City Creek Closed to Rifle and Muzzleloader

R

Rackster

Active Member
Messages
309
The Board voted to shutdown City Creek Canyon along with Emigration Canyon to rifle and Muzzleloader hunting, making these areas archery only.

Just curious if anyone would have been apposed to this had they had the chance to comment.
 
>Thats good news, there is some
>nice country back there.

SH*T! That completely sucks donkey balls. Archery hunters already have the entire southern half of the SLC front all to themselves. All that is going to do is push tons more hunters up to the Bountiful/Farmington area.
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I missed the meetings this year. What was their reasoning for the closure? I am guessing proximity to homes?? I hate to see loss of opportunity for any weapon type. If it is for safety reasons then I am okay with it. If they had no valid reason then I do not support it even though it benefits me as a bowhunter.
 
I bow hunt that area every year so this change will beneift me however, I am opposed to them closing it. Less opportuity to hunt is almost never a good thing.
 
Do you have proof of that? Meeting minutes, links to Web Sites, etc. I have searched through the meeting minutes published on the DWR's Web Site and they mention nothing of the sort, other than hunters would need to stay out of the cabin zone areas in and around emigration canyon (no mention of City Creek or East Canyon).

As far as closing the area to rifle hunting, that would be great! Currently, it's the only area left open to rifle hunting in SL County and with all of the homes being built there it makes absolutely no sense to continue allowing rifle hunters simply for safety reasons.

I drove up Emigration today just to see it and it was amazing how much development has taken place in just the last few years.
 
Posters 2, 3, & 4, this is just another reason to pick up a bow and then not only could you continue to hunt your spot, but you could hunt it for 4 months (including november), plus just think of how much better an already good spot will be without the cannons....just something to chew on this winter while you're contemplating what to do next year.
 
I do bow hunt it, have been for years. But for a deticated hunter it kinda bums me out. Should be a lot more nice bucks.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-09 AT 02:14PM (MST)[p]That's really interesting. I went to a RAC meeting and do not recall that discussion, either. In fact, I haven't heard of any disputes in either City Creek or Emigration(other than ORV abuses), nor a discussion regarding making the rest of the Front archery only.

Considering that City Creek is privately owned by the City of Salt Lake, I wonder where the Board feels it has the authority to change the rules without discussion with the owner.

I have it first hand that Watershed had no input on this and no idea it was coming, they are a bit confused right now.

Emigration has access and house issues, always has, so that one doesn't surprise me.

Velly velly itevestingk.

Pred
 
that actually kind of sucks for me. I was planning on rifle hunting there next year.

On the other hand it could also take some pressure off other bow only areas which is good for me. Now there will be more areas with monster bucks.

I had a friend that was closing the distance on a 4 point buck this year and a dude shot over his head with a rifle and killed the buck right out from under him. The rifle shot was around 500 yards away. The general rifle hunt was over so my buddies guard went way up. Turns out this guy had a handy cap tag so he could hunt a longer season. he however was not 3 miles up the cannyon and didnt have the city creek permit required to hunt with a rifle in that area. So to me it sounds like poaching.

to me I actually cant see how anyone can get a handicap tag if they are under 30 and can hike in away from the roads just like anyone else. To me it sounds like abuse of the system.

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Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
I think it is GAY!!! Not only does it take away opportunity for people who like to hunt it the way they have with rifle or smoke pole but if they want to continue to hunt the same area now they have to Bow hunt it adding more people and pressure during one hunt instead of spreading it out! Just my two cents.



www.brokentine.blogspot.com
 
I think it is a great idea and a smart move. Just think about how many "TREE HUGGERS" and other D.B's compain about deer hunters and all the problems we cause. I can see already a careless rifle hunter hitting a house or shooting to close to a cabin or house and then soon they will try to close down all areas with a house or cabin within x amount of miles. I view it as a precaution. I say GOOD CALL!
 
When I read this information in the SLC TRIB I was so shocked and bummed out. My dad has been hunting city creek for years, up high, away from the power plant and the hikers. Im 20 years old and 3 out of 4 deer that I have taken in my life have come from this area. I am a dedicated hunter so I will still be able to hunt the area but still not much of a consolation prize.
I dont really see the reason to make city creek archery only because it really does not effect any of the general public like the central wasatch does. There are little to no hiking trails in the area, it is very romote, So why are they shutting it down to the rifle hunters and as of the other day, rifle hunting is only going to happen days a year anyway.
Another thought, This area was already included in the extended archery area so its really not helping the archery hunters. I think having archery only areas are great and offer lots of hunter oppertunity, but these areas were not made to grow huge bucks. They were made because of the increasing number of non hunters in the mountains.
I have not been able to find a boundry map anywere so this posting might be to soon but I just hope that they would have collaborated with that water department in the decision because they are the ones that know the most about the canyon.
-steven clark
 
American Fork Canyon in Utah County is going to be archery only soon as well, likely all the way to Provo Canyon, and back to the Wasatch County line. Trust me, its coming.
 
Just a litte more info:

This did'nt come up in any RAC meeting, but was discussed and passed at the Board meeting. Salt Lake County had recently repealled an ordinance that prohibitted shooting within 1 mile of any structure. Because of that ordinance being repealled, the President of the Emigration Canyon Landowners Association came to the Wildlife Board to ask for some boundary that would protect home owners in Emmigration Canyon from rifle and muzzleloader hunters hunting too close to their homes. The Board, then decided to extend the "archery only area" to the Salt Lake Davis County Line, excluding a CWMU that falls within the boundary. Therefore this boundary unnecessarily includes City Creek Canyon. As I understand it, Parleys and Lambs would be included in this as well, but I'm not positive.....havn't double checked it on Parleys and Lambs.

