my email to Oregon

C

Christian

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Below is the email I sent to Oregon's game department.

It may not do anything, but as a business owner myself, I'd want to know why a cusomter is leaving.

"To whom it may concern,

My name is Robby Denning. I'm from Idaho Falls, Idaho.
I'm 40 years old.

I'm writing to you because I'm very concerned with how you're treating non-resident big game hunters.

I have paid the license fee to apply in Oregon the last 5 out of 6 years, earning 5 preference points in that time.

I like to hunt mule deer and considered Oregon worth applying for.

Now that you've nearly doubled the license fee and continue with only a 5% non-resident allocation, I'm seriously considering giving up on Oregon.

There is a much better dollar value for non-residents in Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Idaho, and Nevada. I think I'll spend my Oregon license dollars in those states.

What might keep me in the Oregon game is if you either offered up to 10% of tags to non-residents (most states do), lowered the amount of tags outfitters can reserve (I can only afford to go self-guided) and did something to turn around your buck numbers.

I see that you've changed some OTC archery units to limited draw and that to me is a step in the right direction, but rifle hunters typically determine buck numbers in a unit, not archery hunters.

I love to hunt and place a high value on it, but you're exceeding that value now.

Good luck funding your department on only resident fees.

I represent many non-resident hunters I know.

Please forward this email to the proper personnel if you're not the correct person.

Thanks for your time"
 
go ahead and add cjboz next to your name on the bottom. You are exactly right. I applied for Oregon sheep the past few years just for a slight chance at a tag. Around 80.00 for a gamble is worth it to me but 170.00(I think I am close) is ridiculous for extremely crappy odds. I would rather spend 2 "hundo" on raffle tickets NOT in Oregon. Oregon is out of my book this year! On this type of topic though I am considering putting the 3,000 in for NM since they only keep a small fee and have better sheep #s and quality opportunities due to being in the same pool as Res. this makes more sense except for having to give them 3,000 for a few months.
 
cjboz,
you're right, there's better value elsewhere. I'm dumbfounded by Oregon's move to increase license fees for a crappy product.

I have no problem paying more when needed, but not for something that is getting worse!

The Christian
 
I got a quick response:

"We recognize that there will be some resistance to higher fees and that some individuals may decide not to purchase a license this year. However, the fee increase was necessary to continue to provide quality fishing and hunting opportunities and to manage and protect Oregon?s fish and wildlife. If you would like to discuss this further, please feel free to give me a call. Thank you.

Sincerely,

xxxx xxxxxxx

Deputy Administrator, Information and Education Division"

The Christian
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-10 AT 03:33PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-10 AT 03:33?PM (MST)

I got on their website and then the contact page and selected any email that had to do with licensing, controlled hunts, administration, but if you just want, just try this guy: (copy and paste works best)

[email protected]

They need to hear from hundreds of people.

The Christian
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-10 AT 03:58PM (MST)[p]If I get enough replies on here, I'll just send them the link to the thread,

so...

keep it clean, professional, and just the facts

I also put it on the main MM mule deer page, too

The Christian
 
I grew up in Oregon. Lived there for 24 of my 31 years. All of my family still lives in Oregon. I moved to Montana for a multitude of reasons, but mainly quality of life.

I bought deer, elk, bear and cougar tags every year I lived in Oregon since I was legally able to do so. I've applied dutifully in Oregon every year as a nonresident since I moved out-of-state. I have built up double digit deer, antlerless deer, and antelope preference points over the years. I also have 5 elk points. I have done so because I love to return to Oregon when my time allows to visit family and friends, and enjoy some time in the outdoors. I can officially say I will be cashing in all points on marginal hunts in 2011 and 2012 and will be done with the state. The 5% cap (which in reality is a 2 1/2% cap when taking into consideration the outfitter tags), coupled with the exorbitant non-refundable application cost and the continually decreasing quality of game, all adds up to one former resident who is calling it quits. I have convinced my family and friends I hunt with to come to Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado going forward for our hunting adventures. I still love Oregon, always have and always will, and the Department will still get some of my money when I come out for a couple days of winter steelhead fishing each year, but I simply cannot justify and support the decisions being made with my hard-earned money.

