Is there 301,700 deer in Utah?

[goofyelk]

Here are the latest deer numbers from the 2009 report..
They show unit and estimated deer numbers on the unit.
Out of curiosity, take a minute, look at the unit YOU hunt,
Do you guys think the numbers are right on the unit you hunt on?


Box Elder 16100
Cache 15050
Ogden 6900
Morgan-South Rich 8000
East Canyon 8500
Chalk Creek 8100
Kamas 6400
North Slope 5950
South Slope, Yellowstone 10300
South Slope, Vernal / Diamond Mtn. 13200
Book Cliffs 8050
Nine Mile 4900
San Rafael 1000 ? ? ? ? ?
La Sal 7800
San Juan 16400
Henry Mountains 1400
Centrals Mountains, Manti 20900
Central Mountains, Nebo 11500
Wasatch Mountains, Diamond Fork /
Heber / Timpanogos 16500
Wasatch Mountains, Currant Creek 9500
Wasatch Mountains, Avintaquin 1700
Wasatch Mountains, Salt Lake 1650
Oquirrh-Stansbury 8000
West Desert 8100
Southwest Desert 1600
Fillmore 9500
Beaver 11000
Monroe 7100
Mount Dutton 2400
Plateau 15500
Kaiparowits 400
Paunsaugunt 5800
Panguitch Lake 10500
Zion 9600
Pine Valley 13400
Statewide totals 301700

 

[ktg]

>North Slope 5950
>South Slope, Yellowstone 10300
>South Slope, Vernal / Diamond Mtn.
>13200


North Slope: Half that
South Slope, Yellowstone: Half that
South Slope, Vernal / Diamond Mtn: Here's the problem, Diamond may have 10,000 deer, but it's a limited entry unit. To combine population numbers for Diamond Mtn. & Vernal is retarded. Ya, I'd say the South Slope between Yellowstone & Diamond Mtn Might have the other 3000 deer.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

If the Wasatch/Diamond Fork herd has 16,500 animals in it the must all be somewhere besides Diamond Fork, the Waters, Yellow Jacket, Maple Mountain, or Hobble Creek. I don't know about the other areas but this area is totally inflated. Where are they counting these numbers from?


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[goofyelk]

I believe almost all of them are over inflated,,I also
feel the best place we could start with Utah's deer
management would be with some better, more accurate deer
counts......
If option 2 passes the board, I'd say start right there.

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

10,300 in Yellowstone!
GEEZUS!
Let's just put it this way:
300 is closer than 10,300!
UN-REAL!

Can somebody tell me what the multiplication factor is when the see/count one Deer?

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!

I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!

 

[lonetree]

I'm no biologist but I do spend allot of time looking for deer in the Ogden unit. I must say 6900 deer seems like a very inflated number. If these count numbers are in fact wrong, or dare I say fabricated. In my mind, the whole buck to doe ratio plan goes out the window. How can a solid plan be put in place IF... the overall count numbers are not accurate!!!

 

[Prism]

The devil is in the details.

I've been sitting back watching all of these Utah deer posts for quite some time. I've known for several years it was just a matter of time before Utah got sick of its lack of deer and quality deer hunting. The writing has been on the wall for several years, regardless of how great the dwr or conservation groups have tried to paint our muley situation.

Just a few years ago I remember hearing "the good old days" are back...

Utah's lack of solid harvest data and overall population numbers has basically left no one accountable for the mess we're currently in.

You've probably heard the saying...."What goes into your mouth today ends up on your a$$ tomorrow." We've been fed a bunch of BS for years and now we're stuck with a stinkin mess. We can sit on here and argue for months about this and that, but until we know what we've got for harvest and actual deer numbers we're wasting our time.

The numbers are a poor guess at best.

Harvest reporting should be mandatory.

 

[30plus]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-10 AT 10:02PM (MST)[p]These numbers are all based on comp. models so they must be right on. notice how the Manti actually increased from 2008 to 2009 the increase was small but they have it. But according to the fawn survival numbers and info given from our big game coordinator in direct answer to Dkpeay at the central RAC a herd needs 45 fawn to 100 doe to remain stable let alone an increase in herd size. then look at the spring counts and you will see that there was a 32/100 survival so how did the herd grow? then notice the Central DWR office doesn't even have any spring counts listed, they may have been counting june suckers at the mouth of hobble creek not sure, that is a core specie to the future of hunting. Guys there is no doubt in my mind there are those of you that given 2-3 weeks could get better more accurate counts then we are being given in that report. I know the DWR spent more time counting prairie dogs in San Juan county last spring than they did deer.
Also on the Manti notice how the 3 year average of buck to doe ratio does not match with the 3 year average given to the RACs on the report its at 14 wich would have it going to a shorter season under currant mangement plan but that was left out of the RACs. makes a guy wonder

 

[southslope82]

Wow there is no way I would guess 10300 for South Slope Yellowstone...... That actually blows me away. Really I mean Really,,, come one the South slope Of Yellowstone having more deer than the Book Cliffs. LOL yeah right.. They need to take a random drug test before they go counting. They could count each deer as 5 and still not get 10300.
Nine Mile 4900 deer... They must live in some cave out there that number seems a little steep to me too. But Maybe they accidentaly added the two zeros to 49. 4900? maybe I doubt that.
Wasatch Mountains, Salt Lake- I can beleive that #1650 is very reasonable I would have guessed there might even be a few more than that out there.
Thats Crazy about the South slope of Yellowstone though. i Spend huge portions of time on that area, You could not get me to beleive that drunk.. ##### no wonder the deer herds are hurting!!



