finlittle and conch
- Thread starter Muley_73
- Start date
Cody,
I think the later dates are a double-edged sword. It's going to give the public hunters access to the entire herd. In other words, before the change, the rifle hunt ended before a large percentage of the bucks moved off the Alton CWMU. Basically those bucks were never hunted by the average hunter, except for a limited number of muzzle loader late season tags. Now most of the deer will be moving and more hunters will get a crack at them. I think this is fair and the later rifle hunt should have been in place all along. However, with that said, I know the Paunsagaunt herd is struggling. Trophy bucks are at a minimum. There's no doubt in my mind that the later rifle hunt will produce the best bucks taken off the unit this year. In the future, tag allocations will need to reflect the higher success. This would likely mean fewer tags for the public. I will openly admit that even though I think the best chance for a large buck is during the rifle hunt, I will likely put in for the musket hunt. I just love hunting in the sand during November. And for the record, I doubt there will be any kind of rut during the musket hunt, after all the rifle hunt pressure. I've noticed the last few years the rut seems to start later and later. I think this is due to all the hunting, scouting pressure the deer are subjected too. And then the managements hunt?
I think the later dates are a double-edged sword. It's going to give the public hunters access to the entire herd. In other words, before the change, the rifle hunt ended before a large percentage of the bucks moved off the Alton CWMU. Basically those bucks were never hunted by the average hunter, except for a limited number of muzzle loader late season tags. Now most of the deer will be moving and more hunters will get a crack at them. I think this is fair and the later rifle hunt should have been in place all along. However, with that said, I know the Paunsagaunt herd is struggling. Trophy bucks are at a minimum. There's no doubt in my mind that the later rifle hunt will produce the best bucks taken off the unit this year. In the future, tag allocations will need to reflect the higher success. This would likely mean fewer tags for the public. I will openly admit that even though I think the best chance for a large buck is during the rifle hunt, I will likely put in for the musket hunt. I just love hunting in the sand during November. And for the record, I doubt there will be any kind of rut during the musket hunt, after all the rifle hunt pressure. I've noticed the last few years the rut seems to start later and later. I think this is due to all the hunting, scouting pressure the deer are subjected too. And then the managements hunt?
fin little
Active Member
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- 763
I agree with Conches post. I would like to see the tag numbers cut to reflect the higher success rate on older age bucks . The UDWR believes we are above total deer number objectives so I dont think we will see tag cuts. The following is from www.llotp.com. I agree with the article.Its 5 years old but still applies IMO.
Some Numbers to Consider
2004
For simplicity lets say there are an estimated 4000 deer on the Paunsaugunt unit right now. (I've heard anything from 3500 - 4500) A 34/100 buck- to-doe ratio suggests that 34 out of 134 deer are bucks. This is 25% or 1000 total bucks on the unit out of 4000 total deer. Setting all other causes of death aside let's look at tag numbers for 2004. This shows how many deer we have scheduled to kill by hunting this year and where they are scheduled to be killed.
If 60% of the herd summers on the CWMU as they say, this suggests 600 bucks will summer on CWMU land and 400 on public. Of the 400 public deer, about 30 are slated to be harvested with archery equipment and 90 with rifles. These will all come from the public herd because CWMU deer haven't migrated and aren't accessible during archery and rifle hunt dates. This leads to 400 - 90 - 30 = 280 bucks left on public land after rifle and archery hunts. There will be 30 bucks killed on the CWMU during this time. This leaves 570 bucks on the CWMU. Since the herd will have migrated and be hunted in it's entirety by muzzle loader season, a 570/280 ratio will be killed from the CWMU/public herds respectively during this hunt. This will lead to about 20 CWMU deer killed and 10 public. Most of the 14 landowner tags will be killed at the same rate leading to about 10 CWMU and 4 public land deer harvested. What all these numbers mean is that out of the 400 bucks summering on public land, 134 are scheduled to be killed. Out of the 600 bucks summering on CWMU land 60 are scheduled to be killed. This means we are reducing the public herd by 134/400 or 34% and the private herd by 60/600 or 10%. The main point is that we are choosing to reduce the number of deer on public land 34% BECAUSE we choose to only reduce the CWMU herd by 10% and we have been doing this for over a decade. It is all about hunt dates and migration dynamics. If hunt dates were moved back to when they used to be in late October, many more CWMU deer would be killed. For each one killed, a public deer would get to grow up another year.
