UBA is selfish and unreasonable

B

brutus

Guest
UBA makes me sick with their narrowminded veiws and unwillingness to comprimise for whats best for the deer herd and management of those deer. Listening to board meeting the division even said micro-manage is the best way to manage but will take away some hunter oppurtunity. Plus STATEWIDE ARCHERY would probably be over and thats the only reason their against it. What a bunch of arrogant, selfrightous, selfish people!The only thing UBA is against is micro-manage. They only want statewide archery, dont care about anything else but that. Newsflash, status quo ie regionwide hunting hasnt worked. If it had we'd have plenty of deer. WE DONT! GEEZUS I hope UBA doesnt represent most bowhunters! They certainly dont represent me. All micro-manage is going to do is better distribute hunters. Bowhunters are hunters just the same as muzzleloader hunters and rifle hunters.Bowhunters shouldnt be treated any differently. Try and make the same sacrifice that every other hunter has already made.

Sure it will PO some people but thats my opinion of them.

PS I bowhunt so dont think that i hate bowhunters
 
I agree Brutus! I will even add that if it is so good to reduce the rifle hunt to 5 days then the bowhunt should be cut to 14. If it is good for one group it is good for all.
 
Just playing devil's advocate...But what do you expect UBA to do? Comparing the rifle to archery hunt is apples to oranges. I would dare say the majority of archery only guys don't want the state wide hunt to go away.
Traditional only >>>------->
 
I know i bowhunt and different bowhunters i've talked too are in favor of choosing units. but thats southern.dont know about northern
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-10 AT 01:26PM (MST)[p]
Certainly from the stand point of most rifle hunters, most muzzy guys and even some bow hunters, UBA is selfish. At least it seems to look that way from what they want and what they say.

But if one looks into what they want, from deeper than the surface, it is anything but selfish. And here?s why I say that!

Our mule deer herds are struggling and things need to be done that will really help the herd. Of the all the weapon choices, archery by far, has the smallest percent of kill and impact on the herd, therefore they can be allowed to hunt longer and give more tags than the other forms of hunting. If this state could and would realize, if they made archery hunting more attractive, it would pull people from the other weapon types and thus lower the higher impact weapons, while at the same time, make the other hunts better for the people who choose to remain rifle or muzzle loading.

Let's say they kept the state wide bow hunt, gave archer?s a 30 day season, and unlimited tags, while cutting the rifle tags in half and limiting them to 5 or 7 day hunts and they did the same with muzzleloader season with the exception of giving them a 10 day hunt. Besides being totally unfair and absurd (at least from most of the rifle guys at this point) what effect do you think it would have on each of the hunting seasons?

First let's take the rifle season. It would mean much less crowding for those in the field and a better chance of success. It would also mean, that for those that really still wanted to hunt, that if they desired, they could still go archery hunting. That means they could hunt for 30 days instead of 5 and go state wide, rather than to be limited to just one small area. Or they could try for a muzzleloader permit and have twice as long to hunt as if they had chosen to rifle hunt.

It would also mean the Divison could still collect the same money with a smaller tag fee increase.

Now lets look a little closer at what this would do to those selfish bow hunters. Within a few years, it would more than double the number of hunters in the field, thus reducing the percent of kill, per hunter, by a great margin.

People will only migrate from the rifle hunt, to less impact hunts (archery and muzzleloader), in great numbers, if there is good reason to do so. State wide hunting, and longer seasons and knowing one can hunt each year, will force many hands, that otherwise would never happen.

I am a die hard bowhunter, but I can tell you from first hand experience, its not an easy hunt and the more people afield hurts one?s chances of success, significantly. But most bowhunter?s would be willing to accept this huge burden, in the hopes that it will help, not only Utah?s mule deer herd, but hunting in general.

And the real winners in this would be the mule deer and the guys who had the rifle tags, not the bow hunters, as they really would be bearing most of the burden.