Eagle_Eye
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-10 AT 04:03PM (MST)[p]I live in Idaho and have bought an Oregon lic. for a long time to hunt Chukar.
But not gonna this year. I can understand a small increase of 15/20 bucks but double the price??????? no-way think i will give Nevada some money this year and go give it another try for a Snowcock..
Bummer though im gonna miss hunting over on Owyhee res. Bet the gas stations and burger joints in Oregon will take a hit also..

Sucks for the guys that have been putting in for draws for awhile.. It just don't seem right..
 
i already sent them an email right after this came out. i guess watching Idaho struggle last year wasnt enough science to change their mind. they will probably lose money this year and have to re-group. we'll see, a lot of guys are bailing out.

Travis
www.RidgelineOutdoors.com
Blacks-Creek Packs Dealer
 
My response to the reply from Oregon,

Dear Mr XXXXXXXX

"Thanks for your response.

I tried to phone you, too, but email is fine.

Reading your response letter, you seem to have missed my point.

I'm not complaining that you're raising the license fee.

My issue is that Oregon isn't offering much value for a nearly 100% increase in license fees. Your value when compared to other western states is plummeting.

I, and many sportsmen and women, understand that costs go up and willingly pay them when the cost-for-opportunity is justified.

The problem is that Oregon non-resident opportunity is so poor, yet you're now charging what other states like Nevada and Arizona are charging, but their opportunity is good for many units.

It's not the fee increase that is the main problem; it's that there is no value to support the increase.

A 5% non-resident cap which is really just 2.5% for most of us not able to access an outfitter is of little value, especially considering the state of your mule deer herds.

thanks for your time,

Robby Denning"

The Christian
 
I think what Oregon is trying to do is keep the hunters out by raising the license so less deer will be killed.I was going to hunt there next year on the late archery hunt, but I will not be going now most likley so one deer saved.
 
I feel that nearly doubling the price is beyond reasonable expectations when making the decision to purchase the license and buy into the points system. Perhaps we should all request refunds on past points/license purchases too?
 
Very good topic, I'm glad to see that there are several others that share my thoughts. I have been putting in for deer, elk, antelope, and sheep for 7 years, but now due to some very poor choices by the game and fish department I will be done giving them money and I do not anticipate using my points on future hunts!

CABugle
 
I agree they are going to do nothing but lose revenue. They will lose alot of people this year, and for those of us who have built up points we will use them somehow so after most of us draw are tags in the next few years and quit, along with all the people who will be discouraged from starting to build points the damage will be even worse in a couple more years. Its hard to beleive that after what happened to Idaho last year there are still fish and game agencies that think raising the price is the way to generate more revenue.
 
Very nice email. I would love to hunt Oregon since it is right next door. But with such a lack of quality animals there is no way I am going to hunt Oregon. If they brought the quality up like it could have then it would be worth the price.
 
I apply in several states. But I'm financially limited on how much I can do. I didn't think Oregon was worth it, before the price hike. I'm glad I didn't waste the last ten years, just to bow out. Or feel like I was committed to keep applying.

Don P
 
That the same boat I'm in, GLAD I'm not in the point hunt up there, I will stay in the point hunt In CA,AZ,NM,WYO,COLO,UT,SD.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
I went through a similar situation with Idaho years ago when they nearly doubled their deer tag fees. I called the fish and game department and talked to a lady saying almost exactly what you said. When I explained about the value not increasing she told me that Idaho offers a "Cadilac" hunt compared to other states. What a crock, especially since their deer herds were on the decline then and have not improved since. It has never been fair for non-residents and the trend continues.....
My folks and sister live in Oregon and I have never been able to hunt with them in Oregon and now I will not waste my money for points anymore.
Moose
 
As an Oregon resident, I found the following statement in the email you recieved from an upper level ODFW management person insulting.

" However, the fee increase was necessary to continue to provide quality fishing and hunting opportunities and to manage and protect Oregon?s fish and wildlife."

