MDF & High Fence Hunting/Game Farms

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Since I was dragged into this debate by Joey, of the Rock Springs MDF Chapter who wants to see an end to MonsterMuleys.com, and read up on the debate over the High Fence Hunt they auctioned off at their banquet, I decided to email Miles Moretti, President/CEO of the Mule Deer Foundation, and ask what MDF's opinion was on High Fence Hunting and how it might play a role in their fundraising in the future.

Miles was kind enough to answer the questions I asked. Here are my simple questions and his answers.

1 - What is MDF's position on High Fence Hunting? Is that something the organization supports?
[font color=blue]MDF adopted a position against Game Farming several years ago which didn't include high fence hunting. The position was specific in that MDF opposes game farming of mule deer and black-tailed deer. Our Board at the time felt that we take a position only on mule deer and black-tailed deer not other species. The position needs to be updated and our Board of Director?s has asked us to update our position on several issues that they will vote on at our next couple of board meetings. High fence hunting is one of those issues. Currently, the Mule Deer Foundation?s position is that we as an organization are opposed to high fence hunting even though it is legal in several states. I don't expect that to change much in our updated position.[/font]

2 - Going forward, do you expect more high fenced hunts to be auctioned at MDF banquets? If another hunt were donated to the organization, would you auction it at a banquet?
[font color=blue]Brian you asked would we accept another high fence hunt at one of our local banquets? Probably not. The hunt in question was fully donated to the local chapter and the funds raised will go 100% into a local mule deer project of the committees choice.[/font]

Feel free to discuss, comment, etc., but please don't get over excited, regardless of what side of the "fence" you are on with this issue.

And JOEY, don't read!!!

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Thanks Founder for taking the initiative to contact Miles. So they are opposed to High Fence hunting but they are not opposed to getting money from High Fence Hunting?

I don't like it when the CEO would use phrases like "probably not" Its a yes/no queston.

I regret starting the topic now. MM's.com seems so empty without Joey the "Faiglrock". When I logged on today it just seemed like something was missing.

Joey,
Monstermuleys.com needs you. I have sent out the call, will you man up and answer it?

Don't do it for yourself, do it for mule deer.
 
Joey,

When you mess with the bull, you get the horns!

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Part of me says money is money and it shouldn't matter where it comes from. But there are some things that you hear about and say, "thats just not right to do". For the MDF to auction off a high fenced elk hunt i don't understand why. If you can't drum up enough donations and have to resort to selling high fence hunts your not doing things right. There are many other ways to get the donations needed to fund the projects for the MDF.
So to answer the question, my position on the issue is i do not condone it.
JC
 
AMAZING WHAT KINDA THINGS HAPPEN WHEN MONEY & GREED ARE INVOLVED!!!

I'M GONNA CHANGE MY SIGNATURE!!!

TO:::

I'M LOOKING FOR A HIGH FENCED 40" BUCK HUNT,WITH THE LAST 35 YEARS OF PISS POOR DEER MANAGEMENT & IT'S NOT GETTING ANY BETTER IT WILL BE THE ONLY WAY I'LL EVER GET ONE,WAIT A MINUTE,I'M NOT A RICH BICH,THAT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN EITHER!!!

"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
The 'probably not' surprises me. I was hoping to see, 'Hell No Never Again'. Seals the deal in my mind that my conservation dollars will be better spent somewhere else.
 
'probably not'

Didn't surprise me a bit. What's the guy going to say? he's in a bad spot here and he knows it. Damage control. Evade implicating yourself, stand up for your guys, and damage control...the mark of true politicians everywhere!!

I do think Brian got his point across and my guess is "Joey" may regret his actions. We all make mistakes now and then. This was Joey's turn.

the other Joey
 
Thanks Brian and Miles,
my guess is that auctioning high fence hunts is a thing of the past for MDF and the MM thread played no small part in it.
congrats to all that post here and MM!!!!
 
I can't help but think of the great irony in all of this. You just can't make this shid up. Somebody get dumbo back to fuel this entertainment more please..... "I'm gunna shut you down...." err "I'm gunna make your viewers more intersted in viewing"...gawd I like that strategy....brilliant.

