3 lions per unit

fishon

Very Active Member
Messages
1,052
Think of it this way.

If the DWR simply killed on average 3 more lions per deer unit we would save more deer than cutting 13,000 hunters and we would not lose revenue.

And I am not just talking bucks. We would save Bucks and doe's by killing 100 more lions state wide and those doe's would have fawns for years and years and those bucks could grow up to the trophy breeding bucks you all want. So the trickle down effect would be huge.

Then we could take the revenue that was not lost by cutting tags ($500,000) and put it into Coyote killing in the spring and save that many more fawns that will turn into bucks and breeding doe's.

This is how simple things could be and much more effective and popular than cutting the hunters and the opportunity.

100 lions killed would not be missed like 13,000 hunters will be.
100 lions killed would actually increase revenue for the dwr and opportunity for hunters unlike cutting 13,000 hunters which would reduce opportunity and revenue.
100 lions will come back 100 times easier than our deer herds.

This is just one simple way to look at other options to have no loss of hunters or revenue but still accomplish what EVERYONE wants which is more deer.

You would think that with all the people out there that are a lot smarter than me that they could see the logic in other options.

There is still time to correct the mistake. Lets all get behind this one and WE ALL WIN instead of we all lose.



Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
We got lots of Fresh Snow!

Get your Gear!

I want you to show me a 100 lion tracks in the region I live in!

When you see the light You'll realize Coyotes are a way bigger Problem!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
Hey Bop

I addressed both lions and coyotes. And it won't be 100 in your region it will only be approx, 20.

I know even your old broke down butt can find 20 :)

Happy New Year

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
Here's another deal fishon!

The Lions have been hunted hard in the Book Cliffs!

It's been pounded Tony!

A Trophy Tom in the Books is as rare as a 40" Buck in the Books!

The Deer Herd ain't doing all that well out there Tony,WTF?

SFW thought if they eliminated the Lions in the Book Cliffs the Deer herd would come back like the 50's & 60's,WTF Tony?

Would it be fair to say there are too f'n many tags issued in the Book Cliffs?

Would it be fair to say there are too many Coyotes in the Book Cliffs?

Ya,I know,the Lions & Bears are killing all the Deer off in the Book Cliffs,GEEZUS!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
To me it's several things

1) Too many Utah hunters.

2) Winter Range is being eaten up by developers.

3) Elk

4) Roadkills
 
RE: To me it's several things

OK fishon!

I'm willing to place a bet with You!

I'm talking a money bet fishon!

I'm talking Real Gambling in TardVille!

You in?

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
What?

The book cliffs was shut down for years.
The book cliffs cut tags drastically when they re-opened it.
They have killed countless lions in the book cliffs.
They have killed countless coyotes in the right time of year on the book cliffs.
They have killed bears in the book cliffs.
They have done habitat work in the book cliffs.
They took lots and lots of cows and sheep off the book cliffs.
They have 25 bucks per 100 doe's in the book cliffs.
Lots of the book cliffs are road less with NO ATV'S


They are managing the book cliffs just like you want to manage the rest of the state, (option 2)

It should be the best deer herd in the state according to option 2 supporters. Why is it not Bop?

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
RE: To me it's several things

C'mon bop, you know gambling is illegal in Utah unless it is for a 501 c-3 non profit wildlife organization.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
Pay Attention!

I never said Option # 2 was the Answer!

I said it was like voting for the President of the United States the last few times!

You'd best read my Option # 5 Tony!

Or have you forgot about it already?

Don't know how much you know about the Book Cliffs but there is alot of Roaded area that is beat to Death with ATV's!

There's 12-15 reasons 'WHY' Tony,until you realize this you're PISSIN in the f'n wind!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
RE: To me it's several things

Let's Place bets for real fishon!

I need money for Fall so I can screw off with a few of my friends!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
So Bop, is that the case with the rest of the the state as well?

IF so then we should probably get rid of the option 2 vote and look to address the real issues. Those being the 12-15 reasons you are hinting at.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
RE: To me it's several things

Tony
I'd like to know how long you think you'd have to look before you found 20 different lion tracks in the N/E region?
I'm willing to bet you will give up before you spend that much money on fuel looking????
Catman
"have hounds will travel"
 
If you'd pay attention!

Which you don't/won't!

You'd already know what I've said!

