the deer, they found a massive buck!!! The deer was a heavy horned, 25" 4x4 that scores 184"!!! It is a beautiful buck... My buddy had to check out of the ranch and the owner was so upset that he had got that buck!!! LOL He told me that was the best part about getting the deer!!!