The concern from the Emmigration Canyon Landowners Association could have been taken care by just closing Emmigration canyon to rifle and muzzle hunting. Since the Salt Lake Davis County Line runs along the top of a ridge (Ridge Dividing City Creek and Muellar Park), it may have been just as easy to put the boundary on the ridge dividing City Creek and Emmigration, and thus leaving City Creek open. Could have done the same to the southern boundary (use the ridgetop).

I was just interested to see how many people this may have affected negatively or positively, and if there was anyone bent out of shape that they did not have the opportunity to see a proposal for this and an opportunity to comment on it.
 
Does anyone know if the area includes the ridgeline from the top of Parleys to Big Mountain pass above Little Dell, Little Hatch and Clear Creek canyons? How about Little Mountian and Killyons canyon east of the Pinecrest homes?

If they include all the country east of RT 65 to the Summit County boarder, it will become one of the premiere mule deer hunts in the world.

As a selfish archer, I'd call this an incredible move. If I were a landowner on the east bench of Salt Lake, I'd call it a nightmare, especially if your wives like to do any gardening :)

Cheers,
Pete
 
kind of a double edge sword. make it harder so less people will hunt it, but make it harder so more deer will die in the field by archers who dont spend enough time practicing.

I'm not picking on all string gunners, I'm saying that I see more deer and elk every year with arrows in them than when I was younger. In fact i dont thin I ever saw one till about 10 years ago and now I see them every year.

If they are going to put everything into archery they need to require people take a course on shooting a sting gun and go through some kind of qualification. I dont like that idea, but i like less the idea of telling more guys to go drop a grand on the latest quick short limb bow and go start throwing arrows around at big game animals. . .
 
Here is a case of left wing home owners making their will known, and winning! Hoe many people have actually been in danger of being shot while in their home in Emigration? Do houses have bullet holes in them? No! But I do know that every time I run into one of those losers on the trail with their 5 dogs, they give me a big old scowl and act like I'm going to kill them.....


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>kind of a double edge sword.
> make it harder so
>less people will hunt it,
>but make it harder so
>more deer will die in
>the field by archers who
>dont spend enough time practicing.
>
>
>I'm not picking on all string
>gunners, I'm saying that I
>see more deer and elk
>every year with arrows in
>them than when I was
>younger. In fact i
>dont thin I ever saw
>one till about 10 years
>ago and now I see
>them every year.
>
>If they are going to put
>everything into archery they need
>to require people take a
>course on shooting a sting
>gun and go through some
>kind of qualification. I
>dont like that idea, but
>i like less the idea
>of telling more guys to
>go drop a grand on
>the latest quick short limb
>bow and go start throwing
>arrows around at big game
>animals. . .
>
>


REALLY?


--I'm looking for a man... who calls himself Bucho! That's all! And you had to do it, the hard way!--
 
Pick up some archery tackle fellas!!

If I were a rifle hunter I wouldn't be happy...as a bowhunter I'm indifferent. I could always hunt these areas before, so no real change. There might be a few more bucks running around.

I assume this was for safety reasons, real or imagined.
 
I can kind of understand their decision. On the friday after thanksgiving there were three people with rifles hunting below the red cliffs(I figure there was a cow elk hunt that covered the area). They were shooting over the top of the ridge into north canyon with no idea where the bullets would land. Then they started shooting straight down the ridge towards me and the valley, and finally finished with a couple shots down into the bottom of city creek. I later found out that they had a group of elk run by them out of North canyon and in to the bottom of city creek. These guys were not checking their background before they shot. In hunter safety fifteen years ago for me that was one of the first things they taught us was know what is behind our target and not to shoot over ridges because you don't know what might be on the other side. I know this was only a couple people but it only takes a few to ruin it for many.
 
I think that their really needs to be some action taken to get this changed back to the way it was.

I think stoping firearm hunting in emigration canyon has been long over due but cause its really hard to get one mile from a building anywhere in that canyon. This canyon is full of houses and people and it would be best to make this an achery only area.

City creek on the other hand is a completly different story. The only building in the canyon is the gaurd station at the bottom and the water treatment plant a few miles up from that. In order to rifle hunt city creek you have to get a permit from the water department and it has been this way forever. Rifle hunting has not been allowed below north canyon for many years. Above north canyon is nothing but rugged wilderness. No homes or buildings, the great westen trail at the top which has very little foot traffic.

So why shut it down to rifle hunting? Why not place the boundry at the ridgeline between City Creek and Emegration? I am going to try and see who I can talk to at the state because all this is doing is restricing hunting even more and taking away a quality hunting experience.
 
I've hunted this area for 40 years from the early 60's with my dad
till now. The closing of Emigration was going to happen some day. However to close any areas north of Emigration is not called for as yet. Red Butte canyon, Dry canyon and city creek can still be hunted safely. The only area in these three canyons where there is a problem with non-hunters is along the shoreline trail from the bottom of Dry canyon till it tops out on U Mountain. There are thousands of acres still open to safely use rifles. Red Butte is closed by the Forest service and could be opened to a walk in hunt with out any problems.There is no real reason to keep this canyon closed.
I know for a fact this canyon is hunted anyway. They could run the boundry line down the top of the north ridge of Emigration
and Red Butte to the ridge top of Pine crest to Little Mountain.
If there was a real safety concern I would be all for this change
but there isn't one.
 
When the Emmigration Homeowners Assoc. made their presentation to the Central RAC , they never ask for any closure to rifle hunting, just education and enforcement of the safety zone around dwellings. I too am surprised that the Wildlife Board voted to close it. I think that it was just easier to close it than have to do extra education and law enforcement.
 
I just had a good friend tell me that when he spoke the the Utah Fish and Game about where the boundry would be, he was told that they decided to close all of Salt Lake County up there! As an archery hunter I must say that im excited but shocked they would do it!
 
So that means up Little dell and behind the Golf course also.
Guess that means I look for a new area. CRAP!!!!!! There goes my cow elk hunt next year, the moose tag I've been hoping for the last 8 years.
Sorry guys if I invade your area not my fault.
 
