Utah Statewide Archery?

L

littlebuck2

Guest
Anyone else nonsucessful for the statewide archery hunt. Put it down as second choice so I wouldn't have to buy it later but doesn't even look like I'm going to have the chance later eaither.
 
Northern muzz and rifle are the only leftover deer tags. Its gonna really suck when we don't draw archery every year as a first choice in any unit.

NO GUTS, NO STORY!!


4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
im curious im not saying they should do it and dont want them to but.... how can they give unlimited tags for spike/cow archery tags and they limit the deer when there are way more deer than elk in utah
 
I am in the same boat as you lttlebuck. I was pretty bummed about it too. I guess the days when you can hunt every year are going away all to quickly...
 
Weird, I put statewide archery as my second choice with no pref points (NR). 1st choice was southern rifle which i hoped i would not draw so i could get a point for next year.
 
+ 2......'more deer than elk'....WTF???

If those Youth bow buck tags dont sell out they --MIGHT-- open them up to anyone so hang in there.....

I can not see them eating any tags by not selling them ???

Robb
 
My plan is always- LE Rifle (Book Cliffs), then my 1st choice general hunt is Archery... This will be my plan every year from now until I draw the LE rifle... I hope to draw the archery every year, but it just might not happen anymore...

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
I put in for the statewide with a preference point and obviously drew one. However, my dad and three brothers all put in for archery as a third choice thinking they could get one. My two sisters in law were also unsuccessful in the draw. Looks like out of the seven hunter in my family I am the only one with a deer tag this year. I sure hope we get cow tags again!!

Dillon
AM 32
 
>+ 2......'more deer than elk'....WTF???
>
>If those Youth bow buck tags
>dont sell out they --MIGHT--
>open them up to anyone
>so hang in there.....
>
>I can not see them eating
>any tags by not selling
>them ???
>
>Robb


they wont be selling them to anyone besides the youth!

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Nets are for fish!!
 
I am just sick I can't believe I am going to go a year without hunting deer I guess I should have put Archery 1st. Pretty sad when you can't draw any deer tag anymore
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-26-10 AT 06:13PM (MST)[p]SW......--"they wont be selling them to anyone besides the youth!"

That is the way it should be for sure!


Robb
 
uh yeah more deer than elk.... est 65,000 elk vs est 300,000 deer! where is the questioning?
 
>im curious im not saying they
>should do it and dont
>want them to but.... how
>can they give unlimited tags
>for spike/cow archery tags and
>they limit the deer when
>there are way more deer
>than elk in utah


There are about 275-300,000 deer in UT which is a lot more than 65-70,000 elk in the state. The big difference is that the deer are way BELOW the objective of about 420,000 deer while elk are OVER the old objective of about 65,000 elk. (I thought they moved the new elk objective to 80 or 85,000?)

So they have to limit deer tags (from a pop mngt pt of view they should limit them even more than they do) While elk they don't need to worry about. The "unlimited" archery elk tags really don't sell that many and success rate is low.
 
I would like to see the board add 10,000 more archery permits and reduce 10,000 rifle permits to let the herd have a chance for few decent bucks to live a year or two longer. It would be good for all in the long run and the Division would still take in the same amount of money.

What do the rest of you think of something like that. Utah really needs to do something with the deer herd and at least that way the same number of people could hunt. The archers would pay the biggest price as they would have more hunters in the field and the rifle hunt would be less crowded, but the real winner would be the deer and in the long run all hunting camps.

