BAM!! 2 for 3 Area 102

wybighorn, I have not hunted that area. I have a friend in R.S. who has spent a lot of time on that unit and he said he is going to help us.
 
wyobowhunter, Thanks for the clip, I will be spending quite a bit of time out there scouting. How did your Dad do? By the footage I hope he shot a good one and I hope you left at least 2 good ones for us.
 
Still plenty of good bucks down there. A buddy of mine in RS took a guy hunting for several days last season. Took awhile, but the guy ended up with a 200 gross buck.
 
Here's a pic of the buck he killed with his bow.
1724dadsbuck.jpg

Still plenty of good bucks in the unit. I am already seeing some good growth.
 
Wow, what a horse, and with a bow noless!!! That must have been exciting getting that close to a hog like that!
 
Wyobowhunter, Would you recommend Bow over Rifle? My buddy in R.S says yes. What do you think?
 
a buck like that dosent come easy. and with an arrow.... good work. great mass! what a pig!
 
Congrats to your Dad on a great trophy. Sweet buck. Hope to hunt the unit someday also. Me and my wife are sitting on max points, but so is alot of others.
 
How many points does 102 take? What is max points currently at in Wyoming? Based on your guys' opinion what are the top 5 deer hunts right now?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-11 AT 09:40PM (MST)[p]ITS NOT 102....Not in my book!
areas in G are just if not better than 102 you just have to
earn it ....
GR
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-11 AT 04:22PM (MST)[p] bggmhtr, The antelope rifle hunt starts on September 20 so most of the big bucks I was watching either went nocturnal or left the area. I think nocturnal, I would reccomend the bow hunt, but I am partial to bow hunting anyway. The rifle hunt still produces some monster bucks. I personally saw two bucks that grossed over 200" that were killed on the rifle. Last year this hunt caught the begining of the rut which was a factor on one of the bucks.
 
Why in the world would anyone make a bragging post about a mediocre trophy muley unit?

Can it be because of 10-year-aged internet and magazine hype? Nawwwwww..........

When the WYGFD employees decided that they would increase buck tags from 300 to 400 in order to cater to the internet hype.......in the middle of a 15-year drought with corresponding poor fawn recruitment............and to get away with giving themselves bigger salaries and newer trucks......and bigger coffee pots.........the big buck hunting in unit 102 went by the wayside.

Stop hyping and living off the 10-year-old reputation of this once great unit. It is over and done. There are many units in Colorado where a semi-competent hunter has a better chance at a 180" buck.
 
I'm about 99.9% sure I have pictures of this deer about a month before hunting season. Super nice deer, especially with a bow!
 
You nailed it,Whisk.The hype has gotten so bad that draw odds have plummeted to a dismal 7% for residents.People act as if they've drawn the Strip.I mean congrats on the tag,but don't be expecting a 200" buck.That deer lives there,but he is pretty rare.More likely a 170" buck could be expected for hunting hard in 102.10 years ago nobody put in for this except locals.No you have people from all over the state putting in,and it's all due to the hype.I guarantee you almost all LQ units in Wy have the same quality deer.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-29-11 AT 11:03PM (MST)[p]Thanks, Cliff.

I hunted 102 in 2001 as a NR with only one scouting trip plus some phone work. And the bucks were stunted after 2 years of severe drought. I looked at the several bucks in the older age class.......passed on a 32"/170" typical several times........passed on a 180 5x6.......that had a stunted 30"+ rack. Passed on a 175" 25" typical plus one kicker.......twice. The whopper of the group was whacked by a kid on a quad.......he was a 28" 190" frame with a number of stickers bringing him to 210"-220". Great buck!!! That just happened to be the buck I was after but never saw. The Game Warden had told me about him.

I ended up with this 30", 6 or 7 year-old drought stunted 7x4 plus minor eyeguards. I shot him while he was raising hell rutting does on October 27........no kidding. Great percentage of older bucks on the hunt.........but all drought stunted after two years of it. Saw lots of 3 and 4 year-old-bucks that had potential the following year if it was a wet one. But haven't been back. One of the best muley hunts I've been on.

3260wy_01_buck_1.jpg
 
Nice buck,Chris.G&F claims an average age class of 4-5 yrs most years on bucks in 102.This is pretty impressive,but you have to remember that very few bucks of that age are capable of growing trophy class antlers.There are many,many 5 and 6 year old 3x4's,3x3's,2x3's,etc.Everybody wants to hunt 102,but no one wants to kill those deer.Over time,that genetic strain begins to dominate.One only needs to go down there during the rut to see what type of deer are breeding the does in 102.Pretty sure lots of the people that put in for it nowdays might change their minds after seeing the quality.That being said,I would hunt it again if I had the chance-in a heartbeat.But I know the unit-it's my back yard.A couple 200 inch deer are killed almost every year-but the vast majority of bucks killed are 20"-22" immature 2 and 3 year olds.When you factor in older age class bucks that don't carry trophy antlers-presto!!You get the older average age class that looks real good on paper,but in reality means something totally different.A guy will see plenty of deer;lots of bucks.Half of the better bucks are killed by sheer luck like you said-the other half by skilled hunters who do their homework.Out of 400 tags there,I would lay odds that less than 15 hit the 180" mark.
 
This year has been very wet, so it should be a great hunt. What Wyoming unit did you apply for this year whiskeyman? Congrats that looks like a nice buck, I like the dark antlers in contrast to the skull.
 
Ya bleach does wonders eh?

Sit tall in the saddle, hold your head up high, keep your eyes fixed to where the trail meets the sky...
 
