WEST BEAR RIVER HELP

monstermuleyhunter

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Ok ok I know im going to be crucified by most of you for admitting that I'm doe hunting but hey I need to fill the freezer! Anyway I drew a muzzleloader/archery/shotgun only late doe hunt out in the west bear river area hunt #2001. I had some crazy idea that Thatcher mountain was public but boy was I wrong. I drove around every inch of this unit today for 7 hours without a single piece of public access to anywhere. The unit starts roughly 10 miles south of little mountain and goes all the way to Faust vally road to the north and out arould ATK. Im just hoping someone can point me in the direction of where to go. I talked to a couple farmers and they were way cool but their ground wasnt in the unit or didnt have deer. Thanks in advance for any help.
 
I would ask land owners with corn still standing if there is any. You can usually get a push and scare something out. Most dont want the deer in there feilds. I have seen most east of little mountain in the feilds.




KeeP in touch... ANTLER ADDICTION THERAPY GROUP on FB.
 
Tag? + Gas? + Time? + All other expenses? = $300.00 You could buy 100 lbs of ground beef for that price. Good luck on filling the freezer.
 
Lonetree...good point and its one I thought about but for starters it isnt anywhere near $300 and buying beef is pretty dang lame if you ask me. I knew I was asking for some jabs but before anyone throws a puch I hope they ask themselves if they've ever been antlerless hunting and if they ever have then just they best not be delivering blows. I'll take your luck and run with it!
 
No jabs here. Just something to think about? I sincerely hope you get your doe. If our Great DWR has determined that does need to be harvested, then so be it! I have nothing against the harvesting of antlerless animals when herds can sustain it, But I personally don't think our deer herd warrants a doe hunt anywhere in the state. And yes buying beef is lame, but beef tastes a whole lot better than deer.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-11 AT 08:23AM (MST)[p]I cannot f'n believe they issued doe permits in that area...WOW, I wonder why the deer herd is in trouble.They INIGHLATED the doe's just west of there two years ago..I guess they just want to knock off the herd on the other side of the hill to keep things fair...But on the upside, it will be great for the buck to doe ratio...fuggin brilliant management.

(this is not directed at the hunter)
 
I have a freezer full of elk and deer. I'll tell you what I'll trade you more meat than any doe will yield for that unpunched tag. I don't need the meat that bad and the state needs that doe. Let me know and ill trade you steaks and roast straight across. Let me know and I'm being serious.
 
If thats truly the reason why you are hunting then how would you turn that offer down?

Elkoholic.gif
 
Maybe because he likes hunting and there is no difference between a doe and a buck... you can't eat the antlers anyway.




It was a big bodied 2 point. (this is my signature)
 
Thanks Travishunter.... just so were all on the same page I never said I was only doing it for meat...however that is a big part of it. The other part is seeing a smile on my boys faces when they get to help with it. I have been a dediacted hunter for 9 years and killed 3 good bucks..not because I havent seen them in fact I passed on multiple 170 bucks 2 years ago. I see hundreds of bucks every year because I put in the time and sweat on the mountain for most of the year every year. Even though our deer heards are down I certainly think theres not a darn thing wrong with a guy shooting a deer to eat it once in a while. Also I dont think theres mch difference at all between shooting a smaller buck and a doe..you will say well that doe can no longer have babies...I say well that buck cant spread his stuff to have babies either...in fact shooting a smaller buck is probably worse because their much more important to the reproduction aspect because all rut long they are mounting anything they can...a doe only has up to a few babies.
 
The stupidity and ignorance in the last few posts is almost beyond belief. One wonders how such can get by in this world.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
well i guess my stupidty has some ground to stand on...

Doe Management Equals Deer Management

By Kevin Holsonback, Wildlife Biologist

What does ?doe management? mean? Among most wildlife professionals, doe management is synonymous with antlerless deer harvest. Antlerless harvest should be one of the most important components of a deer management plan. While most hunters and clubs realize the importance of managing bucks on their property, many fail to realize the importance of managing antlerless deer as well. Many things can be accomplished with an adequate antlerless harvest, all of which ultimately affect the buck population. A balanced sex ratio, shorter and earlier breeding season, increased reproduction and recruitment, and improved herd health are a few of the objectives that can be met with proper antlerless harvest.

