oakbrush
Active Member
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- 423
5 day hunt for all of Utah?
- Thread starter oakbrush
- Start date
W
WORKNMAN
Guest
I think a 5 day general season rifle hunt was what Northern Utah needed. The deer herd is in pretty bad shape for the northern region. I can only assume a 5 day state wide season can only help restore Utah's overall deer herd quality. Look at the result's in the Southern Region. Hell, those guy's down there want a 5 day season, not 9 day's, because of how much the 5 day restriction has helped the overall quality of the deer herd in the Southern Region. I'm glad to see the Utah DWR board show some ball's and make a much needed decision, that might not be popular with some people. But, was much needed for Utah's deer heard.Good Job!!!
T
tabbyhntr
Guest
What the northern really needs is to be shutdown for at least 1 year or microa-managed. But Anis will never do either of those cause then the dwr would lose money...
cantkillathing
Very Active Member
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For those of you that beleive everything you read, the five day hunt has helped tremendously in the southeastern region, those of us in the field have noticed lots more bucks over the last few years, so don't beleive that it doesn't make a difference because it has, the belief the DWR has is that people will pass up smaller bucks on opening weekend if they had a nine day hunt, and then when they come back on second weekend most likely wont fill there tag vs. 5 day hunt they will shoot the first buck they see. It is not a validated theory, just a guess. My theory is that most people that shoot a 2 point will shoot a two point weither it is 5 day or 9 day hunt.
I could have shot several 2 points but couldn't do it, one thing there isn't enought meat on a dang 2 point worth the hassell, and I dont need to shoot something each year to feel good. There is enough cow elk permits out there to fill your freezer full of meat.
5 day hunt should stay in effect in my opinion until the buck to doe ratio in the state is at a minumum of 25 bucks per 100 does. not the 15/100 that they have right now.
I could have shot several 2 points but couldn't do it, one thing there isn't enought meat on a dang 2 point worth the hassell, and I dont need to shoot something each year to feel good. There is enough cow elk permits out there to fill your freezer full of meat.
5 day hunt should stay in effect in my opinion until the buck to doe ratio in the state is at a minumum of 25 bucks per 100 does. not the 15/100 that they have right now.
Tell me how the buck to doe will get to 25:100. They would have to change it from 15:100 25:100 and that won't happen.
You are way off with the resoning for more deer in the southern areas. It has nothing to do with a 5 day hunt. The biggest killer to the southern areas was drought. The last few years have been wetter and have helped alot with numbers. If you look at the date that was gathered from the nine day and the five day hunts down there about the same number of deer were taken.
You are way off with the resoning for more deer in the southern areas. It has nothing to do with a 5 day hunt. The biggest killer to the southern areas was drought. The last few years have been wetter and have helped alot with numbers. If you look at the date that was gathered from the nine day and the five day hunts down there about the same number of deer were taken.
Until you figure out a way to get people to let immature bucks walk we will be in the same position.
I'm in favor of a statewide 3 point or better, youth (under 18) can shoot 2 points, spikes considered does. However if an adult wants to apply for a meat buck they can shoot a 2 point or 3 point buck.
Everybody wants to shoot big bucks. Very few are willing to let young bucks walk.
I'm in favor of a statewide 3 point or better, youth (under 18) can shoot 2 points, spikes considered does. However if an adult wants to apply for a meat buck they can shoot a 2 point or 3 point buck.
Everybody wants to shoot big bucks. Very few are willing to let young bucks walk.
B
Blue
Guest
I am no biologist, but down here in the southern region in the area I hunt I have noticed an increase in the number and size of bucks since they implimented the five day hunt. I am glad they are going back to it.
According to the information given to the Central RAC sometime ago, we were told that a 5 day vs 9 day saved only a few bucks- maybe 10%. Just recently we were told that there was no difference in the number of bucks killed. I personally believe that it does make a difference over several years. There are a number of factors that need to be taken into account from year to year. I have seen some years that the first weekend had poor hunting weather but the second weekend was perfect and the bucks were slaughtered. I have seen the first weekend have great weather but the second weekend was terrible. Having only one weekend to hunt in my opinion does save a few bucks. Over several years it begins to have a cumulative effect. Not every buck survives the winter but more do. The DWR looks at percentages of bucks killed per thousand hunter days. Even if you have the same number of hunters the number of actual hunter days could be very different from season to season, especially from area to area. They view the information on a statewide basis as a percentage. They don't really look at the difference in the number of actual bucks killed from year to year as they do as an average percentage. The percentages don't show that there were 25 less bucks killed in a certain area-- bucks that will be carried over into the next year. One year of 5 day hunting might not show much difference in buck numbers, but it absolutely will over several years- the proof is in the hunting after a few years-- more larger bucks because some of the little ones get educated and are able to avoid predation more effectivley.
Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-09 AT 11:51AM (MST)[p]They came out this year and moved the Southern Region from a five day hunt back to a nine day hunt stating more deer were being harvested in those five days because people hunted all five days rather than just weekends, now they implement a statewide five day hunt? Unfuggingbelievable!
Seriously, who's driving the bus?...
Seriously, who's driving the bus?...
It doesn't matter if its 5 or 9 days with the technology out there today with rifles, spottingscopes, rangfinders, radios, 4 wheelers, motorcycles, mountain bikes, and spotters on every ridge getting paid to find deer or elk the deer don't have a chance to get to the management #'s that we all would love to see! Micro management and cutting tag #s is the ONLY way to get it done right and as far as I have seen every hunter out there is against that, if I could only hunt deer in Utah every other year and shoot a good buck or have that chance I would be ok with only hunting in Utah every other year and going to neighbor States when I don't draw in Utah!
H
Hunterted
Guest
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-09
>AT 11:51?AM (MST)
>
>!
>
>Seriously, who's driving the bus?...
SFW is driving the bus.
>AT 11:51?AM (MST)
>
>!
>
>Seriously, who's driving the bus?...
SFW is driving the bus.
H
Hunterted
Guest
The biggest problem I have with this decision is the blatant disregard the facts are given by the board.
What they are saying is that yes you are the people who spend all year long working on this and you are the ones with the biologists and the data to prove the reality of the situation but we are going to side with SFW.
One has to wonder why a board member would ignore all of the factual information and instead vote in favor of a well funded private organization.
SFW the only sportsman organization that actually lobies in favor of reduced hunting. :-(
But SFW spends millions of dollars a year on wildlife so people will continue to support any and all of the recommendations pushed by them. SFW is wrong on this issue but it won't matter to many on this site becuase, to them it isn't about truth it is about getting what they think is best for them personally.
What they are saying is that yes you are the people who spend all year long working on this and you are the ones with the biologists and the data to prove the reality of the situation but we are going to side with SFW.
One has to wonder why a board member would ignore all of the factual information and instead vote in favor of a well funded private organization.
SFW the only sportsman organization that actually lobies in favor of reduced hunting. :-(
But SFW spends millions of dollars a year on wildlife so people will continue to support any and all of the recommendations pushed by them. SFW is wrong on this issue but it won't matter to many on this site becuase, to them it isn't about truth it is about getting what they think is best for them personally.
F
fly741
Guest
Nobody will ever flippin know how many deer are killed be it 5 day or 9 day hunts until they do a 100% mandatory harvest report. So, until then I dont buy the hoohaw about "the same amount of bucks are being killed on the 5 day vs 9 day hunts". I'm glad they went to a 5 day hunt it's just four days less stress on the heard.
Foreman4x4
Very Active Member
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-09 AT 01:14PM (MST)[p]>Nobody will ever flippin know how
>many deer are killed be
>it 5 day or 9
>day hunts until they do
>a 100% mandatory harvest report.
>So, until then I dont
>buy the hoohaw about "the
>same amount of bucks are
>being killed on the 5
>day vs 9 day hunts".
>I'm glad they went to
>a 5 day hunt it's
>just four days less stress
>on the heard.
I'm not claiming to know how many deer are killed between 5 and 9 days, but know for a fact that's the reason stated when they changed the time frame on the Southern Region this year!
Sure seems contradictory that they go back on that decision now on the recommendation of a PRIVATE organization and ignore their own biologists and RAC input, don't it? Maybe they need to shitcan their biologists, committee members, etc. and save the taxpayers some money! Really, what purpose do they serve if SFW is calling the shots?
Again, who's driving the bus (and why)?...
>many deer are killed be
>it 5 day or 9
>day hunts until they do
>a 100% mandatory harvest report.
>So, until then I dont
>buy the hoohaw about "the
>same amount of bucks are
>being killed on the 5
>day vs 9 day hunts".
>I'm glad they went to
>a 5 day hunt it's
>just four days less stress
>on the heard.
I'm not claiming to know how many deer are killed between 5 and 9 days, but know for a fact that's the reason stated when they changed the time frame on the Southern Region this year!
Sure seems contradictory that they go back on that decision now on the recommendation of a PRIVATE organization and ignore their own biologists and RAC input, don't it? Maybe they need to shitcan their biologists, committee members, etc. and save the taxpayers some money! Really, what purpose do they serve if SFW is calling the shots?
Again, who's driving the bus (and why)?...
G
golfbum
Guest
I by no means think this is a cure all, but it is a step in the right direction. I don't buy that the same number of hunters kill deer with a 5 day hunt compared to a 9 day hunt. There are alot of hunters or so called hunters that are not going to take the time off work to hunt those three extra days. So with a nine day hunt they can run up on 2 weekends and hunt 4 days where now they might hunt 3 and alot only 2 days. Also for those trophy hunters out there that have no interest in shooting a small buck gives them 4 less days to get it done. I think it will help in the long run. Also if Utah would ever go to a specific date to start the hunts on would also help! Good job to the Divison on this one!
H
Hornhog2
Guest
I hope they stick to the 5-day hunt. It had without a doubt helped our buck quantity and quality in the southern region. And I don't know one person who was in favor of it going back to nine days. The reason I heard they did it was because they said just as many bucks were taken on the 5 day as the nine day. There is no way that is true. No way! The 5 day was working, and working well, but one thing I've learned over the years is the dwr just can't stand a good thing. Just my opinion.
hogg_65
Active Member
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- 857
The 5 day rifle hunt does work. the southern region had more deer in the mountains this year before all the hunts started than it has for as long as i can remember.I spend a lot of time on four units down south year round and the last 2 years hunting has been the most fun i have ever had. Passing bucks every day out, seeing deer almost everywhere i go. If that is not the result of low deer harvest on all of the hunts, then what is the answer. most deer get killed on the rifle hunt, but alot of young deer get killed on the bowhunt all over the state as well on the opening weekend, and throughout the whole month of the bow season. The muzzeloader hunt i think has the least success in some areas because the deer are transitioning their habits from what i have noticed. If people think that 9 days is to much just wait till 2011 when deer will be hunted 18 days with a rifle. And the whole month of october will be a deer hunt, 2 rifle hunts and a muzzeloder hunt in between them. They have to put the whole state on a five day rifle hunt next year to alow a few more deer to survive for the 2011 SLAUGHTER. If they do pass their plans for 2011 I wonder what the topic of disscussion will be for 2012.
UTmonsterslayer
Active Member
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The number of deer taken may not increase with the 9-day hunt, but I believe that there is a much higher possibility of big, rut-hungry bucks being taken the second weekend.
I feel that this is a good move to improve quality as I have noticed a significant increase in big bucks in my neck of the woods since the 5-day hunt was implemented. That seems to be what many others say also.
What a great opportunity for the youngsters to hunt with less pressure. I am jealous.
I feel that this is a good move to improve quality as I have noticed a significant increase in big bucks in my neck of the woods since the 5-day hunt was implemented. That seems to be what many others say also.
What a great opportunity for the youngsters to hunt with less pressure. I am jealous.
H
Hunterted
Guest
>I hope they stick to the
>5-day hunt. It had
>without a doubt helped our
>buck quantity and quality in
>the southern region. And
>I don't know one person
>who was in favor of
>it going back to nine
>days. The reason I
>heard they did it was
>because they said just as
>many bucks were taken on
>the 5 day as the
>nine day. There is
>no way that is true.
>No way! The 5
>day was working, and working
>well, but one thing I've
>learned over the years is
>the dwr just can't stand
>a good thing. Just
>my opinion.
I think you are on to something, the DWR hates good things and their goal is to destroy all that is good in hunting. Indeed you have found the secret. All that biology and data gathering are just tools to destroy all that is good in hunting.In fact the rules of statistics is all a bunch of crap designed to destroy goodness on all levels.
HORNHOG says it was working so throw everything else out the window and listen to HORNHOG. Yep! that there is sound managment.
