ColoradoOak
Very Active Member
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An article in today's Gunnison Country Times:
Colorado Governor's tags
- Thread starter ColoradoOak
- Start date
4
4000fps
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-13 AT 04:06PM (MST)[p] "What Gate? That Road Ain't Closed."
I guess the easiest way to avoid gates and road closures, and court appearances is to just use a helicopter...
I guess the easiest way to avoid gates and road closures, and court appearances is to just use a helicopter...
Founder
Founder Since 1999
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- 11,469
It all revolves around how much money they want the tags to produce for the state. The shorter the season, the more restrictions = the less money the tags generate.
It's the same in any state that offers the statewide type auction tags. If in Utah, they didn't allow hunting on the Henry Mountains, the tags would fetch far less. In Colorado, if they close the Gunnison Basin or Eagle County, the tags sale for less.
Auction tags are simply an EXTREMELY cost effective, easy way to generate large sums of money without taking too much. $200,000 (or something like that) for two bucks! They have to sale about 6,500 resident deer tags to generate the same revenue, plus the 6,500 resident tags come with approximately 2,400 bucks being killed and the overhead to manage the sale of those 6,500 tags and all the overhead to manage those hunters.
6,500+ tags, 2,400+ dead bucks, and a buttload of overhead
vs
2 tags, 2 dead bucks, and a few complainers here and there
I'm not saying I'm a fan of gov. tags. I think they paint a bad picture of what I call "hunting", but I understand the logic behind them and do believe that many within the system and many who ultimately support the tags, would be thrilled to find a new source for the funding they generate and avoid the issues that come along with the gov. tags.
It'll be interesting to see what they do in the Gunnison Basin. If they close it, it'll be interesting to see how that effects the value of the tags.
Doesn't anyone know some rich dude who can buy all these gov. tags each year and harvest a "management" buck......LOL
Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
It's the same in any state that offers the statewide type auction tags. If in Utah, they didn't allow hunting on the Henry Mountains, the tags would fetch far less. In Colorado, if they close the Gunnison Basin or Eagle County, the tags sale for less.
Auction tags are simply an EXTREMELY cost effective, easy way to generate large sums of money without taking too much. $200,000 (or something like that) for two bucks! They have to sale about 6,500 resident deer tags to generate the same revenue, plus the 6,500 resident tags come with approximately 2,400 bucks being killed and the overhead to manage the sale of those 6,500 tags and all the overhead to manage those hunters.
6,500+ tags, 2,400+ dead bucks, and a buttload of overhead
vs
2 tags, 2 dead bucks, and a few complainers here and there
I'm not saying I'm a fan of gov. tags. I think they paint a bad picture of what I call "hunting", but I understand the logic behind them and do believe that many within the system and many who ultimately support the tags, would be thrilled to find a new source for the funding they generate and avoid the issues that come along with the gov. tags.
It'll be interesting to see what they do in the Gunnison Basin. If they close it, it'll be interesting to see how that effects the value of the tags.
Doesn't anyone know some rich dude who can buy all these gov. tags each year and harvest a "management" buck......LOL
Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
4
4000fps
Guest
Prostitution generates revenue too, but there is an ethical reason it isn't legal. Quit pimping out the deer.
Gee, I wonder how we Coloradoans and the deer ever got along before these rich governor tag holders came to the rescue 10 year ago?
Gee, I wonder how we Coloradoans and the deer ever got along before these rich governor tag holders came to the rescue 10 year ago?
ColoradoOak
Very Active Member
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There will be another meeting at the Eagle County Fairgrounds Exhibition Hall on March 14th at 6pm.
Founder
Founder Since 1999
- Messages
- 11,469
Utah doesn't have a lottery, unlike Colorado......I knew we were the "more ethical people" over here.......he he he
We just buy our lottery tickets and kill our big deer in Colorado, then go to Nevada for our whores and slot machines. We can then rest easy knowing we're the chosen people. LOL
So those who are totally against gov. tags.....are you against just the auction gov. tags or both the auction and draw gov. tags? Or, primarily just agsinst the guys who get paid to guide someone who buys or draws a gov. tag?
What about the guy who helps a draw gov. tag holder for free? Is he bad?
I don't know that I've ever heard any complaints about a draw gov. tag holder hunting in Dec. .... ???
Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
We just buy our lottery tickets and kill our big deer in Colorado, then go to Nevada for our whores and slot machines. We can then rest easy knowing we're the chosen people. LOL
So those who are totally against gov. tags.....are you against just the auction gov. tags or both the auction and draw gov. tags? Or, primarily just agsinst the guys who get paid to guide someone who buys or draws a gov. tag?
