State Reps, opinion on the deer options options.....

Sounds like this guy has his head on as square as can be! And yes the racks always have been and always will be a dog and pony show. Just like at the southern rac a rac member utters these words i hate your son of a bitchin deer and i hate your elk even worse now why arent we asking for his resignation immediately . Great piece tony thanks


kody bracken
 
He has more intelligence as a non hunter than most people have as a hunter.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-10 AT 09:48PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-10 AT 09:35?PM (MST)

Check that longshooter338, you need to be a little more careful, he said, "I hate your damn, deer. I hate your elk worse". But not surprising, you forgot to mention his following sentence. Let see if you can tell us all what that statement was because that was the point he as trying yo make. It was not the point that he hated our deer. His point was was: "I hate your damn, deer. The hate your elk worse", But............

FINISH WHAT HE SAID!!

Then he went on to complain about deer in his field. But rather than telling part of the event, finish the point he was making, so our readers learn the whole truth of Dell's remark.

You got the guts to call him out and suggest he be removed from the RAC, have the guts to tell us the rest of his statement so we can see more clearly the person you are.

Because if you don't I will. Then I will forward him your attempt to misrepresent him on a public forum and we'll see how he responds to you.

The guy you're quoting has been fighting the Federal Government over closing your access to the Grand Staircase National Monument since the first day Clinton snatched it away from Utah. If it weren't for Dell LeFever the entire southern center of southern Utah or in other words the Paunsequant Unit would be off limits to any deer hunting and any other uses of the land would be a thing of the past. It would be a single use playground for the rockhuggers and the east coast tourist.

You aught to get down on you knees and thank the man for what he has done for all Utahans rather than using a half truth misrepresentation of his way of supporting sportmen's concerns for a dwindling deer herd.

You got 24 hours to fix this. That is not a threat, it is a promise. We've had just about enough of the nonsense that's going on here.

DC
 
+100 longshooter338 needs to get a sniff.

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


Screw SFW and their BS worthless projects and once in a life time 100% success shoots! This state deserves better!!!
 
By the way Tony, you are right: "He has more intelligence as a non hunter than most people have as a hunter".

I will NOT argue that with you.

By golly we found another subject that we both agree on, that's two, want to try for three?

DC
 
LUMPY.. Not educated enough to comment on this exact incident but let me remind you who started the "nonsense". Who took 13,000 permits from Utah's buck deer hunters with out one shred of evidence of biological gain to our herds. Do ya really think yesterday was the end??? Do ya really think the 70% of Utah's buck hunters that despise what you did are going to remain apathetic forever???

You got it done and even though I couldn't disagree more I applaud you in getting it done. Now I am not talking about going on a public forum and allegedly slandering anyone but you are smart enough to know that plenty will change over the next 12 months. Hell you undid a good plan with a lot of effort on your part. I'm here to tell you that I intend to work harder than you did.

LUMPY the nonsense has just begun. 30% for and 70% opposed is not a Democracy. It's a sham. Either we will be successful or we wont, but it wont be from lack of effort. Like you said, this is a promise