That is exactly what the board did in this decision. Had the board ignored good sound wildlife managment and eliminated hunting based on one special interest groups opinion (PETA)we would be pissed off. But because they did it in a manner that fit's your opinions you are ok with it.
>5-day hunt. It had
>without a doubt helped our
>buck quantity and quality in
>the southern region. And
>I don't know one person
>who was in favor of
>it going back to nine
>days. The reason I
>heard they did it was
>because they said just as
>many bucks were taken on
>the 5 day as the
>nine day. There is
>no way that is true.
>No way! The 5
>day was working, and working
>well, but one thing I've
>learned over the years is
>the dwr just can't stand
>a good thing. Just
>my opinion.
I think you are on to something, the DWR hates good things and their goal is to destroy all that is good in hunting. Indeed you have found the secret. All that biology and data gathering are just tools to destroy all that is good in hunting.In fact the rules of statistics is all a bunch of crap designed to destroy goodness on all levels.
HORNHOG says it was working so throw everything else out the window and listen to HORNHOG. Yep! that there is sound managment.
That is exactly what the board did in this decision. Had the board ignored good sound wildlife managment and eliminated hunting based on one special interest groups opinion (PETA)we would be pissed off. But because they did it in a manner that fit's your opinions you are ok with it.
I guess taking a week off work as a vaction to go deer hunting and camping is going going gone for rifle hunters in Utah. The area I hunt has seen a steady improvement in deer numbers and buck quality since it burned 8 years ago.
Why are they manageing the whole state like it needs more trophy deer?
These are general units to be hunted by the masses not trophy areas. If you want to hunt big deer from the road apply for the LE units.
If a unit is in trouble I understand 5 days somehow I don't think the whole state is in trouble. How did the trophy hunters get so much power in Utah? Are they the squeeky wheel?
Geeze
Why are they manageing the whole state like it needs more trophy deer?
These are general units to be hunted by the masses not trophy areas. If you want to hunt big deer from the road apply for the LE units.
If a unit is in trouble I understand 5 days somehow I don't think the whole state is in trouble. How did the trophy hunters get so much power in Utah? Are they the squeeky wheel?
Geeze
bragabit
Active Member
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- 809
What about the archery and muzzleloader hunters? I guess they get a free pass no shortened season for them. What a joke. The increase in herd quality in the Southern Region has far more to do with 8 straight easy winters, increase in predetor control, and habitat restoration projects than the 5 day deer hunt. So a "big old rut hungry buck gets shot the last day" so what, what are we saving him for. I am tired of the DWR managing for the lowest success rate possible so they can give more tags. If a shortened 5 day hunt is good for the rifle hunt then lets shorten the archery hunt to two weeks and the muzzleloader hunt to 5 days, If it is such a great management tool then it should be implemented for all not just one group. I would like to know how many of you guys on here in support of the 5 day hunt only hunt with a rifle? I will be willing to bet that 95% in support do not rifle hunt or are dedicated hunters.
oakbrush
Active Member
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- 423
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-09 AT 04:01PM (MST)[p]Bragabit
The rifle needs to be shorter because it is a highly effective weapon with a higher harvest success rate. If you want more days, pick up a muzzleloader. It is not about not fair this or what about the other guys that, yadda yadda. It should be about the deer herds.
When it went to 5 days where I hunt, everybody cried and said the DWR has thier heads up there butt, blah blah. Now those same hunters were crying when it went back to 9 days. Why is that? because they have had the best hunting seen in 20 years and they don't want to lose it again.
oakbrush
The rifle needs to be shorter because it is a highly effective weapon with a higher harvest success rate. If you want more days, pick up a muzzleloader. It is not about not fair this or what about the other guys that, yadda yadda. It should be about the deer herds.
When it went to 5 days where I hunt, everybody cried and said the DWR has thier heads up there butt, blah blah. Now those same hunters were crying when it went back to 9 days. Why is that? because they have had the best hunting seen in 20 years and they don't want to lose it again.
oakbrush
cannonball
Very Active Member
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Whether it's five days or nine days the thing what worries me is that it obscures the fact that herds are declining in Utah. A friend of mine who worked for the DWR, when we were pushing for the 3 point and better said, "You're looking at the wrong thing. All the herds are diminishing and buck to doe ratios won't mean a thing if the herds are gone." When you live in the country its easy for a person to take an evening and see what the herds are doing in the late fall and winter. Those areas around Richfield that used to hold a lot of deer have been depleting each year. I feel the five day hunt helps the size of buck, but let's help the doe!!!
G
golfbum
Guest
Well said oakbrush!
If you think that hunting with a bow or muzzleloader will better your chances then by all means feel free to switch over.
If you think that hunting with a bow or muzzleloader will better your chances then by all means feel free to switch over.
H
Hunterted
Guest
Your right when you say is should be about the deer herd. It shouldn't be about people pissed off because they changed the hunt to nine days and it shouldn't be about SFW and it shouldn't be about someone claiming that the deer hunting is the best it had been in 20 years.
All of the information shows that the longer hunt didn't affect the deer herd but that information was all ignored in favor of someone crying, money, etc. With this decision the board has proven that it is not about the deer herd. I don't know if it was about money, people crying, SFW or they just have a crush on Don, but it sure as heck wasn't about the deer herd.
All of the information shows that the longer hunt didn't affect the deer herd but that information was all ignored in favor of someone crying, money, etc. With this decision the board has proven that it is not about the deer herd. I don't know if it was about money, people crying, SFW or they just have a crush on Don, but it sure as heck wasn't about the deer herd.
longshooter338
Active Member
- Messages
- 833
Well said oak, I am in favor and have been in favor since day one of the five day pine valley and southern region hunts i am also a didicated hunter and have been since day one, and no i dont just rifle hunt i spend tons of days on both the archery and muzzle hunts with that said the archery is probably my favorite and yes its to darn long but thats all going to change in 2011 mark my words the bottom line is like it or hate it the 5 day has and is still working in the south ive hunted it all my life " the pine valley " and have no desire to hunt any other region in the state because of the 5 day and the unique potential this unit holds.
longshooter338
Active Member
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hunterted, First off when you say sfw just know that they speak an behalf of a huge group of people that write letters etc because they know sfw will be their and be heard second off if you want to drop names " don " sfw has been huge in the state of utah projects money ive been on board with sfw dixie chapter since day one grow up what has ted done for the state lately besides being a land whore .
