how to fix the deer herds.

T

timothymarks

Guest
I've been reading about how bad the deer herds are and I just realized we are in trouble. You see our number 1 fight against antis is managment. With all the talk about mismanagement and troubled deer herds I think the only solution is to have no general season hunts until the herds recover. I know everyone on here is more concerned with a stable deer herd than harvesting a animal. I also know that everyone here would not want to give the antis a legitimate fight. But I agree the division still has to have money to operate so everyone will pay their 45 bucks for a point next year.
 
The lack of response can only mean 3 things, either you agree with me, or you dont agree with me but cant come up with a logical argument or everyone is just more upset that they cant find a big buck every year.

If the latter is the issue lets get off the backs of everybody else (DH'rs, lions, elk hunters, cwmus, private land owners etc)
 
turn everything LE and focus on ratio. IF it means upping doe tags and cutting buck tags back to next to nothing then so be it.
 
>turn everything LE and focus on
>ratio. IF it means
>upping doe tags and cutting
>buck tags back to next
>to nothing then so be
>it.

I some what agree with the idea of LE, but whats up with raising doe tags. Why get rid of does?
Regarding the deer herds. I'm more worried about my kids being able to enjoy deer hunting like I have. I haven't killed a huge deer yet, but I have had some great experiences over the years. If we have to close units to let them rebuild, so be it. If we have to wait 3-5 years without drawing a tag, so what. We can fish, bird hunt, rabbit hunt.....elk hunt. Those of us that enjoy hunting will find something to fill the gap. I just want my kids to experience deer hunting. Its no fun taking them when they get bored because they have to work so hard to find some deer, let alone a buck. We will lose the next generation if we keep going the way we are.
 
Ya!

That's what we need in this state is more Doe Tags!

GEEZUS!


Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Amen STTM! Killing doe's is a hell of a problem!!!!!!! You can't increase a herd by whacking doe's. I have yet to see any ranchers kill off their females animals and keep the males thinking they can build a large herd. Pretty damn sad when a unit is still under population objective and 100 more damn doe's get whacked. I.E. Panguitch lake.
 
Kill them to lower stress on the bucks from trying to breed them all. This of course would be for a type of trophy management, but it and overall health of a herd go hand in hand. If referring to a healthy population (having a large amt of deer) then just don't shoot anything and reevaluate numbers in 5 years.
 
I believe his point was to increase the oppurtunity for amount to kill big bucks. I guess what he meant was if you have a unit that can only hold 100 deer, and you have a 15-85 doe ratio kill some does and add some bucks and make it a 40-60 buck to do ratio so that there is more oppurtunity for bucks. Hence the LE idea of his post.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-12 AT 07:01PM (MST)[p]If you close hunting down completely for 1, 2, 3, years, you've lost many hunter's interest, you've lost young hunters, and you've just found yourself with a huge fight with the anti's when you want to re-open the hunt. Remember how many wolves we were promised if only they could re-introduce just a certain number? Now we're way over that number and you all know the fight it took just to start managing again. It would be the same with deer. They will take the numbers that we all said we used to have in the "good ole days" and will fight to keep the hunts closed until the herds get back to that "good ole days" number again. We better be very careful what we ask for, because the anti's will take every opportunity to stop hunting.

Just a thought on killing some does. It's important to kill a few does as long as there is a decent fawn crop to replace them. (That's where predator control comes in) If we don't kill some of the older nonproductive does, they will just take up space a young productive doe could have, thus we end up with an old stagnant herd that cannot increase. That's the problem we have with the elk in wolf country. The calves are killed and the cows are getting too old to produce a new calf. That makes it tough to increase the herd. So the idea of not killing any does is not always the best solution to keep a herd healthy.
 