*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
WW - I respectfully ask you this question. How long were we going to allow that "good plan" to go before we made the decision that it either worked or didn't work? I realize that the "good plan" was only 2 years old, however, we are in need of some immediate help. I honestly don't think we can wait around any longer. If it was such a good plan it should have been implemented a long time ago. We have been dickin around for so many years now, a "good plan" isn't enough. You may very well be right about it being a "good plan", but it needed a jump start that nobody was willing to give it. I don't have to tell you that we are losing deer by the day. But like you and I talked about at the WB meeting, if the DWR does not get a more accurate deer count, a "good plan" is as good as no plan. I'm a bowhunter too, I didn't like the fact that they voted the way they did on the statewide archery deal. I think it's a mistake. However, even if they would have went with option 1, I would be on here today stating the same things. We need better control over our deer herds and to get that, the biggest predator of them all needs a little control. A gentlemen stood up the other day and was upset about hunters being controlled. I think his words were, "I'm sick and tired of all the focus being on hunters". I somewhat agree on that yet I understand that the hunter needs some control. We need to control the things we can because there are things we can't control that do enough damage. Do I think that option 2 was the only way to go? I think it was the right choice out of all of them but like you have said over and over again, none of them are really bioligically sound. I do believe however, with other issues addressed, that option 2 can and will prove to be a sound plan. Sorry so long winded.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-10 AT 00:33AM (MST)[p]Seriously to all Utah sportsman. I believe we need to set our differences aside for now pull together and light a fire under the DWR's ass's write hear and now and get the ball rolling for our deer herd's not put off until tomorrow what can be done today. We as utah sportsman also need to get the sportsman's voice and public input heard and taken more seriously throughout the WB members. This whole public process from our rac meeting's to the WB meeting's has turned into nothing but a huge circle jerk!!. I feel if they are going to implement this kind of change on our hunting heritage here in Utah then by gawd it's not going to be for nothing!!. The way I see it no excuse's if they can't do it wright and get there job done with great result's they are no different then anyone else it should be out with the old and in with the new no excuse. I believe we as sportsman should act as the watch dog's. Call em out on any and all BS from the word get go. We all need to watch listen and pay very close attention to every little aspect of detail they plan to implement option 2 into affect with throughout the next year. We also need to make dam sure that everyone can benefit form this action and not just a small few who will rep the reward's of benefit from it.
SERIOUSLY UTAH IF THERE WAS EVER A TIME THE TIME IS NOW!!!!
 
I think the fire is lit Sidehill. We just need to keep putting wood on it and not let it die down. Lots of issues to deal with in the upcoming year that will affect every person with a license. There will be good and bad things on both sides of the argument but we DO need to come together and make sure that our deer resource is around forever!


It's always an adventure!!!
 
+1 Bull! I am glad to see some guys starting to focus on what needs to happen down the road!

There are not enough deer in Utah...FOR REAL.
 
Jim hey it was cool to finally shake your hand.

Brother we both know that what passed had nothing to do with
biology and what is best for the herds.

It was a pure Quality / Trophy hunter motion that was accepted, with the sole purpose of growing more bucks and ending statewide archery.

The "good" plan was put together by a broad group that had "social" support from the public. This wasn't put together by a
group from Beaver that says we need to "shut the hunt down" or
armchair biologists from Monroe that determine their herd counts on what they "see between Levan and Salina" on a given day.

Biologically nothing has changed. Management will not change,
Units will still be counted every three years and modeled off of harvest data. The only thing going to 29 units did was to move hunters around and end hunting for 13,000 hunters per year.

The Don Peay's, Del Brady's, Keele Jonhson's Tom Hatch's
Jake ( PRE-RECORDED ) Albrect's and Deloss Christensen can tell you it was about deer. It was about them and who was on their mountain. Bair called a spade a spade at the meeting when he said it was a North vs South Civil War. Deloss can tell you different
and that what he had passed was backed by biology. Jim this is simply not the case. This plan will grow more bucks and limit the amount of hunters per unit, nothing more.

Biology is out the window. That being said the bill of goods
that Don and Deloss sold you is still not cool with three out of four hunters.





2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
WW, the plan that you speak of was never used. The Wildlife Board dropped the ball. There was a good plan, but the WB didn't want to use this good plan because they had different ideas. Their Ideas was passed on December 02.

Has anyone even read the plan that WW is talking about. It addresses the issues to help struggling deer in each part of the state. It will help the deer better than option 2, but we didn't even bother looking and following the plan with exactness.
 
ELITE like I said there is a LOOOOONNNNGGG time before this plan
goes in to effect. I've got a few ideas to work with.








2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
Jim

Please stop preaching that the unit by unit is what was best for the deer herd. ALL it addressed was the buck herd.

You are smarter than you are appearing with the comment "it was for the deer herd". JIM it was not. It was for more bucks, bigger bucks and less opportunity to hunt. Nothing more and Nothing less.

Now lets do something for the deer herd, but remember we have 13,000 less people to help us.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
UTAH HAS TOO MANY LAND CARP!
 
Jim there was no difference in our general deer herds and our general spike elk hunts both were managed for opportunity not quality.

The difference now is SFW has just stuck the camels head in the tent and it is pushing its big fat azz all the way in. Sure on the outside 29 units doesn't sound to bad to me but I see who it came from. I know where they want it to go. DK pea has said he wants to see bookcliff quality state wide! FACT!!!