I just listened to the recording of the meeting where the Emigration issue was brought up. I cannot believe they went from
the Township committee of the canyon asking for enforcement and training of the rules in the canyon and that they were against the change to Salt lake county reg on how far you can legally shoot a firearm (change is from 1 mile to 600 yards)to closing all of Salt Lake county east of I15 to all rifle hunting. How they made that jump is beyond me. They were so cavalier about it when asked just how many it might effect and no one had an answer the statement is made well they can take up a bow.
If they handle all our hunts this way we all are in trouble.
 
We all knew this decision was inevitable in time, but for those that rifle hunt these areas it has to be crushing.

For years I hunted the Bookcliffs for both bear and deer. In 1990 they quit selling over the counter bear tags and soon thereafter closed down the bear hunt for a few years and in all those years I haven't been able to get a tag to hunt bear there. ---But I have still bear hunted most years!

Not long after that time they closed the deer hunt and later opened it up as a limited entry unit. I used to backpack into the road-less area every year to hunt mule deer. I haven't been able to draw a permit in the Books since they closed it, so I feel the pain and anger many of you feel.

But just as the closing of the Bookcliffs deer hunt and later opening it as a limited entry unit was bound to happen at some point, so was the closing of the subject areas to rifle hunting. Most of Salt Lake County is just too close to too many people, homes, cars, freeways, highways, cabins, etc. It was just a matter of time until this happened. As hard as it is to swallow for those of you who rifle hunt this area, it can and will open new opportunities if you will take advantage of it.

For some of you it may be time to pick up a bow, learn to shoot it well and learn how to hunt that area in a new way. If you will do that your season has just been extended from 5 days to over 3 months. For others who choose to stay with the rifle, it can be an opportunity to learn and discover an even better area, if you will pay your dues. And for a few it will be a time to just cry, ##### and moan. Hopefully there won't be too many of those.

Too all of us, it is a sign of things to come. We have too many people, in too little space, with too many roads and too much development. This is not the first and won't be last. Make the best of it.

My dad always used to tell me when I was young, "It's not what happens to you in life that really matters----it's what you choose to do with it." Make the best of it. That's exactly what I plan to do! I plan to make lemonade out of the lemon.

Have a good one. BB
 
I love all the high and mighty bow hunters coming on here and telling us rifle hunters to suck it up, go spend of bunch of money on equipment, learn to shoot, etc, etc. Its OK to them if they shut down a hunt, just as long as they shut down a rifle hunt, and make it archer only. What would they be saying if the entire front was closed down to ALL hunting? I doubt they would be excited to go learn a new area, and pay their dues somewhere else.....





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257 Tony,
Just like you would probably be singing a different tune if you lived in close proximity to city creek or immigration (especially immigration). Imagine having breakfast in your kitchen hearing gun shots & bullet ricochets as you're mowing your lawn & your kids are swinging on the swing set. Give me one GOOD reason to shut down the front to archery hunting as long as the existing laws that are in place are followed. High and mighty....give me a break!
 
>I love all the high and
>mighty bow hunters coming on
>here and telling us rifle
>hunters to suck it up,
>go spend of bunch of
>money on equipment, learn to
>shoot, etc, etc. Its OK
>to them if they shut
>down a hunt, just as
>long as they shut down
>a rifle hunt, and make
>it archer only. What would
>they be saying if the
>entire front was closed down
>to ALL hunting? I doubt
>they would be excited to
>go learn a new area,
>and pay their dues somewhere
>else.....
>


Ha, ha...easy man! Archery hunters aren't being "high and mighty" when suggesting to try bowhunting, we're simply offering a possible alternative to not hunting your favorite areas at all!

It's not like bowhunters put this closure in place as part of some elaborate scheme to help bow companies sell more bows! :)

Best of luck with whatever you choose!
 
EXACTLY backinthegame! I can understand the arguement regarding city creek alot more than immigration-that place is crawling with people. Still though...even 9 miles up in city creek, bullets can travel a LONG ways when they don't hit their mark.
 
"backinthegame"

Actually, at the Wildlife Board Meeting it was the Utah Bowmans Association (UBA) that suggested turning this area into archery only as a solution the the Emigration Landowneres Association or Townships, whatever they're called. The Board just went along with it, without a lot of thought as to how this may impact rifle and muzzleloader hunters. There were 2 members of the Board that voted against, because they thought they needed more info from the public.

So, although UBA did not actually put this additional archery only area in place (that was the Boards doing), they were certainly heavily involoved with it or at least the instigator in the idea.
 
>257 Tony,
>Just like you would probably be
>singing a different tune if
>you lived in close proximity
>to city creek or immigration
>(especially immigration). Imagine having breakfast
>in your kitchen hearing gun
>shots & bullet ricochets as
>you're mowing your lawn &
>your kids are swinging on
>the swing set. Give me
>one GOOD reason to shut
>down the front to archery
>hunting as long as the
>existing laws that are in
>place are followed. High and
>mighty....give me a break!

You sound just like the people that bought land up by the "B" in Bountiful, then ##### and moan when they can hear the gun range. If only they had known it was there in first place. Bow hunters break the law also, so get off that high horse before you fall off. Every year we hear about some lowlife shooting a Buck in somebodies backyard.

All I'm saying is, you guys would be the ones complaining if they made the entire front rifle only......
2a0fcsk.gif
 
One more thing. If they can shut down our rifle hunt with no notice, and no hunter input, they sure as hell can shut down your precious bowhunt in the same manner, you should be as pissed as I am.


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Well guys...Rackster and 257Tony...

We've all got to follow regulations, we don't have to agree with them, but we've got to follow them.

