Predator control idea

ktg

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Thinking about the times I've gone chasing lions got me wondering if this would be legal. There are harvest objective units for the lion hunt that in the past haven't reached their objective. Not because there aren't lions, but because the houndsmen who chase them don't want to kill them. They tree them and let them go so that they can chase them another day. What if someone, say SFW, offered a 'bounty' in those areas for people who killed a lion. Maybe $100, maybe $300, I don't know what amount would do the trick, but there's an amount that would virtually guarantee that the harvest objective is met. In the overall scheme of things, it would be a relatively inexpensive way to save a few deer.
 
While I agree that a lion can put a pretty good dent in a single deer herd, coyotes are the biggest problem on winter range. This is where your predation is taking it's biggest toll. Put bigger bounties on coyotes. Lets go back to the poisoning days for those hairy critters. That's where you can really make a difference in the predator population.

At least you are coming up with solution ktg. That is much appreciated.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
Wow here's an idea you are an idot! You think that the lion is the only problem? all the post on this web sight are totally against the lion. Do your home work before you post! Up the tags on the lion wow all of you out there that are supposed to be all about the game and how it is managed missed acouple a meetings so I guess you really give a S#IT. The tags on lion have already been raised OOHH imagine that but thanks for being at the meeting trophy hunters. For you KTG if you were a trophy hunter do you hunt cats and if you do do you want a big tom? Get your ##### together just because the deer hunt has been bad the last five years don't blame it on everything else we our more of apart of it than you think!!!!
 
killing predators should be the first thing we try harder at . to help the deer. put bountys on all of them.....
 
mojo, how much did they up the tags on lions? 1-2 tags on harvest objective units tops. People don't hunt cats on their own because most don't want the hassle of owning dogs. Like myself, when I draw my tag I have to hire a guide with dogs. But, like you said above, I really don't give a S#IT about the cats!!!!! If I get a tag great if I don't , I don't care as long as they are not killing any more game.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-10 AT 06:36AM (MST)[p]I think you forgot to take your pill bro. It usually takes at least 20-25 post before someone turns into a zealot.

I don't give a rip about cats either... btw.

Reality is there is only room out there for one top predator. If we desire to continue to hunt it needs to be us. Thats why the greenies have taken the approach of re-introduction and fight any kind of predator hunting. In their minds, if they can put enough predators back out there, there will be no reason to magange big game through hunting. There is a good reason why our western ancestors all but eliminated predators like cats, wolves, bears.... it don't work! They kill our food and eat it before we can, be it big game or live stock. Thats why you can't trap in Arizona or hunt lions in Kalifornia. They don't care whether an animal suffers in a leg hold trap, what they care about is keeping predators in the woods to manage the game so there is no need for us to do it... then theres no reason (again, in their minds) for us to own guns.

Fabian socialism. Control food, control money and take away peoples ability to fight back. Thats where we're headed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-10 AT 07:39AM (MST)[p]They tried to do that here in NV last year.

A $500 bounty on lions. Then when we met the harvest objective the season would shut down as usual.

Thing is a lot of the cats that get let go are females with kittens, or younger adults anyway.

I can tell you one thing, a bounty would have NO - ZERO - NADA - ZILCH - effect on my decision to let a cat go or to kill it. PERIOD.

Even at $500 - that is a drop in the bucket. I have $1200 alone in ONE DOG just for vet bills this year!! One dog, and I have 6 hounds I am feeding. $25 average per WEEK to feed them. $100 just to fill up the truck and get gas for the 4 wheeler (about 3 days hunting or so).

Figure it out, we can't kill enough lions to make a profit on it. The last time there was a bounty, it was before they became protected. Then California shut down lion hunting for good, and other states realized that they had better find a way to keep track of lion kills so they knew how many were being killed every year.

I am not sure about UTAH, but NEVADA has killed more lions in each of the last decades since they became a game animal than the decade before.

Enough of my rant.

Later,

Marcial
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-10 AT 08:28AM (MST)[p]Here's the problem, even if you killed every last predator, unless you increase the carrying capacity of the land, it would all be for naught.

I live and hunt in an area where it's been years since they have filled the harvest objective tags for cougar. Not because there aren't guys trying, because there are always a few houndsmen who don't care, but because lions have become increasingly rare.

I remember walking out of a canyon one spring a couple of years ago and seeing all the winter killed deer. Carcasses were piled so high that there weren't enough scavengers to pick their bones. I couldn't help but thinking, we sacrificed the cougar population and what did we save the deer from? Death by starvation?? What a waste.

Save your money boys, spend it on something that will bring back the deer herd.

Sorry, but seeing what I've seen and knowing what I know, this 'kill all the predators' plan makes no sense to me.
 
KTG,

The idea sounds great, but Marcial has a point regarding costs. As long as our entire state is le cat, people are going to hold out for big toms.

