We can fix our DEER herds ourselves.

D

dleonard3

Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-12 AT 12:05PM (MST)[p]I posted this as a reply to another post, but I don't think it will get seen much there.

Here's an idea that could work:
Everybody that is currently planning on hunting buck deer in Utah in 2012 should be sure to apply for a doe tag also.

Then, when the doe tag shows up in the mail, just cut it up and throw it in the trash. - You just saved one.

Also, when the buck season opens, go out and film/photograph every buck you see, but don't shoot any. I'm sure you won't find one big enough anyway. - There, you just saved at least one buck too.

Be sure to fill out any surveys stating that you harvested a doe and a buck. That way the DWR won't feel obligated to sell more tags to cover the ones that didn't harvest one.

I don't have any problem with youth hunters taking their first buck. Go ahead and enjoy the moment, but don't feel obligated to do it again the next year unless it's a trophy to you.

I won't mention anything about "MEAT" hunters either. Our herds (in their current state) can't handle the pressure of meat hunting. You people should be buying beef, pork, and chicken at the stores. Eat all you want, they'll make more.

When you're sitting at home being bored during the winter, don't hesitate to get out there and do some serious predator hunting. It's a blast, the kids love it, and it's good to thin out the coyotes when you can. Don't be afraid of those 200 lb coyotes either, just keep shooting until they stop moving, then one more for good measure.

If enough of us do this, the herd should have a chance to come back no matter what the "MANAGERS" decide to do.
 
He had some good points until he went negative calling others idiots in the last line in this paragraph: "I won't mention anything about "MEAT" hunters either. Our herds (in their current state) can't handle the pressure. You idiots should be buying beef, pork, and chicken at the stores."
 
True, but perhaps he has told us more about himself than he intended. In either case it's the same reason people get turned off to even the best and most meaningful on here. I dare say that 2Lumpy probably experiences this and he's the best at keeping his words to a null. NO OFFENSE intended to him at all, I just figured he wouldn't mind being the example. And if I'm wrong then Founder can delete me!
 
Sorry TOPGUN, I should have thought that one through a little bit. It's just my opinion, others may not feel the same way as I do about meat hunters. Please, by all means, explain the good points of meat hunting, and why we should all be killing our struggling wild game herds for food. The last I checked, there are plenty of cows, pigs, & chickens to eat. In fact, if we eat all of them, I'm sure they'll grow more for us.
 
Good post until you said to fill out the surveys stating that you harvested... Utah DNR counts the deer herds by harvest numbers. If you say that you killed a deer, they will count that toward the total count of deer... NOT a good idea.

CSO

It's all about the good times...

MonsterMuleysLogo.png
 
The DWR assumes we have WAY more deer than is actually out there, so by claiming to have harvested a deer when in fact I have not, the DWR won't feel obligated to issue another permit to cover the one that wasn't harvested. Technically dis-honest, but morally the right thing to do in this case. Again, my opinion.
 
I think he was referring to calling them names rather than just stating your opinion that we shouldn't be meat hunting right now. Even if you do feel that they are idiots you will gain more credibility in many eyes by letting them come to that conclusion on their own.

Better to keep your mouth closed and be accused of being a fool then to open it and remove all doubt kind of thing.

And I'm not saying you are a fool, just a good metaphor to paint the picture with.
 
It was on ok post until you decided to call other hunters "Idiots" Im not a meat hunter im a trophy hunter but I have friends and family that hunt for the meat. My uncle lives off elk and deer meat. Gives alot of it to those in his family that are struggling. Never buys beef and saves money doing it the way he does. He would spend alot more if he bought all his meat at a store. Is that wrong? Just because your a bad ass trophy hunter, what gives you the right to tell others how they should or shouldnt hunt and call them an idiot? In fact, it almost makes me want to go shoot a doe, post a picture of it on this thread and tell you to stick it up your ass!
 
one_dryboot, you've just illustrated one of the biggest problems we (as hunters) have right now. It's the inability to do something for the good of the herd by giving up a little of our own wants and desires.

If you want to only eat the meat you've personally killed, that's fine. But I thought we were trying to save the population of Mule Deer. Eating them doesn't save them. I think it would be good to redirect our eating of meat to the animals I know can sustain our demand.
 
Point taken. I've edited my post to remove the words that some might find offensive. I'll try harder.
 
