Mule Deer Number Question

[cantkillathing]

Who believes these numbers? I want to know if anyone believes the numbers on this. Is there anyone that believes it is even close.

How do we get better mule deer counts?

Box Elder , objective 20,000 - post 2010 estimated herd size 17,100
Cache , objective 25,000 - post 2010 estimated herd size 16,500
Ogden , objective 11,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 9,150
Morgan, So. Rich , objective 12,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 9,900
East Canyon , objective 7,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 9,100
Chalk Creek , objective 10,500 -post 2010 estimated herd size 8,500
Kamas , objective 8,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 5,950
North Slope, objective 6,200 -post 2010 estimated herd size 6,200
S. Slope, Yellowstone, objective 13,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 10,000
S. Slope, Vernal/Diamond ,objective 13,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 12,000
Book Cliffs ,objective 15,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 7,000
Nine Mile , objective 8,500 -post 2010 estimated herd size 4,600
La Sal, objective 18,100 -post 2010 estimated herd size 6,600
San Juan , objective 20,500 -post 2010 estimated herd size 12,900
Henry Mountains ,objective 2,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 1,200
Central Mtns., Manti , objective 38,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 19,900
Central Mtns., Nebo , objective 22,600 -post 2010 estimated herd size 11,800
Wasatch Mtns, D Fork, Heber, Timp ,objective 20,600 -post 2010 estimated herd size 18,000
Wasatch Mtns, Currant Cr. ,objective 15,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 10,000
Wasatch Mtns,Avintaquin ,objective 3,200 -post 2010 estimated herd size 1,700
Wasatch Mtns, Salt Lake ,objective 2,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 1,800
Oquirrh/Stansbury ,objective 10,600 -post 2010 estimated herd size 8,700
West Desert , objective 11,200 -post 2010 estimated herd size 8,800
Southwest Desert ,objective 3,200 -post 2010 estimated herd size 1,400
Fillmore , objective 12,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 9,000
Beaver ,objective 11,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 10,900
Monroe ,objective 7,500 -post 2010 estimated herd size 4,800
Mt. Dutton objective 2,700 -post 2010 estimated herd size 1,800
Plateau ,objective 25,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 12,500
Kaiparowits ,objective 1,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 400
Paunsaugunt ,objective 5,200 -post 2010 estimated herd size 4,900
Panguitch Lake ,objective 8,500 -post 2010 estimated herd size 8,100
Zion ,objective 9,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 9,900
Pine Valley , objective 12,800 -post 2010 estimated herd size 12,600
STATEWIDE TOTALS ,objective 411,900 , post 2010 estimated herd size 293,700

 

[hornkiller]

Wasatch Mtns, Salt Lake ,objective 2,000 -post 2010 estimated herd size 1,800

We need to shut down the extended archery right now its in really poor shape!


All there numbers are a bunch of bull $hit!!

 

[Hola270]

The Fillmore (Pahvant) 9,000....C'mon, who are they kidding??!! Maybe a quarter of that if they are lucky!! When are they going to stop lying to us?

 

[LOWCOUNTRY]

I don't know about every unit but the four Ive hunted in so. UT Zion, panguitch lake, Dutton, Boulder/kapaorwitz their estimated numbers may only be close on Zion it's still lower than 9900. The rest are at least 40% to 50% lower with the boulder/kapaorwitz being the worst I doubt there are 5000 deer left there. But hey there still was a trophy winter doe shoot north of parowan on the panguitch unit which is below objective. Pretty damn sad.

 

[cantkillathing]

so far nobody agrees, I am waiting to see if anyone agrees with the numbers.

 

[buck44]

sounds like a bunch of crap to me.

 

[cantkillathing]

come one there has to be someone that agree's

 

[mulecreek]

I don't think these numbers are 100% accurate but I am positive they are better than herd estimates derived from the 5 days some guy hunted deer this year or the weekend he went scouting or the summer camping trip.

I don't have any idea on how to get better numbers on herd estimates but I also don't think it is a scam from the DWR. Personally, I think trends are more important than entirely accurate herd estimates. If the same estimation method is used from year to year it should show a trend. That trend is what can be managed to and I beleive that is what the DWR is trying to do. It would appear that they have failed miserablly in this effort but I don't think it is a scam. Being bad at your job is not the same as being a scam artist.

 

[soutahhunter]

cantkillathing, the only ones who will disagree with you is the people who are afraid that tags will have to be cut and they may miss out. There is no where near the deer they are saying in any of the units. It is sad that they try to lead us into thinking something that is not true. Someone ask to go with them on a count and see what you come up with.

 

[nebo12000]

Went with the Wildlife biologists on a classification count a few weeks ago. Went down past Gunnison and up through Willow Creek into Mayfield. I ask him what he had come up with so far in the Central Region and he said it was about 7-8 bucks per 100 does. After we were done for the day we counted 205 deer -- 17 of which were bucks. Pretty much the same buck/doe ratio as he had counted and classified up to then. The fawn doe ratio was around 30 per 100 does-- not good. Fawn survival and how to increase it remains a large problem and for the most part a guess as how to substantionally increase fawn survival.

 

[soutahhunter]

Good information Nebo, I went on my own in Southern Utah 4 different times and come up with and average of six bucks per 100 doe, and it was hard to find 100 deer. If this stands true in all the units how can we afford to give out so many tags with so few deer.

 

[3blade]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-12 AT 07:54PM (MST)[p]>Went with the Wildlife biologists on
>a classification count a few
>weeks ago. Went down past
>Gunnison and up through Willow
>Creek into Mayfield. I ask
>him what he had come
>up with so far in
>the Central Region and he
>said it was about 7-8
>bucks per 100 does. After
>we were done for the
>day we counted 205 deer
>-- 17 of which were
>bucks. Pretty much the same
>buck/doe ratio as he had
>counted and classified up to
>then. The fawn doe ratio
>was around 30 per 100
>does-- not good. Fawn survival
>and how to increase it
>remains a large problem and
>for the most part a
>guess as how to substantionally
>increase fawn survival.

Thats about what I saw on the beaver unit and I hunted the entire month, archery season. I figured about 50 fawns per 100 does. Now how many of those fawns survive the winter is another story. This is the problem, you can't grow a deer herd with those low fawn numbers. It would appear that those buck numbers can't breed all the does or there is on heck of a predator problem.

 

[soutahhunter]

I agree, not enough bucks to breed the doe and not enough fawns per doe, yet we keep getting these numbers that we are around 15 bucks per 100 doe. How come us guys who are out in the field cannot come up with these great numbers of 15 bucks to 100 doe. Then it is hard to even find a 100 doe but come to find out there are doe hunts every winter.

 

[nebo12000]

Need to correct a classification number-- There were actually 105 does 95 fawns 17 bucks. The fawn number I stated was from a discussion about another area-- sorry for the misinformation.

 

[rperkins]

I would challenge that count.

 

[soutahhunter]

So Nebo that is 200 deer with 17 bucks which is an average of 8.5 per 100 and I saw 6 bucks per 100 in a good Southern Utah area. That is far below the 13 to 15 per 100 we keep seeing the DWR print out each year.