I'll say it again since you ain't listening!

We need change!!!

It's past due!

A steady,slow,down hill trend with Our Deer herd for 38 years now!

Let's turn it around before it's too late!

I truthfully believe there will never be enough good change ever put in place to turn it around,I hope I'm wrong!

You keep wanting to blame one thing Tony!

There is a combination of 12-15 reasons why the Utah Deer Herd is suffering!

Wake the HELL up & see the Light!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
RE: To me it's several things

I'll bet you 10,000.00 you can't find 30 different Lion Tracks in the NE Region in a week by yourself!

Now Cowboy-UP Cupcake & place the Bet!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
RE: To me it's several things

Fishon: It not about revenue. You know how much money is lost by keeping the PREDATORS on a draw, instead of a quota while taking the same amount of PREDATORS off a unit.

There are so many examples of Proposal 2 across the state. None of them are increasing the deer numbers substantially. A prime example is the ELK RIDGE DEER unit where the deer herd is at 37% of the division objective. In that unit, there is very little to not any road kill. There are only a total of 50 deer hunters a year and very little, if any, winter kill. But lots of PREDATORS! So let's keep catering to a few houndsmen at the expense of several thousand deer hunters, and millions of dollars of state revenue lost.

-Lloyd Nielson
 
RE: To me it's several things

Very Few Road kills in that area?

You're SHITTIN me right?

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
RE: To me it's several things

May I ask where you live Lloyd?

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
RE: To me it's several things

Hey Bop.

I am not familiar with all of your precious Northeast but I would imaging in a weeks time I by myself could turn up 5 or 6 lion tracks.

But that is not the issue, All of you tremendous lion hunters spread out in the Northeast region would have NO PROBLEM killing 20 additional lions because that is what you guy are good at and you know where they are and how to find them.

Now if you want to come to the Central I can show you 3 lion tracks from this morning within 5 miles of my house ( 1 a good Tom) because this is where I live and I know where the deer are which makes it pretty simple to find the lions.

But the whole point to this post is there are many ways to save your precious 3,000 bucks a year without killing our future generations or sportsmen.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
RE: To me it's several things

I went from Nephi to Richfield to Panguitch and back to Nephi and no road kill and only seen 3 doe,s ( Sorry over hunded ).
 
RE: To me it's several things

That ain't fixin the Herd though Tony!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
RE: To me it's several things

In time the DWR will have the Lions and coyte starve to death their won't be any deer left, the way they manage them ( to many tags ) KEEP KILLING THE DOE'S
 
RE: To me it's several things

Bop

It is fixing the deer herd more than cutting hunters. By killing lions we will actually add doe's to the population for those bucks we just added to the population to breed.

So we will be increasing not only the bucks that you want to see but MORE IMPORTANT we will be increasing the doe's that will give birth for the next 1-8 years to lots of baby bucks and doe's. And then those buck's and doe's can have more fawns. Novel idea huh?

That addresses things much more than cutting buck tags.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
RE: To me it's several things

Hey Perk

How many doe's are killed by hunters every year in Utah?

And yes I agree that killing 1 is too many but this is a serious question.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
RE: To me it's several things

Let me SPLAIN it to you Tony!

We have places that the Lions have already been all but decimated!

The Deer numbers haven't raised/improved,WTF?

You should already know this Tony!

Don't tell me some of these Quota areas don't get hunted!

Funny part is,Quotas haven't been filled in certain Units,WTF Tony?

Lions are thin but Deer numbers continue to fall fishon,WTF?



God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
RE: To me it's several things

Good GAWD wimpy!

You live in Blanding & never see RoadKills?

You ever venture clear up to Monticello?

Almost dangerous to drive stretch & you claim almost no roadkills?

I'm calling BULLSSHIT on that one!

And I don't even live there!



God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
RE: To me it's several things

You've said Blanding twice now!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-10 AT 09:03PM (MST)[p]Tony, while I support you in a lot of areas and respect your opinions, you're F'up with this one.

Here's where your hypothesis breaks down: you are assuming that every deer not killed by a lion DOESN'T DIE OF ANY OTHER CAUSES. That is the only way your numbers can add up. No highway deaths, no coyote predation, no winterkill, no diseases, you name it. Nope, every deer saved from cougar predation lives and prospers. Seriously Tony, how realistic is that??