There is 400 tags and typically hunters kill 10-15 bucks over 180". That means 3.75% of the hunters will come home with a deer that the unit used to be famous for. I'm pretty sure every LQ unit in wyoming has the same odds of harvesting a 180" buck. I put in for 102 only because its in my back yard. If I had to drive 80 miles I'd probably pick a different unit.
Lots of big 3 pts and 4x3's, please don't pass up one of these big mature deer to kill a 2-3 yr old 140-155 type deer on the last day of your hunt. Thats the typical ending to the fortunate few that draw tags in unit 101 and 102.
 
That sounds like very good advice from someone that is very familiar with the unit and what it holds!!!
 
Cliff, you're absolutely 100% right about the gene pool in 102. Believe me, I'm certainly not one of those that believes that every buck will grow to 200" if given the time. Genetics + Age + Feed (body condition) all contribute to antler size. Body condition is also weaker after an a$$ kicker winter, too. My vote for the most important is....genetics. Genetics trumps the other other factors.......by faaaaaaar.

I probably harped on the antler growth impacts of drought in my message too much. That's cuz I'm fairly aggravated with it after 15 years of this sheet. All bucks and bulls aren't stunted by drought. Some seem to be "drought-proof".....and still grow to their antler potential regardless. Maybe they are residing in an exceptional feed patch that is still medicro in spite of the drought....or some other gd reason.

I'm aggravated cuz I've come across a lot of really nice animals in the last dozen years.......that would've been GREAT ones......in wet or even normal moisture years. Add 10% to a 180" buck and you get 200". Add 10% to a 340" bull.......and he is a TOAD. The effects of drought years on the antler growth of bucks and bulls has been pretty well documented on vids, photos, etc in the last decade. It's completely reasonable to expect most (I said most....but not all) bucks and bulls to be off 10% on a drought year than on an average or wet moisture one.

Here is the WY unit 102 spot where the kid-on-the-quad lucked into the 220" buck..........GREAT BUCKHOLE in that barren desert!!

464wy_102-1.jpg
 
I know it as well as a non-resi can.. have been their for deer and lopes......many times and it was a easy draw until Garths mag Hunting Lazys... I mean Hunting Fools Mag made it a "pick"....I hate him for ruining it for hunters who had to do their own homework find a area where I could count on hunting 7 or 8 out of 10 times!
102 needs a gene pool douche bad...
bio dudes need to trap all the bucks, drug them and spray the crappy 3 pts with out eye guards and paint a blaze orange "X" them have a youth hunt for the blaze "X" AND "GIVE" OUT 255457254 TAGS.
 
This has been a great thread - very informative, especially for a "Garths mag Hunting Lazy" like myself that drew a 102 tag this year (with 0 points!) (and a Utahn to boot).

By the way, I would really appreciate it if those willing would send me GPS coordinates of exact locations where I can find a monster buck. Thanks (sarcasm intended)
 
Talk about rubbing it in---drawing a tag with 0 PPS. The next thing is that with that luck you will probably go there and kill a 200" buck just to show WM they are still there!!!
 
Huntin' Fool may have been first,but I guarantee you this site right here-yes,that's correct-monstermuleys.com-has as much blame to bear for the hype as Huntin' Fool does.A nonres drawing with zero points is indeed lucky.I wonder what those odds are!Do us all a favor,and kill a nice 28" 6 yr-old 3x3 or 2x4 on the last day(if you haven't killed anything already)instead of a future trophy 25" 3 yr old!Just a suggestion.Wy G&F will never support a youth hunt for management type bucks in 102.That was suggested by feduptwo at a spring season setting meeting,and he was SCALDED by a warden for being selfish at that same meeting.For suggesting we give youth more opportunity?What a joke.As long as Wy G&F is getting the amount of revenue they think they need to run things,they are totally satisified with the status quo.And until they hear otherwise from hunters,that will never change.Those who drew 102-enjoy a fun hunt-just don't expect to find a trophy buck behind every bush.
 
I'll start by saying I know nothing about 102. I've been following this thread and find the info very interesting and informative. A couple guys seem to know the unit well.

With that said, my buddy came by my place last night and said his son had drawn a 102 and went on to tell me what a great unit it was and how his son will surely kill a 200+" buck...easy.

I kept my mouth shut but I had to think, really? a 200" buck with no problem? Boy it must be great! LOL

Maybe too much hype of 102. Probably still a bunch better than where I'll hunt for deer this year.

Good luck to all,
Zeke
 
.5% of the 400 hunters will kill 200" bucks south of rock springs this year. But I guess there is a chance. Come out hunt hard and enjoy yourself. Just be realistic in your goall
 
MM did not even come close to damaging
Draw odds like Fools has.....102 was not
even discussed much here 7 or 8 years ago
Z so I really do not know what you are saying...
I been here on MM long nuff to know dude...
 
I"ve been visiting this site since it's existence.Have you???I know how the hype works.I'll agree with you that Huntin' Fool started the hype,no doubt about it.All MMer's that read Huntin' Fool continued the hype to those that don't subscribe,via MM,dude...All you have to do is read Zeke's post and you'll see what I mean.BTW,don't read into my last post that I am slamming MM.Not so.Just stating fact,pure and simple.Now do you know what I'm saying,Dude??
 
Okay girls, round one is over and there is a one minute pause before the bell for round two, LOL!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-11 AT 06:24PM (MST)[p]The draw odds for 102 have been pathetic for ten years.