So when viewed in depth, UBA and BOU positions, are not nearly as selfish or one sided, as they might seem on the surface.

The real selfish people in this fight are the ones who feel they have the right to hunt, each and every year, with any weapon they might choose and don't fully understand the complexity of our problem and won't look beyond their own self-centered motives.

Have a good one. BB
 
I bowhunt, and don't really care either way. I only hunt the same area though, so I never took advantage of the statewide hunt anyway. I do hunt the wasatch extended though and would miss that. The only reason I bowhunt is because of the longer season. With a shorter season, I would just switch to rifle.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-10 AT 01:34PM (MST)[p]I was at the BOU meeting last month, we discussed the statewide archery. It was recommended that we present keeping it but only to those that can certify that they can shoot a bow, and that they have passed a bowhunting class. Many states in the US require this before they allow hunters to into the field with a bow..

To get more support for this I recommended that it also be opened up to ball and cap muzzy guys for statewide. I don't think this is about archery vs muzzy vs rifle. I think of this as providing opportunity for HUNTERS and allowing more hunters in the field with less of an impact on the herds.
 
Well IMO the reason i choose to bowhunt is increased oppurtunity and to locate better bucks. I think that archery is booming in the state when you go from leftover tags two years ago to half of the applicants not drawing 2nd choice thats substantial. I love the bowhunt because the deer are in they're summer habits and not holed up.But dont think bowhunters should be able to hunt statewide as they would hit the hottest units out of the 29. I'll still bowhunt cause i love it, just think bowhunters already get enough with the 5 week season.
 
Lets treat everyone the same? They are not the same, pick up a bow and try it and youll see what i mean. If we want it to be fair give the same # of tags to all the weapons...
here it comes

Shoot em till their dead
 
Dont disagree with same amount of tags for all weapons. Dont think the division we'll be able to sellout the tags though. But agreed on tag distribution.
 
BRUTUS, Dude you are a piece of work.






*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
I am not part of UBA because I vary from what they tend to present at meetings about 70% of the time. I think they were thinking about themselves more than the deer at the meeting today and that hurt them. I am a bow hunter through and through, and I don't think you need the whole state to find a deer. I was ticked when they went back to a statewide archery hunt, so now rather than just a region choice for the first 2 weeks of the hunt it will be unit based. I am all in favor of what the board voted to do. Pick your weapon and your unit and learn how to find deer where you draw your tag.

I know my comments are different from many people on this site and that is fine. The board was more worried about the deer herd than the hunters opportunity today.
 
UH Dillon..... If the Board was worried about the HERDS
why did they adopt policy that every person with a background in BIOLOGY told them wouldn't help one bit???

Just like BAIR said..... Nothing more than a CIVIL WAR.






*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
Brutus----

YOU DA MAN, tellin it like it is. ARCHERY is the reason for the downfall of deer hunting in the state of Utah. All those damn archers and their statewide hunting.

On the other hand all you guys calling for fair is fair. You are excited at the thought of no more state wide archery and shortening the season dates to make sure that everyone feels the pain..............WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY AND GIVE THE ARCHERY AND MUZZLE LOADER GUYS AN EQUAL NUMBER OF TAGS?????? Probabally be a little too painful.

I love to hunt archery and am fond of my long gun and ML too. If things start to get too restrictive I'll be back in the pool that gives me the best chance to draw.

I'd think that most hunters would want MORE hunters in less successful hunts/weapons. It benefits everyone and lets more people hunt, even with a lower success rate. That was my main reason to go archery. It was a longer season which was more flexible for me.

A few of my friends who are archers and I were talking the other day. We got onto the subject of a shorter archery season and about half of us thought if the season gets too short we will probabally all go for a more successful weapon.

This isnt a direct poke at the rifle guys. This isnt meant to be a foot stomp.

