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Rambo
Guest
I believe these are the same deer, look at the left ear. So is age the biggest factor that attributes to mass and extras points? If not what is?
lundellhunting7
Active Member
- Messages
- 605
I would say they arnt the same buck
I don't know if those are the same deer, but there is plenty of evidence that both mass and extras are more likely to appear as a buck gets older. It doesn't mean that a younger buck can't have those features or that older bucks necessarily will, but the probability goes up with age.
swbuckmaster
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,004
that is the same buck
You don't kill bucks like that without age even if they have good genetics.
who farted?
You don't kill bucks like that without age even if they have good genetics.
who farted?
Here are pics of the last 3 years of this buck. As a 3 year old(my estimate), he showed great genetics and potential. Last year he gained size, maybe 35-40 inches, but still hadn't maxed out. This year was huge, gaining mass, and another 30+ inches, but possibly still one, maybe two years away from peak size. Can you image one more year. Well, now you'll have to.
Yelum
Yelum
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Rambo
Guest
Those pictures are awesome! thanks Yelum
"Relax and squeeze the trigger, They can't get away
", quoted from the best hunter I know
"Relax and squeeze the trigger, They can't get away
", quoted from the best hunter I know
T
typicalfreak
Guest
Thats cool! That buck put on alot of growth on its last year!!!
To the question above...
A buck may never get extras and a buck can have extras from the get go depending on its genetics but yes... growth occurs with age... whether its mass, tine length, or EXTRA POINTS... it all increases with age as long as the buck is in its prime or in good health. A buck can also lose growth if its past its prime or in bad health.
I remember hearing from MuleyCrazy that theyve seen boone and crocket bucks at the age of 3. I think most bucks with good genetics will take more time than that in my opinion but dont dought it occurs.
Most bucks that have cheaters or extra points off their main frame are usually 5 yrs of age or older but extra points can be found on younger bucks just as easy.
A mule deer buck matures at the age of 3 and every year after that its capable of putting on more mass, tine length, and points up till the day it dies if it has good health and nutrition.
The character of a bucks rack such as fork depth, width, heigth, mass, number of points, EXTRAS, is determined by its genetics but its ability to put on this character is determined by age and time and is maximized by the nutrients and health it has during this time.
To the question above...
A buck may never get extras and a buck can have extras from the get go depending on its genetics but yes... growth occurs with age... whether its mass, tine length, or EXTRA POINTS... it all increases with age as long as the buck is in its prime or in good health. A buck can also lose growth if its past its prime or in bad health.
I remember hearing from MuleyCrazy that theyve seen boone and crocket bucks at the age of 3. I think most bucks with good genetics will take more time than that in my opinion but dont dought it occurs.
Most bucks that have cheaters or extra points off their main frame are usually 5 yrs of age or older but extra points can be found on younger bucks just as easy.
A mule deer buck matures at the age of 3 and every year after that its capable of putting on more mass, tine length, and points up till the day it dies if it has good health and nutrition.
The character of a bucks rack such as fork depth, width, heigth, mass, number of points, EXTRAS, is determined by its genetics but its ability to put on this character is determined by age and time and is maximized by the nutrients and health it has during this time.
H
huntersrwg
Guest
Yes I would agree that age is a huge factor. We went out on a photo trip this weekend to Antelope Island. This deer was taken right on the ranch at the end of the road on the east side of the island. The deer there are practically tame. I got within 20 yards of a bunch of deer before they would even move. Taking this deer was no more of a hunt than if you went out and shot a cow in a pasture. The F&G guy at the ranch told me that they even hauled the deer away from the ranch and up on the hill to gut it because they didn't want to leave a stinky gut pile next to the ranch where all the visitors are. Now for the positive. The good new is that Antelope Island and the Henry Mountains are models of the potential that nearly every unit in this state has for quality deer. If you let them get old they will get huge! End of story. The other buck I saw was so old that his bones were sticking out everywhere and he was a huge buck too.
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elkmtngear
Guest
Great post, Yelum. Picture is worth a thousand words, I doubt if anyone could have answered that question any better.
Best of Luck,
Jeff
http://www.elkmtngear.com
Best of Luck,
Jeff
http://www.elkmtngear.com
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Rambo
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-19-12 AT 03:27PM (MST)[p]Letting them grow up is the key to growing not just big but giant bucks like the one pictured above. How can this be applied to management?
"Relax and squeeze the trigger, They can't
get away", quoted from the best hunter I
know
"Relax and squeeze the trigger, They can't
get away
", quoted from the best hunter I know
tx_packmule
Active Member
- Messages
- 805
Age has the most to do with it after the majority of their nutritional intake quits going toward skeletal development. Past that, genetics plays a big part and often times injury to the antlers during their growth period.
I'm not sure age has the most to do with a buck becoming huge. All bucks that survive 5 years of age are considered mature bucks, but very very few reach the calibar of the above buck.
Take this next buck. In 09 he was probably a 4 1/2 year old buck with a 185 class rack. In 2010, he jumped to a 210 inch, massive 5x6. Thinking he was on his way up, I was a little disappointed when he returned as a high 190 buck in 2011, and even more bummed the next year when he might not even break 175. Genetics is the key, but age allows the genetics to show. While some bucks get big, they may not have the genes to be smokers.
Yelum
2010
2011
2012
Take this next buck. In 09 he was probably a 4 1/2 year old buck with a 185 class rack. In 2010, he jumped to a 210 inch, massive 5x6. Thinking he was on his way up, I was a little disappointed when he returned as a high 190 buck in 2011, and even more bummed the next year when he might not even break 175. Genetics is the key, but age allows the genetics to show. While some bucks get big, they may not have the genes to be smokers.
Yelum
2010
2011
2012
tx_packmule
Active Member
- Messages
- 805
What are the chances nutrition is the missing puzzle piece on that one? Genetics are there, age is there, only one thing unaccounted for.
I am thinking it was possibly due to a difficult winter. He had to spend so much energy into replenishing his body, he couldn't put it towards his rack.
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer? See Zeke for prime example....
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer? See Zeke for prime example....
swbuckmaster
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,004
Im going to say that buck could also be older then you thought it was because deer tend to shrink after their prim. They get shorter points, less points, but keep the mass.
It could be because their teeth get warn down enough or fall out they simply cant get the nutrition to grow the horns.
Or that buck could have gotton worms he looks very skinny in his last photo. Ive had goats that get worms and they will loose weight or cant keep the weight on. There hair looks like crap ect.
who farted?
It could be because their teeth get warn down enough or fall out they simply cant get the nutrition to grow the horns.
Or that buck could have gotton worms he looks very skinny in his last photo. Ive had goats that get worms and they will loose weight or cant keep the weight on. There hair looks like crap ect.
who farted?
tx_packmule
Active Member
- Messages
- 805
>I am thinking it was possibly
>due to a difficult winter.
>He had to spend so
>much energy into replenishing his
>body, he couldn't put it
>towards his rack.
>
>Mntman
>
That's what I'm getting at. A deer can have 400" genetics with all kinds of trash, but w/o suitable nutrition it won't be able to express those genetics. Poor buck to doe ratios can play into the equation too. They'll be more worried about breeding than eating to maintain fat storage.
>due to a difficult winter.
>He had to spend so
>much energy into replenishing his
>body, he couldn't put it
>towards his rack.
>
>Mntman
>
That's what I'm getting at. A deer can have 400" genetics with all kinds of trash, but w/o suitable nutrition it won't be able to express those genetics. Poor buck to doe ratios can play into the equation too. They'll be more worried about breeding than eating to maintain fat storage.
Here's another age comparision for ya. This buck actually gains the mass and the trash and then cleans out as a booner typical in his last year. Don't ask me why.
Summer 2000 Est Age 2 years
Summer 2002 Est Age 4 years
Summer 2003 Est Age 5 years
Summer 2004 Est Age 6 years
I believe he became catscat shortly after shedding his 04/05 set. Would have loved to see if he would have put the trash back on or stayed clean.
Summer 2000 Est Age 2 years
Summer 2002 Est Age 4 years
Summer 2003 Est Age 5 years
Summer 2004 Est Age 6 years
I believe he became catscat shortly after shedding his 04/05 set. Would have loved to see if he would have put the trash back on or stayed clean.