What about the guy who helps a draw gov. tag holder for free? Is he bad?
I don't know that I've ever heard any complaints about a draw gov. tag holder hunting in Dec. .... ???
Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
If nothing else you boys are certainly obsessive... I mean persistant. (sounds a bit less wacko) What is the beef with aircraft if the law is followed with a 24 hr rest from observing to the whackification?? The law is very clear about what is legal vs. not...
It's not like they are out there in -30 degree temps in the dead of winter, chasing the deer over miles of ridges into deep snow, hovering over it, roping it, cutting the horns off to be sold later to the highest bidder... That's what happens here and nothing is said about it.
For the record - don't nibble around the edges- eliminate it (the tag). Good luck with that!
It's not like they are out there in -30 degree temps in the dead of winter, chasing the deer over miles of ridges into deep snow, hovering over it, roping it, cutting the horns off to be sold later to the highest bidder... That's what happens here and nothing is said about it.
For the record - don't nibble around the edges- eliminate it (the tag). Good luck with that!
Dinkshooter
Active Member
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- 229
>I don't know that I've ever
>heard any complaints about a
>draw gov. tag holder hunting
>in Dec. .... ???
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
Um maybe because they didn't hire D-bag guides?
>heard any complaints about a
>draw gov. tag holder hunting
>in Dec. .... ???
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
Um maybe because they didn't hire D-bag guides?
Dinkshooter
Active Member
- Messages
- 229
> It's not like they
>are out there in -30
>degree temps in the dead
>of winter, chasing the
>deer over miles of ridges
>into deep snow, hovering over
>it, roping it, cutting the
>horns off to be sold
>later to the highest bidder...
> That's what happens here
>and nothing is said about
>it.
Talk about whacko.
>are out there in -30
>degree temps in the dead
>of winter, chasing the
>deer over miles of ridges
>into deep snow, hovering over
>it, roping it, cutting the
>horns off to be sold
>later to the highest bidder...
> That's what happens here
>and nothing is said about
>it.
Talk about whacko.
4
4000fps
Guest
Generally the raffle holders don't have money to hire helicopters. That being said, nobody should be shooting deer after deer season, regardless of how they got the tag.
Our seasons in CO run from the end of August all the way into December in the plains units. People really don't think that is enough time to shoot a good buck on the governor tag?
People that defend these governor holders...why? Is it self interest because you are convinced you are going to draw that tag some year? If you claim it generates needed revenues, are you currently donating money to the MDF or game and fish?
Our seasons in CO run from the end of August all the way into December in the plains units. People really don't think that is enough time to shoot a good buck on the governor tag?
People that defend these governor holders...why? Is it self interest because you are convinced you are going to draw that tag some year? If you claim it generates needed revenues, are you currently donating money to the MDF or game and fish?
>Prostitution generates revenue too, but there
>is an ethical reason it
>isn't legal. Quit pimping out
>the deer.
>
>Gee, I wonder how we Coloradoans
>and the deer ever got
>along before these rich governor
>tag holders came to the
>rescue 10 year ago?
Well Said 4000.
>is an ethical reason it
>isn't legal. Quit pimping out
>the deer.
>
>Gee, I wonder how we Coloradoans
>and the deer ever got
>along before these rich governor
>tag holders came to the
>rescue 10 year ago?
Well Said 4000.
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-13 AT 05:31PM (MST)[p]I think dinkshooter and 4000fps hit the nail on the head. When big money gets involved in anything including hunting, greed takes over and what follows is unethical methods being used to take an animal that probably wouldn't normally be taken under what most would consider regular hunting methods. When big money starts paying people that aren't ethical and they violate the law like Brownlee has on numerous occasions and then you add in a bunch of people chasing after a particular animal while being given tips from a helicopter it flat out sucks!!! Anyone, including the site owner, who makes jokes about stuff like this, just doesn't get it! More power to those guys out in the Gunnison Basin and I hope they are able to convince the state to put a stop to this chit and it spreads to all the other states where this type of unethical stuff is going on.
Agreed, allow deer hunting during the lawful designated dates. We don't need the money and I guarantee, not all the money in the world is going to make Colorado a better place to hunt deer. Not now not ever.
I don't like the circus that it has made hunting to be, it seems to have exposed those persons without the ethics necessary to conduct themselves in a worthy manner.
I am against anyone anywhere shooting a buck in December, Gunnison valley or not. Really!
Being a 3rd generation native an I will support banning the Governer's tag.
I don't like the circus that it has made hunting to be, it seems to have exposed those persons without the ethics necessary to conduct themselves in a worthy manner.
I am against anyone anywhere shooting a buck in December, Gunnison valley or not. Really!
Being a 3rd generation native an I will support banning the Governer's tag.
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-13 AT 06:19PM (MST)[p]>Agreed, allow deer hunting during the
>lawful designated dates. We
>don't need the money and
>I guarantee, not all the
>money in the world is
>going to make Colorado a
>better place to hunt deer.
> Not now not ever.
>
>
>I don't like the circus that
>it has made hunting to
>be, it seems to have
>exposed those persons without the
>ethics necessary to conduct themselves
>in a worthy manner.
>
>I am against anyone anywhere shooting
>a buck in December, Gunnison
>valley or not. Really!
>
>
>Being a 3rd generation native an
>I will support banning the
>Governer's tag.
Amen
I would like to see the December deer hunting stopped, period.
This includes the Governor's tags, and the Ranching For Wildlife tags.
I also would like to see something done about one outfitter piggy backing onto another outfitter's license to hunt an area.
Helicopters... Really? that is way across the line
>lawful designated dates. We
>don't need the money and
>I guarantee, not all the
>money in the world is
>going to make Colorado a
>better place to hunt deer.
> Not now not ever.
>
>
>I don't like the circus that
>it has made hunting to
>be, it seems to have
>exposed those persons without the
>ethics necessary to conduct themselves
>in a worthy manner.
>
>I am against anyone anywhere shooting
>a buck in December, Gunnison
>valley or not. Really!
>
>
>Being a 3rd generation native an
>I will support banning the
>Governer's tag.
Amen
I would like to see the December deer hunting stopped, period.
This includes the Governor's tags, and the Ranching For Wildlife tags.
I also would like to see something done about one outfitter piggy backing onto another outfitter's license to hunt an area.
Helicopters... Really? that is way across the line
Dinkshooter
Active Member
- Messages
- 229
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-13 AT 07:52PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-13 AT 06:49?PM (MST)
> Anyone, including the site
>owner, who makes jokes about
>stuff like this, just doesn't
>get it!
Hey, he seems like a great guy that knows how to find big bucks (Founder defending his buddy)
Funny how this entire gov tag program is being brought to it's knees by one freaking mule deer "god".
I'd say if he could hunt muley's worth a crap he wouldn't need any air support. In Colorado or Mexico.
Maybe Colorado should send Mr. Muledeer the bill after the mule deer gov tags are scrapped/changed?
> Anyone, including the site
>owner, who makes jokes about
>stuff like this, just doesn't
>get it!
Hey, he seems like a great guy that knows how to find big bucks (Founder defending his buddy)
Funny how this entire gov tag program is being brought to it's knees by one freaking mule deer "god".
I'd say if he could hunt muley's worth a crap he wouldn't need any air support. In Colorado or Mexico.
Maybe Colorado should send Mr. Muledeer the bill after the mule deer gov tags are scrapped/changed?
I'm against all gov tags and landowner tags that are sold to 3rd parties. I'm not against landowners get tags, but selling them. I second the thought about outfitters piggy-backing licenses. You should either be a landowner or resident to be able to guide.
This year it will have taken me 8 yrs to be able to draw a unit 66 rifle tag, having lots of cash and being a poor steward shouldn't allow someone to jump in front of those that have waited for a chance.
This year it will have taken me 8 yrs to be able to draw a unit 66 rifle tag, having lots of cash and being a poor steward shouldn't allow someone to jump in front of those that have waited for a chance.
ORIONTHEHUNTER
Very Active Member
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- 1,542
Ah come on dinkshooter your just jealous cause he finds big bucks. I believe that was founder's defense of brownlee last time we brought this up. I guess now that he is getting what he deserves nobody wants to defend him anymore.
Its not terribly difficult to find Giant Muleys on the winter ground, with good optics and some rubber on the ground its fairly easy, three weeks ago I saw 2 bucks that would break 230 just off the highway.
I think Gov tags should be kept in place, just restrict the method of take.(like the use of helicopters) Remember residents if these tags are taken away, the CDOW will charge you more for your tags to make up for the lost money.
I think Gov tags should be kept in place, just restrict the method of take.(like the use of helicopters) Remember residents if these tags are taken away, the CDOW will charge you more for your tags to make up for the lost money.
ColoradoOak
Very Active Member
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- 1,920
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-13 AT 11:00PM (MST)[p]>I think Gov tags should be
>kept in place, just restrict
>the method of take.(like the
>use of helicopters)
They already are. That's why the investigation is ongoing.
>Remember
>residents if these tags are
>taken away, the CDOW will
>charge you more for your
>tags to make up for
>the lost money.