H
Hunterted
Guest
>hunterted, First off when you say
>sfw just know that they
>speak an behalf of a
>huge group of people that
>write letters etc because they
>know sfw will be their
>and be heard second off
>if you want to drop
>names " don " sfw
>has been huge in the
>state of utah projects money
>ive been on board with
>sfw dixie chapter since day
>one grow up what has
>ted done for the state
>lately besides being a land
>whore .
So you agree that the decision wasn't about the deer herd and that it was about a bunch of people crying.
When SFW is wrong they are wrong even if they spend alot of money and represent a lot of people.
>sfw just know that they
>speak an behalf of a
>huge group of people that
>write letters etc because they
>know sfw will be their
>and be heard second off
>if you want to drop
>names " don " sfw
>has been huge in the
>state of utah projects money
>ive been on board with
>sfw dixie chapter since day
>one grow up what has
>ted done for the state
>lately besides being a land
>whore .
So you agree that the decision wasn't about the deer herd and that it was about a bunch of people crying.
When SFW is wrong they are wrong even if they spend alot of money and represent a lot of people.
longshooter338
Active Member
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- 833
Ted , were you in on the meeting that put the nine day in effect in 2009 , sfw was with recomendations from hundreds of people but no one listened on the racs , where do you get your facts sfw spent 0$ on this decision in my opinion the majority of the state wants to actually hunt deer and sees the 5 day the best option atacking don isnt going to get you anywhere don is one he77 of a guy do you even know him have you ever met the man shook his hand and or have you done all your bitching from the comfort of your home .
H
Hunterted
Guest
>Ted , were you in on
>the meeting that put the
>nine day in effect in
>2009 , sfw was with
>recomendations from hundreds of people
>but no one listened on
>the racs , where do
>you get your facts sfw
>spent 0$ on this decision
>in my opinion the majority
>of the state wants to
>actually hunt deer and sees
>the 5 day the best
>option atacking don isnt going
>to get you anywhere don
>is one he77 of a
>guy do you even know
>him have you ever met
>the man shook his hand
>and or have you done
>all your bitching from the
>comfort of your home .
>
I don't know Don and I am sure he is fine fellow. Your defending Don from imaginary attacks.
SFW and the board are wrong on this issue. The board voted to go with the five day hunt on the recommendation of SFW.
Quite being such a SFW lover and think for yourself. Do you really want the board throwing out years of data, years of biology etc. and taking the word of one special interest group?
Just because SFW does alot of good doesn't mean they are always correct, grow a pair and think it through instead of being a freaking SFW robot!
>the meeting that put the
>nine day in effect in
>2009 , sfw was with
>recomendations from hundreds of people
>but no one listened on
>the racs , where do
>you get your facts sfw
>spent 0$ on this decision
>in my opinion the majority
>of the state wants to
>actually hunt deer and sees
>the 5 day the best
>option atacking don isnt going
>to get you anywhere don
>is one he77 of a
>guy do you even know
>him have you ever met
>the man shook his hand
>and or have you done
>all your bitching from the
>comfort of your home .
>
I don't know Don and I am sure he is fine fellow. Your defending Don from imaginary attacks.
SFW and the board are wrong on this issue. The board voted to go with the five day hunt on the recommendation of SFW.
Quite being such a SFW lover and think for yourself. Do you really want the board throwing out years of data, years of biology etc. and taking the word of one special interest group?
Just because SFW does alot of good doesn't mean they are always correct, grow a pair and think it through instead of being a freaking SFW robot!
longshooter338
Active Member
- Messages
- 833
LMFAO, Did you even read my post # 29 sfw robot im not and as far as my pair im not the one disabeling my user profile da.
kody
kody
cantkillathing
Very Active Member
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- 1,455
Hunterted, The southern and southeastern racs both voted to go back to a 5 day hunt, because both regions seen how the quality of bucks went up during this time frame. It was the other regions that fought this just like southern and southeastern did when they first implimented a 5 day hunt, give it time and the central, northern and northeastern will be glad they went to a 5 day hunt, just like us in the southern and southeastern regions. we all seen how it works.
Also there is no proven data about weather fewer bucks were taken on a 9 day or 5 day, it is a guess, no facts, nobody is discrediting the biologist. The DWR wants to keep buck to doe ratios at a minimum. Most of us are sick of minimum and would like to push for more bucks in the field so you can pass several up before shooting one.
Also there is no proven data about weather fewer bucks were taken on a 9 day or 5 day, it is a guess, no facts, nobody is discrediting the biologist. The DWR wants to keep buck to doe ratios at a minimum. Most of us are sick of minimum and would like to push for more bucks in the field so you can pass several up before shooting one.
U
Ungulate
Guest
Thanks SFW I was considering spending some time in the hills and holding out for a big one. NOW the first buck I see is going down. Just in spite of the 5 day season.
bragabit
Active Member
- Messages
- 809
Oakbrush,
I have been a dedicated hunted for 12 years getting out last year. I agree rifles are more effective than muzzleloaders or bows. In theory though if less days in the field means less deer killed then it should be relevent for archery and muzzloaders as well. It may not be to the same extent but it has some effect. Again the weather for the last 8 years has far more effect on the bucks you are seeing than the five day hunt.
I have been a dedicated hunted for 12 years getting out last year. I agree rifles are more effective than muzzleloaders or bows. In theory though if less days in the field means less deer killed then it should be relevent for archery and muzzloaders as well. It may not be to the same extent but it has some effect. Again the weather for the last 8 years has far more effect on the bucks you are seeing than the five day hunt.
bragabit
Active Member
- Messages
- 809
Longshooter, since you don't really rifle hunt you want the rifle hunt shortened. Ok Since I don't really archery hunt let me make the decision for you to shorten your hunt to two weeks. Why do you not like to live under the same rules as the rifle hunters. I would be completly happy if all hunts were shortened, but it pi**es me off that only the rifle hunter take the hit. And what is up with archery hunters hunting rutting deer on the wasatch when it is in supposedly such serious trouble.
deadibob
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,049
I have only hunted Utah for 23 years, since the mid '80's. In that time I have only seen two things have a positive effect on the deer herd. The first was when the state went from unlimited deer tags to 97,000 tags. The second improvement was going from a 9 day to a five day rifle hunt. Believe it or not after the 5 day hunt started in S. Utah there was a huge difference in the amount of bucks and especially older age class bucks.