I'm just saying that I love to hunt deer. I love archery, but the weapon isnt the be all end all. I love to hunt with my guns too. If the season gets to be too short and too much of a hassle to get out with my bow I'll grab my gun and have at it.



respect my authorita
 
I don't believe in these groups but would like to say that the UBA is the ONLY group who listens to their hunters and fights for them, SFW has screwed the Utah hunter more than we know and still has a big say in how this State is going to be hunted, if UBA rulled like they did we would have more bucks and does still alive and wouldn't of had to go to this STUPID option 2 program that will destroy our herds over the next 5 years!
 
Brutus,
I nominate you for quote of the century.

You are spot on!!

Seriously though. The UBA is out of control. I am a bow hunter first and I totally disagree with the ideas and stand points that the UBA has presented in the last two months. Not once in the last 3 months did they come up with an idea that would help our deer herds. All they cared about was the state wide archery and the extended hunt. In the end the lack of creativity and inability to come up with a positive idea to help the deer herds hurt them. Maybe next time the UBA gets a chance to voice an opinion they will do a better job. If that time comes they may also receive the verbal backing from the rest of us.

We can all go back and forth with our ideas but at the end of the day Common Sense prevailed. It is refreshing that the board members heard the majority voice of the sportsman STATE WIDE and made an educated decision that will allow us to better manage our herds and to have a better reaction time to units that have a struggling deer population.
 
There is no doubt the UBA fights for its members. They are very good at it. I don't agree with their desires, but they are strong and stick together. Too bad ALL hunters don't have representation like the bowhunters.
Adamosa,
The rifle and muzzleloader tags come out of the same pool. I have never seen it posted what the actual numbers are for each one. I am sure there are more rifle tags, but theoretically there could be more muzzloader tags than rifle depending on who draws the tags.
 
I thought everybody up north hunted in the south until the extended archery kicked in.
 
>There is no doubt the UBA
>fights for its members.
>They are very good at
>it. I don't agree
>with their desires, but they
>are strong and stick together.
> Too bad ALL hunters
>don't have representation like the
>bowhunters.
>Adamosa,
>The rifle and muzzleloader tags come
>out of the same pool.
> I have never seen
>it posted what the actual
>numbers are for each one.
> I am sure there
>are more rifle tags, but
>theoretically there could be more
>muzzloader tags than rifle depending
>on who draws the tags.
>
 
Bragabit, regardless of which type of gun a utah hunter chooses to hunt with the ratio of gun tags to archery tags is close to 6:1 in favor of guns. If the ratio was equal the overall buck harvest would drop significantly, enough to insure that buck to doe ratio would meet or exceed objectives in all 29 units. UBA understands that and pushed hard to keep incentives to archery hunt in place. When you start forcing archery hunters to hunt with rifles you will see a increase in buck harvest and buck to doe ratios will fall. Statistics prove that more archery opportunity will not harm health of deer herds, quite to the contrary, fewer bucks harvested by more hunters would benifit everyone.
 
>Not once
>in the last 3 months
>did they come up with
>an idea that would help
>our deer herds.

You're kidding right? What interest does the UBA have in suggesting massive increases in archery opportunity? Who in the archery community does this benifit? How does asking for an increase in permits of your weapon choice benifit the person asking? It's a double edged sword. More permits means more opportunity to hunt with your weapon of choice, but also means a significant decrease in success rate during that hunt.

What the UBA has suggested since it's inception is massive increases in archery opportunity and decreases in rifle opportunity to help our deer herd while maintaining the opportunity to hunt quality bucks year in and year out.

To suggest otherwise means you're either being dishonest or show a serious lack of intelligence.
 
No one is taking the bowhunt away from bowhunters. UBA did not understand this. Every other state manages so many bowhunters,muzzleloader hunters, riflehunters, per unit as to guard against overhunting of certain units. Nobody is tellin bowhunters they cant hunt. UBA's position was they were unwilling to take nothing less than statewide. Not sure what was meant by "you start forcing archery hunters to hunt with rifles you will see an increase in buck harvest and buck doe ratio will fall"? There is only so many rifle tags issued regardless who gets them. I know alot of bowhunters that also rifle hunt. Doesnt make sense to me.
 