If they shut down the Wasatch Extended archery stuff then I guess I'd have to get my hunting done early in the year, or hunt somewhere else. Might not be my first choice, but hell, I'd like to drive 120 mph down I-15 but "they" won't let me...so I deal with it. :)

I don't think ANY bowhunter in this thread is being disrespectful when making a SUGGESTION to try bowhunting in order to continue hunting your favorite areas.

I also would DOUBT that UBA suggested "solving" the problem of the Emigration Township (whatever that problem is) with the intent of: "Oh yeah fellas...now we've got the whole canyon to ourselves!!" I guess it's possible...but I doubt it.

Again, best of luck with whatever you guys choose to do. I'm sorry they closed your favorite area. I, along with the other bowhunters in this thread, were simply offering a SUGGESTION for a solution to your problem. You don't have to follow it.
 
OK here is how this deal was explained to me.
The Emigration Canyon HOA made a request at the central RAC as Nebo said. Just education and no closure. Being involved with
our rep at the RAC meeting suggested that the bowhunting groups be part of the solution and not the problem. We offered our access point maps on the www.bowhuntersofutah.net website to be used in any type of an educational setting.

On to the wildlife Board MTG. And a little background needs to be explained here. Most time if a group ask's for or requests anything that would take away from another group it almost never flies. Certain members of the WB have a huge problem with this type of proposal / request.

So the HOA pushed this deal through on their own. I can speak for BOU in telling you that the HOA did not want a closure and neither did UBA. This was the Wildlife Boards decision.

Thanks
Gordy Bell
 
I don't know SW. The general archery deer tag is almost a draw only tag as it is the last couple of years. The OTC left over tags are already gone before the opener. There is also a movement by some folks to make it a LE draw to limit the pressure.

If rifle hunting opportunity keeps getting hit like this we'll see massive increases in archery applications. I can easily see it in the near future.

Cheers,
Pete
 
Pete the reason it is selling out faster is because people are putting it as their third choice when they don't get their first choice le, second choice rifle, last choice archery. if you plan on waiting in line you wont get a tag. if you plan on putting in as a third choice you might not get a tag. However if you put in as your second choice you will draw the tag for sometime.

it would be assinine to make it a le unit. you cant keep the deer from going out of control as it is. the only thing that keeps them from going over objective is the winter kills.

Pete you know I hunted the front this year for over 20 days I scouted it for probably another 20 days. You were with me on several occations! In those 40 days I saw about 10 guys total. I'm not buying the bullsheit the front is overcrowded crap. People need to quit whining, quit blaming other people for their lack of success. We don't need to make the front a POS LE unit.

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
besides i don't think there are two many rifle hunters that would purchase a bow, have the mental tuffness to hit those hills without a wheeler, come within inches and not get a shot, only to have to do it all over again and again. They also don't posses the skills to get it done. LOL

so as of right now I'm not worried.
 
"WileyWapati"

Look, I am indifferent on this. However, you need to be corrected. THE "UBA" DID PUSH FOR THE CLOSURE. THE "UBA" REPRESENTATIVE AT THE BOARD MEETING MADE THE SUGGESTION TO MAKE IT AN "ARCHERY ONLY" AREA. That is why the Board started discussing an "archery only" area. Regrdless of what you have been told, that is the fact. I was at the Board meeting and I know first hand what went down and by whom. I do realize that UBA was offering that as a solution. However, when the Board was talking about how big the boundary was going to be, UBA did not step up and say "Ya know, the "archery only" area doesn't need to be that big.........it can be smaller......just make the boundary Emigratin Canyon and the Home Owners Association problem would be solved".

As I said I am indiferent on this, but you needed to be corrected. The UBA did push for this. If you question what I am saying, then go the Wildlife Board Meeting Minutes and the audio. Again, I was there, and heard it first hand.
 
"WileyWapati"

One other correction.

The Emigration Canyon Homeowners Association or Township, whichever they are called, DID NOT at any time during the Board meeting suggest that the area be an "archery only" area. They simply asked the board to consider making a "no hunting" boundary in Emigration Canyon to protect their homes and maintain their safety. Again, the suggestion to make it "archery only" came from UBA. However I will acknowledge that it was the Boards decision, and yes there were two members of the Board uncomfortable with this decision.........they felt they needed more input from the public before they closed an area that large to rifle and muzzleloading....and they did vote against it. But the majority ruled, and it passed.
 
>besides i don't think there are
>two many rifle hunters that
>would purchase a bow, have
>the mental tuffness to hit
>those hills without a wheeler,
>come within inches and not
>get a shot, only to
>have to do it all
>over again and again. They
>also don't posses the skills
>to get it done. LOL
>
>
>so as of right now I'm
>not worried.

I thought you guys said bow hunter weren't high and mighty?

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I have hunted Salt Lake Conty for years and have enjoyed hunting an area with a great deer population. There are ALOT of areas within SL Co. that are far away from any homes that have been built such as the top of East Canyon and City Creek most of Parleys above and below the Sheriff's Office Range. I can understand closing off parts where homes have been built but closing all of it makes NO sense. I would like to see if there are any sportsman who would like to help me trying to fight this.
 
it sounds to me like the homeowners wanted to shut it down to hunting.

Then the way rackster explains it UBA steped up and said lets not close it down lets try this instead! It has worked here! And wa la we now have an expanded bow only area.

That to me is a hell of a lot better then it being closed down to everyone.

to me its a loose, win I was going to hunt it with a rifle next year. now I cant but I can still hunt it with a bow and the deer will now get some age and the quality will go up.

to rackster its a loose loose, he wont hunt with a bow

to the tree huger its a loose loose, they wanted it shut all the way down.


Rackster can spin it however he wants we all know UBA is in bed with Hillary, Barbra and Obama. They like the shaft and are going to put it to the poor rifle hunters. The wildlife board is also in bed with UBA so is SFW. All these great organizations just want to stick it the the guys they represent just for kicks!


