For Argument Sake

cantkillathing

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IN utah what percent of the Lion population is killed each year. I would think that it would be about 10% each year.

Right now there is a bout 235 killed lions in the state and about 78 of them are female lions. So 1/3 female and 2/3 male.
 
It would be a guessing game. In other words, probably just as inaccurate as you guys think your DWR does on deer numbers!
 
it shouldn't be to hard to have a better educated guess, gathering the tooth data, the age of each lion. if the average age is 4 to 5 years old then that would mean you are probably killing 20 to 25% of the lions.
If the average age is 6 to 7 years old then you are probably only killing10 to 15%
 
That's exactly why I said what I did. If they don't have that and various additional data to figure out what percentage they are killing each year, it's still an educated guess at best. If they are taking a low percentage of the total population that you guys think you have out there, they need to ramp it up and take a lot more.
 
TM---What would your take be on total population numbers if you based it on that age and the number of cats being taken yearly? Are they taking enough every year to keep the numbers from increasing and being the detrimental effect on ungulates that residents fear is happening?
 
That, or they are just taking a larger % of younger animals because they aren't as smart yet.

If there are 10 animals out there and you kill 2 of them, do you think you are going to kill the older ones or the younger ones?
 
TG I just did a research paper on this. I'm not going to claim it is perfect, and I did not address what I believe the population to be. To answer your question honestly don't know. I only hunt a small portion of northern Utah. But that being said my father in law used to cut several fresh lion tracks a day in one particular canyon. At one time he cut 7 different lion tracks. This was a decade ago. The harvest data shows that more tags are being issued less lions are being treed, and the average age harvested is on a decline. To me that says we are killing them off rather than maintaining a managable level. Now that being said I do not want to cut 7 lion tracks in that canyon. A decade ago my father in law knew the lions where overpopulated in that area and the deer herds were locally suffering. Now lions have been killed back all over the state according to harvest data. So efforts should be put where it needs to be. I talk a little about my opinion on what is causing decline in deer herds. I'll post it up later, I can't wait for that conversation....
 
dont worry never c, thier will all aways be a lion or two, the gov hired the best of the best' trappers and they couldnt kill them all...
 
Maybe it chasing and treeing them,then letting them loose that is causing smarter lions. So you're not killing the older class ones now you are just get the younger ones. Just a thought.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
>Maybe it chasing and treeing them,then
>letting them loose that is
>causing smarter lions. So you're
>not killing the older class
>ones now you are just
>get the younger ones. Just
>a thought.
>
>"I have found if you go
>the extra mile it's Never
>crowded".
>>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>>the MM green signature club.[font/]


Your statement may not be far from the truth. Predators are keenly intelligent and have the ability to learn from mistakes.
 
I'd like to see the DWR manage cougar based on available capacity and hunter harvest as priority. (deer) Not perceived habitat acreage.

If unit X has Y amount of deer.

And B cougar kill C deer per yr.

And traditionally D hunters harvest E deer pr yr in unit X.

You should not have more than F cougar.

And I can say this is not the case with Monroe and its 40 estimated cats. 40 is far far to many for a deer herd less than 5000 strong. And a traditional hunter harvest around 800 bucks and 200 doe.


Just for arguments sake.

I'd guess the 4500 doe on Monroe can produce about 4000 fawn per yr in a good yr. If 75% survive you could have a potential herd increase of 3000 deer per yr. 2000 go to cougar 1000 to hunters. Coyote? Roadkill? Its no wonder the herd is in constant decline since the advent of LE cougar hunting. And this is if we don't have a winter kill. Option 2 will do good for the unit. But its a shame hunters are reduced and cougar slide by unscathed.

When will the DWR realize deer hunters buy them new trucks and pay their salaries not cougar or houndsmen?
 
Why is cougar pursuit not considered wildlife harassment?

The DWR is concerned with antler hunters hiking the hills. But running a pack of baying dogs for miles and miles through winter range is OK?
 
>Why is cougar pursuit not considered
>wildlife harassment?
>
>The DWR is concerned with antler
>hunters hiking the hills. But
>running a pack of baying
>dogs for miles and miles
>through winter range is OK?
>

You've OBVIOUSLY never been lion hunting...they don't run them for miles and miles!! They tree up within a mile in most cases and lions and deer are completely different creatures, both react to winter conditions differently...it's a lot more tough on the deer then it is a lion!!

~Z~

PS...I recently changed my signature because I want you to all know I think you're a
7518dickweed.jpg
 
Nope I never been cougar hunting. I cant get a houndsman to take me out for a female.

And I could care less about how hard pursuit was on cougar.

I can tell your nobodies fool. Don't worry maybe someone will adopt you.
 
Utah has been trying to manage they're deer herd by hammering on lions for going on 16 years now. Look where it has got us... There is way less lions right now than there was then and way less deer. The dwr has used them as an excuse for they're addiction to tag cash.. And beyond popular belief lions are not behind every tree...deer herds manage lion population not the other way around. If u have a lot of deer u will have a lot of lions. Not very many deer not very many lions. You can't hunt deer relentlessly 3 months out of the year. Run em over by the thousands on the road systems give way too many tags have ten years of drought and stack predators on top of that and expect to have many deer.
 

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