bluelk....buffalo ballets

stalker

Active Member
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Bluelk,
I have been reading your postings for awhile and "You are the Man" when it comes to the muzz. I would appriciate any info you could give on the following.
I have a T/C Renegade in .54cal. I am trying to work up a load for my 13yr old daughter for elk this year. I have never had any luck with patches. I can't get a heavy enough patch down the barrel. Anything light enough burns and or shreds. I have had very good luck with "Poly Patches" but these are also some what hard to load. I am thinking of trying the Ball-etts from Buffalo Bullets and also the Blackbelts. Do you have any experience with the Ball-etts? Any other lower weight projectiles you are aware of.
Thanks
Stalker
 
If you can cast your own or know someone who can cast them for you, you might want to try some of the 300 grain Lee REAL bullets. The mould is pretty inexpensive but works well.

The heavier ones shoot very accurately from my .54 Renegades (clover leafs at 50 yards) and I would suspect that the lighter 300's will also do well. Just don't have one of those moulds to try it with.

Tom Krupinski
Glendale, Arizona
 
stalker: What's the twist on that barrel? Also, are you prelubing the patches before using them?

The BlackBelt might be a good bullet to use, but before I recommend them I need to know the twist. Let me have that and then I can give you a recommendation, ok?

Also, what powder are you using and how large a load?
 
Bluelk,
I believe the twist is 1-48. I have never been able to get Maxi's or trophy hunters to shoot well. Yes I lube the patches. I have been shooting this off and on for 20 yrs so have tried many differant lubes including crisco right now I'm using "Bore Butter" pine scented of coarse. As for powders I have shot black ffg, fffg, and Pyrodex 70-120 grns. Patches stay together up to about 90 grns. Going to try the Cleer shot next time out. I don't need this to shoot tacks but would like to be able to achieve 6" at 100 yds. What is your thoughts on 90g (black ffg or clear shot) behind a 230g round ball for elk? Remember this is for a young hunter and shots will be under 100 yards.
Also I ran the cotton balls down the barrel and it appeared to be smooth. I lapped and lubed the barrel as your earlier post had said but have not done any shooting since.
Thanks
Stalker
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-02 AT 09:09AM (MST)[p]stalker: Kraig, you have a twist that lends itself to conicals more than roundball. The 1:48 twist was developed to be a "catch all" twist that in theory is supposed to handle both roundball and conicals, but I personally believe, from my experiences, that it lends itself more to conicals. Why don't we go in that direction right now, and see if we can get it to perform correctly so that you, and your daughter, have confidence in the weapon. If the procedure I'm going to recommend doesn't work we can always go back to the patched roundball, ok?

You have a lapped barrel that we will assume is free of burrs and chattermarks. Here is what I think you should do:
1. I would choose the BlackBelt hollow nose lead conical as a minimum for elk.
2. I am making the assumption that you have open iron or a peep sight.
3. More than likely through the years you have moved your front and rear sights. You can either leave them where they are or reset them to "zero-zero". I would leave them where they are if you are ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that the shooter of the rifle, or the bullet, is the problem and not the sights. If there is any doubt whatsoever that the sights might be wrong then I would reset them and start from scratch.
4. Pick a nice calm day and go to the range. Set your target at 25 yards.
5. Take some Goex Clear Shot 2f and 3f with you.
6. Fire a couple of rounds through the barrel to get it warmed up. You don't care where these hit the target. Run a spit patch down the barrel and then a dry patch.
7. Start your first string of 3 shots with 90 grains of 2f.
8. Do the absolute best you can possibly do to make these first 3 shots the best you have ever done. If you have the slightest thought that any of these shots could have been better then totally ignore them and start over.
9. Let's assume you held really good. You should have all 3 shots fairly close together at some place on the target.
10. Run a spit patch down the bore, and paste up the 3 shots.
11. Repeat Steps 7 and 8. Is your 3 shot string in relatively the same place on the target? If not, there is a problem with either the rifle, the sights, or the shooter. If they are in the same general area you can now start making adjustments.
12. Run a spit patch down the bore.
13. For your next 3 shot string increase the powder charge to 100 grains of 2f. Fire that string. Did the strike point move on the target? If everything is equal then it should have moved.
14. Run a spit patch down the bore.
15. If the strike point from that 3 shot string did not move, ignore it, paste up the holes and repeat Step 13.
16. If it moved then increase your powder load for the next 3 shot string to 110 grains. Fire that string. Did the strike point move on the target? If everything is equal it should have moved.
17. Run a spit patch down the bore.
18. If the strike point didn't move repeat Step 13.
19. One of the things that you should have been paying attention to through this whole exercise is if the shot groups were "tightening up" or spreading out. If they were staying about the same, or tightening up, then everythings cool.
20. Now begin the process of moving your sights so as to put your shot groups "dead on in the middle of the bullseye".
21. You can now move the target to the 50 yd line, or to the 100. It's up to you.
22. Fire a 3 shot group and see where the strike points are. Adjust your sights to move the strike of the bullet to "dead on in the middle of the bullseye".