No they won't. One hundred percent of the money raised goes to special projects outside the CPW budget. It will be really disappointing if the program is altered and brings in less money in the future because of a few Utah jacka$$es. But that's how they role over there. And everybody thinks it's a big joke, and we are just "jealous that we don't have the opportunity." But ultimately, those who don't think the rules apply to them, and those like Founder who defend them, will be the demise of a pretty good thing.
>kept in place, just restrict
>the method of take.(like the
>use of helicopters)
They already are. That's why the investigation is ongoing.
>Remember
>residents if these tags are
>taken away, the CDOW will
>charge you more for your
>tags to make up for
>the lost money.
No they won't. One hundred percent of the money raised goes to special projects outside the CPW budget. It will be really disappointing if the program is altered and brings in less money in the future because of a few Utah jacka$$es. But that's how they role over there. And everybody thinks it's a big joke, and we are just "jealous that we don't have the opportunity." But ultimately, those who don't think the rules apply to them, and those like Founder who defend them, will be the demise of a pretty good thing.
Tomichi
Active Member
- Messages
- 639
Founder when you say ?Draw? tags I think you mean ?raffle? And yes I am now against the Raffle
Tags going past the end of regular season in the specific GMU. This is not about closing the Gunnison DAU?s it is a State wide problem. I do support the Raffle and Auction tags being valid in December Hunts in the Eastern Plains in open regular Seasons I think they all end the 14th.
In 2014 the ?GOV Tags ?Both raffle and auction should be valid September 1 to the end of the regular season ?specific? to the GMU the deer dies in. Period.
The fact is some years it is 4 tags and 4 dead bucks and define ?a few? complainers. It is more than a ?few?. The 4 dead bucks are not biologically significant. Killing 4 bucks in December is not going to ruin our deer herd. But will it stop at 4? Few of you know of a proposal for more ?GOV? tags in Colorado. Ya folks a COLO tag grab. There is a proposal to add 6 more tags to the mix, 1 raffle 1 Auction For 3 GMU?s In west central. 1 raffle 1 auction good in 4 North West GMU?s and 1 raffle 1 auction that would be valid in 3 of the Gunny GMU?s. I have been verbally told this proposal is dead ,pulled, finished With a fork in it. I will confirm it is DEAD on the 4th. If it is not I will make sure it becomes PUBLIC and they can take their stoning. Didn?t we do this last year in Arizona?
Raffle verse Auction. I need some help here. The first buck posted and pulled here from Eagle. The one that was argued who was most prominent in the photo, shooter or guide. Was that an auction tag or a raffle tag? I was told it was a raffle winner from Maryland? Any one sure?
I was told the CMDA auction guy shot his near Carbondale? Any one sure?
The GMU 54 buck in the Gunnison Paper was the MDF Auction guy correct?
Anyone know of the other Raffle Deer?
Folks there are a lot of issues here in Gunnison that are hard to keep up with. From 1984 until COLO went limited this basin had a whooping post hunt buck to doe ratio of less than 15 bucks per 100 and a lot of years it was less than 10. We fixed that with a %90 reduction in issued tags that equals a loss of (opportunity) and( revenue) to have 50+ per 100 does the years before the winter of 07-08. Our new as of 01-2013 Buck doe objectives are for 35 to 40 Bucks per 100 does. CPW with reduced tag numbers after the winter kill have gotten all three Gunnison DAU?s too the 35 to 40 objective by January of 2014. (Good on them). In 2014 I expect it will take double digit Preference points to pull a third season RESIDENT tag in this basin. Why? Could it be the rest of the West and the rest of this state is not as well managed? So as a 4th generation Gunny guy, Hell yes it is sour grapes for these guys to come in here in December and gun down a weak rutted out AGED trophy buck that we have sacrificed (Opportunity) so that deer could live long enough to get big. Then to see the choppers, gang hunting ,snowmobiling, land closer challenging /threating going on it is pretty tough to take. Folks if our local CPW, BLM USFS closes an area in the winter there is a valid reason. It is not always to keep the elk off the private. Sometimes it is to keep the elk off the deer! The drought of 2012 stunted and killed sage and bitter brush. Our service berry and mahogany did not grow. I have an ?Ice Cream? plant on my drive way that is browsed down to thumb sized limbs this week and it is an open winter! The Gunnison Sage Grouse IS GOING ON the endangered species list next month. I think we have all seen how well the USFW handled those big coyotes north of here. I can't wait to have an office full of them guys in town. Good god another added cost of ?healthy? Buck to doe ratios is we have to have a SHED ANTLER SEASON to protect our deer.
Squirrel, I have just enough info to be dangerous on CPW net gunning and sawing the horns off that buck in your county so I won't say more. Can you Pm me what you know? From what little I know I am with you.
