Don't Book For BC Mule Deer

BCBOY

Long Time Member
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For 7 years I've promoted British Columbia on these forums. Since non-resident aliens are required to hunt with a licenced guide and outfitter in BC, I've responded to many threads and PM?s asking advice on BC outfitters. I've directed people to the Guides Outfitters Association of BC (GOABC) to start their research. The problem has always been that the vast majority of outfitters in this province don't have a clue how to hunt monster muleys. For the most part, outfitters within this province have been sleeping and ignored the fact that trophy mule deer have become the most desired hunt within North America. While they have been busy selling their small ?southern? moose that they try to pass off as Shiras or their horseback mountain goat hunts, trophy mule deer have been ignored and sold as a ?add on? in combo hunts. The vast majority of the bucks killed by the GOABC every year are just plain dinks. Many are lucky to break the 160 mark. The odd buck gets killed that can have the tape stretched to squeak out 180. The true monsters that live in this province, the 200+ bucks, are rarely, if ever killed.

The pictures that I have shared of my friends, my family and my success? might give the impression that British Columbia is a trophy mule deer sleeper province, and in my opinion, that is correct. BC can hold it's own against some of the best producing states. But the one thing I've come to notice, while magazines like Muley Crazy highlight outfitter success? in other parts of North America, BC falls flat on its face. It is instead the DIY regular joe blow hunter that gets the job done within this province. It is almost embarrassing to know that the success I've personally had in the last 6 years, beats the success that the entire GOABC has had in the last 10 years. While my friends and I are hitting the high country all summer long or glassing the winter range for the next target, picking up sheds to know what the potential in the area is, essentially scouting our asses off, the GOABC are sleeping in and don't have a clue what caliber of bucks live within their territories.

BC is a DIYer?s paradise. Currently, resident hunters can hunt GOS mule deer for 3 months a year with OTC tags and a provincial bag limit of 3 deer a year. We are one of the only jurisdictions where mule deer numbers are very strong and increasing. We do not have a conservation concern. For the most part, we do not manage for trophy mule deer, with the exception of 4 point or better seasons during the rut. The bulk of the hunters within this province are meat hunters not trophy hunters. Currently, we only have about 80 thousand hunters within this huge province. That number has been steadily declining from a high of about 180 thousand in the early 80?s. If the numbers continue to drop, we could see the loss of hunting rights altogether given the liberal granola cruncher mindset of many of BC?s voters.

So this is what brings me to the point of this thread. Currently the GOABC has been putting the pressure on the Ministry of Environment to push for exclusive trophy mule deer only seasons and want mule deer across the province to be put on Limited Entry. They think this somehow will increase their success at selling you bigger deer. It seems they have the Ministry in their pocket and it looks like the resident hunter is going to get the shaft. Will this help them kill more big bucks? Nope, because they still are lame ass hunters when it comes to trophy mule deer. They figure if they eliminate the resident's from hunting, they can drive around and trophy bucks will be behind every tree and their clients can shoot right from the truck. As many of you know, trophy muleys rarely, if ever, come easy.

I for one am not willing to sit idly by and watch my hard work go down the drain while some lazy ass outfitters think they might get more bookings by restricting resident hunters. I am not willing to see draw odds where I have to sit out season after season waiting for a chance to hunt mule deer. If the outfitters want to kill big bucks, they are going to have to do it the same way I do, through a lot of hard work.

If you are considering a mule deer hunt with BC, I would recommend you go elsewhere. Your money will be better spent hunting with guides who actually know how to get the job done. If you book in BC, you will be sadly disappointed, as it ain?t as rosey as my pictures may have led you to believe.
 
you have been unsympathetic to every concern we have down here and have blown smoke about how great BC is....getting sympathy from me now is a waste of your breath....but....don't worry, I have no intention of heading your way.


No offense...I love your stories






great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
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Trouble in paradise? Cry me a river bcboy. I'm 100% with JB on this one. You call us a bunch of whiners when we talk about our issues with wildlife management in the states, now you have issues with wildlife management in Canada. What comes around goes around.
 
Too much...

I will add this, if I may. I work with an outfitter in BC and that's exactly what we do, sell the Mule Deer as an addition to a Moose hunt. I think the key is that you have to be honest and tell people, look, there are some good deer up there but your probably not going to kill a 170" buck. As long as folks know and understand that, why not do it that way?

Something else to keep in mind is that many BC hunts can be had for some really great prices. So, again, as long as you communicate clearly on what exactly they can expect, why wouldn't some folks be interested in spending $3,500 on a quality 7-day Moose hunt and add a few bucks for a Muley?

Afterall, it's the adventure that's the most important part. At least it is for me when I book a guided hunt.

okay...I'm off my soap box now!!

Raghorn Hunting Services
www.raghornhuntingservices.com
[email protected]
 
>you have been unsympathetic to every
>concern we have down here
>and have blown smoke about
>how great BC is....getting sympathy
>from me now is a
>waste of your breath....but....don't worry,
>I have no intention of
>heading your way.
>
>
>No offense...I love your stories
>
>
>
>
>
>
>great post/pic, thanks for sharing
>
>JB
>
497fc2397b939f19.jpg


As much as I'd like not to say it, I'm with D13er on this one.



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I had to comment on this!! I am still not 100% sure what BCboy is saying. He speng a looooong time basically telling everyone he is the BEST hunter and is better in 6 years than all the guides put together are in 10. Then goes on to say don't be fooled by all my awesome pictures it is only if you work your ass of that you kill stuff like this......then goes on to tell us how we works his ass off...then as an after thought talks about a law that may get passed. I got from this basically I am the man when it comes to mule deer and don't think you can come here and kill anything the way I do with a guide cause they don't work as hard as me. He does have awesome pictures and impressive pictures, but reading made me awesome think he may have inferiority complex. I just re-read this and I hope it doesn't come off to harsh, I am mostly just poking fun at ya BCboy.
 
BCBoy,
An interesting post - never hurts to get folks thinking.
Would you go a step further?
How about your opinion on whitetail deer hunting in the area just north of Dawson Creek? What condition is the WT heard in, and how was the past winter on them?
Thanks in advance.
Joe
 
BC may very well be just average...but Alberta is taking up the slack!
Money makes Money, and also changes law. Welcome to the year 2009. You guys are just about 20 yrs behind the states.
 
Eventhough you live in B.C., Welcome to America, Freedom is sadly going to be a loss from here on out!
 
Well, I'll say I'd be pissed off too. I'll never support taking DIY opportunity from anyone anywhere. I hope this law does not pass and doesn't wreck your hunting up there. This kind of $hit will ruin it for average guys who love to hunt..........And it's already happening big time down here.
 
My only question is why haven't you procured a guide/outfitter permit and start making some real $$$ off those pigs????
 
I hunted BC for what are supposedly big muleys in 2007. BCBOY is right. They were totally focused on elk and moose, and waiting for a few goat hunters. There deer were a minor afterthought. It is not likely I'll ever go back there to chase a big mule deer. Beautiful country, great scenery, nice people, but the guys just did not seem to care about deer hunting.

I was sent with a guide who started his career the week before, had never guided previously and knew nothing about the country. He'd never been to where we hunted. We saw one buck during the whole week and he was a 150-160 class 4 point. One hunter in camp did take a deer and he was a bit smaller, like a 145 4 point.

It was a fun hunt, but I would not go there again for big mule deer. Also, the elk and moose were not big ones either. We did see some real nice goats.
 
I think there are two kinds of mule deer outfitters, and two kinds of guided hunters.The bulk of the outfitters now days would consider a 4 point 160 class buck a trophy deer and quite frankly most guided hunters are happy to shoot a deer like that. That explains why most guys don't kill bigger deer on these outfitted hunt. They simply kill the 1st respectable 4 point they see.The end result:the client is happy, the guides happy, and the outfitters happy.In contrast, there are the premium ranches for mule deer where the outfitter is serious about growing monster bucks and the hunters who pony up the big money are serious about killing monster bucks.Consequently, the price reflects this type of hunt.Sounds like BC outfitters are the former. I really doubt the outfitters are lazy a$$es as you suggest. If their clients are happy, than why should they bust their a$$es to kill a smoker. Seems like a guy like you would be happy that outfitters are not targeting the top end bucks. I sure wish Utah outfitters had that problem.Count your blessings!
 
Quote - "Sounds like crap to me, but the majority rules I guess?"

I believe it's referred to as the "Golden Rule."

He who has the gold ($$$) makes the rules . . . or gets the rules changed to benefit him.

The outfitters ass'n pooled resources and lobbied for changes to benefit their business. I fookin' H8 lobbists!!!

I got nothin' against BCBoy, but I don't come to internet forums for looking for sympathy either . . .
 
Sympathy? Naw, I ain't lookin for that. I'll still be whackin and stackin the critters. I am still content to be living in the Greatest Place on Earth. Whinning??? Nope. Not doing that either, cause this is a battle the resident hunters of this province will win. Election coming next month. ;)

I am just giving people the heads up is all. I field countless PM's every year on this site regarding hunting opportunities in BC. I'm giving ya my opinion. Don't hunt in BC. You'll be disappointed with the quality the outfitters will show you. There are better places to spend your money.

The outfitters are the ones whinning. They are the ones that suddenly are having a hard time finding those 145-160 class bucks to show their clients from the cab of the truck. All the while my buddies and I have no problem finding the big boys. The one BC guide that piped up and said that it's rare to find a 170 class buck here. Really??? Is that for true? Geeze, that is a 3-4 year old buck. My buddies and I don't seem to have any problem finding them. And we ain't nothing special. We're just working stiffs who are weekend warriors. Imagine what we could find and kill if we actually made a living hunting?
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-09 AT 06:10PM (MST)[p]Westoakland,
The only recent major winter kill in this province occured in the Peace during the 2007 winter. Dawson Creek is right in the heart of the Peace. It is my understanding the muleys took a harder hit than the whiteys, but it wasn't good for both species. With that in mind, the Bios figured they were well over carrying capacity pre 2007 and were wanting to knock them down by 50%. I've heard, they pretty much acheived that goal with the winter kill.
 
I have to agree with BC on that one. Those local boys kicking some serious ass with the type of bucks they have posted.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
If Canada would let nonresidents from the US come and hunt then I'd be up there doing the "do it yourself" thing in a heartbeat. Correct me if I'm wrong BCboy, but if a person wanted to move to Canada he has to be able to support himself without obtaining a job for 3 years. Canada makes it tough to move to their country. For that matter it is tough to visit. If you have a DUI anywhere in your past history they will not even let you cross into Canada for the day. I know because I tried it in 2005. It may be a result of 9-11 and many other things that has happened in the US. I would love to visit Canada and would really love to hunt it but I don't EVER see that happening. And hunting with a guide is not my choice method of hunting. Enjoy the "good ole days" while you can BCBOY and be happy that the lazy outfitters aren't chasing those monsters. fatrooster.
 
Sounds like a great opportunity for you to guide hunters who are looking for monster bucks. Especially if they are willing to compensate you handsomely.

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+1 chef and Gator

BCboy you and your friends have an untapped market to make a few $$$$.

Down here in southwest AZ we have a hard time booking hunts for desert mule deer because everybody thinks desert bucks don't exceed the 160 mark. We have an untapped supply of 180+ buck with few hunters. 99% of the locals just shoot a buck for the meat over the hood of the truck.

www.southwesthuntingadventures.com
 
I have thought long and hard over the years of buying a guide territory and becoming an outfitter. Most territories are extremely over priced. And all you get for that price is the right to guide non-resident hunters within the boundaries of your territory. While I've guided a bit in the past for a local outfitter and enjoyed some of it, I'd rather be hunting with family and friends. My kids are just entering their hunting careers and I'd hate to miss out on the excitement of their first kills because I was making the 'big cake' guiding. The desire to make $$ hunting isn't in me. I am happy with my meager single income wages where I can raise my family in the good life in the country with some of the best hunting opportunities just minutes outside my door. For me hunting means a hell of a lot more to me than chasing that ellusive pot of $$ gold.
 
fatrooster:I take it that you're a guide hating DIY'er.

There is nothing wrong making a living doing something you enjoy. I'd rather be chasing big bucks or big rams helping somebody fulfill their dream putting a trophy on the wall than doing a one function job my whole life.

BCBOY: I totally repect your veiw. At least in your explanation you were civil and didn't have to slam us for saying "Here's an opportunity to make a few bucks on some big bucks"
 
mesquitehunter, the exact opposite is true. I am a DIY hunter and have mixed feelings about guides and outfitters that I will respectfully not go into because I don't want to sabotage this thread and because its been hashed out on this site many times. fatrooster.
 
Canada-France......... France-Canada! Is Canada Franch?
sounds like another country that can't win a battle!

Rackmaster
 
BCBOY, I can relate to your stand towards making money off of something you love. I had always wanted to be a guide. Well, ended up doing it for three years and then decided to give it up. It just wasn't worth it to me. I rather help my family & friends than someone I don't know just for some quick cash. I guess I'd rather be poor and hunt big bucks than be rich and sell them all out.

As for the outfitters in BC. Now couldn't I book a combo hunt and make damn sure I told the guide I do want a moose/goat but really was 100% interested in a big muley? Basically making sure he knew I was here for one reason, a big buck and not a moose/goat. Would these lazy outfitters, as you say, be willing to work their tail off for me to kill a 180+ buck? Personally I would rather have them point me in the right direction and then do it myself.
Enjoy your posts.
 

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