Nope, the DWR will count it as a dead deer therefore increasing their population numbers. They do their figures off of bucks harvested. For every buck harvested, there are x amount of deer (Bucks and Does) in the field... So if you say that there is one more harvested then according to their formula, that means there are more deer in the unit and that screws up counts and makes it seem like there are more deer than there really are. You would do better to lie and say that you didn't shoot one even if you did, that way the total count would be lower.
The biggest problem is that they don't do real counts... And that is out of the horses mouth... Until they have a better way of counting, there won't be a good way to know how many deer we really have.

CSO

It's all about the good times...

MonsterMuleysLogo.png
 
Ya I agree with you on your last post. but your not going to get any of the "meat hunters" on your side by calling them names.
Yes one of the biggest problems is the inability to do something for the good of the herd by giving up a little of our own wants and desires. Just look at all the buck hunters that are not willing to sacrifice. they dont want tags cut, they dont want to miss a hunting season, they dont care if we kill all the bucks, they just want to hunt. well if the herd cant sustain the hunters or dead deer why do we still give out tags? Im willing to sit out a few years if it will help. hell I havent killed a deer in 6 years in utah but ive had a tag every year. I could kill every year but I choose not to because I dont need to kill just to kill.
One things for damn sure. were not going to save the population of mule deer if we cant work together, point fingers, call names and have the my way is better then your way attitude and your way sucks.
 
coolspringoutfitters, WOW! If that is the way they're counting our deer, they must be as dumb as a bag of hammers. How can you count live deer by counting dead deer? That doesn't make any sense.

If this really is the case, I guess we could go ahead and claim a doe kill in the survey so they think they've done something to help with the browse or crop damage, but don't claim a buck kill in the survey so they won't get their over-all population numbers wrong..............

They really need to find a better way to count. If it keeps getting worse, they could use their fingers and toes.
 
That is the way they count, they call it classifying and it is a long way from the actual number of deer. We are in a serious situation that all sportmen are willing to admit, but I am not sure about Anis and top crew. I was at a RAC meeting were he stated the deer are out their you just have to get out and find them. Funny the sportsmen can't find them, maybe Anis needs to take us all out on a field trip.
 
Wow! NO real buck, doe, fawn counts and no harvest return data, they really are clueless aren't they? How can you possibly manage a deer herd like that?? Psychic powers?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-12 AT 06:57PM (MST)[p]>Wow! NO real buck, doe, fawn
>counts and no harvest return
>data, they really are clueless
>aren't they? How can you
>possibly manage a deer herd
>like that?? Psychic powers?

None of that is true. DWR does NOT use a harvest based model to estimate population numbers. DWR uses fawn production data from counts, survival estimates from radio collar data, and harvest info. from harvest survey returns to model deer populations and come up with population estimates. DWR does not attempt to census or count ALL deer on a unit. However, DWR does do deer classification counts on every one of the new 30 hunt units. This is comprised of actual on the ground counts of thousands of bucks, does, and fawns every year. Buck permit number recommendations are based on post season buck to doe ratios recorded in these classification counts.

Dax

There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.
 
Dax, do all the biologists use the same methods and models? Are there a couple of different biologists and models per area?
 
Dax:

Did you say thousands of Bucks. want to go with whoever has found thousands of bucks on any of the 30 units or even all put together. They are just not out their, listen to all the people who each go to their favorite spot. No bucks, and no deer equal no population.
 
Doctor: sir, I'm sorry to inform you that you have testicular cancer.

Hunter #1: No I don't.

Doctor: Our pathologist said all of your tests came back as positive.

Hunter #1: He's wrong.

Doctor: The MRI showed a tumor the size of a piece of Hubba bubba.

Hunter #1: Well my friend Bubba checked and he said it ain't no piece of gum.

Doctor #1: it's not gum, it's a cancerous tumor.

Hunter #1: Bubba told me I need "tumor" opinions.

Doctor #1: It says here on your medical sheet you've been diagnosed by 7 other doctors in the past 18 months.

Hunter #1: Yeah, they was all stupid liars too. I only trust Bubba. He'd do anything fer me. He once sucked rattler juice out my backside back when we was kids.

Doctor: It's stage 4, you have 6 months to live.

Hunter #1: No way that's true. Says right here on the Hunters Trailhead that I'm gonna draw a Wasatch elk tag in 6 years. Now who's lyin' mister bigshot doctor?

Doctor: Good luck with that.

Hunter #2: (whisper) What'd you go and tell him about me sucking out that rattler juice fer??




http://unitedwildlifecooperative.org
 
+1. That's the way we roll here on MM.

I read it in an internet forum, it's got to be true. Bubba says so. LOL

Zeke
 

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