Folks I have extensive knowledge of CPW/CDOW budget, license sales, revenue, funding. I know how tight things are. Don?t forget COLORADO has fish and hatcheries and PARKS now also.
But the issue for 2014 is a simple one. Are the auction and raffle tags and the human behavior that comes with them worth the dollars they generate? In my opinion they are not.
Tags going past the end of regular season in the specific GMU. This is not about closing the Gunnison DAU?s it is a State wide problem. I do support the Raffle and Auction tags being valid in December Hunts in the Eastern Plains in open regular Seasons I think they all end the 14th.
In 2014 the ?GOV Tags ?Both raffle and auction should be valid September 1 to the end of the regular season ?specific? to the GMU the deer dies in. Period.
The fact is some years it is 4 tags and 4 dead bucks and define ?a few? complainers. It is more than a ?few?. The 4 dead bucks are not biologically significant. Killing 4 bucks in December is not going to ruin our deer herd. But will it stop at 4? Few of you know of a proposal for more ?GOV? tags in Colorado. Ya folks a COLO tag grab. There is a proposal to add 6 more tags to the mix, 1 raffle 1 Auction For 3 GMU?s In west central. 1 raffle 1 auction good in 4 North West GMU?s and 1 raffle 1 auction that would be valid in 3 of the Gunny GMU?s. I have been verbally told this proposal is dead ,pulled, finished With a fork in it. I will confirm it is DEAD on the 4th. If it is not I will make sure it becomes PUBLIC and they can take their stoning. Didn?t we do this last year in Arizona?
Raffle verse Auction. I need some help here. The first buck posted and pulled here from Eagle. The one that was argued who was most prominent in the photo, shooter or guide. Was that an auction tag or a raffle tag? I was told it was a raffle winner from Maryland? Any one sure?
I was told the CMDA auction guy shot his near Carbondale? Any one sure?
The GMU 54 buck in the Gunnison Paper was the MDF Auction guy correct?
Anyone know of the other Raffle Deer?
Folks there are a lot of issues here in Gunnison that are hard to keep up with. From 1984 until COLO went limited this basin had a whooping post hunt buck to doe ratio of less than 15 bucks per 100 and a lot of years it was less than 10. We fixed that with a %90 reduction in issued tags that equals a loss of (opportunity) and( revenue) to have 50+ per 100 does the years before the winter of 07-08. Our new as of 01-2013 Buck doe objectives are for 35 to 40 Bucks per 100 does. CPW with reduced tag numbers after the winter kill have gotten all three Gunnison DAU?s too the 35 to 40 objective by January of 2014. (Good on them). In 2014 I expect it will take double digit Preference points to pull a third season RESIDENT tag in this basin. Why? Could it be the rest of the West and the rest of this state is not as well managed? So as a 4th generation Gunny guy, Hell yes it is sour grapes for these guys to come in here in December and gun down a weak rutted out AGED trophy buck that we have sacrificed (Opportunity) so that deer could live long enough to get big. Then to see the choppers, gang hunting ,snowmobiling, land closer challenging /threating going on it is pretty tough to take. Folks if our local CPW, BLM USFS closes an area in the winter there is a valid reason. It is not always to keep the elk off the private. Sometimes it is to keep the elk off the deer! The drought of 2012 stunted and killed sage and bitter brush. Our service berry and mahogany did not grow. I have an ?Ice Cream? plant on my drive way that is browsed down to thumb sized limbs this week and it is an open winter! The Gunnison Sage Grouse IS GOING ON the endangered species list next month. I think we have all seen how well the USFW handled those big coyotes north of here. I can't wait to have an office full of them guys in town. Good god another added cost of ?healthy? Buck to doe ratios is we have to have a SHED ANTLER SEASON to protect our deer.
Squirrel, I have just enough info to be dangerous on CPW net gunning and sawing the horns off that buck in your county so I won't say more. Can you Pm me what you know? From what little I know I am with you.
Folks I have extensive knowledge of CPW/CDOW budget, license sales, revenue, funding. I know how tight things are. Don?t forget COLORADO has fish and hatcheries and PARKS now also.
But the issue for 2014 is a simple one. Are the auction and raffle tags and the human behavior that comes with them worth the dollars they generate? In my opinion they are not.
Tomichi...
Someone who can think, read AND write??? What the hell are you doing on HERE??? All kidding aside I know a lot about what goes on on this whole sad story and would love to talk to you.
The only ones who know more wear uniforms and were in the helicopter and they are not to be believed, if you can even get them to lie. The fixes are very easy but politically difficult.
The ones who profit will say they are "impossible". It will be very difficult to get the camel's nose out of the tent as he has seen the interior and wants to come all the way inside...
