Make region a G limited quota!

R

Rambo

Guest
Who else believes G is over hunted? In my opion with the right management (reducing the number of hunters) region G could recover. I would rather have a quality hunt every few years. A quality hunt to me is good deer numbers. I also believe in 7-10 years G would start producing slammer bucks. What do you think?
 
Rambo, I have hunted Region G many times. I agree that it is overhunted but only from the roads. I thought Utah was bad for road hunting. Any time I have hunted G I have parked on busy dirt road and not run into another hunter all day. When I first started hunting G many years ago, I looked at the permit numbers and thought that they gave out way too many permits. But over the years I have come to the conclusion that hunters in general are some of the laziest people there are when it comes to getting out and pounding dirt. I'm not talking about getting out of the truck and walking up a hill side. I'm talking about really pounding dirt. Leaving the truck 2 1/2 hours before sun up to get to a glassing point. Give it a shot and get back in there a bit. I know of 3 places I am thinking of right now that I would bet a paycheck on not seeing another hunter all day. It's doable.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
Region G is limited quota. It's one of the only areas in the country that consistently produces big deer every year. Always has and always will. Over hunted, definitely. But it dosnt need 7-10 ten years to start producing big deer. It already does.
 
Awholelottabull - Im sure there are places where you won't find anyone, but that doesn't mean much. Most of the Wyoming range and nearly all the Salt river range is pounded to death, and if you have ever been there you would know that its not the road hunters that are doing the pounding.
That country has been on a downhill slide for twenty years, the record books will bear that fact out, the only reason there are still a few book bucks taken every year is because of the increasingly intense pressure and all the modern high tec weapons and gear.
The fact is the dirt is pretty well pounded, the deer are doing poorly and big mature bucks are few and far between, I think if you listened to a few of the long time residents from this country you may come away with a different perspective on the situation.
 
"Im sure there are places where you won't find anyone, but that doesn't mean much" - piper.

Means a hell of a lot to me. Do you think the big bucks hang out where all the people are? LOL Now that's some funny stuff right there. If you know G as well as you say you do then you would be very surprised at where I don't see other hunters. It doesn't get "pounded" every year. And you must be driving blind if you don't think the road hunters up there are thick! Ever drive up the dirt road next to the Hams Fork during hunting season? I feel like I'm in the Rose Parade. But you go ahead and think what you want. You doom and gloom guys are exactly what I need to get to hunt that country more than every 2 years.

I will grant you this, it's not what it was 15-20 years ago but it still carries some absolutely amazing bucks on it and you have a serious poaching problem in that area. Oh yah, probably because of all the road hunting.:)


It's always an adventure!!!
 
Non-residents already have to wait a couple years to draw that tag. If they hack away at tags anymore, it'll be a 7-10 year wait for a tag. That just wouldn't be worth it to hear stories about a few more 200-inch bucks that come out of there.

If it were up to me, I'd probably offer archery, muzzleloader, and rifle tags seperate to try and reduce success rates. Trimming a little time off the hunts could help some too. BUT, I say it's a good hunt and leave it be for the most part. Many people see other areas in the world producing huge deer and want the same everywhere. It just doesn't need to be that way. Hunting 180-190 bucks every other year is far more fun than hunting 200-inch bucks every 10-15 years.

I will admit, huge bucks are few and far between up there, but there are enough around if a person wants to invest the effort. I just hate to see more places go the way of the Henry Mtns. here in Utah. They cut the tags so much simply to grow extra big deer so that a handful of people each year get to kill a giant.

I've killed big deer, and while they're cool, some of the bucks I'm most proud of are not the biggest.