Kraig, go through this procedure, and after you have completed it jump back on here and let me know what the results are. We are not finished with this process so it's important to let me know about your results. Now, let me say this without being offensive, ok? The whole key to this process is the shooter. If you have any physical issues such as eyesight, high pulse rate, heavy breathing, nervous condition, smoking, heavy coffee or soda drinking, bucking, flinching, pulling etc. your results could be skewed. Be honest with yourself and take these into account. A lot of times undesirable results are not caused by rifle, bullet, or powder; but my the person firing the weapon. What I am saying is make sure that the shooter is not the problem. We can solve the rifle, bullet, and powder problems: you are the only one who can solve any shooter problems.

For now, you should do the shooting. We will make some adjustments later on so that your daughter can handle the recoil, ok? Another factor to take into consideration is the physical size of your daughter. The "pull" of the Renegade might come into play if she is small. Is the rifle comfortable to you? Measure your arm length and your daughter's arm length. How much difference is there?
 
Bluelk,
Thanks for the directions. I am stopping tonight to purchase the powder. I will have to order the blackbelts. (Cabela's has them for I think it was $10.69 per 20.)You are correct, I am shooting open (iron) sights. No scopes allowed in Colorado. It will be a week or so before I can do the testing (if the weather warms up.) No offense taken about the jerk behind the trigger. Some times I do some times I don't. I will let you know what the out come is.
Thanks again.
Stalker
Kraig
 
Bluelk,
I had already ordered from Cabela's before I saw this. I ordered the 348g and after reading this post I see that they also make a 295g. Are they both the same length (bigger cavity in the 295g). Just curious if there is a tumbling possibility. Also I went to the www.CVA.com web page and they also claim to be the developer of these? Cabela's is cheaper than either of these by $4, but do not offer as many varieties as BigBore.
Have powder, waiting on lead and warm weather.
Stalker
 
stalker: The 348 grain BlackBelt/PowerBelt is just a larger bullet. The cavity size is the same. You will not have any problem with tumbling. I have shot these bullets for the past 9 or 10 years and consider them to be the best conical, and hunting bullet, on the market.

By the way: CVA now owns Big Bore Express.

Let me explain why I have recommended doing your sighting in process with hollow points. They are much cheaper than ballistics point bullets, and will strike in the same place on the target as the hollow points do. So do your sighting in with the hollow points, and hunt with the ballistics points.
 
Bluelk,
Ok I have some results. I am using Goex FF Clear Shot 348g lead Powerbelts and Remington #11 caps. I started with 90g and stopped at 120g. 3 shot groups, spit patch,dry patch, snap a cap to remove moisture, and repeat for the next sequence. 110g & 120g shoot almost identical and were the best groups. The plastic base of the bullet was starting to melt and deform a little with the 120g loads so I went back to 110g. I adjusted my sights and shot a couple more groups. I had my daughter shoot one and she had no problems with the recoil. I was very impressed with the Powerbelts. I'm not sure about the powder. I had 4 misfires and the rest of the shots seem to be a little slow. Almost like hang fires. I didn't have any black powder with me or I would have tried some to verify. Was this my imagination or have you had similar results? Would the FFFg be better? When I load I remove the old cap and leave the hammer cocked. I dump the charge down the barrel and tap the gun butt a couple of times to settle the powder. Then push the bullet down, cap and fire.
Also my caps are several years old which could be the cause of the misfires, although they all went off. I will of coarse get new caps for hunting season but I have about 300 old ones to use up. I replaced the original nipple with a hot shot several years ago. I have read on another of your posts about the RWS caps and will try them next time out. Let me know whats next.

Thanks for all the help you have given me and also for all the great info in your chapters. If you ever want to hunt small elk in Colorado during archery or Muzzle loader you are welcome in my camp.
Stalker
 
Stalker:
Dump the Remington caps. I had a lot of hang fire and misfires out of 3 different boxes of Remington caps. Switched to CCI and the problem disappeared. Switched last year to a 209 conversion, and not one misfire out of 300+ rounds to date.
 
stalker: Your caps were the problem, I would bet. Thanks for the invite. I will take you up on it real soon. Not this year, but next, ok. Doing a lot of white tail hunting back East this year, and taking some NY firefighters out here in AZ this year.
 

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