Have a good one BB

9625quartering-away.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-27-10 AT 03:28PM (MST)[p]I think it is hilarious that now the archery hunters who put it as there 2nd choice are not guaranteed a tag, so all of a sudden we should give more archery tags. Its not going to hurt some of you to sit out a year. My wife who cannot shoot a bow, did not get a tag for 2 years in a row now. I am not against archery hunting. In fact, I quite enjoy it myself, but when archery hunters feel like they are ENTITLED it drives me crazy. lets give archery hunters 30,000 more tags, they can hunt every year, but my wife can only hunt every 5 years.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-27-10
>AT 03:28?PM (MST)

>
>I think it is hilarious that
>now the archery hunters who
>put it as there 2nd
>choice are not guaranteed a
>tag, so all of a
>sudden we should give more
>archery tags. Its not
>going to hurt some of
>you to sit out a
>year. My wife who
>cannot shoot a bow, did
>not get a tag for
>2 years in a row
>now. I am not
>against archery hunting. In
>fact, I quite enjoy it
>myself, but when archery hunters
>feel like they are ENTITLED
>it drives me crazy.
>lets give archery hunters 30,000
>more tags, they can hunt
>every year, but my wife
>can only hunt every 5
>years.

Archers have been wanting to move more tags to archery before they were selling out to help the deer out. less rifle tags and more archery tags means more animals saved for the next year.

alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-28-10 AT 10:23AM (MST)[p]Russ, the rifle mentality, in Utah which has existed for eons, will no longer work. It's not a matter of being able to hunt every year anymore, it's a matter that in a few years, if we don't so something to help the deer, most deer hunters will be lucky to get a tag every three or four years.

Do you just want your wife to hunt, or do you want a better deer herd? It's really pretty simple in that if they reduce permits across the board, then those getting the permits available will have to pay more for them. However they decide to do it, permits one way or other need to be reduced. My suggestion favors everyone, not just bow hunters and it allows a way to keep permits at present levels and hopefully reduce the likelihood of having to raise fees.

From a selfish standpoint I prefer they just cut the number of present permits in half (across the board in all three weapons) and double the tag fee. That would allow more bucks to age and far less hunters to compete with, as I have a lifetime license and I will get my permit no matter what happens to the rest of you. That seems to be the attitude you have with your statement.

Have a good one. BB


It would nice to give bucks like this a chance to get a bit bigger before we felt like we needed to kill it before some else does.
5347buck-deer.jpg
 
Alpine and BB you and I all have seen the light. We know the facts how archery can help the deer herds out we see it every year. We hunt an over the counter tag for four months, we hunt monster bucks in the rut, we don't have winter range, or SFW $$$. The funny thing is in an area like this also has better quality then 95% of the LE deer units in Utah go figure

If the weapons range is shortened more deer will survive. So we need to get by this you are better then me mentality coyote brings up. I absolutely think if there were a few more areas like the front some of these die hard rifle guys would put their guns down and choose to pick up a bow. They would do it willingly all you have to do is look at the facts they are selling these tags out more and more every year. People just want to hunt!!

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Nets are for fish!!
 
If your wife medically "can't" shoot a bow you can get a crossbow permit. If its just because you are lazy or can not kill at less than 500yds that's your problem. They can also increase muzzy tags for those who "can't" shoot a bow, or make limited range weapons (like some antlerless hunts) and go shotgun only.

The bottom line is you need to lower success rates, and keep the same revenue or else DWR won't buy it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-29-10 AT 02:53PM (MST)[p]Sorry, but I have a very hard time with 300,000 deer in utah. That is just not the case. If it were, then you would have to be counting LE units, and you can't. Look at open general hunting units and tell me there's more deer than elk. the low numbers on general units are where everyones problem is, why throw le unit numbers in the equation. Deer numbers in utah suck! Elk are doing great! Now let's work on the deer!

I agree that lowering rifle tags and putting them in archery or muzz will help immensely. Success rates are way lower leaving more animals on the mtn, with very happy hunters heading home when the hunt is over, 4 months later.

I love to archery hunt but won't pass up a chance at a rifle hunt. My wife wanted to get into archery but couldn't pull a bow at first. She worked very hard at it and got to where she can pull 40lbs and killed an elk her first year and passed on a few smaller bucks. Now she is hooked and gives me crap when I pick up my rifle.