Ask anyone who hunted southern utah before and after the 5 day hunt started what their opinion is. In the 80's a 4 point buck was a rare find. That's not the case anymore.
I think these are babysteps but they are steps in the right direction. I think we are just now beginning to see results in the range improvements that have been done over the last several years and that will continue to pay off.
Now if we can start to micro-manage the deer herd with smaller units, keep tag #'s in check and continue to improve winter range then I think 10 years from now we'll have some of the best muley hunting in the country.
Ask anyone who hunted southern utah before and after the 5 day hunt started what their opinion is. In the 80's a 4 point buck was a rare find. That's not the case anymore.
I think these are babysteps but they are steps in the right direction. I think we are just now beginning to see results in the range improvements that have been done over the last several years and that will continue to pay off.
Now if we can start to micro-manage the deer herd with smaller units, keep tag #'s in check and continue to improve winter range then I think 10 years from now we'll have some of the best muley hunting in the country.
I would like to know how many of you really put more than 5 days in the field on the rifle hunt because when I am out on the mountain after the 1st weekend I hardly see anyone and often wonder if most people only hunt 4 days because of work.
Fact is that the average person only hunts 4 days, if this goes to a 5 day hunt there will be a huge amount of people hunting during the week and the numbers of deer being shot could increase and destroy some good units that are on there way back. I really wish they would micro manage the State and do away with about 25% of the tags!
Bowhunters have the best oppurtunity to hunt but there kill ratio is still lower than rifle and muzz huters added together, the hunts on the Wasatch Front are there for a reason, less deer are getting hit by cars in Parleys and homeowners in some of the canyon areas feel safer knowing that a bullet isn't going to fly over the ridge and kill someone, had the State not made this a arhery only area we could of had a serious deer problem in that area.
We will only have a 5 day hunt for one year because as we know how the division works it will change again because they don't know how to leave things in place long enough to see if it actually works, the special interst groups like SFW are to involved and are wanting to be the heros instead of the supporters, thats why they are special inerest groups they have their own game plan to benefit them!
Support the State not the groups and maybe one day they will listen to us the public who really gives a damn about our hunting oppurtunities!
Fact is that the average person only hunts 4 days, if this goes to a 5 day hunt there will be a huge amount of people hunting during the week and the numbers of deer being shot could increase and destroy some good units that are on there way back. I really wish they would micro manage the State and do away with about 25% of the tags!
Bowhunters have the best oppurtunity to hunt but there kill ratio is still lower than rifle and muzz huters added together, the hunts on the Wasatch Front are there for a reason, less deer are getting hit by cars in Parleys and homeowners in some of the canyon areas feel safer knowing that a bullet isn't going to fly over the ridge and kill someone, had the State not made this a arhery only area we could of had a serious deer problem in that area.
We will only have a 5 day hunt for one year because as we know how the division works it will change again because they don't know how to leave things in place long enough to see if it actually works, the special interst groups like SFW are to involved and are wanting to be the heros instead of the supporters, thats why they are special inerest groups they have their own game plan to benefit them!
Support the State not the groups and maybe one day they will listen to us the public who really gives a damn about our hunting oppurtunities!
thepenquin
Active Member
- Messages
- 211
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-09
>AT 11:51?AM (MST)
>
>They came out this year and
>moved the Southern Region from
>a five day hunt back
>to a nine day hunt
>stating more deer were being
>harvested in those five days
>because people hunted all five
>days rather than just weekends,
>now they implement a statewide
>five day hunt? Unfuggingbelievable!
>
>Seriously, who's driving the bus?...
SFW is driving the bus like always. You basically took the words out of my mouth with your post.
>AT 11:51?AM (MST)
>
>They came out this year and
>moved the Southern Region from
>a five day hunt back
>to a nine day hunt
>stating more deer were being
>harvested in those five days
>because people hunted all five
>days rather than just weekends,
>now they implement a statewide
>five day hunt? Unfuggingbelievable!
>
>Seriously, who's driving the bus?...
SFW is driving the bus like always. You basically took the words out of my mouth with your post.
longshooter338
Active Member
- Messages
- 833
BRAGABIT,Where in the he77 did you get i dont rifle hunt i love the rifle hunt and hunt it every year and if you have the power do us all a favor and shorten the archery deer to 14days as i posted earlier i wish it was shorter if you jacks cant find and kill a good buck in 5 days maybe you should golf or knit shorten them all to 5days for all i care i do my scouting before the hunts start so i know where to be and if you dont like the rut hunt in your neck of the woods then pick up a bow or get off the couch and do something about it you did pick up on the part where i love the rifle hunt and get it done in 5 right!!!
D
DanHatch
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-09 AT 08:35PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-09 AT 08:29?PM (MST)
Okay so I have heard a lot of people opinions on why or why not the 5 day hunt would be a good thing or a bad thing. Well here is some facts I hunted in the southern region this year. In the first five days NOBODY in my camp killed and I hadn't heard of to many being killed. Thursday my dad killed a nice 24 inch four point. On friday my brother in law killed a 3X4. On saturday my cousin killed a nice 180 buck, same day my two buddies killed a 170 and a 3X4. And on sunday the last day of the hunt I killed a 3 point.
So there was 9 tags in camp and out of them 6 were filled all of them after wednesday (the fifth day). And the reason I think we did so well is the fact that we got to hunt later more deer had moved down low. And that the hunt had only been a 5 day hunt for the last few years so there was more deer.
O yeah one more thing I seen the same guys sitting on the same ridges for all nine days I don't know where you were hunting but these guys had to hike in where they were at and they were there all 9 days!
But thats just my two cents.
Okay so I have heard a lot of people opinions on why or why not the 5 day hunt would be a good thing or a bad thing. Well here is some facts I hunted in the southern region this year. In the first five days NOBODY in my camp killed and I hadn't heard of to many being killed. Thursday my dad killed a nice 24 inch four point. On friday my brother in law killed a 3X4. On saturday my cousin killed a nice 180 buck, same day my two buddies killed a 170 and a 3X4. And on sunday the last day of the hunt I killed a 3 point.
So there was 9 tags in camp and out of them 6 were filled all of them after wednesday (the fifth day). And the reason I think we did so well is the fact that we got to hunt later more deer had moved down low. And that the hunt had only been a 5 day hunt for the last few years so there was more deer.
O yeah one more thing I seen the same guys sitting on the same ridges for all nine days I don't know where you were hunting but these guys had to hike in where they were at and they were there all 9 days!