The truth is there is no secrets anymore. If it wasn't hunting fool or mm it would have been someone else. The review from hunting fool on102 was very cautious and it has been for several years. I haven't read a post on mm about 102 that has overstated the quality in years. Everyone that knows anything about 102 knows exactly what it is which is a fun hunt for average deer
 
I am new to MM, I have been reading through the responses here and my first comment is in regards to antler growth.
When my friends first started raisin deer, they had top shelf genetics, the best in nutrition, but they were watered manualy.
The antler growth was so-so at best, but when auto watering was installed, the antler growth was incredible after that. Not saying anybody is wrong, but water along with genetics are where it's at. The last comment I read makes a ton of sense. I am also a member of Huntin fool, and they have done nothing but warn me about the entire state of Wyoming. I appreciate the honesty on this site as well.
I had a very good conversation with one of the Huntin Fool guy's yesterday and they were very professional and informative asalway's. They,like Monster Muleys are a huge help to flat landers like myself that love the west as much as anyone.
 
Sounds like many of you guys see thru and understand the Wymoming Game and Fish! Their never-ending need to protect the status quo is almost disgusting! There is an undeniable problem with the mule deer herds across every single area I have been into over the course of the past 6-7 years. I grew up in Rawlins so as far as area 82 is concerned I know it better than any other unit in the state and yet the game the fish turns a blinds eye to the mule deer epidemic we see out there. I spent 7 years hunting regions g and h as I spent a number of years living in Jackson Hole and lets just say I finally decided I would rather deal with south rawlins then anything these areas have to offer. I am not sure what the official mortality is this year but the numbers my buddies are reporting is scary to say the least, and again..... what is being done? Four years ago my buddy drew area 101 as a resident and we spent 10 days specifically scouting for his hunt, another 20-25 days shooting prarie dogs and scouting, and 5 days of hunting. The best deer we saw was probably a 5 year old 22" 2x4. Needless to say his tag went unfilled. We did hear rumors of two big deer taken but can not confirm or deny this.

It is very sad to me to see what has happened to our deer herds in the state of wyoming, and even more sad to see nothing being done. I go to the meetings, wrote a six page letter to the state office after last years hunt season. I see the game and fish do nothing!

As stated earlier, the only benefit anymore for drawing a limited quota tag in this state is the "lack" of people you see versus the general hunts. I truely believe there are good deer in any unit in the state of wyoming, general units included, but in my mind drawing a lq tag should up your chances of at the very least seeing mule deer herds like the "old days". It wasn't all the long ago I was trailing behind my old man on my first deer hunt and looking at 20-25 four point deer a day and countless does and fawns a day! This past season in area 82 the only does and fawns I saw were strapped to the back of fourwheelers and in the back of the utv's. I saw one buck that was worthy of a stalk and he was a toad but never could catch up to him and I hunted 7 straight days and walked countless miles. It is unfortunate!!!!

3 years ago I was fortunate enough to draw a late season deer tag in area 82, should have been a great hunt, and it was from an enjoyable standpoint, but as for seeing deer, what a joke. And although area 102 has what.....7% draw odds, area 82 type 1 tag is down around 2%, making it one of the most sought after tags in the state. You couldn't pay me enough to apply for this tag again, why should I.....the general hunt isn't any better or any worse than this "great tag".

Sorry guys....had to vent for a minute, for those of you that drew good luck, I hope you have good fortune on your hunts this year
 
I think most people on this website are aware that the mule deer are facing bad times in many parts of the western states due to human encroachment, weather, overhunting, etc. I just have one question for you and it's this. When there is a very bad winterkill, which appears to be the case down in those two Regions again this year, what, if anything, do you think the F&G should do in that case? I know they have cut days off the seasons and decreased or eliminated the doe tags in response to it. What else can they do when Mother Nature is the big culprit like it has been down there twice in the last ten years? Feeding, other than in small localized pockets, is pretty much out of the question and/or too expensive. Also, I forgot to say welcome to the Forums and come back often!!!
 
muleywarrior-I am done talking to G&F people.From now on my suggestions,questions and concerns are going straight to the commissioners.TOPGUN-I see no reason why G&F can't close a unit or 2 when the situation becomes dire for a couple years.I am no biologist,but other states have done this with good results.Wait!-I do see a reason after all!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
 
I can't believe you all think that nothing is being done. We had the Wyoming range mule deer initiave where we had three meetings and came up with some good ideas to start the return in quality to the Wyoming range deer herd. About 100 sportsmen participated and we had some tough, meaningful ideas on the table. The game and fish polled the general public and surprise, the general public was opposed to any idea that had any teeth. Most of the public doesn't even know there is a problem. Why should they put up with closed seasons, standard opening dates, or for that matter any sacrifice.
The Wyoming game and fish is puppets to the apathetic general public, and the commissioners strings are worked by the game and fish brass. It will take an organized revolt from concerned sportsmen to make a change, the problem is we can't even agree on what to have for dinner, and keep fighting each other over every little issue.
The game and fish listens when you hammer your point home. A couple of years ago the G&F wanted to raise permits in 102. A few of us got together, spread the word in a rapid fashion and got 60-70 people to attend the license setting meeting. They backed off the tag increase pretty quick. That's how change happens, when your collective group is loud enough that they can't choose to ignore you.
 
I've been following that initiative on the F&G website and I'm pretty sure you are correct in what you mentioned in your post about the apathetic general public. It will take the dedicated hunting community to get involved like you mentioned to achieve positive results. I'm not sure that complete closures of units would be necessary unless the population has dropped so low that they are in danger of being lost in an entire area, especially if seasons were very short and only for bucks. That may be the case though if the deer have been hit as hard the last nine months in parts of G & H like I'm reading! Also, if seasons remain open maybe they should be set to open after the rut so that does have been bred and obviously they should be left alone. Obviously some older bucks will be taken, but very seldom are bucks so old that they will die by a bullet rather than old age or bad weather and they will have passed along their genes. That's just a few thoughts and maybe they are way off base.
 
