UT 3 day vs 60 for cwmu

treedagain

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-10 AT 08:35PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-10 AT 08:34?PM (MST)

Can anyone say they were happy to see the general public have 3 and 5 day hunts while the CWMU's still get there full 2 month season???? looks like we saved a few deer for their paying clients.....
 
Yeah I think it is crap that trophy mule deer hunting in utah has become such a rich man only opportunity. I hunt with a bow so I can't complain about being able to hunt alot but nice bucks are few and far between. I went out today on the wasatch front and I saw far more hunters than bucks.
Utah is retarded when it comes to mule deer management, within a few years we aren't going to have a general season and the only people who will be hunting are those paying big money for CWMU tags and the few lucky ones to draw limited entry tags.
 
I once asked this question and a high up state biologist told me that every CWMU hunter is promised a 5 day hunt. So when your average CWMU has around 20 tags. Your CWMU's vary greatly in acreage. A main focus of CWMU tags is to provide a hunt that has high quality. In order to maintain this satisfaction and quality you have to only let a few guys hunt at a time. That is why they get 60 days to space out there hunters.

My thought is that they get way to many tags. I know for a fact that most CWMU units do not have enough quality bucks to fill ever tag with a good buck.

I am pretty sure it illegal for CWMU tags to be used off of the CWMU and nothing makes me more angry than to see them hunting off the property in a suspicious manner.
 
Stick

you shoot the arrow right in the bullseye.

The Utah general season is a joke, more hunters than deer. So, why are so many hunters opposed to doing what 40% of teh hunters want, have a quality hunt - meaning more game, less hunters ?

The CWMU operators kill very small percentage of the game on their places, a few hunters, high sucess, uncrowded conditions.

Utah's limited entry hunts are the equivalent.

The problem is there are far to few limited entry hunts, far to many hunters want them so the draw options are once in a lifetime, or so as you point out.

If 40% of Utah's deer herds were manged for "limited entry" and 60% were managed for general season, this would match the hunters desires, per the UDWR survey.

60 % of hunters say they want to hunt every year, don't care about crowding, don't care about big or little bucks. Fine, let them do that.

40% of hunters want to hunt "quality" once every 3-4 years. Fine, let them do that.

I predict over time, more and more hunters would shift and say i would rather hunt less and have a better experience when i do get to go.

Why not manage Utah's deer hunts the way hunters want it, not just keep it all the same, which as you point out, mostly sucks ?

OUr family is done buying general season deer tags and so are thousands of others.

For those who claim better management elimanates hunters, perhaps more hunters quit because the experience is not worth the time and money to go out and see more hunters than deer.
 
Don:

Your idea of managing the state 40% LE and 60% general would be great if the 40% would not try and hunt the general areas. The problem with Utah?s current system is people can go in the general hunts and build points for the LE which creates a bottleneck. I would be willing to bet that 60% of the units would now have 95% of the hunters. In a few years the LE units would great for the wealthy who could buy the tags and of course the 5% given to the conservation organizations. Given the current system in Utah (lets round to 100,000 tags) that would put 40,000 deer tags into the LE. Even if you dropped the tags on the LE by 75% that gives 10,000 deer tags for LE. That also gives 500 more tags to the conservation organizations (i.e. you) and the general hunters in Utah loose 30,500 tags. Do you really think that is a good idea? The way I see it, Utah would now have 100,000 people putting in for 69,500 tags.

I would like to see Utah go to a system wherein a person has to choose between building LE points OR hunting every year. A point system that is a little more like AZ. People could put in for the LE hunt but if they take a general season tag they loose there points for that species. The DWR could charge the same fee for the point as the tag. The DWR would not loose any money. The people who want to hunt could use their points for a general tag and the people who want the LE experience could save their points for the LE hunts. Both groups would benefit. Fewer people in the bottleneck for the LE crowd and fewer people on the general hunts for the hunt every year group.

Also Don Peay please respond to my PM.
 
utah 400,

have not received a pm from you.

you make a GREAT point, make hunters choose, apply only for general season permits - 60,000 hunters go there.

and the 40,000 hunters only applying for 10,000 tags on higher "limited entry hunts: gives about 1 tag every four years.

WE basically agree on this concept, give hunters what they say they want, force them to then live with their choice.

The 40% who want quality are happy to NOT get a tag every year, the are "cutting their own 30,000 tags", by choice.

the years these hunters don't draw, they will go with friends and family who do, or hunt some other state for something else. It is completely false to argue these hunters are going to quit hunting.

the 60% get to hunt mostly every year as they want.

how hard is this one to figure out ?
 
MY main issue with the current CWMU system is that with the exception of a few operators that control enough property to include both the summer and winter range they are stealing deer from the public. If you think about it they have 60 days to weed thru every deer that comes thru there property from summer to winter range.

The public guys get there 3 to 5 marginal days on the most crappy piece of the property and the operator gets 2 months to pick thru every deer...great for the operator not so for joe public... take almost any 5000 acres and 2 months to hunt and sooner than later the deer will show up...think about it...

i know there are some GREAT cwmu's out there that treat there public guys right, but the 2 or 3 that do.....do not makeup for the rest...