Jim do you know how many deer tags are on the bookcliffs? This is not a joke and Im not making fun of you! Just asking a question. No do the figures on the rest of the state and see how many tags are going to have to be cut so we have bookcliff quality state wide.

Now re do your math and see how long its going to take to draw a tag all for a 18-22 inch 4 point.


the point is it wasn't worth it imho. If you want to kill a big buck in this state wait your turn and be happy you could still hunt. There was always a chance to see a good buck if you did work for it.

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


Screw SFW and their BS worthless projects and once in a life time 100% success shoots! This state deserves better!!!
 
If you want Book Cliffs quality of bucks across the state you can only have 40,000 hunters statewide. That model has been done and you can get it for yourself if you don't believe me.

So if that is where we are going we are gonna kick out another 40,000 hunters

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
UTAH HAS TOO MANY LAND CARP!
 
Here is how I see this. The only reason I like the smaller units is because I see the need for pressure dispursement. We've all hunted areas that you just know are being over hunted. How do you fix that problem on one of the 5 general units without cutting tags? IMO you divide the state into smaller units. Why do you have to cut tags? If you want the same opportunity keep the same number of hunters. Just disperse them into different units. The real problem I think people have with this is that they may not be able to hunt "their spot" every year. They may have to go out to the Basin area or up to Cache Valley. I'm an opportunity guy and I'm willing to work together to get things accomplished. I do realize that some of my ideas need to be sacrificed for the better of the herds. I just wonder how many others feel the same need for sacrifice. I will give you this, the biologists I have talked to in both Utah, Wyoming, Colorado and Kansas are split right down the middle with this whole "29 Unit" thing. Some say it will work others say it doesn't.

WW - I am a bowhunter at heart so I will stand in your corner to fight for statewide archery. But please believe me when I say, I don't care about buck to doe ratios. I really care about the entire package and deer as a whole. I'm not a biologist and there are things I don't understand however, even Anis was wishy washy at that WB meeting. Can I honestly say that he didn't have outside influence? No. But I would hope that he has enough confidence in his education to do the right thing. He said himself that Option #2 would be the more biolobically easier to manage option out of the 3.

Tony - I appreciate that you throw my name and "smart" out in the same sentence. That doesn't happen very often even though you are leaning more to the other side.:D I can appreciate all sides and oppinions and I am not so egotistcal that I can't see both sides and the benefit from working together. I've been accused of jumping on the bandwagon because I'm an outfitter/guide and I am selfish for that reason. I will put something to rest right here and now. After a lot of thought and personal, internal struggles, We have made the decision to retire from the outfitting business and put that part of our lives aside. One of the main reasons for this is because of this whole mule deer issue. Now those that know me personally know what kind of a tough decision this has been for me. There is nothing that I would rather hunt than big screaming bull elk. However, the deer in our state are a dieing breed. Traditions have been forgotten and disabled. I would love nothing better than to have a 4 day weekend established again for the deer hunt opener. If we start now, maybe my grandkids can experience what I had as a kid.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I have no alterior motives. I don't have conservation organizations calling me, emailing me or wanting me to sit down with them and chat. I really am just an "Average Joe" that loves hunting for what it should be. So now you guys have the whole scoop. So lets knock this ##### off and get something done for our mule deer herds!!!!!

It's always an adventure!!!
 
Jim,

That was a very authentic post and regardless of philosophical differences, I believe you to be someone that should be looked up to by many and are a good example of a decent human being.
 
Jim, please don't take anything I saw as questioning your integrity. I truly believe that you are one of the few in this debate that is truly in it for our herds. Weather our philosophies match or not its my opinion that you have been stand up throughout, where I feel some have not.










2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
Deloss, I dont give a damn what he said following his i hate deer and elk comment and the only reason he has been fighting that fight is because if we go, then so do any grazing rights associated with that property. And just for the record im no longer associated with sfw in any way shape of form !!!!! So dont give me none of your 24 hour bull shart, delosse christensen !!!! your entitled to your opinion and im entitled mine .
 
ww - I don't take things personally when it comes to oppinions. In fact I respect differences in oppinions unless there's a personal attack attached, but I know what you look like now my friend.:D


It's always an adventure!!!
 
longshooter
I believe you don't give a damn what he said because you don't give damn about the deer as much as you care about getting your way, regardless of what happens to the deer herd. If I'm wrong you would have told everyone what he said after he said I hate your damn deer.