If your wife can't pull a bow for medical reasons, get a doctors note and buy a crossbow. Then she can enjoy hunting every year.

What I would love to see happen but never will is DNR stop killing elk and deer on farms in the winter,and no financial compensation or pay to build a fence around the fields, if you don't want deer or elk in your field don't put it on winter range or YOU build a 8 foot fence to keep them out. Make it illegal for landowners to just shoot them if on their property and they don't want them there. If it was made public info on how many deer and elk are killed every winter by either the DNR or landowners you would all be outraged! Remember, you put your field where the deer and elk have wintered since the beginning of time, deal with it! If your sick of them eating the shrubs in your yard, Deal with it! Or plant shrubs they don't like, you built your house on their winter range!

I know people are going to come after me for these comments but its the truth!
The herds would be in a lot better condition if it were handled better!


NO GUTS, NO STORY!!


4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
The days of getting a bow tag are over you're going to have to pick a hunt and hope for the best
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-29-10 AT 09:11PM (MST)[p]For those of you who are true bowhunters and put in for Archery as first choice you ALL drew. Don't complain that you didn't draw your second of third choices. If you really want to hunt you will put in for archery first choice from now on. I am getting tired of hearing how more archery hunting will solve all of the problems with the deer and elk herds. Maybe more archery hunting will bring world peace and stimulate the economy also.
 
You never know, it might. lol I have the answer for all. Micromanage!!! Everywhere is different. It is sad to see so many Rifle hunters / Muzzy hunters / Archery hunters pound the crap out of certain areas like Strawberry, Nebo, and others. Deer herds will take a while to recover, if ever in these areas if we continue on the road we are going down. Manage each area FOR THE AREA. Not a whole region. That is impossible. Could anyone Manage a whole business of 7000 employees with 1 Boss. All report to this one person. Ridiculous!!!


"Be a first rate version of yourself, not a second rate version of someone else"

(Anonymous)
 
Shineing,
I agree 100%. My biggest complaint is if a management practice(shorter seasons, less tags) is good for one (rifle) then it should also be good for Archery and Muzzleloader. The archery hunters shouldn't be complaining about too many rifle tags. The reason you all didn't draw your archery tags second and third choice is because of the 1500 youth tags still sitting there. If they were in the regular pool you would have most likely all drew.
 
Its already been made very clear they aren't cutting tags. Why not move it to a weapon with a lower success rate? People get to hunt and some deer live to see another day.

NO GUTS, NO STORY!!


4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
I would not blame the situation on the youth tags. If it were my decision I would open those 1500 tags to the weapon and season of their choice. Without new recruits this sport will surely end up in the hands of the rich.
You might point the finger at the shortened rifle seasons. This may be the reason more hunters put in for archery.
 
Like I said in my above statement, the rifle mentality of this state has to change. It DOES and CAN NOT WORK ANYMORE. We have way too many rifle hunters for the number of deer we have. The DIVISION needs to begin to educate hunters and have them understand that could still hunt with a bow, for a lot longer period of time, and the deer herd will not be impacted like it is with the present number of rifle hunters. We need to cut rifle number and get some of those people to switch to archery hunting. The way you do that is allow more archery tags, longer seasons etc. The more archery hunters afield, thE TOUGHER IT WILL BE TO FILL YOUR TAG.

The MAIN reason most rifle hunters don't want to do that, is they know there's a far greater chance, that when they see the buck they want, they aren't capable of getting a shot at it. let alone killing it. Bowhunting, even with today's equipment is far tougher than when I used to hunt deer with my open sighted, lever action, 32 special. Even with that gun I could kill a deer at 100 yards with no rest. With a bow I limit myself to 30 or 40 yards, even with the new equipment I use.

Like I said before you rifle hunters, with the mentality that if they shorten the gun season, then they have to shorten the bow season, and with the mentality if they cut rifle tags, then they have to cut bow tags, will be sitting on the side lines watching others hunt for 3 or 4 years before you get your chance to hunt again. And with that mentality, you deserve the results.