Wildlife biologists often encounter concerns about antlerless harvest recommendations when assisting private landowners and hunting clubs with developing deer management plans. Hunters and landowners are often reluctant to harvest does because they are afraid they do not have enough deer. This misconception can often be dissuaded with sound information concerning general deer biology and the affects of antlerless harvest.

One population characteristic that is greatly affected by antlerless harvest is the adult sex ratio. Why is a balanced sex ratio important? If there are a disproportionate number of does in a deer herd, it is reasonable to assume all will not be bred in a timely manner. Many does will not breed and conceive on their first estrous cycle because there are not enough adult bucks in the population. These does may not be bred until their second, third or later estrus. The result is a long protracted breeding season. Also, these does will give birth later in the year than does that conceived during their first estrous cycle. These late summer, early fall born fawns typically encounter vegetation that is generally poorer in quality and quantity as it ?hardens off? for winter. This causes most late born fawns to come out of their first winter in poorer condition than early born fawns. In addition, many late born bucks will have poorer antler development as 1? year olds than fawns born earlier in the year. With an extremely unbalanced sex ratio, some does may not breed at all.

Too many does also means the bucks will have to do very little searching for breeding opportunities, reducing a hunter?s chance of seeing a buck. When the number of does greatly exceeds the number of bucks, the bucks do not have to compete for the right to breed. This reduces the number of rubs and scrapes observed during the hunting season. Prolonged breeding seasons wear bucks down more than a shorter, more intense rut. Bucks in this situation enter late winter and early spring in much poorer physical condition. These bucks face a much tougher recovery period in the spring and summer, which can affect antler development and body weights the following year.

A given habitat can only support a certain number of deer in healthy condition. If the number of deer exceeds this level, habitat degradation and poorer herd health result. About one-third of a deer herd should be removed each year to maintain the population at a stable level. If the sex ratio is balanced, doe harvest should make up between 40 and 60 percent of the overall harvest to maintain this healthy balance. After only a few years of aggressive antlerless harvest, doe sightings may decline. Many hunters fear the decreased sightings are a result of drastically reduced deer numbers, when in fact; they have only educated the surviving does with the increased hunting pressure.

Fawn production and recruitment typically increase as a result of doe management. Does usually begin breeding at 1? years of age, and if healthy, will reproduce each year until they die. Fifty does in good condition produce more fawns than 100 unhealthy does. Additionally, fawns produced by healthy does tend to have higher survival rates than fawns born to does in poor condition.

When deciding to harvest does, hunters must be careful to avoid harvesting buck fawns or ?button? bucks. This can easily be accomplished with just a little practice at identification. Hunters can learn to tell the difference between adult does and fawns by observing body shape and size. By waiting until several deer are present, a size comparison of the deer can be made. Additionally, adult does typically have longer and larger faces than fawns. The shape of the head on most buck fawns is flatter than a doe?s head and the developing pedicels or ?buttons? are often visible upon close observation. Behavioral cues may help distinguish age classes of antlerless deer; fawns are usually more playful than adults and are generally not as cautious. Plus, fawns are often the first deer to arrive at a feeding area.

Managing antlerless deer harvest is just as important as managing buck harvest. As a matter of fact, a good deer management plan will always place equal importance on managing bucks and does. Often, in their attempt to meet harvest goals, hunters may forget that hunting does that have been pressured can be just as difficult as trying to harvest a mature buck. Don?t overlook this opportunity to enjoy a challenging and exciting hunt when trying to improve your deer herd.
 
monstermuleyhunter, Justify it how you will, this guy is talking how he helps clubs...whitetails!

If you are such a great hunter and there are so many Does that NEED harvesting, you shouldn't need assistance by posting your request.

I have nothing against hunting Does where they truly need to be reduced but i'll not ever shoot one myself. I'm going by other hunters who know the area that believe there is absolutely no need of a Doe hunt, period. Also, your statement of how young bucks being more important for the breeding than Does are, was,.. laughable at best.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Once again words are being put in my mouth so I will just end this post and go kill a DOE! Thanks got what I needed...FYI deer reproduction is deer reproduction...it doesnt matter whitetail or muley they all shag the same way!
 
your statement of how young bucks being more important for the breeding than Does are, was,.. laughable at best.

You never can find any good mule deer studies it seems,but every whitetail study I have read about age class breeding says the older mature bucks do the least amount.It allso wouldnt matter what the age class doing the breeding was,if he is only a forked horn doing it and his pappy was popey its still popeys genes.
 
Granted, they do get the deed done the same way but muley management and whitetail management are far from the same. Ignorance is bliss!

Sorry about the hi-jack, really! It just rubs me wrong when some Game depts sell out our public Muley deer herds, for whatever reason, but usually to get more revenue.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
6x7, From many years of patrolling a large Nevada ranch during the rut, i have observed that with muleys in a healthy deer herd, the bucks approaching or in their prime chase off the young bucks and do most of the breeding. The older, bigger bucks give er hell for a week or so but the bucks that are in their prime soon move in, wear out the old guys, and take over the doe groups in the breeding basins.

Nothing is set in stone. I'm sure the young guys also have their day if they work at it hard enough.

Joey



"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
kill one doe now. how many deer would be thier in 5 years.if you had not....?? if you love deer. leave them does alone.....











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+1,Joey.Couldn't have said it better myself.Personally first of all,I can't believe anyone that would call himself a hunter would need someone to tell him where to find a freakin'doe???And then justify the killing of one by saying they only produce a few fawns??If it wasn't so sad,it would almost be laughable.Just for the record,I've never seen a buck produce a fawn.You aren't killing one deer,you're killing closer to ten!!
 
Okay, all these posts bashing these guys going to shoot a doe are bothering me. If it is legal, let them make the decision. We don't always know the background as to why the decision is made to do so, but we sure are quick to crucify somebody for it when in reality they are doing nothing wrong. I understand the reasoning of not shooting a doe. I get it. But I don't get slamming the guys for doing it. I drew a doe tag this year and I am going to use it. I don't need y'alls help in finding one or opinions on why or why not I should take one. Fact is I got the tag solely to provide my 3 boys ages 7, 5 and 3 a hunting experience that I cannot do (for many reasons) on a general buck hunt. This experience is the main purpose of my decision to do it. We will use the meat and teach the boys the importance of taking care of and utilizing the animal as well as some ethics of hunting in general. I am looking forward to it because I know how much my boys will love it and are and have been looking forward to it for weeks. Would it be cheaper to go buy some meat? Of course (although the crap you buy in the store is not worth the money). Would it ensure more deer in the future? Maybe....nobody knows if that doe shot would have survived the winter in the first place. On top of all this you don't know what a hunter has done for years. I think the assumption would be if you would shoot a doe, you are the type of hunter that shoots forked horns every year. But that doesn't necessarily fit the bill. I buy a buck tag every year (usually archery)but only harvest a buck every 4-5 years. I do this because I love to hunt and I don't need a deer every year to feel good. I'd rather shoot a good quality mature buck. In addition I feel good knowing that if I pass on many smaller bucks I may have the opportunity at larger ones later. In addition, most years I put in for a doe tag with the intention of never hunting them. This takes a tag out of somebody else hand that would go out and shoot one. How many of you self righteous doe savers do that? Next year all you guys making the point of saving the does should put in for the permit and leave it on the shelf and put your money where your mouth is. The point is don't crucify somebody when we don't always know the full story and reasoning behind their decision to hunt what they hunt.
 
give this guy a break. he was asking where public ground is to hunt a doe. does anyone know of anyone AT ALL that hunts bucks out there??? No, I bet you don't. Everyone hunts Monte.... LOL

Im positive that hunting does out in Box Elder county isn't going to negitively impact the "herd" thats always mentioned on here. That doe isn't going to put babies on Monte, that doe isn't going to put babies on the Pavahnt...


It was a big bodied 2 point. (this is my signature)
 

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