logical way to harvest bucks

timothymarks · Jan 11, 2012

I hunted Texas last November, they had a interesting way of managment. I understand white tail are different than mule deer but it seems like after a year or two this would pay off. Texans can kill any buck that has a spike on one side. But to kill a branched antlered buck it has to have a inside spread of 13 Inches which is typically ear to ear. We could enact the same kind if rule and customize it to mule deer. Just some FYI, I saw bucks everyday. I took a shooter and a spike.

This alone would raise buck to doe ratios and within a few years more trophy bucks would be taken. It could even be tes t driven on a unit first.

tx_packmule · Jan 11, 2012

The great thing about TX is you can disregard the state recommendations and go with other programs where you develop your own mangement plan. But the 13" or spike rule allows for 2 bucks to be taken that could very easily be a yearling and a 2yo, so instead of cutting into 1 age class of bucks you give folks the opportunity to cut into 2.

TOPGUN · Jan 11, 2012

Those antler point restrictions are in a very limited number of Texas counties and it's almost impossible to compare whitetail management to what is needed for mule deer. Whitetails can live in a backyard and flourish, which sure isn't the case of a mulie. There is also a lot of controversy with some saying to shoot every spike and others saying to let them grow to maturity and they may have a good rack. The oroblem with that is if a buck has reached maturity and still has spikes or a nonconforming rack. Then you are just feeding an animal that should be culled by someone who knows what they're doing as far as aging a deer to decide whether it should be taken out of the herd or not.

jainoon · Jan 11, 2012

I live in one of those spike or 13 counties and it has improved the herd as we are seeing better bucks, but it has also created many criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens.
When they walk up to that nice 8 or 10 point only to realize he is 12 3/4 inside how many do you think turn thierselves in? How many leave a dead deer in the field to avoid the consequences? Just some thoughts to ponder with this management.
Is it promoting mature bucks with narrow spreads? A mature with a narrow spread could be the only buck left breeding?

travishunter3006 · Jan 11, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-12 AT 08:15PM (MST)[p]I tried the "antler point restriction" thing on this web site but every one will say:

"They tried it awhile ago and it didn't work"

"When they did that I found hundreds of dead 2-points and spikes"

"People would shoot 2 or 3 bucks a season until hey finally sho a legal buck"

.......................

I don't think it was in place long enough for it to work.

I also think that the nay sayers are really admitting that they and those they hunt/associate with don't have enough self control to comply with the restriction.

I like shooting deer just as much as the next guy but If the F&G says to shoot 3 poins or better then by golly I'll be shooting 3 points and no more forkies.

Calfornia has a no spike law... look what happened to our singing buddy Ted Nugent.... I would support a no spike law.

ADD:

How many leave then bucks they shot that weren't legal??

Many more follow the law than don't...

It was a big bodied 2 point. (this is my signature)

El_Matador · Jan 14, 2012

I am a big fan of point restrictions, unfortunately most of our lawmakers and biologists are not. I hunted the Henrys a fair amount during the 90s and it was some great hunting under the 3 point or better. The biggest argument against it is always that people shoot 2 points and leave them to rot, not bothering to count points before they shoot. Its a valid argument, though I never saw that happen. What I cannot understand is this: If shooting first and counting later is such a huge problem, why does most of Utah have point restrictions on elk hunting? Because elk are larger and their points are easier to see? Maybe its harder to cover an elk with brush to hide what you just poached? It just seems hard to swallow that it would be an insurmountable problem with deer but not even worth mentioning for elk. I would love to see some point restrictions brought back in a few units, and maybe with the new micromanagement its a possibility.

wileywapati · Jan 14, 2012

So work with me here for a quick second... In one post we "Need Mature Bucks Doing The Breeding" and in this thread this is the age group we want to harvest???

Maybe it's not that hunters harvest illegal animals, maybe it's that everywhere this has been tried on mule deer it has done squat.

2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE

Tree · Jan 14, 2012

>I am a big fan of
>point restrictions, unfortunately most of
>our lawmakers and biologists are
>not. I hunted the
>Henrys a fair amount during
>the 90s and it was
>some great hunting under the
>3 point or better.
>The biggest argument against it
>is always that people shoot
>2 points and leave them
>to rot, not bothering to
>count points before they shoot.
> Its a valid argument,
>though I never saw that
>happen. What I cannot
>understand is this: If
>shooting first and counting later
>is such a huge problem,
>why does most of Utah
>have point restrictions on elk
>hunting? Because elk are
>larger and their points are
>easier to see? Maybe
>its harder to cover an
>elk with brush to hide
>what you just poached?
>It just seems hard to
>swallow that it would be
>an insurmountable problem with deer
>but not even worth mentioning
>for elk. I would
>love to see some point
>restrictions brought back in a
>few units, and maybe with
>the new micromanagement its a
>possibility.

The bigger issue is that it shifts all of the pressure to the older age classes. Yearling bucks are the most abundant and therefor can withstand the larger percentage of harvest without heavily impacting their specific age class.

http://unitedwildlifecooperative.org

featherflipper · Jan 19, 2012

The older age class is a whole diffrent animal than a yearling buck. Most yearlings are shot from or near a road. As a two year old, bucks bachelor up with other older bucks or live alot farther from the road. They are not with a group of does and fawns close to the raod. They are much smarter as two year olds, give them a sporting chance!

I love the idea of three point or better. I would put a twist on the idea and say youth hunters can shoot any buck. The kids would love this and enjoy hunt alot more with a chance at a buck. After your 18th b-day no more yearlings for you. If you can't tell the difference between a "spike-two point" from a three point or better buck you should not be hunting. That scares me that guys hunt with rifles and can't tell the difference between the too. These people are a danger to everone in the woods. Last year elk hunting I had two older guys 60+ aim there rifle at me because the don't carry bino's. And they needed there rifle scope to see what I was!!! These two guys have no business hunting that way.