I have heard the arguement that they provide opprotunity to the public on ground they never would have had access to in the 1st place....BS.....BS...it has blocked and eliminated opprotunity for ALOT of hunters, far more than it has created, use northern Ut as an example. every year there is more and more cwmu's in the guidebook.

At the very least make the CWMU operators give equal time and access on there property and when they validate there vouchers have them pick the same amount of continuos days that was given to the public
 
Don:

Could it be...you and I see eye to eye. I agree with you. The quality people need to choose hunt every few years or hunt every year. I don't think Utah support both. I am a quality guy and would choose a LE hunt over general but I don't think it's fair to push everybody into my ideal. I still remember the magic of the first few deer hunts. I think my first two pint is still one of my biggest trophies:)

I will resend the PM. Please respond via PM either way.
 
Memo to DK: Unless the DWR waves the two year waiting period I doubt a hunter will be able to draw a tag every 4 years. More than likely it would be 6-8 years between hunts. I would think That would cause more than a few hunters to drop out of our ranks. Good thing or bad?.. I believe there is strength in numbers moreso than fewer hunters with more expendable income.
 
The post above is correct. Most hunters on CWMU get a 5 day hunt. Some get a few more if the landowner is willing. They spread the pressure out over 2 months so the tag holders (both public and paying clients) get a good hunt. I can promise you one thing, it's a headache running a CWMU. I don't know the numbers for CWMU tags statewide but if you start restricting these CWMU operators I know some of them will close up shop. Families that own these properties would be able to hunt their own land with a general season tag and the public won't step foot on it anymore. CWMU's provide a lot of opportunity for the public that would not be there otherwise. If you are one who gripes about the 200 expo tags being taken out of the general pool, just wait until you don't have a CWMU program anymore. The public will lose triple that amount. They also actually micromanage their own land. It works if there are deer in the area.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
Jim:

I agree with you. However, the CWMU's need to be held to a higher standard. There are CWMU's who abuse the system and most, if not all on here know it.

Until the CWMU's guarantee the "drawn" hunters, the exact same days and exact opportunities as the paying hunters, the CWMU program is a flat out lie.

To those CWMU's who are on board with the rules(like Deseret), I say keep up the good work. To the others that abuse it, I say you are a liar and lack integrity. You signed up for the program, therefore, live by the rules!
 
+1 woodruff!! Not all but Some cwmu operators/outfitters are beyond shady. Between trespassing on non cwmu private and public LE land to fill clients tags, to collecting trophy fees from public hunters because they shot to large of an animal. Some cwmu's are pressured nearly as much as general public land.
 
I talked about tag for tag on cwmu's at the nothern rack and also asked why they get so many days to hunt also how they access the amount of tags they get and this is what they said
the cwmu get a percentage of the tags if they own 50% of the unit they get 50% of the tags. then they the cwmu decides if the want a 90/10 or 85/15 split if they choose the 90/10 then the public get all the cow doe tags.
the cwmu are managed for 100% success rate the dnr say they the cwmu's only kill something like 20 or 25% of the unit numbers so that is why they get to hunt so long.
I also talked to the lady that runs the kennicot cwmu. she said that if they did tag for tag that they would drop out of the program. because it would be to much liability to have that many public hunters. I said that would be fine then we could transplant all the wildlife off of there kenicot island.
I also talked with justin richins about preditors and how much of a problem they were. he was all for killing them right until I said then you will give me permision to hunt preditors on his leased land then it was oh no. I don't know what you will be shooting. I said preditor's.
i know alot of hunters that used to hunt private land that can't anymore because of the cwmu programe. I think that it just opened the door to making the whole state high dollar hunting.
 
The last time I checked in America majority rules. 40% is not a majority, but they sure want things they way they like.
 
It's just like anything else Woody, there's always a few bad apples that spoil the bunch. The CWMU's that I hunt are really good with the public hunters. They go out of their way to make sure these guys have a good successful hunt. It is equal time and they can hunt anywhere the paying clients can. In fact, one ranch, the public hunters get first crack at the elk and deer and the landowner is very liberal with days afield. I have heard stories and for those that have wasted their points on bad experiences I'm sorry. They are not all like that and I agree, they should be held to a high standard.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
As it was said alot of landowners would drop out the CWMU and hunt there own land and the pulic wouldn't be able to hunt it any more. Well to me that don't sound too bad in someplaces that give the deer and elk somewhere to stay and not be hunted non-stop for 2 months. CWMU policing itself is a funny deal it kind of like Trusting the Gov. at first it works then the lines start running together.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
wholelottabull' what are ou a paid rep for the cwmu. let some body else say somthing 'whith out your play by play'
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-10 AT 02:40PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-10 AT 02:37?PM (MST)

>As it was said alot of
>landowners would drop out the
>CWMU and hunt there own
>land and the pulic wouldn't
>be able to hunt it
>any more. Well to me
>that don't sound too bad
>in someplaces that give the
>deer and elk somewhere to
>stay and not be hunted
>non-stop for 2 months. CWMU
>policing itself is a funny
>deal it kind of like
>Trusting the Gov. at first
>it works then the lines
>start running together.
>
Gator: I agree 100%. If they don't like the rules, get out!
If crooked CWMU's don't like the rules, I really hope they get out of the program.
 

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