As you state our range is in terrible condition we are on the brink of a massive die-off- perhaps the worst I have ever seen, depends on how the spring plays out... and the morons are already out on sleds and snowshoes gridding the sage for sheds that haven't fallen yet. Crap now I'm late for work I'll pm you later!
Someone who can think, read AND write??? What the hell are you doing on HERE??? All kidding aside I know a lot about what goes on on this whole sad story and would love to talk to you.
The only ones who know more wear uniforms and were in the helicopter and they are not to be believed, if you can even get them to lie. The fixes are very easy but politically difficult.
The ones who profit will say they are "impossible". It will be very difficult to get the camel's nose out of the tent as he has seen the interior and wants to come all the way inside...
As you state our range is in terrible condition we are on the brink of a massive die-off- perhaps the worst I have ever seen, depends on how the spring plays out... and the morons are already out on sleds and snowshoes gridding the sage for sheds that haven't fallen yet. Crap now I'm late for work I'll pm you later!
4
4000fps
Guest
Wyomings governor's tag ends the last day of their hunting season. People keep buying it regardless. Hell, most of us wait years for an opportunity to hunt deer for only one week, yet people feel sorry that a governor tag holder only gets 2.5 months?
cabinfever
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,382
++1 Tomichi
Founder
Here is the problem with gov tags:
Organizations like SFW & MDF promote and participate in the sell of these tags with the claim that the money goes back into habitat projects that ultimately promotes the growth of deer and elk herds, that in turn allows for more tags to be available to the average joe. This is a great concept, and one I believe most sportman could get on board with if it actually produced results. The problem is, sportsman are being sold a bill of goods and they know it each fall when they head home from the hills. The fact is, deer herds in Utah and throughout the west are declining not increasing.I have zero against the guys who purchase these tags or the outfitters who guide them, but lets be honest, has the millions of dollars generated from the sale of these tags, really put enough money on the ground to benefit mule deer.The devil is in the details.Ask anyone from the gunnison basin and they will tell you it was the reduction in tags that caused deer herds to explode, not million dollar habitat projects generated from the sale of governors tags.
Founder
Here is the problem with gov tags:
Organizations like SFW & MDF promote and participate in the sell of these tags with the claim that the money goes back into habitat projects that ultimately promotes the growth of deer and elk herds, that in turn allows for more tags to be available to the average joe. This is a great concept, and one I believe most sportman could get on board with if it actually produced results. The problem is, sportsman are being sold a bill of goods and they know it each fall when they head home from the hills. The fact is, deer herds in Utah and throughout the west are declining not increasing.I have zero against the guys who purchase these tags or the outfitters who guide them, but lets be honest, has the millions of dollars generated from the sale of these tags, really put enough money on the ground to benefit mule deer.The devil is in the details.Ask anyone from the gunnison basin and they will tell you it was the reduction in tags that caused deer herds to explode, not million dollar habitat projects generated from the sale of governors tags.
4
4000fps
Guest
No amount of money can fix the declining population. The only thing that will boost the population is shut down hunting for a couple years. Once again that will never happen because they will lose money to buy toilet paper for the state parks.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,859
This is about nothing more than classwarfare and control. If it was actually about saving deer the GWA and all you cry babies would pool your funds and buy the tag each year so nothing could be shot. Think about it. Yall could decide the fate of a single mule deer buck and the evil rich people couldn't complain about the state loosing any funds. But that takes sacrifice and we all know yall aren't willing to do that. Its easier to screw other sportsmen and legislate the demize of a species.
Dinkshooter
Active Member
- Messages
- 229
Thanks for your insight, that was deep...........
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,859
Dinkshooter,
Do you think there are 1000 people in the state of Colorado that agree with you? If there are then everybody should pony up $200 and change wildlife management in your state. $200 per man to take a stand against something you truly believe in is nothing. I bet you can't get 1000 people to do it. You know why? Because saving that damn deer ain't the point. The point is screwing over sportsmen that have more money than you.
Do you think there are 1000 people in the state of Colorado that agree with you? If there are then everybody should pony up $200 and change wildlife management in your state. $200 per man to take a stand against something you truly believe in is nothing. I bet you can't get 1000 people to do it. You know why? Because saving that damn deer ain't the point. The point is screwing over sportsmen that have more money than you.
4
4000fps
Guest
haha, cannot believe you actually typed the word "sportsman" when referring to the governor tag holder! Laying around scratching your nuts waiting for a phone call from a bounty hunter doesn't take much skill.
On a positive note, at least Utards can add the demise of the COLORADO governor's tag to their list of other wildlife failures.