I don't believe there really is a good answer for when mother nature strikes us. I have my opinion about what should be done with these regions but they are my opinion! There are so many ideas floating around and everyone has there own beliefs what should be done. One thing I WILL say without hesitation is that cutting the days from 14 to 9 will not and has not ever helped the situation. This is not the first time the G and F have cut season dates, in fact prior to last year it was also a 9 or 10 day season. It has never helped, espically when they allow any deer to be killed. Until this year that the general season allowed for any deer to be taken.

I wish that more people would get involved when it comes to protecting our hunting heritage, it is hard to stomach when you see the thousands of people hunting when October 1st rolls around but at the game and fish meetings you see so few people. Until the vast majority stands up for our deer herds I don't think anything will change.
 
feduptwo,

I do believe there are things being done, don't get me wrong! In some cases I think it is falling upon deaf ears, mostly because of the greed of wyoming game and fish. In other cases I feel that what is being done is too little to late, like I said in my last post......there are literally thousands of people roaming the forest come Oct. 1st, yet where are they when the meetings roll around, why are there not more letters being written to the game and fish. I have tried to get my buddies and fellow sportsmen to write a letter or get a petition going, but its just not enough sometimes.

This spring run-off has caused quite a bit of road washouts in area 82 this year, I wish the forest service would just leave the ruined roads alone and force people to walk in. I know they can't keep people from our national forest but maybe postpone the road fixes until after hunting season, give the deer one year to recover. There are some good washouts, completely cutting off access in some instances.
 
What can a Non-Resident do?
I am from WI, but love Mule deer huntin as much as the next guy.
How can guy's like me help? cause I know there are many of us over here that feel the same way you guy's do.
Here in WI we have been fighting a program called "Earn-a-Buck" where in certain area's (some years state wide)DNR make us kill a doe before we can shoot a buck, that results in an (DNR statistic) buck fawn slaughter, killing your buck herd and if you guy's are familiar with WI whitetail bucks, we have ALOT of Whoppers killed every year, but our buck population is in trouble because the dumbest deer in the woods is a Whitetail buck fawn, though he is still smarter than the oldest muley buck...Just kidding boy's. hoped that would get you boiling then smilin at the same time. But the Doe harvest that first weekend consist's of 80% of the antlerless harvest being buck fawns. CRAZY isnt it?
Hunter's have fought this thing, but our stick just isnt big enouph it seem's, cause they sure dont listen, WE DONT WANT IT!! But they do it anyway, kinda like......obamacare?
I must say this and I hope it doesnt ruffle to many feather's but your Game and Fish Dept, is in a whole other league than the WI department of natural resourses, I have alway's admired the little "kick back" on each tag provided for the land owner and the access yes program, Here in sconny, you will never see anything like that. Very frustrating so in a sense I can relate to you fella's, but seriously would like to help the cause from WI if I can, I have hunted WY for years. Your pulic lands have been ok, some awesome, Wisconsins for the most part.....SUCK and you will never get on a persons private property anymore like you can in WY. seem's to me you have really good people out there, you guy's keep up the fight, and we over here in flatville will help in any way we can, just let us know how.
 
I have a good buddy that grew up in Wyoming but is now a Montana resident but applies every year, even if just buying a point, and tries to hunt Wyoming realistically about once every three years or so. As a non-resident he has wrote to wyoming game and fish headquarters probably more times than I have to express his frustrations, and believe it or not when something good gets done to congratulate them on a job well done.

Booner76, what you have expressed with your department of natural resources seems to be identical to what I have seen from the Wyoming game and fish.... they are very aware of the mule deer situation but seem to ignore the guys that do write and complain, and for what....an all mighty dollar!

The non-resident hunters that like coming to wyoming in my humble opinion should be at the top of the list to want to see some improvements, or at least see something being done to help our deer herds. Wyoming caters to the non-resident! I am o.k. with this as I too like to apply for the surrounding states as a non-resident and I too see the business end of it for the non-resident. Here is my thoughts, understand they are just my thoughts; true a non-resident tag is very expensive even if it is still not the highest price compared to other states, if I were a non-resident paying the dollars to the wyoming game and fish I would like to at the very least see some respectable deer. Who wants to pay several hundred dollars to see a couple does and fawns, not me! Also, the non-resident is the only ones that get a prefrence point in the deer,elk, and antelope draws, making it statistically possible to draw any tag in the state at some point. Which is not the case for residents. Wyoming is also generous in the number of tags given to non-residents, look at area 82 type 1 tags, granted only one tag was issued to the prefrence point pool but there are only 10 tags issued in this drawing. However, in on the general hunt in region w it was a 100% odds with 1 or more points. Region W is the same tag as a late season 82 tag for the most part.

So I guess what I am getting at is in my opinion the non-resident has at least equal reason to want to do something for the deer population.

One of my biggest beefs with the wyoming game and fish, forest service, blm is that something has got to be done about all the man made roads and abuse of our public lands. I believe this will be and is our biggest crutch when it comes to helping our deer populations, to me even more so than the season lengths, the season openers, the number of tags being issued! This past season in my neck of the woods the gross abuse of the utvs, the four wheelers, the motorcycles was enough to make you sick to your stomach. I remember a day when a guy had to get out of his truck and put some miles on the old boots to find the deer and elk, anymore he can get a utv anywhere he wants to get, never even has to leave the machine. There are man made two trackers every direction you look. It is sad how lazy people have gotten these days. Now to be fair the forest service did come in at the middle of the season and white arrow a bunch of the country I was hunting, only to have some guys drive right over the signs, when there are no consequences for your actions nothing will change. I blame this soley on the guys being paid to make sure guys are following the rules. I guess on the flip side of it if we as sportsmen can not police ourselves why should we pay anyone to do it either. We are only hurting ourselves at the end of the day. It never ceases to amaze me to find a wheeler in the bottom of a canyon that only five short years ago you rarely ever even saw anyone due to the ruggedness of the country, and then to have the dude have the nerve to ask me why there are no deer in the area? Its disgusting!!!!!
 