One thing to be aware of is that the Oregon legislature has to approve all fee increases. This one was submitted by the dept in the fall of 2008, and approved in spring of 2009, long before Idaho's experience became public knowledge.

Having said that, if the individual who wrote that email really believes what he wrote, he needs to find a new career. More likely, he is continuing the ongoing misinformation campaign that ODFW has pursued for a number of years. If you want to get a good laugh, read the press release that the department will send out regarding fall big game hunting later this summer.

There is a group of us who are working on a pilot program that we will present to the Commission and legislature later this spring. Won't reduce costs, but will deal with increased opportunity for non-residents, and a plan to improve mule deer numbers on certain units.

In the meantime, you might want to hold onto your existing points, but not spend the dollars for points this year, or maybe just suck it up and make the donation. Whatever you decide, keep emailing the department with your concerns. Maybe they will listen to you better than they have listened to the residents.

Scoutdog
 
I just posted a thread about Utah. They are even worse than Oregon. This is where I wish the Feds would step in and clean this up.
 
The last thing we want is the Fed?s managing our hunting. Look at the mess our government is in. IMO
 
Thanks Scoutdog.

If Oregon would give more non-resident opportunity (10%) they could get the non-refundable license fee from a lot of hunters.

The Christian
 
In some respects, the worse the draw odds are for nonresidents, the longer they think they have to stay "in the game" since they already have many years invested. And the more money OR gets over the long haul. It is hard to just throw away 10+ years of applying.


----------------------------------------
Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
 
Scoutdog said - "There is a group of us who are working on a pilot program that we will present to the Commission and legislature later this spring. Won't reduce costs, but will deal with increased opportunity for non-residents, and a plan to improve mule deer numbers on certain units."

I commend you on your initiative on working towards more fairness in the draw quota system. I think it is the right thing to do and personally feel the push toward fairness should come from residents. We are all hunters and all nonresidents in the neighboring state. Thank you.

----------------------------------------
Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
 
Thanks for the kind words. The plan we are working on actually has two parts, first, reduce the harvest on selected units to provide more mature bucks, which we believe will stop the current slide in populations, and lead to increased populations, as well as higher quality hunting opportunities. The problem is this plan will reduce ODFW income by a substantial amount in the first few years. The solution, give non-residents more tags and better quality hunts so they will give us more money to pay for all of this. It is a cinch Oregon is not going to pay for it.

Both the percentage of tags that goes to non-residents and the fees are set by the legislature. They next meet in 2011, so the target date for our plan is 2012. Our plan will allow current holders of points to use those points for the new hunts. Hopefully, it will help clear out some of the high end point holders for both residents and non-residents. Once the plan is finalized and in written support, we will be soliciting support in the form of emails, letters to the Commission, if you agree with our ideas.

For those of you who are debating staying in the point game in Oregon, I certainly can't promise you we will be successful. On the other hand, if we do succeed, you might regret not getting point for a couple of years. One good thing, if you stop buying points at this time, you don't lose your current points regardless of how long you stay out.

If someone made me the tag god in Oregon, I would take the best parts of the systems Wyoming and Colorado use to allocate tags, then take all that extra money and turn Oregon into a must apply state for big game. Seems to me to be a no-brainer to let non-residents pay 90% of the costs for maintaining a quality big game hunting program, then give 75-80% of the tags to residents, but that is obviously NOT what Oregon hunters think.

One final note, although Oregon by statute gives up to 5% of tags to non-residents, the legislature a few years ago gave half of the five percent to outfitters, laaving 2.5% for non-residents in the top units. Those outfitter tags have their own draw, so non-residents have no shot at them. No state limits the number of permits for non-residents to the extent Oregon does.

As to Utah, it is true that they supposedly give 10% of the tags to non-residents, I have found that they consistently undershoot that number for the best tags, particuarly any weapon. Although it is accurate that anyone can win an expo tag by attending, the truth is that 50% of those tags came out of the non-resident draw, and residents are drawing 85-90% of the total tags.