On a side note, MDF better figure it out.....maybe, kinda, sorta... Popcorn please.

HK
 
Every once in a while a mans emotions take control (no matter how tough you think you are) and he does things that he maybe wouldn't have done on a normal day. I know Joey a little bit, he is a respected hunter and puts his time in both in the field hunting and in the arena trying to raise $$$ for the cause.

What he did was not a good decision.

Nobody on this sight is perfect, we all have our bad days. Given 20/20 hindsight, I would bet that Joey would have approached this issue a little differently. But that bridge is already burnt.

Be careful how you judge because one day the favor will be returned.

This website sort of regulates itself, it's too popular for a simple demise, when the dust settles most will walk away learning to be careful of what you type and that we are all human.
 
IT'S TOTAL BULLSSHIT!!!

THE MDF MUST BE PERTY HUNGRY FOR A LITTLE MORE CASH???

MAYBE THEY CAN HIRE CALL GIRLS FOR THEIR FUTURE BANQUETS???

"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-09 AT 10:25AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-09 AT 10:16?AM (MST)

I cant say I know miles. he must be hard to miss being he has
no spine.


rick norton
tubular transport
307-354-6491
 
That's pretty harsh man!! Why would you say he has no spine?

I am very thankful that Miles didn't just ignore my email all together. I don't think he can really say what MDF does or doesn't support until the board discusses and votes on it. I would hope that in the future we will learn the exact position. Don't blame him now.

In my opinion, I think most MDF committee folks would not want to auction a high fence hunt regardless whether the MDF board supports it or not. I would guess most of the guys "doing the work" at these banquets would pass on a high fence hunt at their banquet. Maybe help the operator sell it on EBAY and he can donate the cash to the group??? I would do that, but not push it at a banquet.

When I was involved as an MDF and SFW committee dude here in Salt Lake City, or when I was on the SFW board, I would have definitely not wanted high fence hunts to become part of our banquets.

I know very little about high fence operations, and I guess I don't have a complaint with them existing unless they really do cause lots of disease in wild game, but I myself don't want non-hunter friends of mine to confuse the "Hunting" I do with the "Hunting" that takes place behind a high fence. It's two seperate worlds in my opinion. I would like to see them kept seperate in all areas of MY hunting world.
I do not think I am better than the guys who hunt behind high fences, just different.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
Brian,

Thank's for providing some objectivity to a very serious subject.

I'm sure the MDF will adopt a more stringent position on "High Fenced Hunting"in the future. It's my understanding Josh & Joey have done yeomans work on behalf of the MDF. Their passion clearly got ahead of common sense. I'll give them a pass on this one.

While I prefer to leave the ethos of 'High Fenced Hunting" to others I would encourage all MMer's to take a serious look at the disease and genetic hybridization risks imposed by the captive game farm industry. The long term viability of our Wild Elk and Deer are in serious jeopardy.

More of OUR Tax dollars have been spent to control, research and regulate CWD than the dollars raised by the RMEF and MDF over the last 5 years ! What a waste

www.cwd-info.org ( The CWD Alliance) is a great resource on the subject.

Larry Thompson
 
"Maybe help the operator sell it on EBAY and he can donate the cash to the group??? I would do that, but not push it at a banquet."

Those are my thoughts too. I'm sure the person who was offering the hunt had the best of intentions and only wanted to make a contribution to a worthy cause.

Too bad it had to get ugly.

Auctioning off a high fence hunt at a MDF banquet would be like auctioning off a hooker at the National Organization of Women (NOW) banquet.:)

Eel
 
how can you trash a guy and then take his money or hunt?
if miles is against it like he said he should get out his checkbook and make it right.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-09 AT 02:41PM (MST)[p]I appreciate the input received from Miles. And I am glad to hear that MDF will (Probably) not accept future high fenced hunts.

I actually don't mind the qualifier in his statement. As soon as he says "Absolutely not", then someone will find a donated hunt that violates that code to some small degree. What about a nilgai hunt on the King Ranch in Texas? How about a South African Plains game hunt? A pheasant hunt on a "preserve"?

I am a vocal and strong opponent of high fenced "hunting" operations in the US. I do not even like the nilgai hunts mentioned above. But I admit they are close to my own personal line. My point is that this is not a black and white issue. In my opinion, the hunt auctioned by MDF was way over the line, and should never have been auctioned. These groups should not be taking money (donations) from sponsors of canned hunts. Asking a CEO to take a yes / no position without any context is just looking for trouble.

Bill
 
I have mixed emotions on this because it will benefit wildlife. Donors are getting harder and harder to find and the more we lose the less we are actually able to help the wildlife we wish to hunt. Hunting is a two way street in that you have to have $$ in order to fund conservation projects and where do you think those funds will come from if we start to get picky about the sources. I just sit and roar over all the hypocracy that we within the hunting community put forth each day. Most of us watch hunting shows and MOST of those hunts are on high fence operations because the stars of the show couldn't draw enough permits on public land to keep a show on tv. Yet we don't boycott all the shows that show hunting on high fence operations. We all look at the racks and ooh and ahh and still watch. More importantly most of us sit there and see an example of just what quality game management can and will produce and it's entirely possible in some cases on public land. Those specimens have caused more than one sportsman to open his wallet and hope that his contribution is doing something for the betterment of wildlife. With the loss we are experiencing in habitat on a daily basis out west we had all better start looking more towards finding funding to be able to procure huntable parcels for future generations because folks if we don't the opportunites will vanish just as surely as your 401K.

I'm certainly not a proponet of high fenced hunting by any means but I have to wonder if we as sportsmen are cutting off our nose to spite our face with thinking like this. I certainly didn't read Joey's post but I can assure you that we within the hunting community need every viable source of funding available today and in the future for the good of our sport and the wildlife. If some well to do gentleman wishes to fund habitat projects for Elk or Mule Deer or Antelope all we really need to do in my opinion is give a heartfelt thank you and put those monies to work for wildlife. Sometimes you take money from those that don't always represent your viewpoint because if we didn't the critera for donations wouldn't be acceptable to anyone. Believe it or not some would not take the donation because it came from a well heeled individuals that happened to make a product that we didn't use or like. When you attach too many strings on donations they seem to dry up faster than that desert wash after a monsoon rain. In the end we all lose if we set the bar too high.
 
Good point Boskee - if we were to boycott all the companies that sponsor high-fenced hunts, we wouldn't have any equipment left that is for sure!

There are a lot of issues at stake here. Game farming and high fenced hunting are two different things. So are fund-raising and habitat management. I am just glad I have not had any money available to be able to invest in any of these organizations because I don't think I could say I would be 100% happy with any of them.


UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
>Auctioning off a high fence hunt
>at a MDF banquet would
>be like auctioning off a
>hooker at the National Organization
>of Women (NOW) banquet.:)
>
>Eel

Too true Steve! Too true!

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
alright let me play devils advocate here for a quick second.
Those that oppose high fence hunting please explain to me how
heading to the hills with a 1000 yard gun and killing a buck
at 900 or 1000 yards is any different than a high fence hunt??
 
Ok wileywapati that buck or bull that you may shoot at 1000 yards, he can leave the county. He may be there one day and 5 miles away the next. Honestly! One behind a high fence you just run the buggy through one more time.
JC
 
Run the buggy through one more time??? Big muleys don't get big running from buggies?? Big muleys get big by outsmarting those running the buggies. Big elk get big staying where buggies can't go.


Still waiting
 
Wapti, i'll give it a try.

Inside a high fence the animals are fed because the are limited to the exact area within the enclosure. They can not get over the ridge into thick timber, they can't run for miles, and typically there are way more animals than any amount of payers are going to do so to harvest their own "trophy". Wild, free ranging animals are just that. Some guys get their animal some don't. There is no Guarantee!

As far as the 1000yd rifle, lots of guys have guns capable to kill that far. Mine probably will as well but i limit my shot to 500 yds tops. Anyway, having a 1000yd rifle in no way guarantees that you are even going to see a legal deer, let alone a monster fenced trophy, when you hunt in a fair chase situation.

Comparing a high fenced hunt to a guy who hunts public with a rifle capable of long range shooting... not even close to the same thing.

the other Joey
 
This subject seems to press the hot button for a lot of people. I've been a little hesitant to join in on this because of all the bashing and rudeness that is being thrown at each other.

I think you have to take a closer look at the people involved here rather than the organizations. The point I would like to make is that there are quite a few people who are involved with hunting at many different levels.

I think many of you high fence hunter bashers may be very surprised to know that a significant portion of high fence customers also hunt public land, and are members of MDF, RMEF, NRA, SFW, Monster Muley's, and several other groups and organizations.

These guys are regular people with a passion to hunt and be in the outdoors just like you and I.

In other words, these people you guys are so "against" are people that hunt deer in Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, and other places. They hunt free ranging elk, antelope, bears, and other big game wherever they can.

They are members of sporting groups, and pay dues, donate time, money, sweat, and many other things to help wildlife, including an occasional high fenced hunt.

I've seen these guys called "baby rapers" scum, losers, and everything else under the sun. The fact is, these are human beings most importantly, and secondly they are hunters like you and me. Almost 100% of the high fence guys hunt low fence, and no fence too. I guarantee it! They apply for the hunts you do, they buy bonus points like you do, and they love to hunt. Very few of the high fence hunters are the lowlifes that shoot an animal out of a trailer, or a feedlot as some say they do. Many of these guys are people you know and associate with on a daily basis. These guys take their kids, or their grandpa, or someone they would like to introduce to hunting to a high fence to initiate them and give them a small taste of what hunting has to offer. One serious misconception is that only the rich slobs hunt high fence. Wrong! Lots of working guys show up on these ranches to hunt after saving a few thousand bucks.


I think we as a group, or rather we as hunters are bickering and fighting amongst ourselves, and ultimately this will cause the downfall of our sport. United we stand, divided we fall.


I say we have to take a close look at who we exclude from donating money, time, and value to our conservation organizations. We will scream like a gutshot panther if a high fence guy donates a hunt, but we'll gladly take his money for dinner packages, tickets, his donated time, his backhoe, his chainsaw, skidloader, trackhoe, and whatever else he is generous enough to donate.

And, on the other hand we'll gladly accept money, donated time, and many other items of value from people who may be thieves, poachers, cheating on their wives, pedophiles, embezzlers, drunks, druggies, and many other despicable lowlifes without ever a question.


I've gone on longer than I care to do, but I feel strongly that we need to strengthen ourselves rather than divide and fall.

Seriously, I don't think we can afford to have this division when many of us are partakers of both sides of this fence.

Deerbedead
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-09 AT 00:01AM (MST)[p]I've already posted this on a different thread but let me reiterate:

High fence hunts ? bad!!!

Lack of natural predators good!!!

Kill off all the wolves, cats, and dogs so I can have a high fence experience on public land. Also manage the zones so I don't have to deal with pisscutters , I want nothing but 180+ bucks and 400+ bulls?

Get your local posse or if you have money, your local guide and go get that toad?

p.s. don't forget your paid informants, two way radios so your guide/posse can lead you to your ?fair chase? animal, ultralight planes, game cams, high tech bows & smoke poles, range finders etc, etc, etc?

e.
 
Hey, I think any person who can sell livestock as overpriced game is a genius. Just wish I would have thought of it first. If people want to bid for a lame hunt, let them. Just don't let their corn fed steak into the books.

I eat farmed meat all the time so it would be hypocritical to say people can't ethically kill stuff behind a fence.

I think the most unethical thing a hunter can do is kill something with no intentions of eating it.

2 cents
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-09 AT 04:44AM (MST)[p]Glad MDF took a stand. Game farms are a poor way to go considering disease issues and public relation nightmares for hunters.
 
Wileywapati
Come on man! I said that the animals outside the fence they can leave the county you may never get a chance to take that 1000 yard shot.
Inside the fence all you have to do to get a shot is keep driving around the animals can't go to far.
Thanks for telling me how deer and elk get big I always wondered how that happened. Guess I will have to get out of my buggy!
JC
 
A little insight (I don't know anything about this other than what I have read here, but I can tell you a lot just based on intuition):

1 - I told you in the last thread that the MDF didn't like this going down the way it did.

2 - MDF was likely blindsided by this chapter selling this hunt, after the fact.

3 - MDF can't say this will never happen again for certain, because about the time you say that, some dimwit goes and does it again and they find out after the fact.

I support the MDF - and they throw a dang nice expo each year in conjunction with SFW.
 
Deerbedead, good post. I've never been on a high fenced hunt and unless it's my only option, I never will. But I like your point of view.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-09 AT 12:01PM (MST)[p]Deerbedead
Your post brings up a lot of different views and I think that you covered the subject very well. It all boils down to what each hunter believes in and his personal preferences. I am not into the high fence hunts, but if they are benefitting our wildlife and the funds we need to continue supporting them, I can let them be. I guess to each his own. If someone feels the need to buy one of those hunts for their ego, then I hope his ego is satisfied knowing that he really personally done nothing that would change the outcome of his hunt. The animal is "caged" and sooner or later you will find it.
If the hunt is bought for a handicapped individual, or a youth, or someone who can't or never will have the opportunity to hunt public ground, that is a different reason to me.
But like Deerbedead says, the bickering is doing nothing but dividing the hunters amongst themselves. Is it ethical? That is something you must decide. Is it ethical to shoot 1000 yards at a big game animal? Again, that is your decision.
There is a reason that the record books do not recognize animals from "fenced hunts" and we all know why.
The biggest thing I see here is someone coming onto a public forum and threatening its existence just because they feel one way or another.
We live in a free country for those reasons, we can make our own choices, but we need to respect the choices of others as well.
God Bless America!!! And those who are protecting our freedom all around the world..

just my rant!!
Rick
 
The Muley Fanatic Foundation wasn't even a thing back in 2009 when this post was posted!
 
You're right. I didn't look at that. Someone brought up the old thread in the General Hunting and I clicked on the link in the thread. Carry on.
 
nripepi said:
The Muley Fanatic Foundation wasn't even a thing back in 2009 when this post was posted!
Click to expand...
The local chapter of the MDF was called muley fanatic. Then a couple members decided they didn’t want to work for a living so they branched off from MDF and started the muley fanatic foundation.
 
Who drummed this old post up, Joey Faigl isn't even with MDF, he is with MFF.

Bout gave me a heart attack!
 
slamdunk said:
Who drummed this old post up, Joey Faigl isn't even with MDF, he is with MFF.

Bout gave me a heart attack!
Click to expand...
Geezus reading comprehension must not be taught in Utah. Of course he works for MFF but this is an old post when he was with muley fanatic of the Mule Deer Foundation..

FFS...
 
So what is the difference between a high fence hunt and the Antelope Island Auction tag? Both situations are hunting tame deer that can't escape where they live.

I think it's pretty simple. You go to a banquet and they offer a hunt you don't have any interest in so don't bid on it and let someone else buy it and raise money for wildlife. you might have wealthy people at an event that don't really want to be true hunters but would love to throw their money away on a "canned hunt". that is their right and if the check clears it still helps do good for the cause. If I were the chapter president and someone wanted to fully donate a hunt that I knew would bring thousands of dollars in donations to fund my cause i would have a hard time turning that down. It's not like high fence hunting is illegal. no i don't do it, but lots of people do and their money is just as good as mine is, except they have a lot more of it. having items available for the wealthy guys to spend money on is a very good idea at a banquet. I don't think you should sell your soul and have tons of these hunts, but i don't think it happening at times is the end of the world.
 
This is an old thread. If any of you would like to begin a new thread, feel free, but I'm going to lock this one so that readers are not confused with when this discussion really began.
 
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