This is why every effort to restore deer populations by killing lions has under achieved in the past and will yield the same disappointing results to all the math whizzes this time around as well. The world is a dangerous place for deer and you can't ignore the other hazards around them. So c'mon Tony, enough of the "fuzzy math," you're credibility is at stake.
 
RE: To me it's several things

They are killing them on the extended hunts and they are killing them in Bountiful and the people in southern Utah stop the DWR from killing them ( doe's )in Panguitch---They called that hunt off --- why because of no deer and the people are mad, in Panguitch ---- because of the DWR over hunting.
 
Right on KevinD!

Tony is always quick to Blame one f'n problem when in reality it is a combination of many problems!





God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
RE: To me it's several things

Tony add taking 300 coyotes a year out of each unit, then you might be on to something
 
RE: To me it's several things

Hey MEEW!

That'll be his next thread!

He Blames the PISS POOR DEER Herd on a New Thought every other day!

Just admit it Tony!

There's 12-15 reasons,post em all up on one Thread & get it over with!



God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
How about we kill 10 more lions per unit and 3 more bears, raise bobcat limit to 6 per year. Cut the tags by 15,000. Charge a $20 per hunt application fee for coyote control and kill a bunch of dogs. Raise ALL permit fees by 30 dollars and auction off some stinking Goat, moose, bison, antelope permits and use the money to build some deer fence and deer over/under passes. Stop the antlerless deer hunts. Use money from permit hike to transplant problem deer instead of taking the easy way out, killing them. Improve habitat. Make 35 units instead of 29, and actually manage the units. Slowly raise tag numbers as buck to doe ratios increase. Kill big bucks forever more.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-10 AT 10:17PM (MST)[p]Kevin

You are making the point I have been trying to get through B Bops and everyone else's melon.

It is not 1 problem. It is s culmination of several problems. That is what I have always preached and that is what I want addressed. I have posted it for months now. It is elk, it is coyotes, it is highways it is winter it is poaching, Yet we are addressing the least effective method of doing what we all want done. And it comes at the BIGGEST expense.

We are taking out the guy who pays the bills and who votes and who with education can manage themselves. We are saying "go away hunter lets put the blame on you" when we should be saying "get involved hunter and lets fight together on this".

Kevin I know more than anybody that killing the lions is not the answer, I saw it on Timp and Provo peak when they exterminated the lions in the name of sheep and there are still very few deer. I have hunted those mountains EVERY YEAR for almost 20 years.

Cutting hunters will have even less of an impact. That is my point. I know every deer not killed by a lion might get killed by a road or winter or a number of things. I AGREE with you. Just like all those 3,000 bucks you are gonna save initially by cutting hunters might get killed by lions and coyotes and roads and winter and everything else. So we won't be adding 3,000 bucks to the pool either.

The post is to show how ridiculous the notion of kicking out hunters is. 13,000 hunters gone and 100 lions gone will have the same effect on the deer herd other than the hunters don't kill the doe's.

This is why I am screaming because what we are doing will make no difference in the big picture just like killing 100 lions will not.

I addressed coyotes but killing coyotes alone won't do it either.

To fix a deer herd correctly you need to look long and hard to find the answer. No state can claim they fixed their deer herd. All they can claim is the grew more bucks or bigger bucks or shortened dates or restricted hunters or closed units.

None of that has fixed a single thing. So while we all sit on here and complain about what effect cutting hunters will have we already no what it will do.

IT WILL GROW MORE BUCKS AND BIGGER BUCKS SO LESS HUNTERS CAN HUNT THEM. IT will move our deer hunts in the direction of our elk hunts which is a travesty and lost opportunity every single year.

That is what it will do. So it is a scam that the WB and everyone else is putting on to think cutting the hunters will fix it. Because it won't do anymore than killing 100 lions spread out over 29 units.

Kevin the problem with our deer will get worse if we eliminate the hunter and their dollars, unless of course you give more wealthy tags for a few to raise the money lost. Then the masses will say enough is enough and their will be a social civil war amongst hunters and we will all lose in that scenario.






Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.
 