That's my blurb. I love hunting that country, I love the steep, rugged crap. I love the fact that investing the time and effort into the hunt can pay off, that it's not just about having the great tag.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-19-12 AT 11:33PM (MST)[p]G is a general tag for Wyoming residents. I will agree that G still produces some great bucks but the population is way down from what it was in the 90's. I backpacked 10 miles last year to the ridge I hunted on. I killed my buck at first light on the second morning of my hunt, but i did have a lot of competition, there were hunters on every ridge. I personally want to stir the pot and say Wyoming needs to cut non resident tags, that would elimimate a lot of competition because most non residents I meet in the hills are serious hunters.
;)
 
The reason I love Wyoming is because I can hunt every year. I moved to Wyoming from Utah. When I left I couldn't even buy an archery deer tag over the counter anymore. I hope I never see Wyoming get to that point. Best of luck to everyone this upcoming hunting season. Jake Swensen
 
As I've said before, living here, I have absolutely no complaints about the deer hunting. There may not be a lot of B&C bucks relative to days of yore either, but I'm not sure 190 or 200 inch bucks are are a worthy enough goal to cut opportunity. If you want a 160-170" buck and hunt hard and smart, you can get one. Many areas do seem to get pounded hard, yet there are gaps between those areas and pockets here and there where you can go and not run into other hunters. If you want a 200" buck, there a few of them as well, but most of them will not be found off a ridge with a spotting scope or binos. I believe that if I muster the dedication and put the time and effort into it, I will kill a 200"+ buck. Its a matter of time and I don't have the illusion that I am even half the deer hunter most of you are.

I was talking with a friend the other day. He said while guiding some late elk hunters last winter, they sat and observed a couple of hours one afternoon. He said that they saw at least 30 bucks with a 30" plus spread. Some of them had unbelievable mass and character. While migratory bucks, where he was at indicates that they were all region G bucks. That was a couple of hours, one afternoon's observation.

As stated in other threads, deer adapt. Older, smarter deer adapt better. Hunters who want those deer will need to adapt as well if they want to kill them. The numbers are down, and in some sections of G it is no doubt worse than in others, but I am dumbfounded when I hear how bad the hunting is in G. By all means, go where it is better and hunt. As I stated in another thread positing the question, where would I hunt mule deer if I could pick anywhere? Right here at home. As Brian alluded, it is some of the most nasty, rugged, beautiful country in the world. I think all the naysayers (resident and non resident alike) should look to Nevada, Arizona, Colorado...
 
I could see having the same opening day on each of the G units.

Maybe having the elk hunt start the week before the G deer opening.....or cow only hunts the week before.

Maybe have just one of the G units go to LQ and see if it really makes that much bigger bucks.

I am not much of a 'screw the next guy to make mine better' kinda guy.


But then again in 7-10 years we will have 2-3 real mean winters and so much for a plan as mother nature will winter kill many of our management goals.

Robb
 
Moving region g to LQ all depends on what you are looking for. If you want the average B&C score to increase then this might do it. But i dont think that is what most want. If you want to increase the deer population then I don't think making it LQ will do it. Last years winter kill showed that. If I am wrong and the primary reason for population decrease is over harvest of bucks then i would whoel-heartedly support making it LQ or shutting it down for a year or two. i just don't think that will do it.

My personal experience is that region G is a very enjoyable hunt. Opening couple of days is a zoo. Everywhere, even miles from roads. After that it thins out. I was only able to hunt one day last year. i hunted just a few days before the season ended in a very popular area. I did not see any other hunters all day. Not one in the field and no other trucks at the trailhead when I left in the morning or when I returned at night. i saw 15 bucks that morning alone. Several of them were 20-25" 4 points. BTW, my buddy from Utah was with me and he could not see why I wasn't blazing away at every 4 point I saw.
 
I think the population is more important than the size of the bucks. If less tags are handed out resident or nonresident, then less deer will be harvested, helping out the population. I'm not out to screw the next guy but I would like to help deer numbers recover.
 
I think moving all of the openers to the same day in Wyoming would be fantastic. Adding a muzzy season could be cool too - but for the most part I think it should be left as is. The reason I see to cut tags is to help the herd rebound after a bad winter.

WYmoose
 
I find the 30 or more 30" or bigger bucks from one glassing point absolutely ludicrous.There weren't that many 30" bucks in the entire region G last season.I hit those winter ranges with my video camera EVERY WINTER.I have been doing that for close to 20 years now.This winter,I did not see one 30" buck on the winter range.Not one.Maybe that guy needs to get a new measuring tape!The fact is,the Wyoming Range herd is in dire straights.I'm reading lots of opinions from people who never knew this herd when it was great.Piper knows.Something needs to be done here.Whether the solution is LQ,pick a region,or pick a unit;split seasons...I'm not going to proclaim I know the answer to that.Last winter was a brutal one in G...the worst since '83-'84.LQ will not grow the herd.It will help with age class of bucks;that's it.There's lots of solutions being debated right now in Wy.Too many people after too few bucks.It's an overcrowding issue.I'm all for limiting resident hunters.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-12 AT 01:53PM (MST)[p]Even before last winters die off there was getting to be to much pressure put on this herd.

