future of our deer herds?

[jcmuleys]

Each year it exciting to see what is new in the hunting regs. This year there are some new seasons and other changes like moving the season dates for our rifle deer hunts. An exciting change if you would like to come to Colorado and hunt close to the rut and have deer concentrated in smaller areas. But it really makes me question the DOW's logic behind some of this. I sit in there meetings and they talk about how the deer herd is declining and they need to issue less tags but then they change the dates to make it easier for most hunters to be successful. And in my opinion it will have a devastating effect on our deer herds across the state. They already issue more tags than they have deer for and setting up a scenario where with weather comes and deer come down like they should the success rate of the hunt could go from 20% success to 45% or something like that. Just a thought!

"When you come to accept conservation as far more important than recreation and consumption, you will have achieved the dubious title of sportsman."
Jerad
Colorado Hunting Consultants LLC
www.cohunthelp.com

 

[COSA]

I agree. The combination of late 3rd season dates, extending the 3rd season through the last weekend, and a good storm could be be disaster for the mature buck population. It kind of rubs me the wrong way when I hear about hunters riding vehicles up to a big buck that stares at them because he's stupid from rutting. Though I have to admit I am somewhat of a hypocrite and apply for a late hunt or two myself.

 

[Founder]

Ya, I agree. The 4th season hunts do enough damage to buck quality, but now to throw that long, late 3rd season into the mix is really going to have an effect on buck quality in most units. Bucks are just far easier to kill when they're love sick and on the winter range.

In this day and age when we have archers successfully shooting 80-100 yards, muzzleloaders 200 yards, and rifles 400-800 yards, combined with all the other items that improve our ability to be successful in the field, we probably can't afford to be having too many tags issued during the heart of the rut.

They need to move all the deer hunts up one season (start with a 1st season deer hunt) and eliminate the 4th. I think then they could issue more tags, yet harvest the same number of bucks each year and probably even have better quality.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[jcmuleys]

Can't blame you! If i was an nonresident and wanted the best chance at a mature buck that is what i would look for is a good late hunt to maximize my opprotunity!
Jerad
Colorado Hunting Consultants LLC
www.cohunthelp.com

 

[jcmuleys]

Very true Brian!! If they want a late rut hunt make it archery only or something!!
Jerad
Colorado Hunting Consultants LLC
www.cohunthelp.com

 

[zekers]

I have no problem with the season change IF tags are reduced for the third and fourth season. Unfortunately they probably will not be, hence, it will have a major impact on mature buck populations. What amazes me though is the short memories of DOW and hunters who have forgotten about the winter 2 years ago. With as much as 80% of the mature buck population wiped out, and still liberal tags allowed in these units, plus a possible mild winter and a easy to draw 3rd season, 9 day hunt, this could possible destroy trophy hunting in many units. I would be for more limited opportunities for the next few years, and wouldn't mind a tag price hike to compensate DOW. Now, we must remember, most of us are trophy hunters on this website. Many hunters are not, and look forward to their annual hunting trip in Colorado. They should be allowed ample opportunity to hunt elk, since we obviously do not manage for trophy quality. There should also be allowed more youth tags for both deer and elk. We don't want to take opportunity away from the young hunters. I don't know what the correct answer is but I think they need to limit tags to compensate for this liberal third season.

 

[zekers]

That would be a good idea. Move all rifle deer seasons up, eliminate the 4th rifle and make it a late archery or even a muzzy hunt.

 

[HELL_ON_WHEELS]

I've thought about Colorado's 4th season hunt many times & it still blows me away that they have a rifle hunt that late right in the rut,how anything survives is beyond me.

Think about it zekers,with todays muzzleloaders what would be the difference between hunting 4th season with a rifle or a muzzy,not a hell of alot.

Colorado is the only place I know of that's hunted harder than Utah,they run it like a big time money business because that's what it is.

 

[zekers]

You're absolutely right H.O.W, but a 200 yard rifle would still be an improvement over a 400 yard rifle. I'm an archery hunter, so I would love to see 4th season tags go primitive, but hey, I'm biased!

 

[HELL_ON_WHEELS]

Well,here's how I kinda look at it:
The New Bows do what Muzzleloaders use to do.
The New Muzzleloaders do what Rifles use to do.
The New Rifles are Long Range(800+ Yards) Sniper Rifles.
Anybody see what I'm saying?
Technology is nice,but Damn!

 

[one_dryboot]

I agree the late dates are going to do a number on the big bucks. Especially with a nine day season and some snow. But I wont complain with a tag in my pocket.

 

[theshineing]

I like the idea of changing the 4 season over to a muzzy hunt. It would be great. One thing some may forget is that Colorado only allow non saboted bullets and no scope. I honestly would like to see someone consistantly hit a pie plate at 200 yards with a muzzleloader open sights. Very hard to say the least. Nobody mentioned the lack of letting a fire burn!!! Fires are put out so fast now days. There are a lot of factures for low deer numbers. Less hunters a field would help but in the same aspect it would take a state that has some people with 21 preferance point through the roof. Oh ya it already is!!! I agree that one of the best thing that can be done to improve number is more primitive hunts and less rifle hunts for deer, and let a few burns happen. Just my two bits.

Like the question
Boone

 

[Jazz]

Regardless of weapon choice at some point don't the animals need a little rest? Seems like long long seasons with someone on your butt all the time!

 

[muleycrazy23]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-10 AT 02:34PM (MST)[p]Ya I was furious when I saw the extended hunt dates. I dont know what the stupid dow is thinking. I am seeing less deer than I ever have and now its going to get worse. We need a change and we need it soon. Whoever is at the head of this is purely in it for the $$$$$. My only hope with the longer seasons is that they might actually cut tag numbers, but I know thats too much to ask for. The moving the seasons up a week and primitive stuff is a good idea to me.

 

[lostinOregon]

The season dates will continue to change. Look at the 5 year plan, by the end of the plan that begins in 10 the seasons will be very early instead of late. It is the same as it was in the last 5 year plan. I don't agree with the 9 days on the 3rd season. I liked the 9, 7, and 5 day format as before. Anyone who has hunted 3rd season knows that the best day has always been the last, not the first. This format in theory would work except for one thing. Winter kill, the bucks were growing larger every year until a bad winter hits then it hits bottom. We will have to wait and see how long it takes to rebound under this current format of seasons.

Rich

 

[lostinOregon]

Here are the dates of the popular 2nd and 3rd season dates for the next 5 years:

2010: 2nd season 10/23 to 10/31
3rd season 11/6 to 11/14

2011: 2nd season 10/22 to 10/30
3rd season 11/5 to 11/13

2012: 2nd season 10/20 to 10/28
3rd season 11/3 to 11/11

2013: 2nd season 10/19 to 10/27
3rd season 11/2 to 11/10

2014: 2nd season 10/18 to 10/26
3rd season 11/1 to 11/9

If you took off the last 2 days that were added to the 3rd season you would see similar dates as prior seasons. This year there is going to be some disapointed people who rely on last years draw data and think they are a shoe in for a 3rd season tag. There will be some major point creep due to the dates IMHO.

Rich

 

[HELL_ON_WHEELS]

Thanks!

 

[jcmuleys]

I do think that some of the units will creep a point this year!
Jerad
Colorado Hunting Consultants LLC
www.cohunthelp.com

 

[scoutdog5]

There is now a ton of research that makes it clear that mature bucks are a critical component in maintaining a healthy deer population. The biggest factor is that does will not breed during the first estrus cycle with younger bucks. Fawns conceived during the second and third estrus cycles are going to be smaller, have higher mortality rates during their first year of life, and, in many cases, not be bred as 1.5 year olds. All you have to do is look at Oregon, where buck ratios of 10-15/100 does are the standard, and very few mature bucks (4.5 = years) exist to see what can happen. Mule deer population is currently at 60% of management objective statewide. So what did ODFW do? Add late rut hunts (small number of tags) in several units.

This is the same problem Utah is facing with elk. In my view, there should be NO HUNTING during the prime rutting season for any species. If a state can't live with that, then for gosh sakes, don't turn your most effective weapon loose at that time.