Scoutdog
 
A point to ponder: how can limiting general hunting tags alone bring back the deer?

Wildlife management uses hunters to take bucks. Leaving enough bucks to breed the does. Thus providing a continuing, self renewing stable population of deer. For a depressed deer population to rebuild itself, it needs more breeding does.
So what is removing the breeding does from the population?
I think all of us that spend any amount of time in the field, and have time in the field from decades ago to compare then to now, KNOW the answer to that.


---------------------------------------
Measure wealth by the things you have,, for which you would not take money.
 
I would love to apply for Oregon Mule Deer. Unfortunately, my funds go to states with better quality and more realistic fees. If this thread is sent to the state of Oregon I would apply for an Oregon Mule Deer tag if the "bang for the buck" were worth it.
nk
 
No doubt, remember this is a state full of libs or at least up in portland, following the california way, a department run by libs & book worms who have probably never hunted or spent much time in the outdoors. Lets see no hounds for cats, the state pays a hunter to keep these cats in check " oh wait" that plan has been scraped too. did not work, the cat population & bear population is out of control, instead of 1 kill per cat per week what is now happing is the bears are finding the cats kill & when the cat returns it will not touch the carcass because of a foriegn scent so the cat now kills 2 per week. things need to change, I agree this states hunting department sucks. I live in southern oregon & do most of my hunting in montana,wyoming,colorado,idaho & arizona, surly not utah as the draw odds their suck also.

had to vent.
 
I too will not be hunting or spending my money in OR anymore. Trying to balance the books on non residents backs only and having one of the lowest non res draw average of any western state is just bad judgement.
I have hunted twice a year for decades in OR and spent a load of money supporting local business, but can not continue as it is just simple math. The odds per dollar spent, are just too high and many other western states have much more robust herd numbers with many more mature bucks and bulls.

Stop Global Whining
 
I'm also not going to consider Oregon any more in multi-state applications. I have two friends that are also dropping out. Just not enough value to justify the $. Call us when Oregon starts producing more mature animals, and giving more tags to unguided non-residents.
 
I'm reviving this post one more time before Oregon's application period ends.

My intent is to print off this post and fax it in with my good bye letter instead of my application as I'm dropping out of Oregon. Anyone else want Oregon to hear from you? All viewpoints welcome, just keep it clean


The Christian
 
I too am an Oregonian who chooses to hunt elsewhere as much as possible. My view is this. For me, part of the "cost" of going hunting for 7-10 days is the time spent away from my wife and young children. Just like most on this site, I want what is to me the best hunting experience possible, so I do not hestitate to spend my money in Wyoming and Colorado. Those states offer a far better return for my "investment" of time spent away from loved ones.

I would gladly pay more to hunt in Oregon, much more, if I could find the quality of hunt I desire. However, I see Oregon as simply a lost cause until their minimum buck/bull ratios are adjusted upward, cougars are hunted with dogs, a wolf season is established, etc.

I fully intend to buy my kids preference points in CO and WY as soon as they are eligible at $25-$50 a pop. I doubt I will buy them OR points at $8 each because I feel it's probably a waste of $8. Is there ONE rifle mule deer hunt in Oregon as good as what can be drawn in Colorado every year with 0 points? In my opinion no, so I will continue with the stategy of putting my money and time investment towards the best places possible.

I feel better now.

Banger
 
I am a non-resident and will no longer be putting in for Oregon. The fee increase is annoying but to me the low percentage of non-resident tags is even more annoying.
 
The cost to apply in Oregon is "peanuts" as compared to other states, especially if your serious and have to buy a license to build points. All over $8 - you've got to be kidding!
 
I have been a loyal nonresident, purchasing a licence just for the drawing for the last 10 years. I realized that the stingy nonresident quota combined with the hunting quality made it a marginal value, but it was cheap enough I gave OR almost $100 a year for pretty much nothing returned. Now that that they nearly doubled the price...I'm done. Never again. They just lost my nearly $100 a year donation. Forever. I wrote them and told them, but bI'm adding my .02 again here...
 