4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
>>besides i don't think there are
>>two many rifle hunters that
>>would purchase a bow, have
>>the mental tuffness to hit
>>those hills without a wheeler,
>>come within inches and not
>>get a shot, only to
>>have to do it all
>>over again and again. They
>>also don't posses the skills
>>to get it done. LOL
>>
>>
>>so as of right now I'm
>>not worried.
>
>I thought you guys said bow
>hunter weren't high and mighty?


The rest of the bow hunters aren't But I am. I'm the real deal. Ill get it done. In fact I can hunt the next 6 years and not kill a single deer and still have a 50 percent success rate. LOL
I wont blame anyone for my lack of success except myself.
Tony you can hate me for being a bow hunter. You can spin these threads all you want. You can demonize the bow hunter for your lack of success. I'm just not buying into the BS your selling!

Don't hate the player hate the game!


4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
I think closing down some of Emigration Canyon where the houses are located makes sense but closing down the top of East Canyon and City Creek makes no sence what so ever. How about above the golf course no houses there either in East Canyon. Know the area before you make such a ignorant statement.
 
"swbuckmaster"

On the contrary as I said before, if you care to read, I am indifferent about this. So to me, I am not losing a thing, actually it could be a win for me. And to put you straight, I hunt this area with a bow on the extended archery. I have hunted this area with a rifle, but it has been over 15 years ago, and I had no plans to hunt it with a rifle or muzzleloader in the future.

Sorry, to get your "dander" up, but it was UBA that made the suggestion to the Board. WileyWapiti made some incorrect statements about that, and I thought it needed to be corrected.

As I have stated in this thread, it is the process that I am concerned about, not UBA. The "Board" did not get any input from the public on this.
 
Rack you might be mad at the process but you are turning your anger to the guys that look out for you as a bowhunter so I would suggest you don't bite the hand that feeds you so to speak!

This whole thing could have turned out to be a sham everyone could have lost a huge chunk to the homeowners or treehuggers. This didn't happen! One hunting group stood up and presented a plan to appease the homeowners/treehuggers. The plan was accepted!

So as trophy hunters we should be happy because we will have an area that will produce more 190 plus bucks and huge bulls!

As an adaptable hunter "meaning a rifle guy that is not affraid to pick up a bow" or a bow hunter we now can have a unit that is bigger and we can hunt it for 4 months a year with an over the counter tag.

As a rifle hunter you will have to go somewhere else. you will have to go to an already crowded area, hunt where there are piss poor deer. It will suck. This sucks every time it happens. This one of the reasons i quit hunting for almost 10 years in Utah. I hated the way Utah went to Le units, I hated the way you had to choose a weapon. I hated the way all I ever saw was orange. So I picked up fishing instead. The only real looser was ME! I lost out on 10 years of bonus points in the oil and le games. I didn't want to play by their rules. I lost! I wont do that again. I love hunting to much to ever do that again!

So to the rifle hunters that hunted this area I'm sorry for what has happened to you. Don't let the game win. Pick up a bow and start hunting that area. I guarantee if you hunted it before you will have a leg up on any other guy that wanders in there. If you don't want the game to win and know nothing about bows you can pm me. Ill spend some time teaching you the ropes. Ill show you how to get the bow in tip top shape. The rest will be up to you.

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
fellas we as hunters need to quit pointing the finger at each other. we are making it to easy for the treehuggers get what they want.

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Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
"swbuckmaster"

I'm sorry, but comments like yours is what ticks the rifle hunters off. Hence comments like "high & mighty". That is the way you present yourself. As for biting off the hand that feeds me......."give me a break". UBA is full of people who present themselves just like you have, and even though I bow hunt, I want no part of it.

You yourself say we need to quit pointing the finger, well then step up to the plate. Lets see you defend opportunity for rifle hunters......it could have been done at the last Board meeting. The archery only area did not have to encompass as much area as it did. If UBA, would have stepped up and argued for the rifle hunters on this or any other issue, I might have gained some respect for UBA. But as it stands, you and others like you, think yours is the only way. Either take up bow hunting or hit the road.

In time your opportunity for bow hunting is going to be hit. Three members of the Board threatened this for next year. Your season, and my season for bow hunting, may be cut just like the rifle hunters season was cut to 5 days this year.

Stick up for someone else or another group besides yourself and I and others on this forum may gain some respect for you and UBA.
 
A couple things to consider. The division can't control firearms, all they can control is where you can and can't hunt. Based on the request from Emigration Canyon HOA the Division would only be able to close it to hunting or keep it open. No Sportsman group wanted it closed. UBA stood up at the Wildlife Board Meeting with a quick suggestion to make it archery only instead of closing it entirely. UBA had not discussed this prior and did not have any hidden agenda to do away with rifle hunting. The boundarys described were very easy to define buy using the County Line and thats why they were chosen, there wasn't time to discuss in detail. People left happy after the Board Meeting regarding this subject.

Rackster, how come you didn't stand up and talk about the boundarys.
 
I was not present at the Board Meeting, but I saw the presentation given at the Central RAC by the Emigration Home Owners. They simply asked for some type of education for hunters using Emigration Canyon. They never asked for closure. They never asked for weapon selection. They did state that they were concerned with all types of hunting too close to their homes.

Now, how the Board ever made the leap to weapon restrictions is puzzling. This is a poor decision. In fact, the area in question sits within the Northern Region. Was this information ever presented to the public within the Northern Region? I doubt that the public process was followed, but the Board has been great about not following the rules they establish.
 
UBA should be thanked by hunters because this way you can now go and negotiate the boundarys instead of having to negotiate opening it back up to hunting.
 
So Packout do you think UBA had some kind of backdoor deal with the wildlife board?

I was not at the meeting so I can only speculate on how it went down. besides Im not on the UBA board, I dont know what goes on any more then any other guy on this sight.