One of the biggest changes to the buck numbers and quality is the ability for hunters to shoot from one mountain range to the other... 1000 yard shooting might be cool to some but it is NOT good or cool for this herd. If we limited the ability of hunters to shoot to 350 yards or less. We would see some real improvements in quality and quantity over night. Build hunting skills not technology dependance! That is a resident and nonresident issue combined. You might be shocked how many people are taking extremely long unethical shots in western Wyoming! Shooting over other hunters to make those shots too! IMO it is one of our biggest challenges.

Maybe instead of limiting tags let go bow or muzzleloader only. Put a little hunt back in the hunter

Save the 1000 shooting for wolves and terrorists......
 
Here's make take on Region G. Yes, some areas are overhunted, which includes most the areas near trailheads and within a mile or two of open roads. But there are pockets that dont get much pressure, plus some of the country is just too rugged for the average hunter which helps eliminate those folks for that kind of country.

I see no reason why unit 135 starts Oct 1st. ??? Why not align that unit with the others so hunters dont have the opportunity to hunt multiple openers in Region G. Its obvious that the hunting generally gets tougher after the opening day or two and the deer hunker down and flee to the timber or rough country. Why should someone have the ability to hunt the opener in 144/145 on Sept 15th, and then hunt another opener in 135 on October 1st?

I also wouldnt mind see them implement an archery only tag, and muzzleloader only tag, and make people (including residents) choose which season they want to hunt. Harvest success is gnerally much lower for archery and muzzleloader equipment and more tags could be allocated to these therefore still allowing significant opportunity for folks.
 
>Like it or not Wyoming will
>end up limiting resident hunters.


Doubtful, most areas in the eastern half of the state have too much deeded ground to warrant LQ. Also if you take the areas from the Yellowstone border and head east all the way across the Big Horns, there doesn't seem to be a lot of talk with folks wanting everything LQ. Basically all the pizzing and moaning for LQ is going on along the western and south/southwestern borders and the areas in between. If the G&F does go limited quota in some areas, I suspect they'll still be generous with resident tag numbers. The benefit there is, it will eliminate a lot of non resident pressure as they tend to give out way too many non rezi tags in areas where resident tags are general license.
 
I would allow some fallibility and room for error, Nontypical, but the fellow has been guiding and judging deer for a few years. There are 30" deer in G. How many, I don't know, but I know a couple were taken in the past year. I don't think there is anyone who is arguing that our deer herds--all over the west--are declined. I don't pretend to know the answers, though I think brutal winters and poor winter habitat are very key. Predation is no doubt a factor too. What I--and apparently some others--am saying is that I don't see this herd on the brink of extinction. Seeing bucks, seeing does, seeing decent buck to doe ratios. It may, and probably isn't, necessarily the same throughout G.

I agree that a common opening day throughout the region would make sense. I don't imagine LQ will increase the overall health of the herd. I expect a decrease in mortality during the winter would make the biggest difference. Based on what I see in the winter, I expect lion predation may have some real significance. The number of fawns of the year I'm seeing in the fall indicate that more are surviving to that point than I would have expected. All observations from my corner of the world only.
 
G&F has stated that the WY Range Herd is down 70% from the 2010-2011 winter....talk to a warden or biologist. That was what I was told during my hunt by a warden. My personal observations won't dispute his statement. Might not be headed for extinction, however the current status of that herd is very concerning. I saw very few fawns this past year & zero twin fawns. I don't propose to have all the answers either. A common opening day would be a good conservative start. At least this winter gave them a break. Hope they figure it out....amazing country & amazing genetics.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-12 AT 10:09AM (MST)[p] wow, more than thirty 30inch or better bucks, thats laughable to tell you the truth. I live a short drive from the Wyoming range, and its nice all summer, no people, pretty country for hiking, but the crowded hunting season is not so enjoyable.
Maybe Im spoiled but the deer hunting is not really that great and if you just want any buck why not go somewhere else? its such nice scenery and with great genetics, truly sad to see what has happened to that country over the last twenty years.
I guess hunting in Nevada and Colorado has taught me that there is a whole lot of room between The Henry Mnt and Az strip type management and OTC res tags with tons of nonresident tags available, too bad others can't understand that but I guess thats the polarized world we live in.
Oh well,the deer hunting is still better that most all of Utah these days, and thats really all that matters, isnt it?
 
Unifying the openers was the main theme spoken of by hunters at the Wyoming Range deer meetings that I attended over the past couple of years.Everyone broke down into seperate groups of 5-6 people to a group to discuss what they thought would be the proper steps to take.Unifying the opener was probably the one thing that was suggested the most.Still don't know why G&F didn't do anything.Having the same closing dates is a good idea in the same vein as well.When one season closes,it drives all the unsuccessful hunters to the areas that remain open.So you still end up with undue pressure on the resource as well as hunter congestion.I also like the choose your weapon option.Maybe try split seasons,too.You have to choose early or late season when you buy your license,and can hunt ONLY that season.So many options,and it wouldn't be that hard to try some of these other fixes before going LQ.It's hard for G&F to break old habits,I guess.mmwb-One thing I did notice this winter was buck/doe ratios and doe/fawn ratios looked decent;and the deer looked to be in excellent physical condition.There just weren't any older age class bucks to speak of.Last winter just killed them off.A couple of mild winters could see some improvement in numbers;and we should see some better age diversification if that occurs.There is an excellent article by Mike Duplan in the latest Western Hunter mag that everyone should read in regards to limiting hunters and the effect it could have.
 
Some real good Food for Thought---thanks....as I do enjoy learning from others presentations.

One item that should be addressed is the multi weapon options.

Bow, Muzzy--?? and Rilfe---- spread them out idea.

Bow--less success % but higher wounded-- not recovered and more bucks hunted and arrowed??

Muzzy--these guys shoot 200-300 yards down here in Utardville with worthless freaking 1X power scopes!! (easy wolfhunter! ha)
so less success % but more wounded not recovered and more bucks hunted and shot at?

If ya look at a calendar, what and how would be the dates? for multi weapon options?


So the later ya make the Rifle dates---the more vulnerable the bucks would be for early Rut? or would it be the same opening dates for rifle buck (G & H buck units) as the overlap elk unit opening for rifle elk? (talk about a freaking Zoo of hunters!)

My thoughts-----the deer would get chased and shot at way to much to stretch out the multiple weapon seasons.....not against it---just thinking while I type....

1 other item----not challenging any one here----but pull up some region G & H Outfitter sites----lot's and lot's of 'uge bucks being harvested out of these OTC/ressy---Draw non-ressy G/H units.

Hope your wknd is going great All,

Robb
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-12 AT 07:00PM (MST)[p]Your just wasting your time talking about primitive weapon seasons in Wyoming, its not even on the radar, and its not an easy state to promote change in. The deer migrate early in these Wyoming areas so longer later seasons will mean overharvesting, and as someone mentioned before,in the early highcountry seasons the deer are very vulnerable to the new hightec weapons, its just the way that open country is.

The only way to have better hunting is cut human pressure and that means going limited quota like Colorado did more than a decade ago, its a tough thought for some but thats life in the modern world. A combination of more people, more technology, and less deer, not really hard to understand why.
 
What killed the deer herd? Was it buck hunters? Was it doe hunters? No. It was Mother Nature and her winter woes. You guys can cut all the hunters you want out of the equation and it will make no difference if Mother Nature decides to bless the area with an ice sheet and -20 degree weather.

That said, hunter numbers should go up and down depending on the buck numbers available to harvest. Just don't assume that saving 500 muley bucks through tag cuts will do anything to help the overall deer herd. I personally enjoy the G area and have had many great hunts there since the 90s. I have watched the deer numbers go up and down. WY closes many trails and roads on Oct 15 for the elk hunt. I'd wager if they did the same for deer on the 15th of Sept you'd see more bucks live.

And brushing off the 1,000+ yard shooters as a non-factor in that high country would be folly if you are looking to protect large antlered bucks.
 