Do the same math for each year from the early 90's and it will become obvious that we have selectively reduced the herd on public land by about 30% each year while reducing the CWMU herd by less than 10%. These numbers are inversely related. One depends on the other. Change the hunt dates so the public gets a chance to hunt the entire Paunsaugunt herd and more deer that summer on PUBLIC LAND will get a chance to grow up. In fact, the number that gets to grow up will be the exact number of CWMU deer killed by public hunters each year!
The next argument is that success rates play a major role in these numbers. Figure them in for both sides and you will find they don't change things much. The numbers still lead to the conclusion that the portion of the herd that the public gets to hunt has suffered dramatically over the last decade because of the introduction of the CWMU and the manipulation of rifle hunt dates while tags were increased
LowLander's of the Paunsaugunt
Some Numbers to Consider
2004
For simplicity lets say there are an estimated 4000 deer on the Paunsaugunt unit right now. (I've heard anything from 3500 - 4500) A 34/100 buck- to-doe ratio suggests that 34 out of 134 deer are bucks. This is 25% or 1000 total bucks on the unit out of 4000 total deer. Setting all other causes of death aside let's look at tag numbers for 2004. This shows how many deer we have scheduled to kill by hunting this year and where they are scheduled to be killed.
If 60% of the herd summers on the CWMU as they say, this suggests 600 bucks will summer on CWMU land and 400 on public. Of the 400 public deer, about 30 are slated to be harvested with archery equipment and 90 with rifles. These will all come from the public herd because CWMU deer haven't migrated and aren't accessible during archery and rifle hunt dates. This leads to 400 - 90 - 30 = 280 bucks left on public land after rifle and archery hunts. There will be 30 bucks killed on the CWMU during this time. This leaves 570 bucks on the CWMU. Since the herd will have migrated and be hunted in it's entirety by muzzle loader season, a 570/280 ratio will be killed from the CWMU/public herds respectively during this hunt. This will lead to about 20 CWMU deer killed and 10 public. Most of the 14 landowner tags will be killed at the same rate leading to about 10 CWMU and 4 public land deer harvested. What all these numbers mean is that out of the 400 bucks summering on public land, 134 are scheduled to be killed. Out of the 600 bucks summering on CWMU land 60 are scheduled to be killed. This means we are reducing the public herd by 134/400 or 34% and the private herd by 60/600 or 10%. The main point is that we are choosing to reduce the number of deer on public land 34% BECAUSE we choose to only reduce the CWMU herd by 10% and we have been doing this for over a decade. It is all about hunt dates and migration dynamics. If hunt dates were moved back to when they used to be in late October, many more CWMU deer would be killed. For each one killed, a public deer would get to grow up another year.
Do the same math for each year from the early 90's and it will become obvious that we have selectively reduced the herd on public land by about 30% each year while reducing the CWMU herd by less than 10%. These numbers are inversely related. One depends on the other. Change the hunt dates so the public gets a chance to hunt the entire Paunsaugunt herd and more deer that summer on PUBLIC LAND will get a chance to grow up. In fact, the number that gets to grow up will be the exact number of CWMU deer killed by public hunters each year!
The next argument is that success rates play a major role in these numbers. Figure them in for both sides and you will find they don't change things much. The numbers still lead to the conclusion that the portion of the herd that the public gets to hunt has suffered dramatically over the last decade because of the introduction of the CWMU and the manipulation of rifle hunt dates while tags were increased
LowLander's of the Paunsaugunt