IT?S NOT THAT FAR AWAY!!!!!!

I have a lifetime tag, most of you guys don't. I will be hunting every year I want to, you won't! It's time to WAKE UP and FACE the FACTS!!

Have a good one. BB

The photo below was taken two years later than the buck I posted in my posted above and was taken at the same spot. Do you think its the same buck, just two years older?

88651-1-8.jpg
 
bb- I do believe that is the same deer. He appears to have gone from 110" to 140" in two years nice sequence. Very cool to see.
 
I think adding 10,000 archery tags would be worse for the deer. The problem is, if that is the only tag available your going to have a bunch of guys out there that have not put in the time of sighting in there bows and being comfortable with them. Thier will be a bunch of people out there flinging arrows and wounding more deer than killing. But thats just my opinion.
 
140" paalease

the rifle mentality is the first photo the deer is a shooter on first day. the archers mentality on the front the first photo the deer lives anther 2 years. why is this? I see it all the time on the front.

I have hunted the front for 10 years and have never see anyone taking a 2 point, spike or small two year old deer except myself one year I killed a three point with a broken rear leg on the last weekend!

so why all the trigger control? why does a long season work for archers and not for rifle hunters?










4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

Nets are for fish!!
 
swb do you disagree that is a 140 class buck?
To answer your question with my opinion, I would say the difference between Wasatch front archers and general season rifle hunters is this:

1- General season rifle hunters are more for the outing and killing (I'm not saying all of them but most)

2- General season rifle hunters seem to have the mentality that if I don't shoot him the guy in the truck behind me will, and I may go home empty handed

3-Wasatch front archery hunters are definitely on another level of hunting. There are not many roads and it can be very physically demanding (they are still hunters like the rest of us, and the worst thing for our sport is to turn against another hunter)

4-I don't think general season rifle hunters have seen very many big bucks in quite a few years on their units

5-Wasatch front archery hunters see big deer on a consistant basis year to year and know if they pass on lesser bucks they have a good chance of seeing a better class buck, and the possibly getting a shot opportunity

All in all while archery hunting just seeing a buck doesn't mean anything. It takes alot of work or luck to get a shot. On the wasatch you are at least seeing bucks.
General season units have so much pressure and the quality of deer has fallen so low most rifle hunters seem to have taken on the mentality of " I'll take what ever I can get"

I do not see the same rifle mentality in other states( at least not as bad as it is in Utah)
 
LAST EDITED ON May-03-10 AT 12:55PM (MST)[p]I was on the committee that decided to push for the 1500 youth archery tags. Based on results success rates are such that 1500 tags will be close to negligible.

They WILL NOT be turning these tags over to adults. The 1500 tags are there for recruitment and youth opportunity, nothing more.

There are 5500 N. region any weapon tags left over, obviously making them less desirable than archery tags. I contend that there is room for movement on these remaining permits and agree that archery allocations being increased and decreasing rifle tags will be a useful tool if we want to preserve or increase deer numbers while maintaining similar tag numbers.

On the other hand, there is no sense in worrying about something that is going to completely change in the coming months.


>I would not blame the situation
>on the youth tags. If
>it were my decision I
>would open those 1500 tags
>to the weapon and season
>of their choice. Without new
>recruits this sport will surely
>end up in the hands
>of the rich.
>You might point the finger at
>the shortened rifle seasons. This
>may be the reason more
>hunters put in for archery.
>


www.bowhuntersofutah.com
 
>On the other hand, there is
>no sense in worrying about
>something that is going to
>completely change in the coming
>months.


So are the proposed changes that we heard about for 2011 looking like they are going to go into effect?
 