My point is make sure you know what your talking about before you stat screaming how terrible the herds are for the same reason you mentioned. The antis would love to shut us down and if herd managment is off as bad as they say and the deer are as bad off as everyone is saying then why are we hunting?
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-12
>AT 07:01?PM (MST)

>
>If you close hunting down completely
>for 1, 2, 3, years,
>you've lost many hunter's interest,
>you've lost young hunters, and
>you've just found yourself with
>a huge fight with the
>anti's when you want to
>re-open the hunt. Remember how
>many wolves we were promised
>if only they could re-introduce
>just a certain number? Now
>we're way over that number
>and you all know the
>fight it took just to
>start managing again. It would
>be the same with deer.
>They will take the numbers
>that we all said we
>used to have in the
>"good ole days" and will
>fight to keep the hunts
>closed until the herds get
>back to that "good ole
>days" number again. We better
>be very careful what we
>ask for, because the anti's
>will take every opportunity to
>stop hunting.
>
>Just a thought on killing some
>does. It's important to kill
>a few does as long
>as there is a decent
>fawn crop to replace them.
>(That's where predator control comes
>in) If we don't kill
>some of the older nonproductive
>does, they will just take
>up space a young productive
>doe could have, thus we
>end up with an old
>stagnant herd that cannot increase.
>That's the problem we have
>with the elk in wolf
>country. The calves are killed
>and the cows are getting
>too old to produce a
>new calf. That makes it
>tough to increase the herd.
>So the idea of not
>killing any does is not
>always the best solution to
>keep a herd healthy.


Well said. Thank you sir.
 
You're really worried about "the antis shutting us down"? The only threat they pose is deforestation from all the poster board they buy. One of our beloved/well-known members here has often said that SFW has taken away more tags from Utah hunters than all anti groups combined. The antis are the least of our worries! Political motives and $$ are a much bigger threat to our hunting than antis.

Closing units down is a terrible idea. Once a unit is closed it is not going to be opened again as a general unit. It will stay LE forever because of the $$ generated for private individuals by those tags.

I see no problem with the current buck:doe ratios. Increasing them only means more people unable to hunt. We already have 15+ bucks per 100 does on most units! If you can't find a buck with that kind of percentage, what makes you think a slight increase is going to help? Let's focus on increasing herd size, not silly ratios. Which would you rather have, 18 bucks and 100 does or 30 bucks and 200 does?
 
... Plus shoot the elk and goat herds down to near extinction & remove cattle grazing from BLM. It's a bit unreasonable, but would help fix the deer herd problem.
 
"Just a thought on killing some does. It's important to kill a few does as long as there is a decent fawn crop to replace them. (That's where predator control comes in) If we don't kill some of the older nonproductive does, they will just take up space a young productive doe could have, thus we end up with an old stagnant herd that cannot increase."

That is absolutely what happens in some areas where doe hunts are never held--you get a stagnant herd that leaves people scratching their heads. Not only does an old doe use resources directly that could have been used by a younger productive deer, the old doe will actually run off fawns and younger deer that try to forage near her - so she's hogging even more than she actually uses. The irony is that this indicates that there is a low number of large predators (mountain lions) which is how those does can get old in the first place. The problem with doe hunts is is how to target those old does. It's tough.
 
Im not suggesting anything im making an observation. If the deer herds are as bad as everyone is saying (I dont believe it is) then ethically we should not be hunting them.

My observation is the people complaining the most in most cases are the ones who are not harvesting nice bucks. They go out, cant find a nice buck shoot a forkie 10 feet off the road see a dead deer on the ground blame the lions. Then hear about a dedicated hunter who got a nice buck and blame their own failure on that dedicated hunter. Then get on here and complain that cwmus are destroying the deer herd. then complain at work that the elk have overcrowded the deer, then somone tells them about someone that they know that saw a lion and now that same person is back on the lion kick.

If you think the antis wont use all the screaming and crying about no deer to their advantage your a F idiot.
 
My father in law brought up a pretty good point today. He said that in the 90s there was sheep herders all over the place. He thinks that the coyotes ate alot more sheep then than they ate deer (he ran predator control for alot of sheepmen from the 90s-around 06). well the days of the sheepmen are coming to a end so the coyotes have switched to deer mainly fawns.
 
If I were an anti I would point to the poor and declining quality of Utahs deer herds, I would point to the poor percentage of mature bucks and the unnaturally low buck to doe ratios, and I would claim its all because of hunting.
 

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