Closing public land ?

[Castnshoot]

I see a surprising number of people on MM calling for closers of public lands to protect wintering deer. Some are calling for a total lock out of all, even foot travel for five or even six months at a time on what would amount to thousands of square miles.
Is it a mistake to advocate these types of policies?

 

[huntindude]

I'm all for it in times like this when game is stressed and congregated on winter range. responsible guys just out hunting coyotes or something are one thing , but unfortunetly we have too many morons doing stupid things. it's only for a few months in a few places, it's worth it.

 

[BuckSnort]

I hate to see more laws when we could just enforce the laws we already have...

 

[nickman]

What kind of self centered retard would advocate not allowing others to use public land, just so they will have a shootable deer herd next year?

Are you kidding me? No wonder the general public hates hunters!

If the deer are starving, that is natures problem.....if you want to feed them, go ahead.

But if you want to tell photographers, cross country skiers, snomobilers, or WHOEVER wants to use the resource, that they can not......then you are an idiot!.....and zero different than the anti hunters who protest your right to hunt.

 

[easymoney]

IMHO, This should be a no brainer.
If the animals are wintering in a certain area, leave them alone.
Much like spawning salmon, it's stupid to step on the spawning beds when wading a river while fishing, then claim you're only catch and release fishing.
It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that racing around on a snow mobile(or other direct impact human activity) in a wintering area that concentrates the animals will stress them out or drive them out of that area for good. I am just using that activity as an example, it could include any of the above posted human activities...
It should be a question of ethics and common sense. But, then again some people have em, and some never will...
No amount of closures or mandates will stop "some people" from doing stupid things. All the laws or closures will not stop poachers, trespassers, or the rest of illegal behavior, it's up to the individual to make the choice between right and wrong.
Nature and it's extremes are the way of life for wild animals and they have no choice, but mans thoughtless self gratifying behavior at any cost is quite something different, we do have a choice.

Stop Global Whining

 

[202typical]

The best thing for the animals is for the Government to sell it. Let the land owner mange the animals.

The only land the government should own is that property in-which they use to train our armed forces. I am OK with a few national parks but thats it.

Government is not the answer to any problems. ANY!!!


"Thanks climate PhD 202" - TFinalshot Feb-05-08, 02:16 PM (MST)

 

[blazingsaddle]

easy-
well said
People have the choice to do what they want. Unfortunatly, some are all about personal gain over anyone/thing else.

 

[easymoney]

I'm all for getting the government out of the real estate business, they are the worst stewards possible, the examples are endless.
It is simply a matter of enforcement of existing laws. But, no one can enforce manners or ethics...

Stop Global Whining

 

[Castnshoot]

So far it's 3 for, and 2 against a BLM lock out of public land to protect deer on winter range.

 

[eelgrass]

Put me down with Hdude. Close certain heavily used wintering areas. That leaves plenty of other areas for skiing, snow mobiling, etc.

Even now there are closed areas in my neck of the woods (Forest Service) when certain species of endangered birds are nesting. It runs from April to August, and only a very small area. That seems reasonable to me.

"CLOSED" is a lot easier to enforce than "harassment" or any other obscure defenition.

Eel

 

[doityourself]

This is for nickman.

We are currrently feeding deer in 3 locations where I live, and we are having a hell of a time keeping people out. Snowmobilers, skiers, shooters etc.....Let me paint a picture for you, we have 5 55gal blue drums full of feed, hay bales broken up and scattered, and some FOOL parks his truck in the middle of it and has target practice against the hill!!!! Snowmobile tracks all around it as well and by law they can't ride in this area. We have a gate with a huge sign on it, "DEER FEEDING AREA" might as well put a bulls eye on it.

With that said I am for closing these areas during the winter to human traffic. Setup some permanent feeding stations so the critters come to that paticular canyon every year, and then the IDIOTS can go shoot their guns in a canyon not used by the animals. Is that too much to ask?

As far as keeping the photographers, crosscountry skiers and other public users out of the deer feeding area, my answer is HELL YEA. Go pick another canyon to play in. To this day I haven't seen a photographer, skier or snowmobiler stop and ask if they can help. And don't tell me they don't benefit from the deer, they may not hunt them but our money goes into the land they are playing on. So I take offense to being called an idiot, but if I'm an idiot for trying to do something than so be it. Or maybe you have a better idea? Let's hear it.

 

[nickman]

OK....I agree, you can't fix stupid and some people will always avoid common sense.

But you have missed the point. Why is it OK for us to actually KILL animals and deplete a resource, but it isn't OK for others to merely be amongst those same animals when they are on the winter range?

See, your logic is totally selfish and is why we hunters are always on the defensive in regard to hunting issues. It's OK to use quads during hunting season, but it's NOT OK to use a snomobile during the winter on the same public land?

That's an idiotic attitude and I don't care if you are offended.

You pay for licenses and tags, so that YOU can do what YOU want with a particular resource, don't give me that crap about how you are paying for the future of the land and how you would gladly pay the same fees even if you couldn't hunt.

By the way, I have never been within 50' of a running snomobile. Don't think I have even ever touched one.

I despise snomobiles, dirt bikes, quads and jet skis, as noisey pieces of s###. I mostly don't like the people who use the things. That said, if I have the right to hunt and kill animals, then they have the right to do what they enjoy as well.

 

[toughshed]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-08 AT 01:06PM (MST)[p]I know who I think is sounding like an idiot here and Nick you are in that very small group.

Yes deer are hunted and killed in the fall. That doesn't mean it isn't worth the effort to try to get them through the occassional severe winter by limiting access and disturbance during stressful times.

It's all about balance...public lands need management just like a private ranch...maybe more.

There are an over-abundance of three-teeth, low IQ, white-trash in the group called hunters. What the rest of the sensible hunters and sportsmen must do is work together to keep as much access open to hunting and fishing through pro-active involvement and investing our time and money to the cause. There are many organizations to join that have that mission.

The worst thing to do is post poorly worded, profanity-laced babble on sites like this to show to the world what complete idiots are out there carrying guns and killing stuff. Continue to show the world what kind of morons are attracted to sites like this and the only hunting you'll be doing in 20 years will be on a video game.

For those of you who think fifth grade was your senior year, maybe you shouldn't post on this site...it's not helping our image. "I seen two big bucks" isn't helping our image one bit. Not appearing to have even the slighest clue on when to capitalize words or when to use a period or comma makes hunters appear to anti-hunters as uneducated, gun-toting fools. That's not helping.

I'm all for closures when they are needed but keep access open to as many activities as possible to those who are responsible and have respect for the land and others that use the land.

 

[Boskee]

There is nothing wrong with shutting off wintering areas to actually protect wildlife. But to those of you that advocate selling off those parcels what are you smoking? Making them private will restrict all access and that's a loser in many forms. Think not when was the last time some of you went hunting in Texas? The cost of hunting just went up the minute you sell off that land and then you may be confronted with a little issue called development which will really screw with your hunting. Government isn't all bad there are many instances where it's the only thing giving you access to hunt!

 

[Zigga]

nicky,

Do you not understand that hunting creates money? Money for the state and money for countless businesses. If there are no animals to hunt then there is no money for conservation, etc. If we let them starve then the economy in a lot of places crashes. OMG I can't believe I'm explaining this. Are you a troll or what? Close obvious wintering areas until May 1st. Pretty simple and it leaves millions of other acres for outdoor use.

 

[Wiszard]

The government should sell the land and let the new land owner manage the game on it? No offense but...are you nuts (somewhat jokingly)? The public will have no ground to hunt on...unless you want to pay a trespass fee or $3,000 for a guided hunt. In my opinion, that would be the death of hunting for a lot of us!

Steve

 

[TFinalshot]

"The worst thing to do is post poorly worded, profanity-laced babble on sites like this to show to the world what complete idiots are out there"

See post 12. . . .

 

[toughshed]

Doesn't even make sense TFinal...you've confounded me...

 

[Hooked_on_Coues]

Sell them to landowners? Are you friggen nuts?

Government may not do everything right but thanks to GOVERNMENT we have wilderness, herds on the rebound or thriving, people that look at the big picture instead of a self serving interest.

Good grief.

And Nicky, I guess you would consider me an idiot but that is ok. I think based on your earlier post I sure wouldn't want you to think I was as smart as you. Let anyone in to harass the game?

Good grief again.

It is hard to fathom that a site dedicated to hunting has such moronic attitudes.

 

[gundog]

I think public land managers do a pretty good job (except when I get charged to park at Tony Grove) and I certainly think that critical winter range qualifies for special protection. There are many areas where motorized travel has limited for "winter range" or "elk calving" in Idaho and perhaps other states, for many past years. As human encroachments overwhelm the West, it may be appropriate to limit non-motorized travel in certain areas. Wildlife is property of the state and a valuable resource--relax a little and take care of it.

 

[ClorideRUS]

Somehow we always get off the point. It really is about common sense and accountability! Who are the real losers in this discussion? The wildlife! The Karren's can justify their actions by saying "hey it's my job". Some guy on a snowmobile can say 'they got in my way'. Some jerk in their jacked up Diesel smoke belcher looking to get stuck can say 'hey not my problem'. Some developer can justify their actions by saying f'it I'm going to make 3 mil on this deal.

Guess who the real losers are????

Of course it ain't my fault either.

RUS

 

[Castnshoot]

It's, hard to tell about a couple of posts, but it looks to be about 9 in favor of Public land lock out and 2 against.

 

[nickman]

OK....I give up. Close it if you want.

It is clear that you are special people and what you do for recreation is far more "righteous" than anyone elses' agenda.

Think I'll accept the old axiom...."Argueing with idiots is futile. They will eventually drag you down to their level and defeat you with experience."