On a positive note, at least Utards can add the demise of the COLORADO governor's tag to their list of other wildlife failures.
>Dinkshooter,
>
>Do you think there are 1000
>people in the state of
>Colorado that agree with you?
> If there are then
>everybody should pony up $200
>and change wildlife management in
>your state. $200 per
>man to take a stand
>against something you truly believe
>in is nothing. I
>bet you can't get 1000
>people to do it.
>You know why? Because
>saving that damn deer ain't
>the point. The point
>is screwing over sportsmen that
>have more money than you.
>
Now that is funny, was wondering how long it would take TS to come on here and start attacking people because they didn't agree with him.
I'd rather pony up$200 to file a suit against the DOW to stop this FOREVER than to come up with $200 every year to save a deer. Simple economics thinking, just saying.
Don't mind the auction tags, they should just have to follow the seasons that are already established, basically the same as Utah's premium tag system except you buy it or win it in a raffle versus the states draw system. Problem solved, rich guys get to hunt for $200k, DOW get their supposedly $150k plus (what ever the amount is) for their habitat improvement and yet the deer are being taken in a respectable time frame/weapon that isn't out of reason.
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
>
>Do you think there are 1000
>people in the state of
>Colorado that agree with you?
> If there are then
>everybody should pony up $200
>and change wildlife management in
>your state. $200 per
>man to take a stand
>against something you truly believe
>in is nothing. I
>bet you can't get 1000
>people to do it.
>You know why? Because
>saving that damn deer ain't
>the point. The point
>is screwing over sportsmen that
>have more money than you.
>
Now that is funny, was wondering how long it would take TS to come on here and start attacking people because they didn't agree with him.
I'd rather pony up$200 to file a suit against the DOW to stop this FOREVER than to come up with $200 every year to save a deer. Simple economics thinking, just saying.
Don't mind the auction tags, they should just have to follow the seasons that are already established, basically the same as Utah's premium tag system except you buy it or win it in a raffle versus the states draw system. Problem solved, rich guys get to hunt for $200k, DOW get their supposedly $150k plus (what ever the amount is) for their habitat improvement and yet the deer are being taken in a respectable time frame/weapon that isn't out of reason.
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?
Dinkshooter
Active Member
- Messages
- 229
LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-13 AT 02:30PM (MST)[p]>Dinkshooter,
>
>Do you think there are 1000
>people in the state of
>Colorado that agree with you?
> If there are then
>everybody should pony up $200
>and change wildlife management in
>your state. $200 per
>man to take a stand
>against something you truly believe
>in is nothing. I
>bet you can't get 1000
>people to do it.
>You know why? Because
>saving that damn deer ain't
>the point. The point
>is screwing over sportsmen that
>have more money than you.
>
Wow, ever deeper, again thanks for your extensive insight to this problem.............
>
>Do you think there are 1000
>people in the state of
>Colorado that agree with you?
> If there are then
>everybody should pony up $200
>and change wildlife management in
>your state. $200 per
>man to take a stand
>against something you truly believe
>in is nothing. I
>bet you can't get 1000
>people to do it.
>You know why? Because
>saving that damn deer ain't
>the point. The point
>is screwing over sportsmen that
>have more money than you.
>
Wow, ever deeper, again thanks for your extensive insight to this problem.............
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,859
"Now that is funny, was wondering how long it would take TS to come on here and start attacking people because they didn't agree with him."
Who got attacked? Before I showed up here it was a bunch of haters bashing money, wealthy people, people who use guides, and people who would shoot a deer on winter range. Heck I just solved the entire problem for both sides. You get to decide when, where and how the deer gets killed or doesn't, and the state DOW still gets the income from the tag. Those evil rich, nutscratching, sportsmen won't have anything to complain about.
"I'd rather pony up$200 to file a suit against the DOW to stop this FOREVER than to come up with $200 every year to save a deer. Simple economics thinking, just saying."
SO you would wrather gamble on giving an attorney the $200K on a case you may not win, suck money out of the state for legal fees, and then deny the DOW a couple hundred thousand. All that to keep one deer a year from getting whacked when and where you don't want it to???????? Are you sure you aren't a member of the HSUS?
Who got attacked? Before I showed up here it was a bunch of haters bashing money, wealthy people, people who use guides, and people who would shoot a deer on winter range. Heck I just solved the entire problem for both sides. You get to decide when, where and how the deer gets killed or doesn't, and the state DOW still gets the income from the tag. Those evil rich, nutscratching, sportsmen won't have anything to complain about.
"I'd rather pony up$200 to file a suit against the DOW to stop this FOREVER than to come up with $200 every year to save a deer. Simple economics thinking, just saying."