I just wish they would provide a few areas that have no quotas or give out female tags. Open up Pine Valley Mountain, Wellsvills, Monroe and the Oquirrahs for 3 years and then I'll shut up.
 
Kevin,

Do a little research on the Browse Unit. No winter kill in south Washington County. What has happened to the herd there? Even when it was limited entry it got worse. There are definitely parts of this state where the cats are suffocating the deer population just like wolves and elk in other states.
 
Unless I'm mistaken, tags in harvest objective units are unlimited, over the counter, until the objective is met, and is good for either sex. I'm sure there are some houndsmen who, towards the end of the season, would decide they were done for the year and would kill the last cat they find, just for the bounty. Times are tight and a few hundred bucks is a few hundred bucks, whether you spent $1 or a million running dogs that year.
Coyotes are a problem, maybe bigger overall than lions, IDK. But a bounty on coyotes will cost a ton more per deer saved than this idea.
BTW, I have been an idiot at times, but not for this idea. Oh, and I'm rubber & you're glue.
 
SmellyBuck,

Do a little research and you'll find that the Wellsville's, a part of the Cache unit, has been under a predator management plan for not just 3, but over 10 years now with unlimited over the counter harvest objective tags and no female sub quota. There hasn't been statewide LE cougar tags for going on 20 years now.
 
Here in Cache Valley they have pretty well killed all the lions, they had OTC tags, harvest objective tags and government trappers for several years. Hunters killed hundreds of cats, who knows how many the feds got, but it hasn't done a thing for the deer population.

In a healthy environment, where you have alot of prey you will have alot of predators, I don't believe that lions have much effect on the overall deer population. Coyotes and wolves on the other hand, I believe can cause some serious damage. They populate much faster, they pack up, and there are just more lopes/wolves than cats.

Winter kills, we can't control. Mother nature is just a #####

loss of habitat, partly our fault, we can help restore

predators, we can manage better, kill more coyotes in my opinion

road kills, IDK if this affects the overall population? I see deer miles from the nearest road.

hunting, definetely needs to be addressed

sickness, unknown?

It's an ugly battle but what else are we going to do?
 
right now the anthro in norheaster utah. could have 4 times the deer we have.sfw rmef. the state. the ute tribe., have spent close to 200.ooo on ground and projects. preators are the major factor in the deer not rebounding like they should. and we plan on killing all the lions and coyotes we can..1000 deer hunters. or 1 or two lion hunters . who is going to win.....
 
Thanks Kevin D as hunter we should be out there to help all the wildlife but as we read everybody wants to have their cake and eat it to!!!!
 
Cache is a limited entry area now and I could not go get a tag if I wanted to. There are still plenty of cats on the Wellsvilles. All areas of the state have had quotas.
 
They tried a complete erradication of predators in the East humbolts here in Nv. a few years back and it did nothing for the deer herd. There were few coyotes and no lions left there and it did not help. I quit even going there for lions as there were NONE.

Another thing we have seen here in Nv. is the anti's are watching the management of lions closely hopeing to find a reason to sue NDOW to stop the hunting of lions. They have alot of the non-hunting public believing lions are endangered too.

I believe killing off lions is a single species minded approach to game management and it is wrong. Some people live to hunt lions, coyotes and bears or whatever. just like some of you live just to hunt deer,birds or elk. I spend TONS of money and time on hunting and training hounds. I would even venture to say that I am in the hills more and spend more $ than 90% of other sportsmen. A bounty will NEVER be collected by me or my dogs!!
I hate hunting birds, it's boring to me. And them little bastards spook me when I'm stalking a deer..... so should we kill them all off just so they dont blow my next deer stalk for me? Do you see where I am going here?
 
Where I live in northern Saskatchewan we have a good populations of whitetail,moose and a growing elk and mule deer herd. We also have large populations of wolves, coyotes and bear. I think it is unrealistic when dealing with the dynamics of mother nature to believe that there will be great hunting every year. Winters probably impact game populations more than anything-our moose population was low a few years back and a bulls only season was brought in which seemed to address that. We find more winter kills and predator kills than we used to but that is a result of the overall population just being higher.
 
Like others, I believe the decline in trophy mule deer is a culmination of many things.
I believe controlling the predator population helps, but controlling the human population works even better.
We are the ultimate predator.
The current rage of trophy hunting and the obsession with inches of antler sure ain't helping things.
All of the fancy european binoculars, spotting scopes, 1000 yard rifles, 80 yard plus archery gear, 300 yard muzzleloaders and of late the trail cams that take away one of wildlife's greatest defenses, dark of night, then there is the parade of quads that open up access like never before.
A pretty grim future if you ask me.

Look at the prime limited entry units across the west, while not what they may have once been they continue to produce fine trophies mostly because they offer so damn few tags.

I think the biggest problenm of all is us.
Wildlife simply cannot compete with our ever growing technology and population.
HH
 

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