But thats just my two cents.
longshooter338
Active Member
- Messages
- 833
spotit1st, when are you people going to wake up and realize the division only really cares about one thing $$$$$ case in point they proposed a 9 day hunt based on the fact that they THOUGHT the buck to doe ratio was going to be above objective BUT those figures dont even become available to them entil like feb 2010 you said yourself the division cant leave anything alone so why would you think for one second they care about your deer heard and when did sfw fall under a special intrest group who do you think has been financing all this winter range work across the state for your deer heard sure as he77 wasnt spotitlast!!!!!
thepenquin
Active Member
- Messages
- 211
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-09 AT 08:55PM (MST)[p]Curious to know what proposals SFW supports for the 2011 changes? That way I can just plan on those changes now. Let's see, this year we'll go to 5 day state wide gen. rifle hunt, 2011 there will be two seperate 5 day gen. season rifle hunts,"that is if SFW agrees" and the muzzy hunt in there somewhere also? Is one year of a 5 day season going to really make a significant difference for the herd? How bout some facts, numbers, management?
"All aboard, all aboard the SFW train, choo choo"
"All aboard, all aboard the SFW train, choo choo"
S
SMELLYBUCK
Guest
deadi,
If the tag cutting and season cutting has been so wonderful, why do people complain more than ever?
I can't believe how many hunters in Southern Utah say that the 5 day hunt has worked wonders and then complain about how bad the deer herd is - all in the same breath.
Look at all the changes in the past 23 years. You could hunt all three hunts, statewide, unlimited tags, & archery hntrs could take a doe. Is the hunt any better than when you started? If so, how do you get people to stop crying about how bad it has become?
If the tag cutting and season cutting has been so wonderful, why do people complain more than ever?
I can't believe how many hunters in Southern Utah say that the 5 day hunt has worked wonders and then complain about how bad the deer herd is - all in the same breath.
Look at all the changes in the past 23 years. You could hunt all three hunts, statewide, unlimited tags, & archery hntrs could take a doe. Is the hunt any better than when you started? If so, how do you get people to stop crying about how bad it has become?
You know people like you don't get it, the division does care about the money they do care about the wildlife and they do rely on the special groups to help them out and in return they give these groups limited entry tags, I wonder if they would quit raising money if the division didn't give them any tags?
As far as winter ranges there has been a improvement in some areas but thats not our entire problem. The only thing SFW has been doing in my area is feeding deer hay until they run out of money and then the deer stay in that area and DIE because they keep waiting for the freaking idiots to bring them food every day. You know the only reason the division can't leave anything alone is because they listen to these groups instead of listening to their own bioligists who are educated.
As far as winter ranges there has been a improvement in some areas but thats not our entire problem. The only thing SFW has been doing in my area is feeding deer hay until they run out of money and then the deer stay in that area and DIE because they keep waiting for the freaking idiots to bring them food every day. You know the only reason the division can't leave anything alone is because they listen to these groups instead of listening to their own bioligists who are educated.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-09 AT 10:07PM (MST)[p]All we have to do now is tighten the belt on the CWMU and governors tags, give THEM five days to hunt their special units! It's all about who has the money! It can't be too hard to find a good deer on the Henry's with a guide service and that kind of money!
Who thinks SFW will push that?
Who thinks SFW will push that?
I am very happy that the SFW has pushed for a five day hunt. Why is everyone after them for trying to protect the deer herds? I know where I grew up the SFW id the only group that even thought about the deer herds two years ago when we had the bad winter. I also know that the MDF and the DWR did nothing to help and in some ways tried to stop the feeding proccess that the SFW was trying to implement.
I may get hung for this one but, I really wish that they would push for more than just a five day hunt. I wish they would push for it to be from Monday-Friday unless you are a youth. There is a unit in Idaho that I used to hunt that had a hunt like that. Best hunting I ever have seen. The only thing Idaho did wrong was it was unlimited tag numbers and a magazine reported on that unit and it went down hill fast. They have luckily changed it to a draw now and it is recovering. But I hope they do more for the deer herds, something like a middle week five day hunt.
If they did something like that you would see the states deer herd turn around in a few years because 50% more of those 2 and 3 year olds are going to make it to maturity.
just my opinion. so lets hear what kind of a jacka$$ I am for reccomending a middle week hunt.
I may get hung for this one but, I really wish that they would push for more than just a five day hunt. I wish they would push for it to be from Monday-Friday unless you are a youth. There is a unit in Idaho that I used to hunt that had a hunt like that. Best hunting I ever have seen. The only thing Idaho did wrong was it was unlimited tag numbers and a magazine reported on that unit and it went down hill fast. They have luckily changed it to a draw now and it is recovering. But I hope they do more for the deer herds, something like a middle week five day hunt.
If they did something like that you would see the states deer herd turn around in a few years because 50% more of those 2 and 3 year olds are going to make it to maturity.
just my opinion. so lets hear what kind of a jacka$$ I am for reccomending a middle week hunt.
oakbrush
Active Member
- Messages
- 423
"Oakbrush,
I have been a dedicated hunted for 12 years getting out last year. I agree rifles are more effective than muzzleloaders or bows. In theory though if less days in the field means less deer killed then it should be relevent for archery and muzzloaders as well. It may not be to the same extent but it has some effect. Again the weather for the last 8 years has far more effect on the bucks you are seeing than the five day hunt".
Bragabit,
You have been a dedicated hunter for 12 years. Great. That means that you had close to 4 months of hunting available(including extended archery) to take advantage of in Utah. Yet you get on here complain about losing 4 days? WTF? It is attitudes like that will always hold us back from letting our deer recover. Everyone that is complaining about the shorter season is just thinking 'what about me' when we should step back and say 'what about the deer'
oakbrush
I have been a dedicated hunted for 12 years getting out last year. I agree rifles are more effective than muzzleloaders or bows. In theory though if less days in the field means less deer killed then it should be relevent for archery and muzzloaders as well. It may not be to the same extent but it has some effect. Again the weather for the last 8 years has far more effect on the bucks you are seeing than the five day hunt".
Bragabit,
You have been a dedicated hunter for 12 years. Great. That means that you had close to 4 months of hunting available(including extended archery) to take advantage of in Utah. Yet you get on here complain about losing 4 days? WTF? It is attitudes like that will always hold us back from letting our deer recover. Everyone that is complaining about the shorter season is just thinking 'what about me' when we should step back and say 'what about the deer'
oakbrush
S
SMELLYBUCK
Guest
Can any hunter here help me understand the constant attitude that we need to decrease success rates?
I would expect this mentality from anti hunting groups. I would expect hunters to think of ways to grow a herd other than getting more guys just like us out of the field. If you think that the only way to grow a herd is to limit hunting and that is your primary goal, then stop hunting!!!
Nobody really seems to realize if you want to grow a herd fawn survival must exceed all the mature deer that were killed in a given year. There is far more to this than the general season buck harvest if you take time to think about it.
Nobody really seems to have the conclusion that all the drastic tag cutting, boundary changes, date changes, choose your weapon restrictions, fee increases, and other creative accounting has helped the herd. SO WHY DO WE KEEP ON PUSHING FOR MORE OF IT? Everyone thought in the late 80's that choose your weapon would fix the herd. We've seen that change and a lot more. Is the herd any better? If so, why are there more complaints now?
I think it stinks that SFW has more weight to achieve policy than our state agency. If we aren't going to let DWR run the show we should stop paying for them and just let SFW take over.
I would expect this mentality from anti hunting groups. I would expect hunters to think of ways to grow a herd other than getting more guys just like us out of the field. If you think that the only way to grow a herd is to limit hunting and that is your primary goal, then stop hunting!!!
Nobody really seems to realize if you want to grow a herd fawn survival must exceed all the mature deer that were killed in a given year. There is far more to this than the general season buck harvest if you take time to think about it.
Nobody really seems to have the conclusion that all the drastic tag cutting, boundary changes, date changes, choose your weapon restrictions, fee increases, and other creative accounting has helped the herd. SO WHY DO WE KEEP ON PUSHING FOR MORE OF IT? Everyone thought in the late 80's that choose your weapon would fix the herd. We've seen that change and a lot more. Is the herd any better? If so, why are there more complaints now?
I think it stinks that SFW has more weight to achieve policy than our state agency. If we aren't going to let DWR run the show we should stop paying for them and just let SFW take over.
S
SMELLYBUCK
Guest
Cannonball,
If they herds are decreasing, why are so many guys saying the 5 day hunt has been a smashing success?
If they herds are decreasing, why are so many guys saying the 5 day hunt has been a smashing success?
I am in favor of the five day hunt. I know that parts of the Northern Region definitely need help in any way that they can get it, that is why the archery got shortened. I am going to school at USU studying wildlife science, and I would rather drive six hours to hunt in the southern region in my old stomping grounds where I grew up than waist another summer hiking my butt off on the Cache units only to see one half decent 4x3. I got a 20" 4x4 in one hour with my bow down south, without scouting and it was the 11th buck that I saw that morning.
I am a bow hunter and I love the five day, because the next year there are a few more larger deer.
I do agree that there are a lot of factors not just the days hunted, but drought, tags, money, time, employment, school, etc., that go into this.
I am glad that SFW drove this bus this year, I like the idea. I went to the Northern RAC and Anis was not sold on the idea, but you still have to listen to what the people want sometimes. This is one great example of the board listening. I know that most people in the southern and southeastern units are in favor of the five day hunt. I do like that youth get four extra days!
But what do I know, I love to bowhunt!
Dillon
I am a bow hunter and I love the five day, because the next year there are a few more larger deer.
I do agree that there are a lot of factors not just the days hunted, but drought, tags, money, time, employment, school, etc., that go into this.
I am glad that SFW drove this bus this year, I like the idea. I went to the Northern RAC and Anis was not sold on the idea, but you still have to listen to what the people want sometimes. This is one great example of the board listening. I know that most people in the southern and southeastern units are in favor of the five day hunt. I do like that youth get four extra days!
But what do I know, I love to bowhunt!
Dillon
longshooter338
Active Member
- Messages
- 833
SMELLYBUCK.Let me just say your ideas and attitude smell like shat you need to decide wether you are a sportsman or a killer which equils to give and take or just plain take, take ,take, it also sounds like your shat job allows you no time to hunt so you want more time for you!!!have you ever heard of carrying capacity it equils to a # of deer a unit can hold and sustain growing fawns is a great idea if we had the carying capacities to cary the heards on these units creating winter range is one of the answers for instance sfw gave the dwr a check in october 2009 for $279,672.83 for winter range development in so utah 500,000 acres to be exact so when you say we should let the dwr do their thing their broke arses cant manage money or wildlife so the public has to step in and help them so instead of bitching about sfw you aught to be jumping on board with all your extra vacation days you dont have and help out!!!
treedagain
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,508
hilltop, you hit the nail on the head.....cut back the days on our cwmu's....pick ANY piece of property in the state and have 2 months to hunt....give me a break....if it is summer range you hunt them in sept, if transition late sept to mid oct, if winter or rut hunt nov.....they get a shot at the deer for TWO MONTHS..
Utah keeps dissappointing hunting enthusists over and over while the answers are all around them. No other states are hunting units as big as Utah is.
I have written several letters to multiple people in power. I give up trying. I will continue to hunt Utah because it is my home state and its another trip I can take with my family, but it is definitely my last choice for a general tag verses Idaho, and Wyoming.
Do you guys think the DWR may be doing this to get a huge acceptance for their 2011 plans(2 seasons deer/elk)?
I have written several letters to multiple people in power. I give up trying. I will continue to hunt Utah because it is my home state and its another trip I can take with my family, but it is definitely my last choice for a general tag verses Idaho, and Wyoming.
Do you guys think the DWR may be doing this to get a huge acceptance for their 2011 plans(2 seasons deer/elk)?
rancher05
Active Member
- Messages
- 212
I have to admit that I didn't read all of the posts, but I did read quite a bit. so sorry if I re-ask a question. I have a suggestion that will probably make the archery hunters mad, and yes I have archery hunted in the past. so, if we are going to try and save some deer why can't we have the archery hunt go from a 28 day hunt to a 21 or 17 day hunt. I know a lot of people who wound deer and can't find them. I have also came across many bucks myself who died from an archery hunter that wasn't recovered. shortening the archery season would save A LOT more deer. and I suggest to stop the extended archery season. I am all for the 5 day rifle hunt.
Castnshoot
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,111
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-09 AT 05:36PM (MST)[p]Sell a tag for 4 points or better for the regular price.
Three point or better tag. $20.00 extra.
Any buck tag. $75.00 extra.
Any extra moneys made from the meat hunters tags to go 1/2 for enforcement and and 1/2 to herd enhancement.
Three point or better tag. $20.00 extra.
Any buck tag. $75.00 extra.
Any extra moneys made from the meat hunters tags to go 1/2 for enforcement and and 1/2 to herd enhancement.
Different prices isn't a bad idea. The DWR should really like it.$$$
Why wont the DWR at least try pont restrictions in a couple areas?
Why wont the DWR at least try limiting tag numbers in a couple management areas?
If they try it they will either shut alot of people up, or see that it works.
Just my opinion. Good topic.
Why wont the DWR at least try pont restrictions in a couple areas?
Why wont the DWR at least try limiting tag numbers in a couple management areas?
If they try it they will either shut alot of people up, or see that it works.
Just my opinion. Good topic.
Spotit1st where is my money going? Last I checked all our money goes to the state and thats not my point! I know we need the money, but who is getting the reward the guy who has the money...they get to hunt good units for their money or they wouldn't pay that kind of money. Make it so they have to try or go without a deer, that is hunting. Northern Utah is hurting and they need to do something. I hunt it every year and pass up two points to let them get bigger, then the next guy comes along and fills his tag. Try a 3 point or better! They should give them a chance to lose their spots before they are dead! It works that way with elk, why not try it with deer?
Northern could hold a lot of good bucks and they where starting to come back until we had a couple of bad winters. I would go for four point or better. I know people want to get a deer every year but it would be worth it to go without a few years and wait for the population to grow. Then you will see 3 and 4 points running around instead of spikes and 2 points.
I can't wait for my boys to hunt and take their first deer...how much better would it be if they knew they had a chance at a 4 point instead of a spike!
That is my point...take it for what its worth!
Northern could hold a lot of good bucks and they where starting to come back until we had a couple of bad winters. I would go for four point or better. I know people want to get a deer every year but it would be worth it to go without a few years and wait for the population to grow. Then you will see 3 and 4 points running around instead of spikes and 2 points.
I can't wait for my boys to hunt and take their first deer...how much better would it be if they knew they had a chance at a 4 point instead of a spike!
That is my point...take it for what its worth!
S
SMELLYBUCK
Guest
ls338,
You're right, I'm not a sportsman. I think hunting for "sport" is an insult to nature, truth be known. I usually leave my trophey hunter brothers alone as long as they do the same for me. I hunt to get out. If I kill something, I use it for food, so antler size for me is just a bonus, not the point. The day deer hunting becomes 100% sport is the day I unite my voice with anti hunters, so kick me out of the clan if you wish.
I'm plenty aware of carrying capacity. Few parts of the state exceed it. I don't think a $279,000 donation should give anyone the authority to mandate the length of the season.
Just answer my main question. If all the restrictions over the past 20 years have been so great, why is there so much dissatisfaction?
Other than that, you can ram your SFW attitute and personal attacks.
You're right, I'm not a sportsman. I think hunting for "sport" is an insult to nature, truth be known. I usually leave my trophey hunter brothers alone as long as they do the same for me. I hunt to get out. If I kill something, I use it for food, so antler size for me is just a bonus, not the point. The day deer hunting becomes 100% sport is the day I unite my voice with anti hunters, so kick me out of the clan if you wish.
I'm plenty aware of carrying capacity. Few parts of the state exceed it. I don't think a $279,000 donation should give anyone the authority to mandate the length of the season.
Just answer my main question. If all the restrictions over the past 20 years have been so great, why is there so much dissatisfaction?
Other than that, you can ram your SFW attitute and personal attacks.
H
Hornhog2
Guest
I agree with rancher05. I too don't want to make archery hunters mad, but why is that hunt darn near a month long? Tons of stories of wounded and unrecovered animals. Maybe shortening it a little would help?
I still believe the answer is to micro-manage the herds. Break the units up into smaller ones and manage them as needed. If one warrants a 9 day rifle hunt, do it. If one is struggling, cut tag numbers back and have a 4 day rifle hunt. I don't know, I probably sound dumb but it seems like a good idea to me. But if we're to stick with the way it is, my vote goes for a 5 day hunt.
I still believe the answer is to micro-manage the herds. Break the units up into smaller ones and manage them as needed. If one warrants a 9 day rifle hunt, do it. If one is struggling, cut tag numbers back and have a 4 day rifle hunt. I don't know, I probably sound dumb but it seems like a good idea to me. But if we're to stick with the way it is, my vote goes for a 5 day hunt.
J
J22sting
Guest
Oakbrush
If it is all about the deer and we use the same logic that those for the five day hunt are using (shortened season would decrease the amount of bucks killed). Could we not use the same logic on both the muzzleloader and archery hunts? Les time in the field would mean more bucks make it through.
The fact is the rifle deer hunters are the only group that is sacrificing for the "good" of the deer. Why not have all three sacrifice to increase the herds?
If it is all about the deer and we use the same logic that those for the five day hunt are using (shortened season would decrease the amount of bucks killed). Could we not use the same logic on both the muzzleloader and archery hunts? Les time in the field would mean more bucks make it through.
The fact is the rifle deer hunters are the only group that is sacrificing for the "good" of the deer. Why not have all three sacrifice to increase the herds?
longshooter338
Active Member
- Messages
- 833
SMELLY, Dube you need a serious education i said a sportsman not a trophy hunter any DA can kill a yearling buck all im saying is let them grow up if your so concernen about feeding your family a 4-5 year old would give you twice the meat dont misunderstand me i kill i just choose to kill MATURE ANIMALS and nobody said sfw's donation gave them any authority just a voice and as far as your 20 years of restrictions well buck up little camper and get it off your chest!!!
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,431
What happened to the Deer Committee?
Robb
Robb
BrowningRage
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,435
Foreman 4x4 said... "Seriously, who's driving the bus?..."
According to the article, Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife are driving the bus... The board acted on their recommendation
Apparently they have better insight than the DWR...? What happens when the special interest group lobbying the Board is not friendly to sportsmen- and don't be naive in thinking it can't happen. Obviously the Board can be bought...
According to the article, Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife are driving the bus... The board acted on their recommendation
Apparently they have better insight than the DWR...? What happens when the special interest group lobbying the Board is not friendly to sportsmen- and don't be naive in thinking it can't happen. Obviously the Board can be bought...