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Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
SW- I have no idea, but I doubt it. My post was not meant to be directed to UBA or any group for that matter. I was just stating what I saw at the Central RAC and pointing out the fact that the Wildlife Board made a change which no one-- not even the Emigration Committee-- asked for at the Central RAC. Once again, the Wildlife Board has gone against the system that has been put in place.
 
>>>besides i don't think there are
>>>two many rifle hunters that
>>>would purchase a bow, have
>>>the mental tuffness to hit
>>>those hills without a wheeler,
>>>come within inches and not
>>>get a shot, only to
>>>have to do it all
>>>over again and again. They
>>>also don't posses the skills
>>>to get it done. LOL
>>>
>>>
>>>so as of right now I'm
>>>not worried.
>>
>>I thought you guys said bow
>>hunter weren't high and mighty?
>
>
>The rest of the bow hunters
>aren't But I am. I'm
>the real deal. Ill get
>it done. In fact I
>can hunt the next 6
>years and not kill a
>single deer and still have
>a 50 percent success rate.
>LOL
>I wont blame anyone for my
>lack of success except myself.
>
>Tony you can hate me for
>being a bow hunter. You
>can spin these threads all
>you want. You can demonize
>the bow hunter for your
>lack of success. I'm just
>not buying into the BS
>your selling!
>
>Don't hate the player hate the
>game!
>
>
>
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>Archery is a year round commitment!!
>

First off, I hate no one. And if I did, it wouldn't be because of their hunting weapon of choice.

Secondly, who ever said anything about my lack of success? Since 2002 I've only had one tag go unused, and my average Buck is around 168", whilst spending an average of 3 days in the field per year, and that includes my zero days of scouting!

2a0fcsk.gif
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-09 AT 09:05PM (MST)[p]I'll bet they end up tweeking the boundry to include city creek (which I think would be a good comprimise) especially if enough rifle proponents voice their dissatisfaction (which they should). Like was said earlier, tweeking boundries will be alot easier than re-opening the area entirely. I also agree that not going through "public process" cuts at the very core of a democratic society, whether it be hunting boundries or any other law that affects us as a community. I guess this is your "call to arms" rifle guy. I would support it (and I'll NEVER rifle hunt in Utah again)
 
How long until the homeowners are offended by dead deer dragged down past the houses and we shut it down period?
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I have read redbutte is off limits to hunting, does anybody know the boundries or where i can find out?
I have seen hunters in the canyon, someone told me it was a
mile each direction from the reservoir?
Does anybody know why it is closed to hunting?
 
Probably not very long 1911. Are you suggesting that making it archery only will increase those incidents of dragging dead deer past houses more-so than with rifle hunters in the mix??...or was that just a jab at in-considerate bowhunters that have done that in past on the front? Don't paint us all with that brush man! There are plenty of in-considerate hunters to go around-archery, muzz, and yes rifle. Please don't start the "which hunter group is the most considerate, ethical, and law abiding" debate-it's in poor taste! (especially on a HUNTING website)
 
People are going to complain no what, the deer are eating my flowers,elk tore down my fence,moose broke my mail box, hunter dragged a dead deer thruogh my backyard.Dont want to sound like an azz but if ya dont like it MOVE!!!
 
You can count me in on fighting this. I have a few others that want to fight this as well.

I have hunted that area for over 20 years. This is where I was introduced to hunting and became passionate about hunting. If you work in the Salt Lake valley, this is the only place that can be hunted with a rifle during the week after work.

My only hope is that if it was so easy to close the area, then is should be just as easy to re-open it.

BTW...I spoke to a DWR employee and he said the DWR was against this decision and now the conservation officers are worried about how they will manage the Elk herd. Very few if any Elk are killed by winter storms. The DWR counts on at least 50-75 cows be taken each winter by selling late season cow tags. Now that this tool has been taken away it will be an expense to manage the Elk herd rather than generate revenue.

I am a dedicated hunter and contemplated joining UBA at one time but not now and I will never support those selfish idiots with anything that has their name on it. They can suck the hind tit!
 
>Probably not very long 1911. Are
>you suggesting that making it
>archery only will increase those
>incidents of dragging dead deer
>past houses more-so than with
>rifle hunters in the mix??...or
>was that just a jab
>at in-considerate bowhunters that have
>done that in past on
>the front? Don't paint us
>all with that brush man!
>There are plenty of in-considerate
>hunters to go around-archery, muzz,
>and yes rifle. Please don't
>start the "which hunter group
>is the most considerate, ethical,
>and law abiding" debate-it's in
>poor taste! (especially on a
>HUNTING website)

Are you kidding me??? I didn't mention a thing about hunting method period. Furthermore, I didn't even mention that anyone had done anything in bad taste after harvesting an animal to warrant a legitimate issue there. I am simply pointing out that there are plenty anti hunters period who may have just got their foot in the door by restricting hunting.

I don't have a dog in the fight there be it archery, muzz, or rifle. Don't hunt there, never have. Might in the future who knows. I am simply stating it is bad ju-ju. We give an inch and historically they'll take a mile. Some will never be satisfied until is it shut down completely. All they have to do is modify the complaint from potential danger to potentially little Johnny and Sally Sue seeing a deer harvested.

You are right about it being HUNTING. My comments were directed at HUNTING and not about method. This compromise simply sets a bad precedent for hunters period regardless of method.

The historical trend seems to be limitation and not expansion of our hunting heritage and not the other way around.

Those 'suggestions' were your words, not mine. I wrote what I wrote and nothing more. We could also suggest that this new limitation implies that somehow all rifle hunters are too brain dead to keep from shooting up houses, which would be equally careless to suggest or assume. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Don't make assumptions and take offense when non has been either implied nor given.


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Red Butte is closed to all public access and hunting.
However every year I've seen between 8 and 12 hunters in the canyon and I've talked to people who hunt the back of it every year. This year there where at least three separate backpacking tents set up in the back.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-09 AT 10:10AM (MST)[p]OK here is some official information I recieved from Ernie Perkins, Vice chair of the Wildlife Board. I Also talked to a member of the Salt Lake County Water shred and recieved his opinions on the issue.

Salt Lake County is currently changing its "master plan" and this also includes a decision about discharging firearms in Salt Lake County. During the Board meeting, although they didnt seem very informed on the issue, they are now waiting on Salt Lake County to give the decision on a new firearm law.

So unfortunitly this decision is largley in the hands of a non hunting and non wildlife organization. I hope that Salt Lake county will realize that this area can be safely hunted with firearms and not shut it down to firearm hunting.

lets not turn this topic into another who's right and who's wrong. Lets try and keep to the goal of keeping public land open for the public and their differet uses
 
Steve clark you seem to be doing the right things . i spoke to ernie perkins as well. I think speaking to SL County is a great idea and a good place to start. If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.

Trent

p.s. do you know a C. Walker he hunted up the top of City Creek this year.
 
I am strictly a bowhunter and have been for the best part of 40 years. But for many years before that I rifle hunted.

I was born and raised in Wyoming and I watched my very favorite hunting areas become off limits one by one, or be ruined by the oil boom that happened their in the late 60?s and early 70?s so I feel for you guys who rifle hunt this area. I know many of you must have Dad?s, and Grand dads that have always hunted this area and most likely introduced it to you, so it has to be a bitter pill to swallow and I can relate to the pain you feel, as I went through the same thing in Wyoming and even a few areas here in Utah. It's sucks that such things happen.

I might be wrong, but I have heard through the grapevine that all of Salt Lake County is soon to be banned from the discharge of all fire arms with the exception of law enforcement and the military. I also heard that was and is the real reason the decision was made to close this area, as it would be closed as soon as that policy goes into effect anyway.

If that be the case the decision most likely will never be reversed.

I wish you well in your efforts to get this area re-opened but I doubt it will be successful. So I, along with other bowhunters welcome any of you who want to start bowhunting. There are many of us who are willing to help you get started. I can assure those that do, that down the line, the satisfaction and challenges will be worthwhile.

I believe in a few years the quality of bucks in that area we rival the bucks of any unit in the state. It can be hunted by thousands of hunters, for over three months a year and yet it will yield yearly some of the best bucks in the state. That's the bright side to an otherwise sad happening. So I encourage those that really loved to hunt that area, to continue to hunt it by means of your bow. Hopefully someday I will be able to hunt that area with some of you who do decide to switch to a bow.

One of the best decisions I ever made in my life was to become a bowhunter. It has brought me so much happiness and satisfaction through out the years, and I hear the same feelings being expressed by many others who feel the same way. So at least give it try for few years and I think you too will find something that can't be found in any other hunting method. At that point, this will be a blessing to you and not the curse it seems today.

Have a good one. BB
 
Patrolling the lower reaches of City Creek and into the Davis county side has been a NIGHTMARE for the watershed officials and law enforcement. Several rifle hunters up there have done some really stupid things over the years, such as vandalism, threats and other ridiculous things that just make me shake my head. I've had many people arrested and help Jim at the water treatment facility patrol every year. I guarantee that this has something to do with why City Creek was closed.

My experience of a good majority rifle hunters in this area has made me embarrassed to be a hunter on many occasions. We cut our own throat, but hopefully it gets more specific. I see no reason to close the upper reaches of City Creek, big mountain and the surrounding area. Give homes a 2 mile berth and call it good.

PS, start patrolling each other a little better and things like this will be less frequent.
 
the thing I have noticed is
it isnt the weapon that makes the dirt bag. Its the user behind the weapon.

I cant tell you how many times I've called on some utard hunting out of bounds on the front.

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Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
Well, unfortunately we are starting to see a huge rift between us hunters on this subject. I don't know why it always has to come down to this but why can't you bow hunters support your rifle hunting friends? If seems like every other post on here is from some bow hunter saying, "sucks to be you but this will be awesome for me!" How about a little more sympathy for these guys who have hunted here for many, many years. How about a little, "what can I do to help?"
Instead, you say hey, be a real man (or woman) and pick up a bow. No wonder so many of the rifle hunters hate you. No wonder we fight amongst ourselves.

Like Packout and Nebo have said, let's look at what happened here. The board didn't even take the rac's advise. They just made their own decision without OUR input. That should just piss you all off no matter what weapon you hunt with.

I hunt this area with a bow and I have hunted it with a rifle. I was going to look at muzzy for next year. I mention that so the bow hunters don't get all ticked off at me being just a rifle guy. I support all weapons choices. Everyone should be able to hunt with the weapon of their choice. Just don't tell someone to suck it up and bow hunt, maybe they don't want to.

Just remember, you tick these rifle guys off one too many times...they won't come to your rescue when you need them. The time will come when you WILL need their support.

P.S Yes, if the rifle hunters were bashing on the bow hunters, I would post a response there as well.
 
this post has had huge response because it was suggested that bowhunters or a bowhunting organization had something to do with closing this rifle area closing down.

This is in fact false. The bowhunters had nothing to do with this and this needs to be set straight.

Quote from the UBA vice president
"The bowhunters did not take anything from anybody. When the issue at hand came up at the wildlife board meeting, the Utah Bowmens Association suggested extending the archery only area as a solution to the problem that was being addressed. Never did we intend to take opportunity from hunters of a different weapon type. In fact, our suggestion did not include any description of boundaries whatsoever. Rather, our suggestion was simply an idea as a solution to a problem. The boundaries were set by the wildlife board based on the recommendations from the DWR.

In discussions that I have had with two wildlife board members during this past week, I have learned that the DWR has been fielding a lot of phone calls over this issue. Due to those phone calls the wildlife board will be reviewing this decision in their January meeting. It is my opinion that they will most likely decide to change the boundaries to more specifically deal with the issue at hand."

When a drastic move happens like this you can bet it had something to do with higher political powers. Who do you think lives up in these homes? Try Salt Lake County mayor Peter Carroon. And two state legislators! The wild life board is acting in a rouge way. They haven't been listing to public opinion. They have been listing to the all mighty back door dollar IMHO. This is disturbing and scary in a big way for hunters and it doesn't matter what weapon you hunt with.

Again I am sorry for the rifle hunters who were displaced. What the heck else can I say. I cant control the way the wildlife board or any other legislators any better then anyone of you! If you need some help with selecting a bow and setting it up then I can help in that area. That is the best I can do! If it gets opened back up to rifles ill hunt it with all three weapons. But for now all I can do is play by the rules.
 
"Just remember, you tick these rifle guys off one too many times...they won't come to your rescue when you need them. The time will come when you WILL need their support."

You mean like the time the AR301 was closed, or the time the closing on the extended hunt was shortened to Nov 30, or the time the statewide archery hunt was changed to pick your region?

The fighting happens on all sides and will continue until we all simply become "hunters" rather than "rifle hunters," "Muzzleloader Hunters," or "Archery Hunters." We all do it and you just did too.
 
>besides i don't think there are
>two many rifle hunters that
>would purchase a bow, have
>the mental tuffness to hit
>those hills without a wheeler,
>come within inches and not
>get a shot, only to
>have to do it all
>over again and again. They
>also don't posses the skills
>to get it done. LOL
>
>
>so as of right now I'm
>not worried.

Giving us bowhunters a bad name with that ignorant kinda talk
what is wrong with you,
have some simpathy,
rifle hunters are losing the number of days to hunt also the areas in witch they hunt.
shoulda seen this coming along time ago.
 
About time they closed it down to rifle, you guys shoot every little buck you see no wounder utah sucks so bad, forbid you let any bucks mature, we almost got the record buck doe ratio
thanks! 50 to 1 is that the objective SW ? winter kill will keep them in check LOL please!
cant wait until you rifle hunters dig our own grave and they shut it down! maybe then you and the dwr, will pull your heads out!
5 day hunt will not change any thing either will 3 day
couple more years of this with some bad winters and it will be all over for ya, cant wait!
We were number 3 in western states for b&c mule deer before 1987 now we are number 6 and falling, see these guys like Don Peay they really dont care, its all for revenue its about revenue
shorting the days doesn't change anything and you already know it. I say what ever the &^%$ I want somebody has got to stir sheet up here
 
My first question is........Why was this discussed at the CENTRAL RAC and not in the NORTHERN RAC??

Second question...... What good is it doing for everyone to fight about it?? Why not start making phone calls, or emailing??

If this problem is strictly a north end of SL county problem why was it discussed at the CENTRAL RAC, did they do this so the northern hunters did not have a say or what??

Also, everyone keeps saying to put down there rifles and pick up a bow, but if we do that then, how many of the current bowhunters will not be able to hunt, because there will not be any tags left!!! OOORRR are they going to take rifle tags out of the kiddie, and give out additional archery tags??

Again, this seems as though there was "ZERO" thought, on this obviously sensitive subject!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-09 AT 09:59AM (MST)[p]Just a quick FYI:
The Wildlife Board is going to revisit this issue in their meeting on Jan. 6. The Board agenda was posted this morning. "http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/pdf/board_agenda.pdf"
For now, we've dropped a more generic statement about this issue into the Big Game guidebook (replacing the original item on pg. 3):

"Hunting in Salt Lake County: Before you hunt deer or elk in Salt Lake County, visit wildlife.utah.gov/maps to view the boundaries and to note any special restrictions."

The other statements (bullet points on later pages) about closures in Salt Lake County, east of I-15, have been removed for now. After the Board makes its follow-up ruling on Jan. 6, we'll amend the guidebook online to reflect the decision.

If you have strong feelings on this issue, you might want to e-mail the Board before the meeting or make arrangements to attend and voice your concerns.

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
> About time they closed
>it down to rifle, you
>guys shoot every little buck
>you see no wounder utah
>sucks so bad, forbid you
>let any bucks mature, we
>almost got the record buck
>doe ratio
> thanks! 50 to 1
>is that the objective SW
>? winter kill will
>keep them in check LOL
>please!
> cant wait until you rifle
>hunters dig our own grave
>and they shut it down!
>maybe then you and the
>dwr, will pull your heads
>out!
> 5 day hunt will not
>change any thing either will
>3 day
> couple more years of
>this with some bad winters
>and it will be all
>over for ya, cant wait!
>
>We were number 3 in western
>states for b&c mule deer
>before 1987 now we are
>number 6 and falling, see
>these guys like Don Peay
>they really dont care, its
>all for revenue its about
>revenue
> shorting the days doesn't change
>anything and you already know
>it. I say what ever
>the &^%$ I want somebody
>has got to stir sheet
>up here
>

sombody is or was on the sause! lol

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Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
GOOD NEWS!!!!

SOME OF MY FELLOW HUNTERS AND I ATTENDED THE RAC MEETING AT THE DWR AT THE BEGGINING OF JAN AND THE DECESION GOT OVER TURNED! THERE IS SUPPOSED TO BE ANOTHER MEETING IN FEB TO REVIEW THE FINAL DETAILS. WE AS HUNTERS NEED TO STICK TOGETHER AND SUPPORT EACH OTHER RIFLE HUNTERS AND BOW HUNTERS A LIKE.
SHAME ON THE UBA FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR HUNERS TO STICK TOGETHER.

FELLOW HUNTERS PLEASE JOIN ME IN MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE ABLE TO KEEP SL COUNT OPEN TO RIFLE HUNTING BY ATTENDING THIS MEETING HUNTING RESPONSIBLY IN SL COUNTY.
 

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