Same thing here. I'm done. Oregon will not get any more money from me unless things are changed. I've got 10 deer and elk points.
 
>The cost to apply in Oregon
>is "peanuts" as compared to
>other states, especially if your
>serious and have to buy
>a license to build points.
> All over $8 -
>you've got to be kidding!
>


Don't forget the $140.00 license that you have to buy before you can buy those $8.00 points! I've hunted Oregon and supported the system for years, now sitting on 5 points and up. I doubt that I will even bother using the points because I can now get a much better hunt in other states for the same money.
 
How can you offer the same lousy product for more money. I will not be applying for Oregon this year. Joe
 
Next year is the year when I finally have enough financial backing to start getting serious about applying in other states. Oregon WAS one of my top choices, not now. After this post I won't be heading north to hunt birds either.

I know I have not applied in the past but maybe knowing they are losing more than current customers will help.

NO GUTS, NO STORY!!


4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
I too will not be buying a N.R.lisence until the quality of the deer and Elk herds are improved. I live in Idaho,and have 5-Elk points,but i'm donating for a lost cause with no chance of drawing a quality hunt.I'll be sticking to Wyoming from now on until Oregon decides whats really important, charging more money for a depleted elk and deer hunt won't get my money..
 
Here is sit with 13-14 NR points and I'm just sick. I'm seriously thinking about not putting in for all my hunts. Every year I make my nearly $100.oo dollar donation to receive either a rejection (unsuccessful) notice or a phone call from the dept stating that the only tag for that particular unit is going to an outfitter, but you can purchase one from the outfitter! I still may apply for a Columbia Whitetail hunt, but I probably will just say screw it. I feel that OR is ripping off NRs and I've had it with them. WTH, up to 5%? There quality of animals (elk and mule deer specifically) suck compared to all other states including California. Heck, at least the blackmail state of Idaho has some incredible hunting oppurtunities for the NR.

I my bet is that the Oregon fish and wildlife dept. will need a pontoon soon as this anchor will be pulling them under financially. Big mistake on part of the board of directors! RICK
 
BomberBlackies expounds on exactly why I'm quitting Oregon and why I started this post. I hope their residents can make up for the money people like Bomber were paying: $1400 dollars and never hunting?

Oregon is the worst value/worst odds for the dollar of any western state for a nonresident.

The Christian
 
Hey Scoutdog5 from post #26.

I saw when you answered back in February, you said the work you were doing wouldn't lower costs but would address the non resident issue (which I assume you meant the 5% cap.)

I noticed as this thread grew over the months, people aren't really complaining about the cost, nor was I, but rather what they are receiving for the cost.

By Oregon doubling their license fee, they are really just getting in line with fees charged in AZ, ID, NV but the difference is value. There is no value now in Oregon. As many posters pointed out, they only played the game because it was cheap.

Sportsmen and women don't mind paying, especially non residents.

The Christian
 
With the tags going to outfitter every other year for my choices and only 5 and 3% of the tags going to NR. Whats the use. Add on increased fees, which does hurt regardless of how much I love to hunt, I am done with Oregon. Ill come back when they treat nonres like Nevada does. Tony
 
Christian,
Nice initiative.
I lived in OR for about 21 years, and fortunately, got the best OR has to offer when I drew a CA BHS tag. After I moved away, my wife had several elk points, so we both applied as NRs last year. After the price hikes and nothing to show for it except more cougars, we are through applying in OR.
 
Christian, a group of us are working on a mule deer pilot project proposal to present to ODFW this summer. The purpose is to dramatically increase the number of mature bucks on the three test units, and includes giving non-residents 15% of the resident tags in their own draw.

Unfortunately, the legislature will ahve to approve the changes, and they don't meet until 2011, so 2012 would be the first year it would go into effect.

We have re-dssigned the financials to accomplish this without impacting income to ODFW (it should actually increase), so are optimistic we can get support from the department, particularly given that they are being told by the Governor to trim 10-20% from next year's budget in anticipation of a huge shortfall in state revenues in Oregon.

Some things you will like, for the pilot project units, you will be able to purchase a preference point without buying the license, but when you actually apply for a tag, you will still have to buy the license. The draw for these hunts will be early, with the results out prior to March 15, and you will still be able to apply in the regular controlled hunt process, but can only have one deer tag per year.

Should have more details ready to publish in the next 30 days.

Scoutdog
 
This thread cracks me up. You think it's going to matter if a couple dozen NR's don't apply anymore? That happens in every state every year for a vaiety of reasons. I'm irritated with Montana right now and even filed a formal complaint with the Licensing Bureau. Do you think that will matter. Do you think it mattered a few years ago when Utah quit allowing me to build a bonus point for $5 and made me buy a license. I think all states should offer the same % of NR tags but that isn't going to happen so great don't apply in Oregon. Big Deal!
 
Jazz,
So all the changes that have come about in the Western states in the last 20 years came about by dissatisfied hunters keeping quiet?

Colorado going to limited licenses for deer?

Idaho legislature passing laws to allow the implementation of a point system?

Utah putting some general tag areas under a cap?

Wyoiming starting a point system for non residents?

All of these changes started with a few dissatisfied people (non residents and residents) making themselves known.

If our request for change is a bad idea not supported by many, then it will die, but we won't know without trying.


The Christian
 
Christian, Mabye you should talk to Muleyman about value, him and his buddies kill big stuff all over Oregon. They say its as good as any other state!! ALL the rest of us must be doing somthing wrong.
 
They don't kill big stuff all over the state without a tag. I believe the point here is 5% of tags are for NR's and so some feel they can't draw a tag for the money in and if they do then the quality isn't as good as other states that have more tags for the money to begin with.

I'm not apethetic about much of anything and maybe your right about some of the changes. I guess my point is that I put in for tags in NV, CO, WY, MT, AZ, UT, CA, ID, and Oregon. I don't really try and draw in MT so it's out I guess. Wyoming may be the same as I have only hunted there via an outfitter and I don't apply in ID but it's somewhat due to the NO POINT system, which has advantages and disadvantages. So that leaves NV, CO, AZ, UT and CA. I have to buy a license in each of them to build points and I will have lots of $'s invested in AZ and UT before I ever draw the units I'm interested in. So for me it's simple pay the money if I can to play the game.

Best of luck.
 
Add another one too dropping out. I have 10 points for lope, 5 for elk and deer. It's just not worth it.

On a good note I sent that money to Nevada instead and will start gaining points there. Much better product over there.

IB
 
agreed , Oregon does a poor job of managing there big game . i know the potential is there. hunted Hart mountain in 1979 and 80. that was a great hunt, i also went back in 84 just looking at bucks with my bride to be. deer everywhere, really nice bucks, and some huge ones . even now i dream about hunting it again but knowing what its like now it would be disapointing.hunted Steens in about 87 rifle then 88 bow. there were allot of deer then, allot of bucks but i didnt see no really "nice " buck on either hunt, but was seeing 20 -25 bucks a day.
I am staying in the points game only because a freind/rancher here in central idaho owns a huge chunk of land in the beulah unit. it is surounded by other large ranches where the hunting pressure is very limited. the deer quanity is great there. it is wide open sage. on an average day of glassing you will see about 50-60 does and 20 or so bucks usully 5 or 6 in the 22-24 inch range maybe one out of 50 24-26 inch range and every once and awhile a bigger one. the point i am making is the potental is there in oregon for quality hunts. i will still build points and hunt on the landowner tag but if it wasnt for that tag i probably not apply in oregon anymore also. Larry
 
I"ve decided that we'll probably apply for some hunts we can draw to use our points, and then I'm done applying in Oregon ever again unless they make major changes to the way they treat non-residents and manage their game. Of all states, I think Oregon is the worst in how they treat non-residents and I'll take my precious few discretionary dollars and use them in states that actually want non-resident hunters.

Those who set policy at ODFW totally suck as far as I'm concerned. They have a narrow, short-sighted view of things and I hope they either get a clue, or see their income from non-resident applicatioins decline so precipitously that someone goes WTF?
 

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