Muleywarrior,

I agree that many sportsmen are complacent in attending meetings, etc. We all need to be more active in management...but.

Where you and I are going to have a disagreement is this sentence of yours, which is complete and total bull$hit.

"In some cases I think it is falling upon deaf ears, mostly because of the greed of wyoming game and fish."

Really?

The game and fish is being greedy?

I think you better try to comprehend the management problems and associated costs that the WYG&F is responsible for.

I like how residents whine about the "greed" of the WYG&F and then take a $43 dollar resident deer tag, a $57 elk tag, and a $38 antelope tag. Let me level with you....combine it all and you've provided a single tank of gas for a warden patrolling and protecting our wildlife.

Thanks, but I dont call that going all-out in the way of finanically supporting wildlife.

Management costs money, and the costs are not going down. More intensive management,llike many are proposing here, just costs more. You cant do more with less and its well past the time that residents start paying more of the freight.

The easy part is whining and complaining at a meeting...volunteering on projects and opening wallets is how proper management happens...and largley what most "hunters" arent willing to do.

Not to mention that a vast majority of the habitat enhancement projects MUST be coordinated with, and be acceptable to, the varrious LAND management agencies (ie: BLM, Forest Service, etc.). The WYG&F has no statutory right to do anything on BLM or Forest Service land to help wildlife habitat.

Wildlife is a complex issue and if you feel like your $43 resident deer tag, and attending a meeting once a year is good enough...you shouldnt be shocked when you find out that you get what you pay for.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-04-11 AT 10:29AM (MST)[p]
Good post BuzzH! Don't blame the F&G when they don't even have the authority to close roads on the millions of acres of BLM and NFS lands or do anything to enhance the habitat or game opportunities on those or private lands without the cooperation and joint help of the Feds and property owners. Don't blame the F&G because they need more money to operate when they have to use millions of dollars and manpower to monitor the wolves and grizzlies that the Feds and antis have crammed down our throats! It's sportsmen's license money that has to be used for programs dealing with those two nongame animals. I know the nonresidents cry about the high cost of licenses, but we wouldn't have to pay anywhere near those fees if the residents would pony up and pay their fair share! They seem to cry foul even more than we do when the F&G justs asks for a few more dollars per resident license and then has to compensate by raising ours by $75 or $100 because the residents are unhappy with their "expensive" licenses! Our elk tag is now over $600 and the deer tag over $300 compared to the cheap resident licenses that BuzzH mentioned. Before the residents squawk too much about the greedy F&G, I think they better all start forking over a little more of their share of the pie chart before they gripe too much---JMHO!!!
 
Muleywarrior,

One more thing...those BLM, FS complaints you have regarding a lack of enforcement.

You do realize that there is 1...maybe 2 LEO's for the Med. Bow NF? The BLM likely has 1 or 2 for the entire Rawlins field office.

Just how, in the good hell, do expect them to cover the vast amount of acreage to catch people riding atv's in closed areas?

Its the same exact problem, the agencies need money to function and that includes funding for more LEO's and more money for management.

The BLM and FS have been largely hamstrung by shrinking budgets...year after year. Again, they are at the point that they can no longer continue to do more with less. Its to the point that they just have to do less...with less.

Have you written, called, or visited with your very own Representative Cynthia Lummis?

You do realize that she has a proposal that would shrink the Forest Service and BLM by only hiring one employee for every 2-3 that are lost through attrition? How is that proposal going to put more feet on the ground to catch those that abuse public lands?

I guess Rep. Lummis has a vision of the last BLM or FS employee turning out the lights when the last employee leaves???

Fuggin" brilliant, lets continue to cut budgets and employees and expect more and more out of the very few left who are busting their a$$, and who have already been doing the jobs of 2-3 employees for years.

Its a joke...

Enforcement and land management costs money...and its not getting any cheaper either.

Yet, the same people that whine about the lack of enforcement vote for idiots like Rep. Lummis...un-frickin'-believable.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-04-11 AT 10:41AM (MST)[p]BUZZH,

Actually I guess I kinda agree with what you said, at least as far as the way I stated it. In the letters I have sent to the game and fish I have discussed this very issue. I would rather have resident prices, not non-resident, go higher and have the number of tags cut. I don't have all the answers but I do like that in the state of wyoming we have general areas, which allows us to at least have the opportunity to hunt deer and elk every single season. However, I would not be upset to see the price of resident tags go up, way up to be honest, I would rather the game and fish gain there revenue this way than trying to sell as many tags in these general areas as possible and make up for revenue that way. Example 10,000 resident deer tags @ $43 = $430,000 keep in mind this is just a random number as far as how many tags but I can guarntee there is at least 10,000 resident general deer tags sold in the state of wyoming on any given year. Or 8,000 resident deer tags @ oh I don't know say $60 = $480,000. Actually I just looked it up on the game and fish website and in the year 2009 there were 57,884 general tags sold so I was actually way off on my example but you see my point?

Point is I do agree with you and I apologize for the wording! Tag revenue is a hot topic for me, as I do believe that residents need to take a stand on this. I guarntee one thing about that though, only the true hardcore muley guys like this idea, the other guys will scorn you for even mentioning price increases. I for one will continue to pay to play, I understand that it costs money, nothing is free and the resident prices is a joke.

BUZZH I do love guys like you that like to assume you know me and what I do from year to year as far as hunting in this state. You seem to have your poop in a group and seem intelligent as I have read a number of your replies to other posts but don't for one second think you know the first thing about me. If you want to have a good discussion by all means lets. I know I don't have all the right answers and it is a very complex issue but I do my part when and where I can. I am even willing to sacrifice my own hunting for the future of our hunting as a whole.
 