Hey fishon if you could come out here to the NE part of the state and work your magic of turning up the 5 or 6 lion tracks you assume you could find. I'd chit myself,
5 different times now in a LE cougar unit with others out cutting by truck and snowmobiles and even a few of the other tag holders I Know only to of seen an old melted,crusted dinky track or I guess the correct term would be a "Piss cutter" track. This is a LE area... Not going to mention the previous harvest area that has been pounded to death. Yes there are a few that exist but I won't let any one pump me full of chit claiming that they are the problem.. People saying cougars are the main cause need a reality check..
 
You best get some dogs and do it yourself fishon, cuz the cats that are left up here aint worth killing, and wont be killed for the most part... all the time and money that goes into having hounds, only to wipe out the reason for having them in a few short years?? good luck with that.

You are a bit selfish, and wrong headed...IMO of course
 
RE:BBop

[font color="red" size="2" face="face"]"Good GAWD wimpy!
You live in Blanding & never see RoadKills?

You ever venture clear up to Monticello?

Almost dangerous to drive stretch & you claim almost no roadkills?

I'm calling BULLSSHIT on that one!

And I don't even live there!"[/font]

B Bop: Just for your information, in case you don't know, the Elk Ridge deer unit does not run between Blanding and Monticello.

Lloyd Nielson
 
Just for your information Lloyd!

You should know what goes on in that area better than me,You live there!

Don't tell me the Huntin pressure doesn't move Deer on to Private Ground,moving them across hi-ways at times!

Don't tell me 'no' Deer get run over on hi-way 95!

Don't tell me 'no' Deer off San Juan venture to Spring Creek,then get run over on the hi-way between Blanding & Monticello!

You know better than to Boast that kind of BS on here Lloyd!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
Hey fishon!

Read Post # 36!

Now you've riled the short Guy!

----------------------------------------------------------------

You've Boasted of many 'single'/'one item' battle plans Tony!

You've never combined them all in to one pile to accept the facts that We have many issues with the Utah Deer Herd!

Now you've went as low as to try & recover the 13,000 Fricken Tags that the DWR hasn't actually cut,they might,they might not!

I agree,it'll take a Hell of a lot more than cutting a few Tags,but will any 'SMART' changes take place?

I highly doubt it,I hope to Hell I'm wrong!

Did you ever look at my Option # 5 Tony?





God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
Tony, I am in total agreement with you that cutting 13,000 tags makes no sense on several different levels......that overall it does more harm than good. But your intial premise that we can kill 3 lions per unit and make up for the 13,000 tags that got eliminated is equally flawed.

I don't contest the assumption that 1 lion kills 50 deer per year, only that eliminating that one lion is going to translate into 50 more deer come hunting season.....which is what your numbers suggest. Like I mentioned, the only way that can happen is if there is no other sources of mortality. I know you're smart enough to see this, so why propagate the myth??
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-10 AT 07:56AM (MST)[p][font color="red"]RE: BBop

Just for your information Lloyd!

You should know what goes on in that area better than me,You live there! [/font]

Apparently I do. It seems you don't know anything about it.

[font color="red"]Don't tell me the Huntin pressure doesn't move Deer on to Private Ground,moving them across hi-ways at times! [/font]

First off, the Elk Ridge unit does not have any hunting pressure. 50 tags scattered over archery, muzzle loader and rifle doesn't push the deer around.

[font color="red"]Don't tell me 'no' Deer get run over on hi-way 95! [/font]

Yes, 1 or 2 get hit every year on 95, but that is way, way less than 1%. During the winter, there is almost no traffic on that highway.

[font color="red"]Don't tell me 'no' Deer off San Juan venture to Spring Creek,then get run over on the hi-way between Blanding & Monticello! [/font]

I didn't even mention the San Juan unit. You brang up the general San Juan unit. Highway 191 does not cross the Elk Ridge unit.

[font color="red"]You know better than to Boast that kind of BS on here Lloyd! [/font]

It's not BS. The only factor that the DWR can control on the Elk Ridge unit, that will make any difference at this point, is the predators. And, for you information, I know predators.
 
And no more hunting after Oct 31st!! Nov-Dec hunting is just too easy and puts stress on the animals!!
 
I agree!

But utehunter wouldn't!:D

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
I think fishon has taken the place of prooutdoors on B BOP's
$#!t list, curious to see how much stamina fishon has or if his line will break quickly ;-)
Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
My son-in-law showed me a picture of three cats which were just shot in one day on the Fishlake unit. They were all toms and the hounders tree'd two other female and of course they were released. I SAID ONE DAY!!! No wonder we don't have any deer. Utah should require so many females killed before the Mountain Lion season ends for that mountain.
 