Brutus, I hunt several western states and most have statewide archery except NV an CO. I feel confident in saying that a archery hunter turned gunhunter will be more successful than visa versa. If you have a fixed number of tags you will definetely reduce harvest by putting more of those tags in the hands of archers...does that make sense?
 
Neither dishonest nor lacking intelligence.

My biggest issue is that we have no idea what are deer herd is in Utah. I was at the Rac meetings when a representative from the UBA stood up, read a piece of paper that someone e-mailed him and then left the building. The UBA representative had no interest in what anyone else was saying. He could care less. He stated what the UBA wanted and he left.

I know that he did not represent all UBA members but at that meeting he stood up told us his name and that he was speaking on behalf of the UBA. He did not give one good idea as to how we could increase the buck to doe ratio or the deer numbers.

Here is my other beef with Archery hunting. Again I want to reiterate that I love bow hunting. We all know the success numbers are inaccurate. How many people walk into the local bow shop the day before the hunt to tune up the bow get some arrows refletched and then jump in the bed of the pick up truck the next morning flinging arrows at anything with horns. I have witnessed people shoot deer in the morning not find them and shoot and wound another deer that night and not find it.

I know that is not you. However a vast majority of bow hunters hunt that way. It is the ugly truth. Yes there are a few things that we can do such as a class or an online ethics course. However at the end of the day an online ethic course is not going to change how most of these people hunt. Even with this problem the archery success rates are lower than rifle but lets not pretend that they are as good as the number reflects.

I also don't agree in a massive increase in archery tags and decrease in rifle/ML tags. Yes the archery success rate is lower than the other weapons but why should a guy that likes to rifle hunt have to suffer because we are giving more tags to the archery hunters.

We have a major deer number problem. Instead of allocating tags to a different weapon why don't we address the problem. We didn't have to many rifle hunters 10 years ago but now we do? In my opinion and it is my opinion only I believe that the UBA has been very selfish.
 
not sure that is a good argument to take from one to give to another. I could see a argument to have equal oppurtunity ie equal tags. Thats more than reasonable. I also think the only reason they want more archery tags is to promote their own sport. Not neccesarily to improve buck to doe ratio's. That might be a side affect but, from all ive seen with ALL self interests groups they usually use the most appealing side affect to promote their own agenda. I still say the dwr would never be able to sell that many bow tags. Thats what is holding up equal tag allocation. Not greedy rifle hunters.

Just curious how many gutshot archery deer never get found for the harvest survey? Just sayin.
 
Dikinthedirt wrote:
"Statistics prove that more archery opportunity will not harm health of deer herds".
Do you guys actual believe this! And you complain about the DWRs statistics!
Every day that a hunter is in the field regardless of weapon affects the deer herd!
The extent that archery hunters affect the deer is less than rifle, I agree with that. No one in their right mind would say that archery hunters have NO affect on the deer herd.
Are you saying if you put 10,000 archery hunters or 20,000 archery hunters in the field the result will be the exact same?
If the archery hunt is 28 days does it have the same affect on the deer herd as a 14 day hunt would?
 
Bragabit I was talking in comparison to rifle hunting. Success rates with archery hunting is about half of what rifle hunters enjoy. This post was originally about UBA and selfishness,enticing more hunters to bowhunt is what UBA is trying to do. This would in fact be a positive factor in the overall health of our deer herd. Iowa for example does not allow rifle hunting only archery and muzzleloaders. If you are aware of Iowas whitetail hunting nothing more needs to be said. The archery season in many states are longer than Utahs and they dont seem to suffer any negative effects. I am amazed at the anti-archery sentiment in utah. Just cant quite understand why.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom