What about the COYOTES???

[typicalfreak]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-13 AT 05:24PM (MST)[p]I feel a need to share my thoughts on the coyote and why i think they need more control...

I think they need to crack down on them more and raising the bounty in Utah is good thing but its not a real step in making a huge difference IMO.

I strongly believe and this is just my opinion that a big part of why the deer numbers have been declining in Utah since the 1970s is because the ban of the use of poisons in traps like strick9, 1080 and others for predator control. It was about the same time of the declining trend in the deer herds. Coencidence??? I dont think it is. The poisons were very effective and a group of people had a cow about them and then banned them.

Just my thoughts about this coyote problem. Its nearly impossible to make a huge impact on coyotes by rifle alone and anyone thats been hunting coyotes knows how challenging it can be. But it helps. Every bit helps!

Helicopter control is about the only method that comes close to the good old days of effective predator control when strick9,1080 and other poisons were legal for control. Now its just way harder and I think more helicopter hunts should start if these other only real effective methods are banned.

If i remember right prior to the recent deer transplant operation they killed 35 coyotes in the fillmore/pahvant area in ONLY 1(one) day by helicopter.... 1 day!!!! A year or so ago I heard they killed somewhere around 200 coyotes by copter. If my memory is right it seems like it was down by blanding somewhere but im not 100% sure. There are many more! I hear them all the time but see them not as much as id like... sly devils!!! I know theyre out there and in large numbers. I usually see just as much coyote tracks as deer tracks in all places that I hunt.

Its amazing how many coyotes roam Utah under the radar. They are everywhere and smart and know how to be unseen too! This is why copter hunts should be done more regularly if other effective ways are not possible.

Maybe Utah could get a petition to bring back srick9, 1080 and the like so we can make a difference in our coyote problem If helicopter hunts are too spendy... IDK.

Most people dont realize how many there is out there and dont realize its a problem cuz its real hard to come accross one cuz theyre so smart... THEYRE JUST A MINI WOLF TO THE DEER! And the numbers of coyotes out there are rediculous!

I think if anything there should be more funded hunts by copter throughout the state in these late winter months. Its good that they upped the bounty on them but i dont think thats a big enough step. The herds could use less stress and predation in these months as well as less predation in the fawning season.

 

[ZIGGER]

LOL.....thanks mr obvious....


Genghis Khan raped so many women that 1 in 200 people today carry his genes..

 

[elkassassin]

I thought it was ther Millions of Lions Killing all the Deer?




"""Supporting Speed Limits doesn't make You Anti Car"""

No & You'll never Fix STUPID or WACKO'S by changing Gun Laws You Dumb BITTCH!

 

[thebroker]

I smell a business opportunity. Yes copter hunts, pay the fuel, for the bird and pilot shoot em, pick em up ears and jaw get the bounty, and profit.. Hell ya Kill em all let god sort it out

 

[typicalfreak]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-13 AT 10:48PM (MST)[p]>LOL.....thanks mr obvious....
>
>
Hey Thanks for the great comment Zigger.

I realize that most people know about coyotes... this is not why i posted this... it was to get people thinking by starting conversation. Obviously most people are just thinking about it and not doing enough about it or it wouldnt be such a problem.

More efforts can be made is what i was trying to get at but apparently you want to put down my post.

 

[typicalfreak]

>I thought it was ther Millions
>of Lions Killing all the
>Deer?
>
>

No there is not millions of lions but your blind if you dont know that coyotes are a big problem

 

[thebroker]

No your right on... I would pay big bucks to jump in a copter, go and shoot them down.

 

[typicalfreak]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-13 AT 11:32PM (MST)[p]Coyotes are a huge problem in Utah!!! They are harder on the deer than most people know and believe.

Im not DUMB and I know that this issue isnt addressed enough! Efforts to control them are lacking.

Look at the OBVIOUS here with me again... just before this transplant they go into an area and kill 35 coyotes in a day to help the deer have a fighting chance.... hmmm. Coyotes were removed to give the deer a chance... What??? Then it is a problem... 35 in just one area in one day... thats not a problem...

I gurantee they could do this in just about any area and find staggering results by copter.

Why not go into many areas and do the same thing with the coyotes minus a transplant???

Hire more government trappers... something.

Upping the bounty like I say is a start but wont really bring real amazing results.

 

[huntersrwg]

That is just it we are ignoring the obvious if we don't control the preditors more. There are so many parallels that are happening in other wildlife species as well. For example the wild pheasant population in Utah. We went from having an awesome mecca for pheasants in Utah county. In recent years the population is diminished to populations that are not even huntable and why... habitat change due to agricultural practices and development and lack of predator control! In the past farmers and hunters would trap, shoot, poison and kill as many of the skunks, foxes, and coons that they possibly could allowing the pheasant population to explode. Now that is not happening and the results are obvious. It doesn't take a scientist or expert of any kind to see what the average ordinary everday sportsman can see plainly right in front of your face!

 

[Gator]

Maybe you can get the SFW to pony up the money for a copter hunt for coyotes in every unit that they sell/auction off a high price tag in.
seem it would help them sell more of your tags to have more deer.

Coyotes are on the top of must hunters list,they are shot at anytime they are seen.But shot at and killed is two different things.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[thebroker]

I am in..... SFW get the chopper and OK to hunt them 4 guys in a Huey and get after it blazzin out of both doors I am in.. Trick on the bitches and pups you don't lead them as much as the Male dogs..

 

[LOWCOUNTRY]

Broker you make a good point. Since the average per coyote out of a chopper is around $400.00 per coyote. Those whirly birds are not cheap. Maybe offset the cost somewhat.

 

[Castnshoot]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-13 AT 04:24PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-13 AT 03:52?PM (MST)

Utah needs to pass a law like they have in Texas.

http://helicopterhuntingsafety.com/

Looks like fun.

There are companies there that will take anybody up to shoot coyotes or pigs for a fee.

It has been a real money make for the outfits involved.

There is even a helicopter company in Saint George that advertises that it will take customers to Texas to hunt coyotes from the air.

All you have to do is put some profit in it.

My place has some prime fawning habitat. Every spring there are quite a few Does that drop there fawns in a willow thicket that runs thur my place. Most of those fawns get ate by coyotes.

In the spring time, every time I see a bunch of magpies and eagles hanging in one spot I go down and find nothing left but little fawn hooves.

 

[Castnshoot]

Fur prices are set to SKY ROCKET! This should help.

The latest Hip Hop accessory, just in time for 2013 pimpen season.

It don't matter if you are headed out to the Obama inauguration, or just down to the corner to sling some crack. Don't get caught with out your Coyote shoulder throw.

This is the must have accessory for the 2013 pimpen and slingen season.

 

[smoktem]

Sraight Pimpin!

Funny Stuff Cast.

 

[Deerlove]

Thanks Cast now all we have to do is convince JZ or one of his boyz to wear one of those bad boys.

 

[JustMuleys]

I think all the western states ought to open a night Hunting season for predators. A person could enter in the draw for an annual tag for say $250, which are limited to a statewide number of say 500-750 tags. They would have to register, pass a course and pass all the checks. They would have to be required to call into a hotline, on the nights they planned to hunt, stating where they were going, how many dogs they killed, etc. This hunter could have up to 2 other people register under him for $50 bucks an annual supplemental license.

 

[Gunnie3035]

a few thoughts about this subject... Why was it so easy to poke a hole in a Utah coyote in the 80's if they were all being posioned? If there is so many coyotes in Utah then why can't you ever find one? Why did WY, MT, and NV have such great deer and coyote hunting until the wolves moved in? Coyotes have always been here and always will be. Lions and bears were not here in the numbers they are now. It appears someone isn't telling the truth OR they don't really know what is going on...

Ask a coyote or lion hunter if there is more or less coyotes/lions in Utah than there were 10 years ago. Every single one of them will tell you less animals. So is there really less lions and coyotes than there was in 2002? All I can say is coyotes were easier to hunt 10 years ago.

And hunting out of the air isn't easy unless the terrain is suitable to do so. It is expensive and dangerous. And exactly who documents these kills. The same people getting paid to do the shooting. Survival intinct kicks in and fudging the numbers in any government enity is the norm. How many stories do you hear from locals they air gunned this area last week and killed 85 dogs yet the locals rarely seen them or encountered coyote problems.

So is it lions or coyotes? I don't really know. I do know I see more lion and bear tracks today than I ever have before. The coyote tracks seem to vary from year to year. Sometimes there is a beaten path and other times it is hard to find a fresh track. We will probably never know and the wolf issue coming our way will soon take center stage and get the blame.

 

[thebroker]

Sure four guys 300 a piece SFW DWR kick in the difference go kill a bunch of them $50 x 20 1000 for the yotes 1200 from the shooters It would be fun and for a good cause

 

[nickman]

Probably ought to rethink publicly advocating the use of poisons.

It is stupid and proven to have a devastating effect on ALL of nature, not just the intended target predator.

Any outdoorsman, with a childs' portion of intellect should know that this is the reason poison was discontinued. This is 8th grade biology.

When you make a dumb comment like that, it reflects on hunters in general, giving us a black eye. We don't need your help appearing to be idiots to the general public.

As far as hunting/shooting coyotes goes, no we cannot possibly kill them all. There is probably not a more intelligent, wary, adaptable animal, on this continent than a wild dog......coyote or wolf. They learn as well, or better, and faster than the best purebred Labrador...... and adjust, adapt and overcome as well as a career marine.

While hunting them from a helo is fun and exciting, it is in no way cost effective and I seriously doubt that many State Game agencies will be able/willing to make the investment required to actually make a dent in the problem.

In my opinion, not enough guys have taken the time to actually HUNT them in order to appreciate the challenge they present. I would propose that every big game hunter make a concerted effort to kill 5 coyotes a year.....that would help.

I will try to pick up the slack for some of you guys that don't have access or time. Don't have to thank me, I'm happy to do it.

Utah is leaning in the right direction, but they have added a ton of "red tape" BS to the program, so I don't expect it to really take off either.

"I could agree with you, but then we would both be
wrong......and stupid"

 

[typicalfreak]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 05:45AM (MST)[p]Nickman... You go ahead and pick up the slack for the rest of Utah then, Good luck.

I was mainly advocating helecopter hunts cuz i pretty much know the use of poisons is out, but whatever.

Im aware of the controversy that envolves poisons but honestly what other real effective way do we have other than by helecopter to get the numbers down to where efforts with deer herds arent in vain???

The upped bounty is a step but not big enough. All it is is more money for the same thing thats been going on for years while any effort made for deer improvement is hindered by thriving coyote populations that are over looked. Hunt all you want, yes it helps but coyotes bounce back real quick when a number of them are still in an area.

Extensive EFFECTIVE control makes any real difference and the 60s proved it to be true.

Claim my comments are dumb and idiotic all you want but im just stating facts and trends of the past which are not DUMB cuz we can learn from them. What could be dumb is my opinion i have on them but it could be just as dumb as yours.

If commenting on the facts about poisons in the past that were used during the time of the glory days...(Regardless of how ethical or bad someone believes they were, they were effective)... and then stating my own opinion about them is DUMB while seeing that predator control hasnt been matched or been the same since the time of the ban then OMG... your numorous shut down of these methods that have been mentioned and proven to be effective when done before and saying to keep doing more of exactly whats already put into place and hasnt been making any leaps or bounds has to be.... pure genious!

Nickman.... Im looking at things that make a real impact in coyote control instead of if by missing a beat they bounce right back type of a thing, but then again maybe i under estimate your abilities to "pick up the slack" and get coyote numbers down to a level where the deer can make a real come back for us haha

 

[typicalfreak]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-13 AT 07:03AM (MST)[p]>a few thoughts about this subject...
> Why was it so
>easy to poke a hole
>in a Utah coyote in
>the 80's if they were
>all being posioned?

Gunnie3035... Im sure it was in the year 1972 when the ban of these poisons was put forth and methods of poisons were not being used in the 80s.

Looking at history and trends here. The 60s were prime for Deer. Why???

The sheep farming industry was huge back then in Utah and accross the west... early 1900s and up through the 1960s when deer numbers increased dramatically. Sanpete County Utah had more sheep than the whole state does right now collectively and is still a big county for the sheep industry today. Predator control is still high and extensive from current livestock owners in the county and the deer numbers are outstanding there!

Livestock grazers continually had high methods back in the 1900s with control to protect their livestock because coyotes were devestating to their sheep herds. POISONS were legal at the time and were used often and proved to be an effective method.

All im really sayin is (ethical or unethical), it worked.

Id like to know what can work now??? Cuz we do have a problem in other areas and as much as anyone would like to believe its under wraps... its not! The problem will keep bouncing back like it has for years on this plan unless real efforts are made!

 

[elkun]

elkassassin .dont start it, saving poor old mr kitty cat,,[dead predators eat no deer]]coyotes, wolves.kitty cats, got to go,,,,

 

[Bambistew]

I think you shold make every deer hunter shoot 2-3 coyotes to get a deer tag. There will be a hell of a lot less deer shot every year, and probably a heck of a lot more coyotes. Nothing like put up or shut up.

 

[HunterHarry]

Coyotes kill deer, always have always will.
Back in the 1080 days there were less coyotes and way more big bucks across the west.
There were also less trail cams, ATV's, high dollar european glass, 1000 yard rifles, high tech LRFs, 100 yard bows, 300 yd muzzleloaders, no internet, or Huntin Fool.

So now since we humans have increased our deadliness 10 fold, we need to kill 10 x more coyotes.

;-)

 

[cabinfever]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-13 AT 05:02PM (MST)[p]That fact that coyotes have managed to survive 200 years of lead from settlers,frontiersmen, trappers, ranchers,poison control, callers,hunters,aerial gunners and the recent innovation in hi tec equipment means they are here to stay. Whats even more interesting, coyotes have not only survived, but in good numbers. Coyotes adapt to changing environments better than any critter in North Americas.Wish we could say the same for mule deer.

I have spent the last five years really getting after the predators. I have driven 100's of miles and many long days from well before sun up to well after sun down trying to cut 1 lion track to turn a friends dogs out on. Having spent some serious time chasing lions, I can assure you there are not lions everywhere (at least not where i live) as some would sugges. I'm not a lion hunter so i really don't have a dog in the fight, just an honest observation.I have been running a small trap line and have caught bobcat and fox without any trouble.Coyote is a different story. Tracks abound, but landing one in a trap, or with a gun, is another story. There is one common thread, wether it be hunting deer, trapping, or chasing lions: there is an abundance of coyote sign everywhere I go.

I'd like to see them fire up the poison control machine of the 1960's, but it will never happen given the strong hold of the enviromental movement.I think a healthy bounty system and a good dose of aerial gunning will keep them in check, and of course all sportsman need to do their part.