30 bucks at least 30" in one afternoon.....I'm calling BS !!
No way, not happening anywhere, especially region G. Get real


Next time your trying to be slick....Try
being slicker than a 6 year old.
 
I vote for:

1. pick a region for residents,
2. uniform opening and closing dates,
3. non-resident quotas go up and down with available bucks, and
4. adjust the season length based on winter mortality.

A shorter season and G&F getting the word out to residents about winter mortality could shift a significant number of residents to another region...my 2 cents are worth probably less than that though.
 
nripepi---I think those are all very good ideas and I would qualify the first one with maximum numbers allowed just like us NRs can't exceed in each region.
 
>my 2 cents are worth probably less than
>that though.

I'd agree with that 100%. Suggesting that residents should have to pick a region is complete BS in my opinion...
 
The Game and Fish has their backs up against the wall. They have cut the NR tags below normal limited quota percentages based off of how many residents hunt G. They have cut the seasons down so much if they cut more the whole experience is wrecked (not to mention it will not help save bucks). Their budget can not take less NR tags. I also would argue we have far less bucks then Game and fish actually post in their counts. I think they already admitted this year their counting method is flawed... The public is losing confidence in the Game and Fish doing their job RIGHT!!

WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT LIMITING RESIDENT HUNTERS TOO... OR GET RID OF THE SUPER SNIPPER 1000 YARD STUFF!
 
It might only be 2 cents worth of BS, but I surely don't think it is complete BS. Look at Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico as examples of where residents have to pick a unit and in many cases are not even guaranteed a tag for a buck. I think the goal (well the goal of some, definitely not all and maybe not even the majority) was to curb overcrowding in G some and I thought this was the way to do it without disallowing anyone who wanted to hunt the region from hunting the region.

I guess the question is how many residents that hunt G in mid September for the opener hunt other general units? If they had to choose btwn the two, how many would not choose G? It might not make much of a difference, then again, it might subtract out a hundred hunters. Maybe you could make it so if you choose G or H, you can't choose another unit. You could hunt all of the other regions as much as you can.

Change is not easy and I agree that it should not be taken lightly. Every time I think about going back to hunting G, I just think about all of those other hunters you run into in the backcountry after packing 60 lbs on your back for five miles...and I wonder if it is worth it, maybe I should just hunt somewhere else as I have been doing for a few years. I don't need a 200 incher to be happy and I surely don't want to shoot one in a pen on a hunt where they are tame...I would just rather not have that much company magically show up on opening day while I have been sitting on a couple of 170 inch bucks...maybe I should hunt it later as has been suggested, there is just something about that Sept. 15th opener that gets the blood flowing. I guess there is no easy answer.
 
I thought your ideas were all good ones.While some are okay with taking 160 class bucks,many are not.The knowledge that there are a few 200+ inch bucks running around is what will keep many hunters going back to the same unit year after year.The pervading attitude from many hunters in Wyoming is just what TripleBB expressed.They don't want any limitations put on their already too liberal hunting seasons.Let's see,I'll hunt G or H on Sept 15,go down to 135 on Oct 1,head up to South Pass country for the Oct 15 opener,then hunt whitetails near Sundance in Nov.Oh yeah,I almost forgot archery season,which begins Sept 1!We can hunt for 3 months on a general tag here.Can't there be some sacrifice for the betterment of hunt quality?In answer to your question about how many guys hunt the different openers,I would say this:Virtually ALL of the unsuccessful hunters that hunt the Sept 15 openers will hunt another unit's opener.With all the technology we have today,it's no wonder our deer hunting and buck age class is trending downward.Throw in a couple bad winters,and it doesn't take a scientist to figure it out.Pick a region for residents would be a step in the right direction.I will be hunting Nevada and Colorado for some quality deer hunting this season.Sure would be nice if I could say the same about Wyoming.It's definitely about overcrowding and hunt quality with me and many others.Picking your region would unquestionably make a big difference in hunt quality,and after only 2 short years would make a huge difference in buck quality as well.I've said it before-Wyoming hunters are the most spoiled in the west.We get our cake and eat it too.Those times have changed.We have too many people after the same dwindling resource.It's time for change.
 

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