>the rifle mentality is the first
>photo the deer is a
>shooter on first day. the
>archers mentality on the front
>the first photo the deer
>lives anther 2 years. why
>is this? I see it
>all the time on the
>front.
>
>I have hunted the front for
>10 years and have never
>see anyone taking a 2
>point, spike or small two
>year old deer except myself
>one year I killed a
> three point with a
>broken rear leg on the
>last weekend!
>
>so why all the trigger control?
>why does a long season
>work for archers and not
>for rifle hunters?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg

>Nets are for fish!!

You're kidding me right??? Yes I too have never seen a buck under 180 killed by an archer. Ok ok I get it now, archers always good, rifles esta muy malo.


4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
swb- LMAO!

FlyFool- The proposed changes were to run split general hunts with elk and deer. The buzz lately was micro-management was going to be proposed at the RACs in November. I have not personally seen or heard of the DNR make any suggestions toward micro-managing.
IMO it is long over due and I hope it ends up being more than just talk.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-03-10 AT 05:40PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-03-10 AT 05:37?PM (MST)

FlyFool here is the only thing I have heard about change.

""The time of year when you can hunt deer and elk in Utah might change in 2011.


Some Utah deer hunting seasons might change in 2011.

Photo by Brent Stettler
Several months ago, the Utah Wildlife Board directed the state's wildlife agency to:

?Give big game hunters more hunting options to choose from
?Reduce crowding among hunters who are in the field
The ideas the Division of Wildlife Resources has come up with wouldn't be implemented until the 2011 hunts. But the changes are big enough that the DWR wants to get the ideas out now so there's plenty of time for you to comment.

Rules for the 2011 hunts will not be approved until November 2010.

"The ideas we've come up with would give hunters some new options," says Anis Aoude, big game coordinator for the DWR.

Learn more, share your ideas

You can learn more about the DWR's ideas and provide your input and suggestions at five Regional Advisory Council meetings held across Utah.

Citizens representing the RACs will share with the Utah Wildlife Board the input received at the meetings.""
The following are among the ideas the DWR is considering. A calendar that shows when the proposed seasons would be held is available at http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/info/09-11-03.pdf

General deer and elk hunts

Four major general-season deer and elk changes could occur in 2011:

>Two general rifle deer hunts
The first idea would keep the number of general rifle buck deer permits the same as it is now (no more than 97,000 permits), but it would split Utah's general rifle deer hunt into two hunts.

Each hunt would be nine days long, just like the hunt is now, but hunters could choose to participate in an early hunt or a late hunt.

The early hunt would be held at the start of October. The late hunt would happen at the end of October.

Having two rifle deer hunts would reduce by half the number of hunters in the field at any one time.

"You'd still be able to hunt the same number of days you can hunt now, but you'd have fewer hunters in the field with you," Aoude says. "We think this change would make your rifle hunt even better."

Hunting deer and elk at the same time

Another idea would let you hunt deer and elk at the same time. The DWR is considering holding the general rifle buck deer hunt and the general rifle bull elk hunt on the same days.

"This change would allow you to hunt deer and elk at the same time," Aoude says. "But you wouldn't have to do that. If you wanted, you could obtain a deer permit to hunt during either the early or the late season, and also obtain an elk permit to hunt during the season when you're not hunting deer.

"This change wouldn't take anything away from you. But it would give you another option you could take advantage of, if you wanted to."

Hold muzzleloader deer and elk hunts at the same time

In addition to holding the rifle deer and elk hunts at the same time, the DWR is considering holding Utah's general muzzleloader deer and muzzleloader elk hunts at the same time too. The general muzzleloader deer and elk season would be held in the middle of October, between the two rifle hunts.

The DWR is also considering adding a second muzzleloader elk hunt a general any-bull elk hunt. That hunt would happen in mid November.

Same start dates every year

A third idea is to start all of Utah's big game hunts on the same calendar days every year. For example, if Aug. 21 was chosen as the day to start the general archery elk hunt, the season would start on Aug. 21 every year, even if Aug. 21 didn't fall on a Saturday.

The only exception would be if a start date fell on a Sunday. Then the season would probably begin on the proceeding Saturday.

"This idea would keep the season dates consistent from year to year," Aoude says.

Limited-entry deer and elk hunts

The DWR also has two ideas for Utah's limited-entry deer and elk hunts:

Dates for limited-entry elk hunts

One idea would change the dates of the limited-entry elk hunts. It would also give archers first chance at the elk.

Starting in 2011, biologists would like to start the limited-entry archery elk hunt in early September and end it in mid September. That's when the elk are at the peak of their breeding season.

(The breeding season is also known as the rut. During the rut, elk are less wary because they're focused on breeding. That makes it easier for hunters to take them.)

After the limited-entry archery hunt ended in mid September, the limited-entry muzzleloader elk hunt would start the next day. Muzzleloader elk hunters would have the elk to themselves for four days. Then the limited-entry rifle hunt would also begin. Both the muzzleloader hunt and the rifle hunt would end on the same day in early October.

"Because they use rifles, rifle hunters have a better chance at taking an elk than archery or muzzleloader hunters do," Aoude says.

"Even if we move limited-entry rifle hunters to the latter part of the rut, they're still going to be successful," he says. "But allowing archery hunters to hunt during the rut would really increase their success. And their success rate would probably still be lower than the success rate rifle hunters find during the rut."

Hold the general and limited-entry rifle deer hunts at the same time

An additional idea is to hold the limited-entry rifle buck deer hunt at the same time the general-season rifle buck deer hunt is held.

The hunt on some limited-entry deer units would happen at the start of October. The hunt on other units would happen at the end of October.

"Limited-entry deer hunts and general-season deer hunts are held on completely different units," Aoude says. "Holding the hunts at the same time shouldn't create any conflicts between limited-entry hunters and general-season hunters. They'd be hunting on separate units."

Once-in-a-lifetime hunts

Bull moose season

Utah's bull moose season is currently split into two hunts. The DWR is considering combining the two hunts into one hunt. The hunt would be held from late September to mid October.

The bull moose change is the only once-in-a-lifetime species change the DWR is considering for 2011.

"The ideas we have right now are a starting point to get our biologists and sportsmen talking about possible changes for 2011," Aoude says. "We're wide open to the suggestions hunters and other folks have."

(quoted from the news release page DWR)
 
The 2011 proposed season dates, or something similar will be implemented along side micro management. The board has already made up their mind on the unit issue, just stay tuned.

This year's bucks and bulls RAC meetings will be nothing short of exciting, entertaining and depressing all rolled into one. Get your tickets early!

www.bowhuntersofutah.com
 
I would imagine there will be a few muzzy hunters jumping ship to archery or any weapon choices when they see there season starting after the early rifle opener
 
Too borrow a phrase from a prominent MM'er:

JUDAS FRICKEN PRIEST!!

Just ONCE I would like to see a '5-year plan' ACTUALLY GO 5 YEARS.

It's like watching a circus, ya just never know what might show up in the ring.

Pred
 
I agree that several Muzzleloader hunters will start archery hunting to avoid being stuck between two rifle hunts. I basically only do archery so that will mean I only get a tag every other year right? I am interested to see what happens with the limited entry elk hunts. I believe they were going to start the muzzleloaders hunters on a Wednesday and then the rifle hunters come in on Saturday and they hunt together for a week. I would go muzzle loader in that case. I know my gun can do some major damage. I have a TC omega with a thumbhole stock and I love it, but not as much as my AM 32.

It should be fun going to those RAC meetings, I imagine I will see a few of you in Brigham City.

What are they going to do with the Dedicated Hunters? Do they get to hunt both rifle hunts now?

Dillon
 
I don't think this is the same deer... characteristics of the rack may be genetically similar, but the cape and face appears to be different..? if it is the same buck (And it very well may be), that's pretty sweet you got 2 pics of him, but they appear to be 2 different deer to me...


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 

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