ONCE THE SMOKE CLEARS

W

wileywapati

Very Active Member
Messages
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Since NEBO was kind enough to ask about what "my way" would be and what I'd want here goes.

First We'd get back to a minimum of 100,000 hunters.
This would be accomplished by increasing primitive weapon permits, and a sort of youth mentoring type permit system.

Second we would return to 15 - 100 objective on all G.S. units.

Third We'd address the chronically struggling units by A. making them L.E. B. Completely banning ALL MOTORIZED ACCESS. Walk or ride a horse C. Predators ( cats ) would go under a VERY LIBERAL HARVEST QUOTA TAG ALLOCATION ON THESE UNITS, Bounties would be paid / increased for coyotes.

Fourth Conservation Permits would be sold by The State. The extra 10% would go to making sure every unit is counted every year.

Fifth It would take nothing short of an act of GOD to be authorized to kill a doe mule deer on a chronically struggling unit. Mitigation / depredation permits would be as rare as a beer in BOP-A-CAT'S fridge.

Lastly total elk populations would be decreased to 50,000 mostly coming from units that are considered chronically struggling.










2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
ww!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

You been in to the NIP already I can tell!:D

You're not finished wiley!

What you gonna do about:

Roadkills?

Poachers?

Opportunists screaming to Kill more than is produced?

Just adding a few ww!

There's probably 12-15 that need to be addressed?

Winter of 2010-2011 ain't looking to well so far!

I was in the big city of Altamont at 10 AM and it was still -8 and yes We do have enough Snow!

I just set another Round Bale out for the locals,these are Deer I do not Hunt!





God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!
 
thats some scary stuff, lets see, wipe out the elk because the habitat suits them and they are thriving. Why don't we buy some of fishons deer growth fertilizer while were at it, its magic and will make all our dreams come true.
 
ww said:

1st I would increase the number of hunters. (just what everyone wants more competition)

2nd I would decrease the number of bucks from 18/100 to 15/100. Don't want too many bucks left over...they might get bigger.

3rd I would eliminate access for all handicapped, too old ,or too young. This is a real mans sport we don't need the weak here.

4th I would break the law and have the state sale conservation tags. Forget about the laws, this is hunting.

5th I would ignore state law again and tell land owners and farmers that it is okay if there kids starve when the deer eat there crops/lively hood cause' there aint no way we are killing those does eating there crops. We need to sacrifice people.

6th and finally I will eliminate the only successful wildlife program in this state in the hopes that the deer will return and thrive....even though we don't currently have the habitat to support them.

Sounds good to me.
 
A few questions....

1. Curious as to where the 100,000 permits comes from? If I recall you said buck hunters have little to no effect on deer pop.. Just wondering how you decided on that number?

2. Can restricting motorized travel really be done just for the hunts? I can't imagine the hoops you would have to jump through. Other people use the mountain too. Has this ever been done?

3. Again with the numbers. Where did the elk numbers come from? Do we really want to deplete a healthy elk herd because we have a hunch?

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just a few questions I have.
 
Good thing he isn't in charge of this sinking ship. The elk herd is about the only good thing we currently have as far as hunting goes in this state, if you can get a tag. Take that away and we would have crappy deer hunting to along with crappy elk hunting...
 
And the Henry Mountains are as good of a thing as we have going in the state "IF YOU CAN GET A TAG".

C'mon Elk Hunter. HOw good is something when very few even get to benefit form it?

Nice try though.
 
nice try fishon, but there were only 46 deer tags available for the Henrys in 2009, that included 10 management tags. There were 2,576 bull elk tags given out in 2009. You are clearly distorting facts, I would say a lot more people benefit from the good elk hunts available.
 
HOW many thousands of people applied for those 2576 elk tags? 40 k?
50 K?

I am not sure, but I know there were alot and there is a place to find that #.

How many thousands applied for those deer tags on the Henries?

3 k?
4 k?

HUGE DIFFERENCE!

Nice try PIPER!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-01-11 AT 12:03PM (MST)[p]I don't know what kind of point your trying to make Robiland? maybe a lot more people want to hunt bull elk, since residents can only apply for one or the other?
 
ELKAHOLIC, not blowing you off... Just need a day or two more on this.










2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
WW - I agree with most of what you stated but if you don't mind I copied your suggestions with my own little modifications. I don't think that we are too far apart with our thought process.


ww-First We'd get back to a
minimum of 100,000 hunters.
This would be accomplished by increasing
primitive weapon permits, and a
sort of youth mentoring type
permit system.

AWLB - I think 100,000 is a good goal to shoot for and I think that primitive weapons are the way to increase opportunity without decimating our herd populations. I also don't really see the need to cut tags initially. I have said all along that we just need to disperse the hunting pressure a little bit.

ww-Second we would return to 15
- 100 objective on all
G.S. units.

AWLB - I didn't agree with the whole 18/100 - 25/100. I highly doubt that we would ever see 25/100 in my lifetime unless we had a massive doe hunt to get to that number. It would be great to have that ratio if that meant we had 350,000-400,000 deer in the state. I think 15/100 is a great initial goal.

ww-Third We'd address the chronically struggling
units by A. making them
L.E. B. Completely banning ALL
MOTORIZED ACCESS. Walk or ride
a horse C. Predators (
cats ) would go under
a VERY LIBERAL HARVEST QUOTA
TAG ALLOCATION ON THESE UNITS,
Bounties would be paid
/ increased for coyotes.

AWLB - A- with the 29 units that's basically what you are doing. In reality, this is what we had when we went to a statewide draw for regions. It was just on a larger, harder to manage scale (JMO) B-I really think that we need to push the USFS and BLM to have seasonal road closures on ALL units, not just the ones that are struggling. We could start there but I don't think there is a unit in the state that couldn't stand a few of the side routes closed during the hunting season. And close them to ALL motorized vehicles. This includes dirt bikes!!!! C-100% agree with this one. The only thing I would add is increasing bear tags. We have a BIG population of bear in this state now. If you don't believe me just ask one of the government trappers the next time you see them and ask them what they spend the biggest amount of their time doing.

ww-1-Fourth Conservation Permits would be sold
by The State. The extra
10% would go to making
sure every unit is counted
every year.

AWLB - I would support this. The only problem I see is the process in which they would go about getting these tags auctioned. They would still have to pay someone to get all that taken care of. They have to pay an outside agency every year just to process your license fees. I don't want to see the wildlife banquets go away either. It's one of the only times my wife will let me sit there and bid an over under shotgun up to $300-$400 over the regular price and get away with it.


ww-Fifth It would take nothing short
of an act of GOD
to be authorized to kill
a doe mule deer on
a chronically struggling unit. Mitigation
/ depredation permits would be
as rare as a beer
in BOP-A-CAT'S fridge.

AWLOB - 1000% agree with this one except there are still a few farmers that support a pretty big number of muleys in their hay fields every winter. Somehow there needs to be a plan in place to move these deer to another place.

ww-Lastly total elk populations would be
decreased to 50,000 mostly coming
from units that are considered
chronically struggling.

AWLB - you ripped my heart out on this one ww! I really don't see the need to reduce the number of elk at this point. I have a good example. A CWMU that I hunt on in central Utah is pretty much a migratory hunt. There are some resident elk but not many. There are not very many deer on this place of 30,000 acres. I would guess somewhere around 200 at best. In this case the elk are not displacing deer. In the cases I have seen where the folage is good after controlled burns, both deer and elk are comingling. I have yet to see an elk run a deer off of feed. Of course this biology by Jim but it's a pretty objective observation.

I hope I didn't butcher your ideas too bad little buddy!:D





It's always an adventure!!!
 
maybe you guys should go to the Nevada forum and look at the happy young faces on the big buck contest photos, maybe you should see the smiles on the faces of young people when they go hunting for antelope in Wyoming. (a unit by unit controlled hunt) Do you really think having twice as many hunters as there is buck deer a good way to take care of a resource? I feel like this is a cruel joke, and its being played on the young people of Utah.
 
Piper maybe we should take thousands of pictures of the unlucky faces only to make it fair. Sure people are going to be happy if they get a chance to hunt, but the majority don't even get a tag in Nevada.
 
Kids between the ages of 12 and 17 can get a buck deer tag in Nevada every year if they wish, its a special youth deer tag.
 
no they aren't, they allow enough so that there are always enough , and they might not get their first choice area but they do get 5 choices.
 
I would be all over a designated youth program like that but you won't find that many adults in Utah that are willing to give up their hunting so that a youth can get their tag. There was a thread on here a couple of years ago about that very thing and I couldn't believe the selfish attitudes. I thought that obviously these guys didn't have kids but I was wrong on some of them. They did have kids that hunted. I would hardly compare us to Nevada though. Their resources are worse off than most western states.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
piper wrote:
"thats some scary stuff, lets see, wipe out the elk because the habitat suits them and they are thriving. Why don't we buy some of fishons deer growth fertilizer while were at it, its magic and will make all our dreams come true."

Sometimes things are not what they seem to be. If I'd known in the past about the habitat restoration in Utah I'd been banging my shoe on the desk at DWR or the Wildlife Board's desk. My meaning is this: All of those railed area were re-planted in mostly grasses. Especially the early re-plants. They were the cheapest to buy and that's what elk eat. It did not suit the deer's diet and it helped to increase the elk herd. Second is the fact that this also is helping cheat grass to expand. Lastly is what I have said before and I will say again, I believe that five or more deer = one elk. If you believe, as I, that the carrying capacity is just so many animals, there could be a lot more hunters in the field if we would reduce the elk herds. I would really like to see the Pauns rid of all elk. It may indicated if they are a factor, but I don't think the "POWERS" want to know if the elk are that much of a detrimental affect on the deer.
 
WW, and Awholelotta,

I like your ideas, and I like the way you are thinking.

How do we now band together, come up with ONE plan that we can ALL get behind, and then market and present it.

I think the time to strike is now. What we all need to do:

-Create a unified 29 unit proposal
-Get many many signatures on it
-Market it! Get it in the hands of our State Reps, The DWR, and some key Organizations.
-Dog it until it happens.

How do you guys think we should proceed?

Mike / Bowhunt.
 
My point in making this post was to show that even though we have 29 units the way we manage these units will be hard to impliment. What needs to be done to actually make a difference
will be like pulling teeth

Suprisingly only a couple people like CARBON want to just keep cutting hunters.... Because after all we don't want COMPETITION on our GENERAL SEASON HUNTS right??

Look at 15 - 100 bucks to does we can provide opportunity for
plenty of BUCK HUNTERS. We just need to drop our effeciency at killing deer. This isn't about bows vs rifle this is for every type of hunting..

Can you explain to me CARBON why it is necessary to have a road on EVERY RIDGE in most of the units in the state?? Escapement?? Safety?? Closing roads has nothing to do with comparing the size of body parts as CARBON concluded. Mix these roads on every ridge in with deer / elk habitat competition and
even though there is no data both Geist and Todd Black will tell you that deer will lose every time. Has nothing to do with
killing bucks... Has everything to do with providing QUALITY habitat and escapement corridors at the end of October when deer need it.

Co-op Creek Road is closed every summer while cows drop calves
the BLM and Forest Service work pretty well with the DWR and seasonal road closures would actually be pretty easy.

I pulled most of the numbers out of thin air... I have no idea how many elk is enough or too many when we are talking about habitat competition between deer / elk.. I do know that
elk are having an effect.

I will tell you that it is a damn shame that a youth can't draw, at a minimum, an archery tag every year. Why Not??

These were just a few things that will be controversial
but will make a difference.. Either we all get it and are willing to do what needs to be done, or we want to just make the decision that our own definition of what quality and competition between hunters is for our neighbors.








2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
Gordy, although I understand where you and Tony are coming from, I personally believe neither of you truly understand the dire straights of Utah?s mule deer herd..

I, as much as you or Tony would love to see every person who wants to hunt mule deer in Utah, be able to every year, be it 100,000 or 200.000 hunters, but with the multitude of problems and concerns facing mule deer, and with the lack of knowledge and understanding on how to truly fix the problem s. that is not the proper course of action to take at this time or in the near future.

I think, for way too many years, we have continued to decimate our deer herd from every direction. One of few ways we can save some deer is by hunting them less, and hunting them less with all this hi tech equipment.

I want to see more opportunity as much as you do, but not at the expense of today?s struggling deer herds. I truly believe, part of the problem we see in mule deer today, is partially caused,because we do not have enough mature bucks. We speak of buck to doe ratios but seldom do we hear about buck age ratios. I think that needs to be higher, not for the reason of trophy hunting, but rather for a far more important reason, and that being the overall health of the deer herd.

I don't see option 2 as the great fix, but rather as a great opportunity, for the state of Utah, to discover a lot of unanswered questions. But that won't happen, if they continue to manage the deer herd, in the future, like they did in the past.

It's a great opportunity to try a number of different management strategies. I think BOU and UBA should work closely to get a few areas disengaged as archery only areas. It wont? take many years to show the advantages of these strategies and permits cam be increased and opportunity and length of seasons can be expanded.

I say the same to the muzzleloaders too. Let's push for a few ML only areas and let the Dept see the advantages of those units. And let's have a few of the units where older type 30/30 and older open site rifles are all that are allowed.

Manage a few units just for rifle only, with no bowhunting or ML allowed.

In addition to this, don't open all the seasons at the same time. Stagger openings and differ the length of seasons in some units. Demand mandatory reporting and very soon we would begin to realize what strategies were working and which should be changed to those that are yielding good results.

I think if we as hunters demand this, from the Division, we would be amazed at the out come in 10 years, and I think at that point we can have it back to over 100,000 hunters per year.

Equally important as the management strategies is the need of overhaul and process in which the Raic?s and Wildlife Board are chosen.. We can not longer allow one or two men to hand choose a small group of puppets to hand stamp their personal agenda. If we could get this process overhauled then the RAC and Wildlife Boards could work in the best interest of Utah?s wildlife rather than that of a selected special interest group. If the people of Utah really understood the present day process, of picking those boards, they would certainly demand immediate change. It will be up to sportsman to see that's done.

So I see hope were many see gloom. I see a chance for a big change, for the good, if we seize this opportunity. But if we allow the Boards, to be hand picked, as in the past, the outcome will be what many of you fear. So I say Gordy and Tony get to work on the opportunity that is presented and quit crying over spilled milk! If you really want the opportnity, now it the time to get things changed so that can happen.

Yesterday is a cancelled check, tomorrow is a promissory note, only today is CASH!

Happy New Year. BB
 
So The RACs and WB are just puppets of the DWR ? Didn't you know that the DWR wanted the status quo for general season deer hunting. Do you dare name the ones who you think are pulling the strings behind the scenes?
 
Put it this way Nebo, in the past they have been in goose step. The new rac and board members just realized they needed to break stride or lose our deer herd. Changing direction on the wagon heading for the cliff is good for both the driver and the horses. Most of these members are not the same ones as yester year.
 
Bill I agree 100% with what you said... Again though we are back to the old car anology. When you blow the engine you don't fix the car by changing the tire. Cutting buck hunters is putting the spare tire on when you need a new cam.

Older bucks are ideal but for overall populations the theory hasn't proven effective on units like the Henry's or in other states like Nevada and Colorado. It's a panacea at best.

Like we both know you can have 15,000 units and if hunters
are not willing to do whats necessary we are back to square one





2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
"Like we both know you can have 15,000 units and if hunters
are not willing to do whats necessary we are back to square one"

Well said ww! We are all in this together and we need to be willing to sacrifice some of our personal desires for the improvement of hunting conditions in every area of the state. Although I am a huge supporter of the 29 unit plan, what you said above is true. Smaller units is NOT the answer to our problems. I believe it will help with individual management but hunters and the DWR have to be willing to attack all of our problems. What I have noticed while doing a little research on the whole issue it that we identify problems. The very problems we are talking about now have been talked about before. Then we attack a couple of those problems while the other issues get neglected and more damage is done. It's like plugging multiple holes in a dam. If you don't plug them all at once it is still going to drain all of your water out. If the DWR would have aggressively attacked the plan that the mule deer committee put forth we would not be here today. The more I look at the issue, the more I believe that this is about making the DWR do their jobs. Whether it be providing them with better tools, etc. They are the hinge in this whole thing. I also believe that it is up to us as sportsmen to force the issue and apply the necessary pressure to get things accomplished. I believe that it will require a large amount of time from individual sportsman on occasion to facilitate these changes and projects. My experience has been that there are a select few that are willing to give the time needed to get things done on a large scale. I hope this changes in the future. I will say this, I hope we all can come together very quickly and get things done for the mule deer in our state.

Jim
It's always an adventure!!!
 
Jim you get it!!! Even though we view it differently you have your head in this for the right reasons.

Some of you think I have a woody for elk and honestly I don't.
I have a woody for the way we currently manage them and was one of 3 votes in opposing the plan that was adopted.

Look when the plan was going through the "grow more elk phase" it was brought up that maybe the State should look at a way to provide incentive to livestock interests to get a few more grazers off the range. I didn't look at this concerning mule deer but one of the drawbacks to reducing grazers is increases in browse choking grass... We've got so much range, especially winter range in the state, so are we going to utilize that available space to grow grass for elk or brush for deer??

Bill you and I know that we can provide more opportunity with a bow. Dividing hunters even more, especially right now, is just what the "trophy, limited hunter, 100% success camp " is counting on.








2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
You bow hunters just kill me. Always trying for more, more, more and best, best, best. With the event of the Dedicated hunters, the percent of success does not hold water. I've been there, done that from the first year the dedicated program started. The mentality was to only shoot a very large deer on the bow hunt, and by the time the any weapon started the sights were lowered and a lot of buck were killed with a gun thus a higher percent killed a buck than usual.

Regardless of whether you think this holds water or not go to the main limited entry hunts - bookcliffs, pauns, elk ridge, henries and look at success ratios. Who do you think had the highest percent of success? The BOW HUNTERS!!!

With the increase of buck to doe ratio the fair way to handle this is take the applicants for each hunt and give that many permits to each hunt.

Also the dedicated hunter's benefit by increased DEER HUNTING privledges, so why do so many of the hours go to NON-DEER projects?
 
Hey... uh.... Cannonball last I looked rifle guys had the bulk of the tags and the rut for elk... Am I missing something or do you not speak English when I said I wasn't interested in dividing hunters???






2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
Cannonball - would you kindly list the reference for your numbers. If what you say is true then Utah has the very best bowhunters in the world. I'm not calling you a liar. I just want to see the statistics you are quoting. I have never seen bowhunting have a higher success rate than rifle hunting.

And as WW said, this is not about dividing hunters. It's about doing what's best for our deer herds and keeping oportunity high. It's not about bow vs rifle vs muzzleloader. It's about providing opportunity. It may boil down to giving a rifle hunter a tag every year but you can only harvest one deer in 3 years. If you wait to harvest it in the 3rd year then great you get to hunt every year. If you harvest it the first year you are done. I am a bowhunter by heart but I also love to hunt rifle with my kids and family. Each one of us have to decide whether or not it's worth sacrificing our deer for selfish desires or sacrificing our selfish desires for deer.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
As you all know my opinion has been against 29 units all along. Not just because of lost opportunity! But because no doubt it will not grow more deer under current management practices. Also I kinda feel as though the tag cuts were a Knee jerk reaction numbers pulled out of somebody's back side! Truly look what the tag cap of 1994 did in realty nothing without the wright management decisions being made.

However this is the hand we were delt! Maybe just maybe we can get something to work if everyone can pull together. Quit making this a Archery vs Rifle a North vs South a rich vs poor. No doubt everyone has got to give a little even Brutus! There has got to be a balance for everyone no matter who you are or what you see as a trophy or sucess.

I think if we could pull together as sportsman get some changes made both in our management of our deer herds and our Rac and Wildlife board system we just may see some progress for both hunters and deer numbers.

I think the obvious is right in front of us just needs to be delt with on a bigger scale than one drawn out piece at a time with little to no effort put forth on many of the issues.

I don't want this to cater to just a few more big bucks for a few less hunters. I would like to see deer number's grow opportunity grow! Hunting is just not about inches its not just about opportunity it's also about lived experience's it's about good times with family and friends, it's about FREEDOM!

Guess what I am getting at is if this don't get implemented by a certain few for there own agenda's and philosophies it could be a good thing. We as sportsman need to shuffle the deck of cards delt so they are not staked against the outcome of the hand.

I think we need to look at a few things a little closer such as

Putting more effort on coyotes during the wright time's of the year such as whelping season fawning grounds. I don't think it does alot of good to pound coyotes in the salt flats when the deer are in the foot hills you get the general idea

Habitat restoration we need to pay closer attention what restoration projects are being replanted with. Don't make alot of sense to seed with cheat grass when you could plant better browse and shrubs with more nutritional value to deer. you guys know what I mean.

Makes no sense what so ever to pound doe's on the winter range quit obvious most aren't resident's of the area!

Don't make alot of sense to construct fences across mitigation routes leading to crucial winter range!

Not to smart to hold late season Elk hunts wright during the rut!
Gal don't know why a good majority of does are getting bread until latter in the year.

Makes alot of sense to let everybody chase the deer around the winter range and burn there fat reserves off during the most crucial time of year for there survival. So they can be the first to pickup a brown horn.

One of my most favorite lets estimate herd count's off of harvest data that's not mandatory on general season units in Utah you can all see how accurate that is.

Good idea to make sure all those roads are excess-able god forbid someone has to walk a bit or ride a horse into there they may get cold or stub there toe and need to get out of there quick!

We probably ot keep ignoring the biologists we all pay to.

And for "gawd sakes" Make sure no matter what we cater to those who run the fastest jump the highest and fart the loudest!!!!!!!

Just to name a few not all by no means but ah heck lets just cut a few more tag's everyone can see how well that has worked in the past!
 
"growing more deer" thats quite a popular theme, too bad its not as easy as it sounds, yea, blame coyotes, elk, and whatever else. Just put more cattle and sheep out there, eat all the grass and all this deer feed will just start growing everywhere, OH don't forget, they need to quit planting cheat grass? And my wife thinks Im getting Parkinsons because I shake my head all the time
 
Maybe I read it wrong, but go to the Limited entry units on the Utah DWR site for 2009.

Where I am coming from started with the ranting of bowhunters at the rac meetings and continues with bowhunters who think they should have more permits and more time to hunt because of the lower success of the bowhunters. You know it and I know it that the bow hunters have a very good organization. They just don't know when to quit demanding more. There were more bow hunters than rifle hunters on several of the best southern utah areas. I've bow hunted all of my life, but recently the avid bow hunters have been riduclous with their demands and have had a listening ear with the DWR and BGB based on this lower success argument. Let's face it, probably most Utah bow hunters are on this forum, but I'll bet you would be hard pressed to find 5% rifle hunters on this forum. Most rifle hunters get out the rifle a week before the hunt to sight it in, shoot it at a rock during the hunt, clean it/or not, put it back in the case, and wait until they draw again. I've talked to a lot of archers who "high grade if you will" until the rifle hunt (they're dedicated). They make sure they get two deer, every three years, but only shoot at the BIG ONES on the archery hunt. I am repeating myself - time to stop. Anyway, you know and I know it the success of the archery hunt could go way up if they choose not to hold out. Stopping the state-wide bow hunt is the best thing they have done.
 
Bull,

Here you go.

Hunt # Hunt name Unit # Hunt type Permits Hunters afield Harvest Average days % success Average age
001 Henry Mountains 15 Archery 7 7 7 8.0 100.0 6.5
002 Paunsaugunt 27 Archery 32 32 27 7.6 83.9 4.6
003 Henry Mountains 15 Any Weapon 25 25 25 3.1 100.0 4.8
004 Paunsaugunt 27 Any Weapon 90 90 74 4.7 81.7 4.9
005 Henry Mountains 15 Muzzleloader 7 7 7 4.2 100.0 4.3
006 Paunsaugunt 27 Muzzleloader 41 41 36 5.7 86.8 4.6
007 Henry Mountains 15 Management 10 10 8 2.6 80.0 5.8
008 Paunsaugunt 27 Management 48 48 45 2.5 92.9 ?
009 South Slope, Diamond Mountain 9 Archery 16 16 15 4.9 93.8 4.3
010 Book Cliffs 10 Archery 121 119 109 5.1 92.0 4.4
011 La Sal, Dolores Triangle 13 Archery 4 4 3 6.3 75.0 ?
012 San Juan, Elk Ridge 14 Archery 11 11 10 4.1 90.9 5.0
013 West Desert, Vernon 19 Archery 36 34 21 8.1 63.3 3.9
014 Fillmore, Oak Creek 21 Archery 9 9 3 6.3 37.5 5.5
015 Plateau, Thousand Lake 25 Archery 6 6 4 10.2 66.7 2.0
016 South Slope, Diamond Mountain 9 Any Weapon 89 88 86 3.5 97.4 4.2
017 Book Cliffs 10 Any Weapon 393 390 357 4.2 91.6 4.3
018 La Sal, Dolores Triangle 13 Any Weapon 11 10 10 3.4 100.0 ?
019 San Juan, Elk Ridge 14 Any Weapon 33 30 27 4.0 90.0 4.6
020 West Desert, Vernon 19 Any Weapon 130 128 112 3.8 87.9 4.1
021 Fillmore, Oak Creek 21 Any Weapon 31 31 21 4.7 67.7 4.3
022 Plateau, Thousand Lake 25 Any Weapon 21 21 18 4.2 85.7 6.4
023 Cache, Crawford Mountain 2 Muzzleloader 20 20 18 6.9 88.2 ?
024 South Slope, Diamond Mountain 9 Muzzleloader 21 21 20 2.9 95.2 4.2
025 Book Cliffs 10 Muzzleloader 125 125 107 4.0 86.0 4.1
026 La Sal, Dolores Triangle 13 Muzzleloader 4 4 4 3.3 100.0 ?
027 San Juan, Elk Ridge 14 Muzzleloader 9 9 8 3.9 88.9 4.6
028 West Desert, Vernon 19 Muzzleloader 37 37 30 3.4 80.0 4.6
029 Fillmore, Oak Creek 21 Muzzleloader 11 11 8 4.7 72.7 5.0
030 Plateau, Thousand Lake 25 Muzzleloader 7 7 5 5.1 71.4 3.5
031 Alton 27 CWMU 26 26 23 4.4 88.0 5.3
032 Blue Spring Hills 1 CWMU 13 13 5 4.0 40.0 ?
033 Bootjack 1 CWMU 5 5 5 5.6 100.0 ?
034 Dove Creek 1 CWMU 19 19 12 3.8 64.7 ?
035 Engineer Springs 1 CWMU 3 3 3 4.7 100.0 ?
036 Fort Ranch 1 CWMU 1 1 1 9.0 100.0 ?
2009 LE Deer
 
I am having a hard time buying into the Elk vrs Deer thing. I am sure there is a lot of places in the state where there is not that many elk and the deer are still struggling. I can think of two that I am familiar with, Oak Creek and the Vernon.. Both these areas in the past had great deer herds, and still have the same or better habitat now. They are both limited entry, so reducing the hunters has not helped. I don't know why the deer have not came back, but I am sure it has nothing to do with the elk
 

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