That he said was: I hate your damn deer. I hate your damn about elk more but I'm telling you sportsmen, you are out of deer! And what you have left are down in my field because there's some many predators above the place that the deer have no where else to go.

Now, why did he say that? He said it because the DWR had just spent the last three long hours trying to convince everyone in that room that we have the same number of deer as we had in the 1990s. Del was telling the DWR and the rest of us in the room what "we are out of deer" figuratively speaking. Secondly he was making the point that he thought the predators need to be reduced to help his livestock and our deer.

And for that you want his resignation.

If Del had voted against unit management I believe your attitude toward him would be exactly the opposite. It seem clear to me your burnt over his vote far more than your concerned about his colorful way of disagreeing with what the Division was trying to convince us.

I believe you were willing to discredit him because of his vote not because how he said we were out of deer. But, of course that's not what you wanted MM readers to know.

I'll go a head then and send Del your accusations and he'll do what ever he'd like to do with it. My guess he's been abused by better than any of us but then we'll allow him to decide.

DC

Oh and just for your records, I've got nothing, whatever to do with the SFW other than a membership that I get from attending their dinners, the same as I get when I donate my pittance by attending the dinners held for Ducks, Turkeys, SCI, MDF, RMEF, and the NRA. Most of the time guys that run the SFW walk past me without so much as a grunt. So if your pissed at SFW it's because they didn't give you your way either, seems you must have been alright with them up until they did something you didn't want. If this cost the SFW a membership I'm sorry for them. I guess I could be pissed at MDF, they supported a different option than what I wanted. But I won't because I know they help mule deer. But I was pretty sure we'd come down differently on that decision too.
 
So Tony, I have one question. I believe this state rep lives in Mapleton correct? How many conversations did you personally have with him before he made this statement? Okay two questions.
 
Elite - think about what you said above; "WW, the plan that you speak of was never used." I'm not saying that the "good plan" wasn't the right thing. However, I truly believe what you said was is true. That plan wasn't used. All the hard work of several people including MDF went to waste. That plan was put in place in 2008. So whay wasn't it used? I don't know about you, but if there is plan put into place at my work, it's expected to be implemented and worked on immediately. Here we are in 2010 and you tell me that it wasn't ever used. So, if the current proposal that wasn't used for 2 years obviously isn't working (because we arent' using it), just how long do you propose we stick with a plan that we are not using? 5 years? 10 years? Anis said it may take as long as 10 years. I don't know about you, but I remember hunting deer 10 years ago. It was better than it is now. Who's to say that it won't be better on the old plan in 10 years. But I'm not willing to bet a mule deer herd on it and the future of mule deer hunting in Utah just to sit around and see if the DWR uses the plan. Does that make sense. Hopefully it came across the way I wanted it to.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
I Have known him for years as he coached my sons baseball team. So I know him well. We have even golfed together.

As far as this subject goes I talked to him before the rac process and told him what was coming up and that I have scheduled a forum I would like him to attend.

I also invited Rep. MIke Noel from Kanab to the forum but he could not make it.

Rep. Gibson agreed because he wanted to meet the players who were invested in the plan, the process and the options.

Thats when I gave him the forum info. He came by himself and sat in the audience while SFW, MDF and the DWR made their presentations and answered questions from the public.

He then came up front and addressed the panel and the listening audience. Unlike Jake from the Wildlife board he did not have a pre-written statement. He had written some notes down while listening and then formed his opinion.

Is there anything else I can answer you about that?

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
One more note TWORAY whoever you are,

He said he received 7 other calls from people in his district about this topic, and I don't know who they were.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
Delosse, You seem to forget yourself sitting in the comfort of your den , I was at the meeting ,watched you get up all fat and sassy apposed to all of the options accept your proposal. I was and still am in favor of option #2 , So my attitude towards dell hasnt changed a man will tell you what he thinks and dell is a cattleman and i think he made it clear what and where his priorities were regardless of his vote . As for my beef with sfw i tried turning in a individual who had severely broke the law and lets just say some board members of sfw dixie conference called me and told me to back off and let it go , why imo, he buys banquet tags $$$$$$$$$
 

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