Again,

If you actually read the entire post you will see that I said if we do not police ourselves things are going to get worse. My point with mentioning the lack of patrolling..... what is the reason of putting up white arrow signs if they aren't going to enforce it. If we can't afford to enforce let's not waste another penny to even bother putting the signs up. I know the point of the signs is to keep the honest guys, like me, honest. I know this, you know this!!

p.s. I didn't vote for Lummis! Again don't point fingers!

Actually BUZZH the sad thing for me is the non-residents get the fingered pointed at them more times than not, but in my experience the residents are the ones I see violating the laws. That to me is upsetting! You?
 
FEDUPTO I went those wyoming range muledeer meetings and they were a complete joke and a waist of my time and i will never go to another meeting held by the game and fish again in my life. We were told at the 1st and 2nd meetings we were there to help come up with a plan to increase the wyoming range muledeer herds up to the 50,000 objective and gave ideas to help do so and some really good ones. But when meeting 3 came around the Game and fish changed there story and said the point of meetings were never to increase our deer herds to 50,000 but to maintain the current numbers. And every good idea that the public came up with from a management point of view that would help to increase or maintain our deer herds were shot down. Some of the ideas were limited quote for all residents and of course they said never will they allough that, shutting the season down and again no way, shortning the seasons and again no way,and there main reason for saying no is because of low hunter recruitment making less opportunity for young hunters would only make matters worse. So what are they going to do when there are no deer left and there are no kids hunting. Its the lies from the wyoming game and fish that keep people from going to there meetings, people see through there bull$hit and realize that they are putting these meetings on for show to make people think they care and there opinoins matter. I just feel stupid for falling for it and going to those stupid muledeer initiative meetings.
 
My reply wasnt directed at you...just in general.

Like it or not, until the attitude toward the game and fish and land management agencies changes...and I mean a complete 180 degree turn...expect more of the same.

You said it yourself, "the other guys will gripe about a price increase". Funny though, they all spend thousands on atv's, trailers, spotting scopes, rifles, trucks, etc. etc. etc. etc. Yet they whine and cry about the "cost" of a deer tag??? Cheapest part of the entire operation...and by a landslide.

You arent telling me anything I havent seen dozens and dozens of times in meetings in WY and MT.

Whether or not you voted for Lummis is immaterial...she's still YOUR representative, and if you want her dumb ideas squashed, call and tell her so.

I'm a WY resident and I've written letters, called, and even met face-to-face with Lummis, Barrasso, and Enzi in D.C. Let them know that THEY work for US...and that the hook-and-bullet crowd is tired of their $hit and gerrymandering in land and wildlife management. They havent a clue...and I'm not afraid to tell them so.

Better management will cost more money...period. If we dont fund the G&F and Land Management agencies properly...all the things you brought up are NOT going to change.

Just a simple fact.
 
BUZZH,

You hit the nail directly on the head......Gripe and moan about a price increase but yet the toys they can afford blows your mind. Funny too because that is usually the first thing I will tell them when they want to disagree with the price increase! Where I work there is a group of four or five die-hard deer hunters that get together and try to share some ideas and pass them along to the appropriate people and each and everyone of us have very different personal strategies we would like to see the game and fish try, even we disagree more than you can imagine but the one and most important thing we all can agree on is that the common goal is the same. I have heard things so drastic is closing areas down for years, making the entire state limited quota, etc. Each everyone of them in theory sounds good but in order for it to happen some sacrifice must be made. Hopefully one day we will see a change!

Good Luck in your hunts this year!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-04-11 AT 03:14PM (MST)[p]Everyone has ideas on how to help fix the problem but collectively all we do is talk. I've heard it said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We ought to form a group meet in person and get some achieveable goals established. We should have a few public meetings spread across the state and then establish a leadership. Then after we have some achievable goals we should make the ideas that the collective group came up with a legal Petition and take it to the commission. Any takers on helping get the whole thing rolling?/
 
Not a bad idea at all...but keep a few things in mind.

Habitat wise, you're done as far as addressing the commission is concerned. Your success there is only going to happen through meeting with, and selling ideas, to (underfunded and understaffed) agencies like the FS and BLM.

So, the only success you will have is related to season structure, length, quotas, etc. by addressing the commission. I would argue that anything that can be done with that is going to be ineffective. The main reason being people not agreeing and the differences in areas across the state. Blanket policy doesnt work. Lets be honest, choosing WHAT areas of the state to work on will be a tough thing. Most hunters are mainly only concerned with THEIR areas that they hunt.

I really think your idea is good, but time and time again its been proven that groups like the MDF, $FW, etc. have a difficult time doing whats truly best for WILDLIFE. They tend to cater to their big contributors and the commercialization of wildlife...more than doing what would really benefit wildlife the most.

Until the mindset changes from "how do I get to take a B&C buck" to really doing whats in the best interest of mule deer...its going to continue to be a down-hill slide.

We need to get the train back on the tracks first, and that is no small task.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-04-11 AT 07:13PM (MST)[p]I think that habitat is hands down the most important issue when it comes to a healthy mule deer herd. Unfortunately its the most complex issue and not a achievable goal. fifty sportsmen aren't going to solve this one. I believe that mother nature (rain) is the most influential player in habitats and ten more years of the wet springs and mild summers will go a long way to helping matters. There are some giant treatments on the horizon that should also help.
I think the problem's we could help with is quality of hunts, more opportunity, better draw odds for le hunts(not preferred points). Four Wheeler restrictions. Revisit how landowner tags and commissioner tags are issued. some of these issues are ones I have issue's with but most are other ideas I've heard on mm and in talking with other sportsman. Remember insanity is doing the same over and over and expecting different results.
 
fedup, I'm in!!! that is exactly what I was gonna type tonight when I was nearly finished reading your comment ,I am a non-res, but I love wyoming, and mule deer and I can get a fricken army from WI!!! You tell us what you need and we will do our best to help, with whatever. I am a non-res, that honestly appreciates the professionalism I have witnessed from your game wardens, and appreciate the help I have recieved from the wy game and fish, but I too am frustrated at what
I have seen in the last ten years with the deer heard, tired of reading huntin fool and having them say, WY sucks but just keep buying points because it's gonna get better, when it's not!
I dont mind spending the 300 + dollars for a deer tag, I just want a shot at a big buck, I dont need to hunt there every year either, I would rather hunt there every three years and have a chance to kill a mature buck, rather than hunt every year and nearly have no chance at all. Maybe I am not making any sense, but I just want to kill big deer like the rest of you, but more importantly, I want my 2 week old 2 and 4 year old son's to have a chance. Does that make sense? I personally would like to see more wardens, with stiffer fines to the jerks that drive over signs, put a limit on atv's, Like a permit, you can use one if you need too. Make sense?Now where do we go from here?
 
This is a great thread that shows just how hard it is to manage game populations. Weather, predators, funding, opportunity vs trophy, etc. are factors that are not easily controlled or balanced. It's impossible to keep everyone happy. In some ways, it would be nice if funding didn't depend so much on tag sales but that would give hunters less influence with Fish and Game Departments. There are no easy answers, especially when you consider that most people are selfish and ignorant:)
 
Man, all I wanted to do was announce that we had a chance at a good buck. Now Im just depressed.
 
Read # 22 over and over and shoot the BIGGEST frick'n buck any of has seen, I am gonna apply for that unit next year.
Good Luck, Hope you kill a slob!!!
 
A slob with double drop's. 8" H's all the way up 20" 2's....oh god I have to stop..............
 
Depressed??Depressed!!You will have a great hunt!I don't know how many big mulies you've killed,but you have a chance(I said a chance!)at a very nice buck.All we are saying is 102 is not what it once was,and doesn't hold a candle to the Strip,Henry's,Antelope Island,etc.Not even close.If you are happy with a 160-170 buck;with the definite possibility of a bigger buck;you will have a great hunt.
 
>Man, all I wanted to do
>was announce that we had
>a chance at a good
>buck. Now Im just depressed.
>

Congrats on a fun hunt. Thats what you posted for anyways right. I have not read all the stuff above, but I just wanted to say congrats and good luck.

You will be fine!!! Great hunt, tons of fun. Yeah, not as great as it once was, but there is still some studs that come out of the area every year. A friend of mine killed a pig out there last year and by the way the feed is this year, horn growth should be excellent. Depressed? Don't be, just be excited!
 
But, you will have to work hard to find a true giant. Find some good country and glass your ass off!
 
bggmhtr,

What are you plans for hunting dates? Many of the mature bucks in 102 (as with many areas in the west) will remain purely nocturnal until the last week of October. They will be hard to spot until then. There is no secret to hunting the opener on this hunt. In fact......if you only have a handful of days.......hunt the very last days of the hunt.

A group of good hunters I spoke with a decade ago said the magic day for their hunt was October 26. On my hunt it was also October 26. They suddenly appeared....becoming visible.....staying out late in the morning. It was like a switch had been flipped on. I glassed this area shown below hard from every angle for 10 or 12 days......and never saw most of the bucks I saw on the morning of October 26. Those bucks were living there the whole time.....just completely nocturnal. I spotted 5 or 6 mature 5+ year old bucks from this exact spot on the morning of October 26.....two of them at 30" or better, several 170-180".

Funny how I can remember all these details after a decade since I usually can't remember what day of the week it is. But......I can remember every last detail about most mature bucks that I've seen.....

Another thing about 102 is there is a genetic trait for many bucks to grow stickers off the G-3's.

954wy_102-2.jpg
 
Whiskeyman,

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate it. The only confirmed dates right now will be the opening of the archery. We will start scouting the first weekend in August and continue throughout the hunt until we find the bucks we are looking for. This is the most important hunt we have this year so we will be able to be very patient.

We also live close enough that running up on the weekends should not be a problem for anyone of us.

Our goal is to be #1 on the Wyoming Trucks Big Buck contest this year. Ha Ha
 
The TeePee Mtns along with the Red Creek Breaks just NW of the TeePees are great areas. That's where I would hunt if I had your tag.
 
Keep in mind.....my info is 10 years old. Things sometimes do change over that time period. On the other hand........good buckholes seem to stay that way for a while until some exterior source (such as oil/gas well development) ruins the whole area cuz of too much access and too much human activity.

The Laney Rim/Laney Canyon just west of Potter Mtn was TREMENDOUS in 2000 and 2001. Juniper trees, tall sagebrush, a small amount of Mtn Mahogany, limestone cliffs.....plus lots of low growing forbs for the deer to feed on............with Salt Wells Creek flowing good water in Laney Canyon to the north.....and Gap Creek flowing as well...........kept those deer in there. Beans Spring Creek had bucks on the very upper rocky slopes in spite of the fact that there is a county road in the bottom. Everybody was driving to someplace better.......why look there?!?!?!

The spot I found would have held several 180"+ bucks after mild winter/wet spring.......but it was not be for me that year.
 
10 years ago! wow... I was there then .... 180's behind every bush! was there last year and it was 150/160ish ....
still you have to put your boots on a get into the steep nasty chit... glass glass glass dawn to dusk every day you may spot a ok buck only because he flick an ear or blinked!!
190 plus is their for sure but need to know your chit and put the work in....then you have to make the shot and then find him and pack him out and in the chit...that alone makes it a lifetime hunt and worth it everytime!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-12-11 AT 07:54AM (MST)[p]A guy hunting that area would want to read this thread, as there is some good info here . . . IF you take one thing from what Whiskey said above, it's not specific areas, but how big old bucks behave. We all know they don't get killed by running and looking back. Nope. Big old bucks get big and old by moving at night and lying under a cedar by day, and watching hunters walk right by them. Not until you cross that imaginary threshold will these deer bust. For some deer this is pheasant-like close. A lot of luck is involved in taking a deer like this in October, but do the following to knock some of the luck you will need out . . .

Circle more remote spots on the map, pay attention to water (and tracks near there), get out of the truck and slow hunt these areas, and glass your azz off . . . Oh, and don't shoot that first handsome 160" that runs out and looks back . . .
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-12-11 AT 10:21AM (MST)[p]I've been putting in for this area since I was 14 (Back then that was when you could starting hunting in Wyoming) and I'm still waiting for my chance. I won't tell you how old I am now but my 12 year-old son just drew a 102 tag the first year he put in. I have to admit, I was really excited for him at first. However, this thread has me very confused on how to feel.

I just can't imagine that there are 400 bucks for every hunter every year (seems like WAY too many). I would really like to see him get it into some deer and have a great hunt. Especially considering that I told him that we pretty much donated the $ for our elk tags. We wont hunt elk this year because this hunt and the opener of the elk start on the same day. I guess I just feel that this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity so we better take advantage of it.

nontypical mentioned some great 3 points are in the area. I would love to see my son put one of those boys on ground! I've been out there once already this summer but the only thing we saw were little 2 and 3 points (18" bucks).

Sounds like we need to find a good spot and glass, glass, glass. I hope to have a picture with buck and a smiling young hunter to share come October! Wish us luck.
 
Wishing your boy and you the best of luck!!!
You will have a great time, nothing like makin memories that last a lifetime with the ones we love the most is there?
 
wybighorn-You are correct in your assessment about the 400 tags in 102.Most people think they are going to kill a big deer when they draw this tag.Then the same people become impatient and kill a 2-yr old 20" 4x4 later on,as they lose patience.A good friend of mine hunted a LQ unit last year.He hunted every day the season was open,passing a multitude of bucks before finally being rewarded with a very nice buck on the 2nd or 3rd to last day of the season.Your son can reasonably expect that 20" 4x4 if that is what he wants to kill.Things really have changed in 102 over the last ten years.I killed a good buck in the general area WhiskeyMan mentioned,back when 102 had only been LQ for a coupla years.The thing about 102 is,nowdays a good buck could be found anywhere."Buckholes" are kind of a thing of the past now,mostly because no one can keep their mouth shut when they find a good spot.They take their cousin or uncle or buddy there,and they tell all their friends as well.We all know what happens then.Keep scouting.If you have limited time to hunt,hunt the last 4-7 days(especially the last 4),unless you find a buck scouting that you want to kill;then you better be there on the opener.
 
good luck on your hunt and don't worry i gaurantee you it will be an amazing and exciting hunt. Hunted it last year and everyone is right you will see 20-30 decent bucks (22"-24") every day but don't count your self out on a real whopper we saw three 180 class and one 9x7 stud low to mid 190's. funnest hunt i have been on. GOOD LUCK!!!!
 
Hey Thanks guys! I plan to give it all I've got. The plan for right now is to hunt the first three days and the last five days. I would love to see my boy get the best deer he can. Although, I do worry when I see him stuck behind Eastman and Trophy Hunter magazines all day (he must have learned that from me, lol!) I just don't want him to get discouraged. It's his first year hunting so I'll just have to wait and see how he reacts but I think it's easy for young hunters to get discouraged when there is lack of action or the expectations are too high. Those of you that are parents understand where I'm coming from. I just want to do the best I can for him as a Dad. I just mention 22" 4 points to him because I want to be realistic too.
 
I read what you wrote about about how your boy learned to look at eastmans magazine because of you, and it reminded me of something that happened to me several years ago, I was with a buddy headed for northern MN to help another buddy that had just had back surgery get a bear out of the woods he had just killed. So during our 4 hour ride up north we stopped for fuel and of course the station was FULL of porn, while my buddy and I were having a look the lady behind the counter said" you guy's are sick", at first I didnt understand, but all of a sudden I realized, In a sea of porn, the only magazine we found interesting was an addition of......Eastmans hunting journal and commenting on a HUGE muley they were featuring on the cover, oblivious to all of the crap around us. LOL!!!
 
Thank you everyone for all the information you have provided. Again, hopefully we will have some great pictures for you to view at a later time.
 
If I were you guys, and wanted a good assessment of 102, I would listen VERY closely to what nontypical says here. He ain't exactly a youngster to this thing called trophy muley hunting.

He is an exceptional trophy mule deer hunter.....prolly one of the best in the west. Not to mention he lives right there.
 
Booner, kinda reminds me of me and the rest of the MM crew , I mean we could all be on some porn site right now as there is no shortage but here we are.

Bill

Look out Forkie, FTW is watching us!
 
Huh? I though this WAS a porn site! I get pretty excited when I look at the pics and read the stories. Does that count?
My wife tells me this site is "my girlfriend"! Maybe she's right. LOL
Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-14-11 AT 03:42PM (MST)[p]My step dad drew that tag this year as well. He has drawn it 5 times now in 15 years. I drew it with him back in 99. I think it's funny how people try and down play the unit like it isn't good. For this time in age anything isn't as good as it used to be 10 yrs ago. The unit is still very good. I go and look at deer there every winter and it's just like every unit there is monsters there if you put in the time and know where to look.


I don't think it will be an Antalope Island hunt, but it's still a great unit and holds great deer.
 

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