Founder has absolutely nailed the solution, in my opinion. Have three seasons, starting with the first elk hunt in October, with a small number of tags in what is now the third season. If that were done, 5 years from now you would see a huge increase in opportunity across all of the seasons, with very healthy deer herds, lots of mature bucks, and lots of doe tags issued to keep the herds within Management objectives.

Scoutdog

 

[jcmuleys]

On top of all this we just got about 16 inches of new snow in town and 24-26 at 7000 ft. We have had a mild winter until now. I think this might melt fast cause its very wet snow. Still deer have a hard time with deep snow.
Jerad
Colorado Hunting Consultants LLC
www.cohunthelp.com

 

[ICMDEER]

I agree that the changes in CO will cause additional stress on those mature bucks. But let's remember that it is all relative, and relatively speaking, Colorado's deer are more well managed than most states around them.

Compare Colorado to Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and Utah. There are a few areas managed for quality, but it's mostly "open season" on deer in those states. I wish Wyoming would at least limit residents to a single region, but the answer is that there's "no biological reason" to do that, so we never change. I've only been paying attention to Wyoming's deer mangement for 35 years, but it has not changed significantly during that time. There's a lot of room for improvement in other states as well as Colorado.

 

[jcmuleys]

I don't think that because other states don't manage there deer like Colorado means that we have to follow suit. I am not going to be happy if we just have a few better bucks than Utah or Wyoming. We know what the ranges will hold and that we can grow big mature bucks and have good deer numbers with the right management cause we had that in 06. I just hate to see a state take steps backwards in their management practices.
Jerad
Colorado Hunting Consultants LLC
www.cohunthelp.com

 

[rocketman]

About 10 years ago at a commission meeting in
Craig the 4th season was added. There was no
4th until then. It was set up as a cow only
season to control overpopulation. Quickly bulls
were added and then deer. Some of you trust DOW
but I dont. We went state limited deer 10 years
ago ONLY because deer numbers were dropping in almost
all units AND non res hunters were not buying tags
because of the quality and quantity of the bucks.
Make no mistake DOW is a business first and formost.
They are experiencing a real budget shortfall now
and are self funded with no money from the general
fund. Deer are far more vunerable to hunting than
elk. Roy and Rocketdog

 

[lostinOregon]

You have to give Colorado DOW some credit. They reduced the tags in 1999 (I believe) and started to manage the units. The big deer showed up and so did the hunting pressure. I give them credit also for shutting down some 4th season deer hunts after the bad winter of 08. If that was Oregon we would have added several hunts to make sure we killed all of the legal bucks we had. I also always see branch bulls in Colorado while on my deer hunts, I don't see that in Oregon either. Colorado isn't perfect but I would trade you any day of the week.

Rich

 

[jcmuleys]

Roy you are right on about the deer being vulnerable. You and i had this dicussion in Sportsmans Warehouse last fall. Elk can survive some poor management but deer don't!
Jerad
Colorado Hunting Consultants LLC
www.cohunthelp.com

 

[COHunter]

So how many that posted about all this are "NOT" going to apply for a 3rd or 4th season tag? LMAO!!!

 

[elmore]

What are the odds they will decrease 3rd season tag numbers?

 

[wyomingbound400]

we all know a hard winter will devastate a herd for years, we can just hope the dwo wont unintentionaly do the same

 

[cabinfever]

Lets hope 3rd season is unseasonably warm this year, because if it dumps a bunch of snow the top end bucks are toast......it will be a massacre like no other!

Mike

 

[NickJ1980]

Two more days are going to do all that?

I agree that extra pressure on our mule deer isn't a good thing, but I don't see the sky falling on this one.

 

[jcmuleys]

The two days isn't the big deal its the seasons being a week later this year than last!
Jerad
Colorado Hunting Consultants LLC
www.cohunthelp.com

 

[NickJ1980]

That's not something they planned though--it just happens to be the way it falls this year. A couple of years from now we'll all be crying because the hunts are so early...