South Slope, Yellowstone 10300
Book Cliffs 8050
Nine Mile 4900
Wasatch Mountains, Salt Lake 1650

 

[southslope82]

Wish I had them #'s to take to the RAC.. They layed low just long enough to avoid a ton of problems. I probably won't sleep tonight now ... - that blows my socks off.

 

[Tworay]

These numbers are a farce. These numbers from the division (Anis) are just published so he can make the point that Utah can't carry anymore deer. Too many biologists sitting behind computers using models to estimate animal counts. What happened to field work.

 

[BowHuntr]

I have hunted the Manti and Nine Mile for the past 16 years. Also, my job in the natural resource field enables me to be out in the field throughout the Manti for 6 months out of the year.

Those numbers are no where close to being accurate. 20k deer on the manti? That's almost laughable. It might be half that number...if that. Same with Nine Mile.

What do we have to do in this state to get a solid mule deer mangement plan put in place?


BowHuntr

 

[Camper_A1]

Monroe-7100
Dutton-2400

It looks like they had the 3 day hunt on the wrong unit go figure.

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

Hey Sloper!

You noticed the same thing I did on the Yellowstone?

UN-FRICKEN-BELIEVABLE!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!

I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!

 

[LOWCOUNTRY]

15500 on the boulder wth. More like 1/3 that number. Cut the Dutton in half as well. The Kaparowits might be a solid number but thats talking about 3 million acres.

 

[South_slope]

On the southslope.....

Maybe they counted all the deer on the tribal property and the hayfields between Tabiona and Neola.

So when we break the numbers down it is 300 on the forest side and 10,0000 unaccessable to the general public.

I grew up out there, but I gave up hunting it long ago.

 

[cannonball]

To any of those of you who spend any time looking at deer on the Monroe and encompassed all of the winter range. A 7000 count means that 1/2 the deer winter on top of the mountain in four feet of snow. A lot of other Southern Utah units look way off to me. These counts looks like "BooBoo City".

 

[nutsaboutbucks]

No way can these even in the ball park counts! If you can go to the books and count at least a 60-80 head in one day, with a total head count of 8050 deer. And then go to Filmore and maybe count 20 in a day, with a head count of 9500 and half the acerage something is ###### UP!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[conch]

Looking at the units I'm familiar with I would say the multiplication factor used during the counting process is x 4. I hope I'm wrong. But I doubt it this time.

 

[cantkillathing]

Now you guys understand why I was upset with the san juan count...........never going to get an admission that the module being used is off, way off.

 

[nutsaboutbucks]

Where is fishon and ultimatehornhunter? I figured they would what to post their 01 cent worth on the deer counts.

 

[nutsaboutbucks]

>Where is fishon and ultimatehornhunter? I
>figured they would what to
>post their 01 cent worth
>on the deer counts.


Corrction TheEliteHorn Hunter

 

[dillon]

I really don't think that there are that many deer in the state. My problem is that I have done a lot of statistics in my day and it is very hard to estimate with accuracy the number of deer. If you go into an area and see 400 deer and you plug it into a formula and get 9,000 you have only seen .0444 percent of the population. Does anyone else see this as a problem?

It is also impossible to go out and count every single animal. So what do we do? I say we focus on something we can control. That being hunter harvest of bucks. (since we don't really hunt does in Utah for the most part). If we make it mandatory to report your hunt people will have to provide information that is actual to the state. We should base our hunts off that value and the original statistical approach that the state has been using for years. The combination reduces the chance of error and has greater significance.

Just my view.

Dillon

 

[buglinbilly]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-10 AT 05:29PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-10 AT 05:28?PM (MST)

East Canyon has more deer than the Bookcliffs. That pretty much says how accurate the count seems to be.

Utah's mule deer is hurting and something drastic needs to be done, but it just won't happen. There are just too many hunters who aren't willing to give up a few years and let the herds come back a bit. Cut the permits in half, and double the fee and in five years I bet we would see huge results.

Have a great bowhunt. BB

 

[TheElitehornhunter]

I don't believe that the DWR's number are totally accurate, but it's the only numbers that we have right now. Option 2 wont make the numbers any better than they are right now because it's the same people counting and the same model used to estimate populations.