Cannonball: Yes we need to manage all the predators and quit catering to a few squeaky wheels. This would benefit the whole state of Utah.

Lloyd Nielson
 
Just who are the squeaky wheels? Friends of the animals, PETA, DWR biologists, or hounders (on one hand we need them because without dogs, mountain lions would be completely out of control, on the other hand they [Hounders] don't seem to understand when the deer and elk are gone so are the lions gone). It is certainly out of whack now, at least for deer.

I am not forgeting the coyotes. We need laws which allow spotlighting without such a hassle. A lot of young people would love to be able to go spotlighting the way some of us old timers did. It was a way of life for us - a predator call, a spotlight, a gun, and someone to say lets go - no planning at all and we're off.
 
First off, never take a houndsmen serious when he says there is no cats because he is totally lying to you. He lies because he wants to keep the tags numbers down so he has more lions to chase. When is the last time houndsmen begged the DWR to increase the lion tags?

Even in the 90's then lionhunters were saying the lion population was low when in reality it was out of control.
 
Killing Coyotes will do more then killing 3 more lions per unit. Coyotes litters are a whole bigger then a cats litter, I would rather have one or two kittens than 5-6 pups per litter.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
+1 cannonball
females almost always get released. I think we need mandatory female quotas filled before any toms can be harvested.
 
If you want that , then you will have to get the DWR to change their management plan and then they will have to have it approved etc. etc. The management plan requires that only a certain percentage of cougars harvested can be females, if the 3 year average is above a certain percentage then they would be required to decrease cougar tags and possibly season length.
Believe me, I am for anything that will reduce the number of predators to help allow for increase survival rates and recruitment of yearling deer into the population so that the herds can begin to grow again.
 
Yeah I agree with what was said above--most lion hunters tell you there are no lions because they want more to chase. In the 50's and 60's (same time there were lots of deer) a houndsman might hunt for a full week to cut one track. And when he did, he got on that track until he caught it, old or new. They would walk it out till it freshened up a bit. Now days most houndsmen ride around in the truck all night and if there isnt a smoking hot track, they go home and #####.I know of 2 lions treed yesterday in a HARVEST OBJECTIVE UNIT IN THE NER. Yeah that unit is pounded!. Are they all big magnum toms, hell no. But I happen to know an old kid or two that has been running a lion EVERY day they go in this unit. Do I want to see all the lions gone? No!. I think its awesome to have a few around. But when people claim there arent any lions I have to call BS.
 
Gee, what's the problem. There are not too many predators in Utah and there is no reason to let snare's go unchecked for more than two days. The deer herds are in good shape. Don't you watch TV and what DWR told the BGB and News media. After a statement like that I don't think they get south of the Payson/Dixon line. What a bunch of out of touch looney toones.
 
> How about we kill 10
>more lions per unit and
>3 more bears, raise bobcat
>limit to 6 per year.
>Cut the tags by 15,000.
>Charge a $20 per hunt
>application fee for coyote control
>and kill a bunch of
>dogs. Raise ALL permit fees
>by 30 dollars and auction
>off some stinking Goat, moose,
>bison, antelope permits and use
>the money to build some
>deer fence and deer over/under
>passes. Stop the antlerless deer
>hunts. Use money from permit
>hike to transplant problem deer
>instead of taking the easy
>way out, killing them. Improve
>habitat. Make 35 units instead
>of 29, and actually manage
>the units. Slowly raise tag
>numbers as buck to doe
>ratios increase. Kill big bucks
>forever more.


best plan i've seen so far!
 
RE: To me it's several things

>I'll bet you 10,000.00 you can't
>find 30 different Lion Tracks
>in the NE Region in
>a week by yourself!
>
>Now Cowboy-UP Cupcake & place the
>Bet!
>
>God is Great!
>Life is Good!
>And People are Crazy!
>
>I love not acting my age,
>
>Damn I love my NASCAR race,
>
>And Hell yes I love my
>Truck!
>And a good BBQ!
>I am Medicine And I am
>Poison!


i'd like to make a bet myself as a retired houndsman

how many lions would get killed if money wasn't involved?

you can't blame tony or any one else for the lack of tracks!!

houndsman are their own worst enemy .
 

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