nothing has changed, why?

[SMELLYBUCK]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-10 AT 11:09AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-10 AT 11:07?AM (MST)

I've heard a lot of brilliant ideas about how to improve the deer hunt. Unfortunately, I've been hearing brilliant ideas for 20 years (and have been the proponet of some), yet nothing has improved.

At this point, I am more curious about why the changes during my hunting career have not improved anything, than about what we should do in the future.

The things I used to hear people complain about in the Southern camps: CA hunters, N hunters, too many tags, muzz rut hunt, either sex archery, people hunting all three hunts, not enough habitat, too much road kill, season too long- to name a few), have all been attended to.

We got rid of CA, we've restricted N UT hunters by going to 5 units, we cut tags by more than 100,000!!!, cut dates, and went to choose your hunt. We took the muzz hunt out of the rut, we went to buck only archery (& we allot far more cow elk tags than doe deer tags now), put deer fences along I15, burned and cut junipers, and more. Yet we still beg for major changes without really ever figuring out why all the other stuff didn't work. I'm amazed all these things didn't work and I'm very resistant to buying into more brilliant ideas.

Before we move on blindly with more restrictions, why do you guys think all the restrictions I've mentioned have not fixed the problem?

 

[walleye1121]

I think one of the most overlooked factors is the easy access we have to our mountains to hunt.

In the days before atvs a well timed storm limited the number of hunters that could get on the mountain. The roads would get torn up until only a few would attempt to travel on them with their 4 wheel drives chained to the max. The condition of some of the backcountry roads would make it difficult to take a truck in 5 or 6 miles. It might take a truck an hour or more to go that distance.

Now everyone can travel those same roads at 20 miles an hour or better no matter what the conditions. There is no road too nasty for a 4wheeler.

This easy access has made hunters much more dangerous to the deer and deer are pestered nearly year round. They simply have far fewer places that they can get away from people.

Elk seem to love to drop off into the bottoms of some of the nasty canyons. It is the nature of deer to want to be on the tops. They are just too vulnerable.

 

[8HEAVYONE]

Because no one will address the huge predator problem we have and they don't think they hunt 365 days a year that is a very very big problem we have and they just don't think it is.

 

[Zeke]

Sometimes it's a case ot "too little, too late".

All the things that have been mentioned will/have helped but it's hard to grow more deer without change. Very few people really like change and the DWR is no exception. Option 1 will probably carry the day since it contains the least amount of change.

The one variable which you didn't mention is the predator problem. Since few hunters actually SEE the predators we assume they are not out there. WRONG! They hunt 24/7x365. There is a real impact to the herd health when they're not controlled. If you think we have problems now just wait until the wolves move in and find our game animals. Then what will we hunt?

Ok, let's all go out and shoot a coyote right now and a few more fawns will survive next spring!

I agree.....something need to change to improve the herd count and overall health.

Thanks,
Zeke

 

[lonetree]

+1 walleye1121 your post is spot on. Allot more deer would survive the season with fewer atv trails open during the hunts!

 

[D13er]

you tards need to behave......tards poach more deer for love and money than any other people of the world....



JB

 

[shotgun1]

The problem isn't fixed because they havn't figured out a way to get rid of all the poaching, party hunting southern Utards.

 

[dropper10]

Very nice post SMELLY, I believe all the things you've mentioned have helped out more than we think. I would hate to see the state of the herd if none of that had been done! I've thought about our deer herds for alot of years now and believe it's definatly a multi-fold problem, we as humans seem to always want a one shot QUICK fix and even more so some QUICK results. But when multiple problems exist, it's a long road to recovery. We as sportsman want what's best for our animals for sure, and it's easy to blame someone, but in my opinion it HAS TO START WITH US. There is nothing wrong with people goin out and gunning down the first 2 point they see but if alot of us continue to do it the results are nasty! Let's set our goals a bit higher and try to kill a nice 3 or 4 point every other year, we will find ourselves hunting alot harder(and higher) and more than likely seeing more deer. And chances are we wont be getting it done from our ATV's. It's a tough subject to tackle because of all the variables, but in my opinion we can do more as hunters than we think we can.

 

[Twoshooter]

I personally think it is predators. Poaching may be an issue for bigger bucks, but predators seem to be number one to me. I wonder if any of the changes over the years have made any difference in the herd. We still manage to kill our fair share as hunters, even with the restrictions. Option 1 wont change a thing. Option 2 might help, if it was actually run right. I think if option 2 was actully followed correctly you would see serious tag cuts and revenue lost for the DNR.

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

shotgun,

I disagree completely. I knew of a lot more party hunting before the draw. Most of us have a tough time staying on track to consistantly draw with friends and family.

 

[sdmuleybuck]

Not being from Utah I probably shouldn't give my opinion. I hunt In North and South Dakota mainly. North Dakota has been experiencing an influx of Mt Lions into the state and now have a resident population. The quota is now at 10 and these cats get harvested primarily by deer hunters during the two week rifle hunt.

Some of the most productive and remote areas that use to have lots of deer are now almost void of deer. What has changed is now there is a presence of mt lions. The deer numbers in general are still very good but you can tell where the lions are or have been because of the lack of deer.

The Game and fish will blame it all own oil activity or the last two harsh winters I belive there is impact from these two but they are variables that can't be changed, predator numbers can. But even before the oil activityt got hot and heavy specific drainages where the cats showed up would be soon void of deer.

I believe if you want to manage deer numbers two a certain level then you have two manage the predators to a level that will have a minimum impact on the deer herd.

That would give the herd a chance to rebound if there is multiple harsh winters. Throw in the oil developement encroachment of people living on the winter ranges, expanding elk populations its a wonder we have any deer at all.

The one variable that can be controlled is the predators. If the Game and Fish agencies would be more aggresive in controlling predators to a low number we would probably start to see an increase in the deer herds across the West. This would be a big step in the right direction. This is not the only answer but a piece of the puzzle that can be easily impemented if the Game and Fish agencies would stop catering to the nonhunters and listen to what the hunters in the field see day in and out.

Wrong or right this is my opinion hope everybody had a good season and remember to take your ideas to your local Game and Fish meetings in what ever State you reside in.

 

[smashngrab]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-19-10 AT 08:50AM (MST)[p]There are a lot of good Ideas posted here but as a hunter in Southern Utah for Twenty years now I have seen the Party Hunting stop, I have watched each and every DWR change come and go, but the truth of the matter is I think us as a State may be done. This is My reasoning behind it.
1. Predators.. I have seen more lions the last 2 yrs while out hunting than the previous 18 yrs combined. I can kill 25 to 30 coyotes a year and then go back the next year and do the same in the same places.
2. Road Kill.. They talk about fencing off I 15 and other major freeways, did anyone think that maybe we kill more deer by doing that than keeping them from getting hit? Take for Instant the Beaver Range, they fenced it off and by doing so blocked off thousands of deer from there winter range so instead of losing 50 deer on the freeway we lose 2000 because the fence them from there winter range. Dose this make sense, Not to me. It has now been fenced for 6 to 7 years and they are finishing the final wildlife Under pass this year so think of how many deer we lost because of that. I know all of this because I was on the Board that the State Road included on the study of the Beaver fencing project as the Hunting group representative. There where some better plans for the wintering Deer Heard but like always are state chose the cheapest and least effective method.
I hope we can figure something out to save our deer but I think it is a bunch of years to late.