National Forest/Private Property

Messages
63
Just curious if anyone has had the same issue. I was hunting on Ashley National Forest, which starts right next to Hanna. Well I was only around 18 years old. Anyway I entered the mountain from the top which is Rhodes canyon. I got down in a canyon that we have hunted for years with no problem. Well I got hiking down and I came across a hunter sleepin on a tree. So I continued on and he awoke yelling in my direction. "Hey Stop Hey Stop" so I stop wait until he gets close to me. Then he brings up "THIS IS PRIVATE PROPERTY" I said "what are you talkin about this is National Forest". Then he has a radio like the secret service. He's like I got a tresspasser. Then he threaten to take my gun. I said "ya right" and started back up to the truck. Well come to find out that UNITED SPORTSMANS owned a little piece of the bottom of the mountain. So I never crossed a fence or saw any signs. The only sign I saw was Ashley National Forest. So this guy never came looking for me or any of his party. I told him which road I came off of and all that. Any how I don't know if he was too far off his boundaries or if I was off mine. I went back to camp pissed off asking everyone why I got threaten and everyone said you shouldn't have. But since then we still go back to the same canyon and never see any one.

So what are the LAWS when it comes to National Forest/Private Property?
Has any one experienced this anywhere?
 
Do your homework and make sure of the land status of the areas you will be hunting. The BLM makes pretty good land status maps that show private and public land. The law in Utah is, you are not allowed to hunt on private land without written permission. With that being said, I'm pretty sure a tresspassing charge wouldn't hold up in court if the private property wasn't fenced or posted in some significant way.

I would be willing to bet that the guy you ran into was hunting the area, and didn't want any competition so he pretended that he was in charge of guarding a piece of private property. Just like in a game of poker, you got bluffed.
 
>Well come
>to find out that UNITED
>SPORTSMANS owned a little
>piece of the bottom of
>the mountain.
> But since then we
>still go back to the
>same canyon and never see
>any one.


So you just keep on trespassing and breaking the law!! Very nice representation of the hunting community there!

You will absolutely be found guilty of tresspassing if you are taken to court and were on private land. In most states the land owner has no obligation to post the property line. It is your responsibility to know where the private property is and know where you are.

This happens all over the west and you should know better.



Mark
 
In UT, private land doesn't have to be posted if it is irrigated or cultivated land. If it is rangeland or forest land they have to post every so often (can't remember exactly) and at major access points. If the land isn't properly posted and they stop you and ask you leave, you do have to leave, and you do need to have written permission to hunt on private land. At least that is my understanding of the law in UT. If it was me, I would check at the county office and get the plat map of the area to find out for sure. Good luck.
 
In Wyoming, it is the responsibility of the hunter to know exactly where he is. No requirement for posting, signs, fences or anything on range or cropland. If you are on private land in Wyoming without written permission, you are trespassing.
 
If you don't have a forest service map of the area that shows private/public boundaries, then you should get one. That would clear it up in a hurry.
 
Regardless of whether or not the landowner is responsible for posting their land, you should learn how to read a map and know where that you are on public land. Then you don't have to ask a bunch of random people on the internet whether or not you were trespassing. There's no way that any of us would know...

There are definately a$$holes out there that will try to bully a person off of public land if they can get away with it. If you have already done your research the next time someone tries to do this, you can tell them to go f*** themselves. But as I said earlier, if you were on private, then being able to read a map should help you avoid the situation.
 
Ya Family Man, nice representation of not knowing the law or what you are talking about.Every state seems to have different rules.And guys will lie out their teeth trying to get you to leave...
 
Here is the defintion in the '08 Utah Big Game guide book.

"While taking wildlife or engaging in wildlife related activites, you may not:
-enter upon privately owned land that is cultivated or PROPERLY POSTED without the permisson of the owner or person in charge of the land.

-refuse to immediately leave the private land if requested to do so by the owner or person in charge, OR

-obstruct any entrance or exit to private land.

-Cultivated land, is land that is readily identifiable as land whose soil is loosened or broken up for the raising of crops, or a pasture that is artificially irrigated.

-Permission means written authoriszation from the land owner to enter onto private land that is cultivated or properly posted. Permison must include:

-the signature of the owner or person in charge of the land.
-the name of the person being given permission.
-the appropriate dates and,
-a general description of the land.


-Properly posted, means "No Trespassing" signs or a minimum of 100 square inches of bright yellow, bright orange, or fluorescent paint, are displayed at all corners on fishing streams crossing property lines, and roads, gates and rights of way entering the land. If metal fence posts ar used the entire exterior side must be painted.


-You may not post private property you do not own or leaglly control or land that is open to public as provided by Utah code 23-21-4.
In addition it is unlawful to take protected wildlife while trespassing in violaton of Utah Code 23-20-14.


There you have it, if it was not posted they couldnt have charged you with anything but he had the right to kick you off, as long as he had permison from the land owner to do so.




Jake H. MM Member since 1999.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-08 AT 04:51AM (MST)[p]Most private property worth hunting on will be posted to the hilt in Utah. One way around that is take a map and a GPS with you. I have GPS coordinates on several areas in Colorado because they don't have to post private property in that state. That has saved my but a couple of times. We had an issue last year with the Climax Mine in Colorado. Luckily I had my GPS and the map from the Forest Service. The guy was nice but said we were trespassing. We had GPS coordinates and proved that we were on Forest Service property. He said "sorry but the Forest Service is wrong". We moved but have since got other maps and even the Climax Mine maps that show we were NOT trespassing. Come to find out that the guy that booted us bowhunts there. Apparently we had found his little honey hole. We are planning to go back next year and we will have all of the GPS and maps marked as well as the local sheriffs number too. That being said, it really is your responsibility to find out the boundaries. If I was told once that I was trespassing I wouldn't go back unless I had cold hard evidence that I wasn't trespassing.

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
I've run into guys like that AWLB. I've told them to go get the Forest Service or Local Law Enforcement cause I'm still hunting here------end of story.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I always use maps where for that reason.
I know I wasn't trespassing thats why we continue to go back to the area (FamilyMan). I respect other people's property. I have hunted for 20 years now and have never a citation. I just think that guy was trying to scare me off the mountain.
 
Like the others said, have good maps of where you're at and a GPS.

I have had several situations like AWHOLLOTTABULL in Colorado. Guys come in tellin you your on their mining claim. Some very adamant and threatening. Best to walk away....without turing your back. There are some serious low-lifes out there that will do anything.....if they got the nuts to walk up to your face and tell you your trespassing, when your not, ...what kinda ethics do you think they use when hunting? pretty sad.

Good luck out there.
 
I was hunting in Utah in 2007 in a new area for me. I had good maps and a GPS to locate where we wanted to go. It was all Nationsl Forest with a few chunks of private on the road going in. When we got to the place we were going to camp there was a sign on a spur road saying "no trespassing". This was about 5 miles from the nearest private property. We set up camp and went out to scout. Later on when we came back, some local "BillyBob" guy rolls into our camp site and starts yelling at us to packup and get out, he said we were trespassing. He threatened to call the Sheriff if we weren't gone in 4 hours. We called his bluff and stayed...he had posted the area to keep others out of where he wanted to hunt. Now that I think about it....I should have called the Sheriff on him.
 
Maybe he thought you were after Carre Shin Ob. It's ok tho...if he found anything he's probably long gone by now....

*cue the spooky music*

"Legendary stories about Spanish gold and speculation about the Rhoades family successes in Uinta mines have inspired many gold-seekers to scour the area for clues. In some cases the ventures have led to disastrous results, leading to claims of a lingering curse."
 
I agree with AWHOLLOTTABULL.. Another thing you could do is go to the county GIS office and pay for an Ariel/satellite map outlining the property boundaries, whether it's private or public land (may cost u $12 depending on the size of the map. While you are at the county offices, check with county parcel maps and find out who is paying the taxes or go online to their website and they will tell you who owns what and whether it is private or what not. Either way, educate yourself and if it happens again, find out information about the dude. Most phones these days have a camera, so take a picture and turn it in to the local agency and stop it from happening.
 
trphy,

I've been in a couple of situations like this - on both ends. I hunted some private property this year with my in-laws. It's been in the family for decades and this is the first year they posted it. The posted signs were promptly ripped off. Every tresspasser we talked to said the same convenient thing: "I thought this was public land, but nobody bothered to check before hand." One guy even stated that it's public land according to the DWR Proclamation, unfortunately neither of us had a copy righ there to dispell that load of crap. Conversely my in-laws couldn't tell people exactly where the boundaries are.

I've also been in situations where I'm asked to leave property where ownership was questionable. Situations like these turn into a game of chicken. Do you leave just because some joker says he owns it? If he's right you can be in serious trouble. If he's wrong than he just ruined a potentially good hunt with a lie.

Prevention: Go to www.mapcard.com. You can get some free trials but an annual subscription is only $20/year. Find the place you hunt and figure out the Township Range and Section. Print this off and go to the county recorder. Get a copy of the recorded plat map for that township range and section. It will cost you a few dollars. And you might want to get a second one shrunk down. THE RECORDED COUNTY PLAT MAP IS THE PROPERTY OWNERSHIP AUTHORITY. A RECORDED DEED IS A LANOWNER'S ANNOUNCEMENT TO THE WORLD THAT HE OWNS A PLACE. A lot of counties will let you order plat maps over the phone.

Laminate the topo map from mapcard.com and the plat map. Put this in your pack. Next time someone tries to tell you where the property lines are you can pull out your two maps. Identify location with the topo map, and then pull out the plat. The game of chicken is over, unless the other guy is a real piece of work. At that point you can have the confidence to call the authorities.

This is what I'll be doing next time I hunt the in-laws. Contact me if you need any help navigating through the maps. I work with this stuff all the time.

smelly
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-08 AT 10:02AM (MST)[p]I like Utah's laws. It puts at least a little responsibility in the landowners lap if they have land that is non cultivated.Landowners need to know their non cultivated boudries and enforce those boundries with an adequate supply of signs.Still, a hunter should be familiar with the boundries, but to say a LO has no responsiblity to adequately post his property is crap.

Mike
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom