What governs...When do bucks scrape velvet?

NVPete · Sep 20, 2009

Since I have no hunts going on, I've been driving around having fun video taping bucks I encounter. Up until this week (ending Sep. 18) all had been in velvet... the last two days, I encountered 7 bucks in different locations and sized from spike to three mature 4-pts.-all had scraped off their velvet, but the last buck, a big two point still had thick velvet. Anything in particular to trigger them to scrape off their velvet?

fatrooster · Sep 20, 2009

I saw my first buck with velvet scraped off on August 26th and saw one that still had velvet on September 5th. I don't know what triggers them to scrape it off but I think they just know when they are finished growing and I think that some quit growing sooner than others. fatrooster.

trevriv · Sep 20, 2009

Basically... Antlers are made of Testosterone... All year long their testosterone goes to their antlers. When the antlers stop growing, the testosterone goes to their reproductive organs and they start rutting. When their antlers stop growing the velvet begins to itch, and the deer scratch their antlers to stop the itch. During that process the velvet gets rubbed off, once all of the velvet is off... their antlers stop itching.

OutdoorWriter · Sep 21, 2009

Trev,

Geez, did you learn that from watching the Sat. a.m. TV shows??

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

UTmonsterslayer · Sep 21, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-09 AT 12:44PM (MST)[p] If they scrape the velvet off, then how do you find antlers with gnarly pockets and such with no velvet? I think that once the blood flows stops, the velvet dries up and peels off enough to detatch from the antler. Yes, of course they rub it, but I think that it comes off quite naturally.

SneakAttack · Sep 21, 2009

I love it.

Any other theories?

NVJOHN · Sep 21, 2009

A wise old rifle hunter told me once, that the velvet stays put untill the "stick and string guys" are done hunting... its something the deer do just to make the archery guys feel better and make it look like they got a bigger deer

taking cover
john

deadibob · Sep 21, 2009

Trevriv you have it backwards. While antler growth and hardening is triggered by testosterone, antler is composed of proteins and minerals. The two primary components being calcium and phosphorus along with many other trace elements.

So you almost got it right but not quite.

Wyogstew1 · Sep 21, 2009

>A wise old rifle hunter told
>me once, that the velvet
>stays put untill the "stick
>and string guys" are done
>hunting... its something the deer
>do just to make the
>archery guys feel better and
>make it look like they
>got a bigger deer
>
>
>taking cover
>john

I think NVJOHN's answer makes the most sense

Happy Hunting

greenie · Sep 21, 2009

They start to itch???? I have a hard time with that one.

trevriv · Sep 22, 2009

>They start to itch???? I have
>a hard time with that
>one.

Then why would would they scratch it... Silly pants!

trevriv · Sep 22, 2009

>Trev,
>
>Geez, did you learn that from
>watching the Sat. a.m. TV
>shows??

>
>
>TONY MANDILE
>

>How To Hunt Coues Deer

Not sure, its possible

! Actually I read it in a book a while back. I am sure I left some important details out, but I'll bet its pretty darn close.

Bates7 · Sep 22, 2009

Awe heck fellers. The reason that the bucks rub off their velvet is because that they want to look handsome for the doe deer. Also have you ever seen two gladiators go at it with fuzzy swords? I don't think so. So they gotta have their weapons sharp and finely tuned for the upcoming battles. That's my thinking anyways.

OutdoorWriter · Sep 22, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Sep-22-09 AT 01:35PM (MST)[p]Tre,

Well, I wasn't gonna get deep into this...but...

See deadibob's post about the protein and minerals that make up the BONE of the antler. The only function of the testosterone -- a hormone -- is to actually start the antler growing process. And later, it also causes the antlers to drop off.

The velvet is what carries the minerals and proteins, which are gathered through forage, to the growing antlers. Those proteins and minerals eventually ossify (turn to bone)and continue to do so as long as the velvet remains viable.

And...the other post that states the reason the velvet starts coming off is because it dies is 'dead' on. It has nothing to do with any itching; bone can't transmit an itch. The fact bucks begin to rut and rub is only coincidental to that; that's why they continue to make rubs long after the velvet is gone.

If you really want to peruse some FACTUAL info, here are a few good reads I just googled for you. Enjoy.

http://www.whitetailstewards.com/articlesonsite/deerbiology/antlergrowthandphysiology.htm

http://www.whitetailstewards.com/articlesonsite/deerbiology/antlerbasics.htm

http://www.whitetailstewards.com/articlesonsite/deerbiology/hormoneinfluenceantlergrowth.htm

http://www.whitetailstewards.com/articlesonsite/deerbiology/factorsdetermantlercharacters.htm

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

Bates7 · Sep 22, 2009

Goodness gracious Tony, I thought that I was done with biology.

GilaJeff · Sep 22, 2009

>Trevriv you have it backwards. While
>antler growth and hardening is
>triggered by testosterone, antler is
>composed of proteins and minerals.
>The two primary components being
>calcium and phosphorus along with
>many other trace elements.
>
>So you almost got it right
>but not quite.

Thanks for setting him straight.

OutdoorWriter · Sep 22, 2009

Bates,

Hey, I thought I was too after six years of it. BUT...it's hard to pass on something that has the same effect on me as a squeaky blackboard. ;-)

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

Bates7 · Sep 22, 2009

Tony,

I know that you know that I was jus' kiddin. I studied wildlife bio for many years at the university level. The thing that I remember the most about my studies is the day that it all "clicked" back in my Sr. year in high school. That's when it all became more like common sense thinking to me.
Biology is rather simple and here's my theory: If you know the elements or components that make a certain system work and the role that they play in making that system work then it's all very simple. The only thing that screws it all up is when the system becomes contaminated in some way ie..viruses & bacteria. That's why we have doctors & vets.

OutdoorWriter · Sep 22, 2009

Bates,

10-4!!! Obviously we need to have something other than old age that kills people.

Here's a guy that's still working to get rid of the itch.

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

Bates7 · Sep 22, 2009

Yep. He makes me itchy just looking at him.

trevriv · Sep 22, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Sep-22-09 AT 03:45PM (MST)[p]>Bates,
>
>Hey, I thought I was too
>after six years of it.
>BUT...it's hard to pass on
>something that has the same
>effect on me as a
>squeaky blackboard. ;-)
>
>TONY MANDILE
>

>

WOW! You're cool!

Bates7 · Sep 22, 2009

TREVRIV we are just having a little bit of fun here. No offense intended.

trevriv · Sep 22, 2009

None taken! I am just having fun too.

NVPete · Sep 22, 2009

Hey guys! Thanks for all the neat stuff that was posted! Even the fact/fiction reads were great stuff! Thanks for posting and esp. thanks for your input, Tony!...but one more, Tony, what about the "stags" or cactus bucks that are taken well into the rut that never do lose or scrape off theirs?

OutdoorWriter · Sep 23, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-09 AT 10:23AM (MST)[p]NVPete,

Rather than me explain it with a bunch of unnecessary typing, here's an excerpt from one of the links I had provided:

"A second unique male antler anomaly is a 'cactus' buck. These bucks suffer from very low testosterone production due to hypogonadism or cryptochidism (i.e., their testicles are the size of a green pea or never descend from the body cavity).

Because they never experience a fall surge of testosterone, the antlers are never shed. Each year new velvet and antler material is grown over and around the existing antler. Over time this gives the antlers the look of a gnarly 'cactus.' These bucks are not common, but a couple are reported killed in Virginia each year."

And here is another good read on the subject:

http://www.kingsoutdoorworld.com/feature/cactus-bucks.shtml

And...noted deer biologist Jim Heffelfinger?s book, Deer of the Southwest, has an entire section devoted to antler growth.

And...here's an informative article he wrote on the topic:

http://www.deernut.com/Documents/cactus_bucks_ttha2005.pdf

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer