Utah Deer Units

[Grandmesa]

Hello MM! I have been following all the posts on the proposals on Utahs mule deer herds and units.Personally I think Utah has a huge problem to over come. What would everyone think about taking 1 unit (Sub unit) such as the Monroe,Manti, or any unit we as hunters wanted to see rebound as fast as possible.Call it a test unit.With this unit to apply for a permit you must first check in 5 dead coyotes.Second you must apply for a cougar tag on this unit.Third this unit would be subject to shorter seasons.Something like two five day archery seasons(1 early 1 late)1 muzz season (same dates as the current dates) and 1 three day rifle season.

With this proposal it would have to be limited to a resonable amount of hunters for the fisrt 3 years then grow from year to year.

Last HAVE NO DOE HUNTS!!!!!

What do you think??????

 

[long_mainbeam]

thats dumb

 

[dleonard3]

Do the coyotes have to come from the "test" unit? Because that would get pretty tough to do in a short time. Them varmints is smart.

 

[Grandmesa]

The coyotes could come off any unit any state anywhere!! Just a reason for more dogs to get shot.Its not about just the test unit but about sportsman having a voice in how management is handled on a unit. We have more common sense as sportsman than the dwr and conservation groups combined.

 

[Grandmesa]

Long_Mainbeam....I'm glad you think this is stupid!!My questions to you.How many coyotes have you shot this season? Do you have any positive input on this or do you just enjoy punching keys on your computer?

My point of this post is a fresh idea!!

 

[Grandmesa]

Fishon...Chime in on this please!!!!

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

Although I'm for killing every Coyote anybody can possibly kill,You'll never shoot enough of them out to fix what needs fixed!

We need to throw them some chocolate(1080)!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!

I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
And a good BBQ!
I am Medicine And I am Poison!

 

[Grandmesa]

B Bop...I agree totally!!But it is a start. Reading your posts I think you are a houndsman? Would you be up for killing some dogs to apply for a specific unit? Also do you think elk are having a impact?

 

[fishon]

JL

I am all for testing out things to see what effect they will have. But most MMers just want to complain about any idea that comes out.

So you know I have had discussions with the DWR about even making a couple units predator free and elk free and see the results.

Your idea is not dumb because at least you are giving an idea and who knows, maybe it would be a starting point.

I can tell you it would do more good then just cutting hunters tags. We already know what happens when you cut 50,000 tags, another 13,000 won't help the deer at all either.

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
The next buck to have a fawn will be the
1st.

 

[Aaron84]

I cant apply for a cougar tag till 2014 and my coyote calling skills suck so it looks like I'm fuqed on that one.

 

[Grandmesa]

Tony

Thanks for getting in on this.I agree we need to make some units elk free (premium deer units would be a great start)I don't think that would be a tough sale to the dwr. Also I agree cutting 13000 deer tags is a joke.Predator free units I don't believe are the answer. The days when we were killing big lions on units we were also killing big deer. I don't think coyotes like to be in the same area as dominant lions.Just my opinion.

My thoughts on a test unit are if you could someway get the coyotes under control the fawn survival would rise double to triple. Also if the grazing rights were put back into place or ever increased that puts more items on the menu for predators as well as helps grass regrowth.I dont believe deer and elk compete with cattle and sheep for food. Then taking some presure off the animals by shortening hunting seasons and running the seasons closer together to allow the deer to come into winter in better shape.I don't know that this is the answer statewide but a five year pilot proram on a small unit would be a small sacrifice for a test. The idea behind checking in coyotes from anywhere(not just the test unit)is to get hunters hunting predators. Those who just want to complain don't get to enjoy the chance to even apply by doing what they do best!SITTING ON THEIR HANDS AND COMPLAINING!

The Thousand Lake might be a great place to start. It has low success on big bucks and is not being used even close to its potential. The hunting in general for anything is not being used to its potential.

Do you think it possible to get the over educated dwr to even listen to a proposal?

J.L.

 

[Zeke]

I think your idea is fresh but the biggest complaint I've heard is the "smaller units/limited hunters" is turning all our general deer hunting into LE units. This sounds like a fast-track to a limited entry unit.

I don't really mind this, however it's contrary to what I think everyone wants from a general deer season.

One more little thing; would everyone in that unit need to buy a cougar tag? This seems counter-productive unless the cougar tags are unlimited. Otherwise tags will be bought with no intent to hunt cougars, taking them from the real cat hunters.

I'm not harping on you, I'm just thinking out loud (well... typing out loud)

Zeke

 

[Grandmesa]

Zeke

I think you are misunderstanding my post. Its not a complaint just a idea to take a specific unit and add some guidelines for applications and hunting on the unit. If you could turn one unit around with deer populations it would make more opertunity for hunters to hunt deer not just trophy deer.

No everyone would not need to buy a cougar tag simply apply for a cougar tag on the test unit if you want to hunt deer on the unit.Its a revenue builder for the unit.This would also take application pressure off the other cougar apps on the units that the "real cat hunters" want to hunt more often.

What would you like to see out of a general season hunt?

J.L.

 

[Grandmesa]

Zeke

1 more thing to run past you. If you could take a unit such as the Thousand Lake which is not producing like it could and turn it around. Then after deer numbers are up tun it back over to the Genral Season Unit hunter.Do the same plan on one of the five existing genral season units at time.Turnig things around unit by unit would you support that?

 

[Grandmesa]

Founder lets hear your thoughts on this..And how about someone from SFW.

 

[BIGJOHNT]

It would be nice to try something,who knows it may work. Its like all of these docters out there in the world that are just practicing medicine ,right.
Well let us practice some wild life. haha
I dont think the dwr knows any differnt or we couldn't hurt things and make it worse.
Grandmesa are you from Colorado ?

 

[Grandmesa]

BigJohnt

Practice wildlife in Utah..We use them to balance the checkbook..HaHa

No I'm from central Utah.

 

[BIGJOHNT]

Just wondering,I use to hunt elk on the grandmesa's as a young man.

 

[Zeke]

GRANDMESA

You asked what I wanted to see on the general hunt.
Well..... that's a loaded question.
I want low hunting pressure and a 180"+ buck behind every tree! LOL

OK, back to reality.
We all agree that we would like to see improvement but that means different things to different people. I really would like to see fewer hunters and bigger bucks. About the only way to accomplish this is to limit the hunters in a given unit (read LE) I'm not opposed to this at all but I think for the average hunter, whatever that is, the term "limited" means NOT being able to hunt. I've been able to get away from the people, no problem, but big deer need to exist in order for us to see them.

There is a big difference in a quality experince and just an experience, at least to me.

One thing we can all agree on is the need to affect change in order to effect improvement.

I also have a different perspective than most hunters. We have always been able to find bucks. They are just not the size that means very much to me. The old sad fact is we can pass on the smaller deer and the next guy will not.

There are tons of things that need to be done regardless of how we manage the hunters.
Predators, highways, habitat, feeding programs, competition for feed etc.

From what I've heard, the average Joe just wants to go hunt and if he gets lucky he will kill a buck of some sort. I would prefere a better experience even if that means one hunt every 3 years.

Remember, "it's not the number of breaths we take, it's the moments that take our breath away". (not my quote)

BIG BUCKS TAKE MY BREATH AWAY!

Zeke

 

[mtnrunner260]

GRANDMESA,
You mentioned grazing would promote grass growth.
I thought deer were more browsers, like eating sagebrush?
Thanks for helping me learn.

 

[Grandmesa]

mtnrunner260

You are correct.They are browsers. The point with grazing rights is more meal choices on the menu for predators. I don't see to many deer grazing like cattle.But my opinion is as cattle clear tall grass and whatever else it promotes better growth as well as pounding seeds into the ground.

 

[tstewy]

Good idea no way of implmenting that though cougars are only a small part of the problem just ask any cougar guide. My soloution i dont have one pick one problem and then work on it but with winter kill on the ss units they probley are going to need to make dramtic tag cuts and hope to god that it warms up fast. or start feeding. Oh by the way books is going to take it in the butt this year so think about it before you put in for that tag.