SO you would wrather gamble on giving an attorney the $200K on a case you may not win, suck money out of the state for legal fees, and then deny the DOW a couple hundred thousand. All that to keep one deer a year from getting whacked when and where you don't want it to???????? Are you sure you aren't a member of the HSUS?
Utah400Elk
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,269
Tristate,
Should the people of a state have a right to govern their state as they see fit? I am just saying this seems like a Colorado issue to me. Would you be ok with people from New York and California telling Texas they shouldn't be hunting? Why are you so quick to tell other people in other states what their fish and game and the people of that state should do? I am glad you like the system you have in Texas but that does not mean it should be implemented in the other states. JMO
Should the people of a state have a right to govern their state as they see fit? I am just saying this seems like a Colorado issue to me. Would you be ok with people from New York and California telling Texas they shouldn't be hunting? Why are you so quick to tell other people in other states what their fish and game and the people of that state should do? I am glad you like the system you have in Texas but that does not mean it should be implemented in the other states. JMO
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,859
"Tristate,
Should the people of a state have a right to govern their state as they see fit? I am just saying this seems like a Colorado issue to me."
You bet. If decisions made by that government only effects citizens of that state and no one else then they can hash it out without me. However this issue spills over their borders in more ways than one and effects people all over the Nation.
" Would you be ok with people from New York and California telling Texas they shouldn't be hunting?"
No I am not OK with anyone telling other people they shouldn't be hunting. That is why I am in this arguement. You have a group of people telling other people they shouldn't be able to hunt under the current rules, and that ain't me. That basicly makes them anti-hunters.
" Why are you so quick to tell other people in other states what their fish and game and the people of that state should do? I am glad you like the system you have in Texas but that does not mean it should be implemented in the other states. JMO "
The problem is the NACM. It is outdated and failing. Opportunities get less and less for people across this nation and it has been almost a four decade trend. The NACM is a North American problem. Not just a micro management issue with a single state here or there. Our children are all about to get passed this broke down excuse of a wildlife system. Now our state wildlife agencies are on the verge of being as useless and broke as a multitude of other social programs you allready dislike.
I want to ask you a real question. What do you think a bunch of government employees are going to do that are managing a resource that is horribly undervalued and does nothing but cause them head aches and cost them money? You know what will end up happening??? Some government employee will be just smart enough to make the problem smaller. They will realize the less they do to benefit mule deer the more money they will save. And the more money they save the fewer mule deer will they have to manage. Pretty soon there will be fewer and fewer hunters since after all there are fewer and fewer mule deer. So then they start puting two and two together and realize the trick to making it in their job isn't to pander to the people who want to pay nothing to kill a worthless animal. Its easier just to get rid of the worthless animal. They will be able to tell you it was weather trends or habitat encroachment is what did it, while the few old hunters left argue over how when or where the last mule deer gets killed and none of them will be held accountable. It starts a downward spiral that will be almost impossible to recover from.
Should the people of a state have a right to govern their state as they see fit? I am just saying this seems like a Colorado issue to me."
You bet. If decisions made by that government only effects citizens of that state and no one else then they can hash it out without me. However this issue spills over their borders in more ways than one and effects people all over the Nation.
" Would you be ok with people from New York and California telling Texas they shouldn't be hunting?"
No I am not OK with anyone telling other people they shouldn't be hunting. That is why I am in this arguement. You have a group of people telling other people they shouldn't be able to hunt under the current rules, and that ain't me. That basicly makes them anti-hunters.
" Why are you so quick to tell other people in other states what their fish and game and the people of that state should do? I am glad you like the system you have in Texas but that does not mean it should be implemented in the other states. JMO "
The problem is the NACM. It is outdated and failing. Opportunities get less and less for people across this nation and it has been almost a four decade trend. The NACM is a North American problem. Not just a micro management issue with a single state here or there. Our children are all about to get passed this broke down excuse of a wildlife system. Now our state wildlife agencies are on the verge of being as useless and broke as a multitude of other social programs you allready dislike.
I want to ask you a real question. What do you think a bunch of government employees are going to do that are managing a resource that is horribly undervalued and does nothing but cause them head aches and cost them money? You know what will end up happening??? Some government employee will be just smart enough to make the problem smaller. They will realize the less they do to benefit mule deer the more money they will save. And the more money they save the fewer mule deer will they have to manage. Pretty soon there will be fewer and fewer hunters since after all there are fewer and fewer mule deer. So then they start puting two and two together and realize the trick to making it in their job isn't to pander to the people who want to pay nothing to kill a worthless animal. Its easier just to get rid of the worthless animal. They will be able to tell you it was weather trends or habitat encroachment is what did it, while the few old hunters left argue over how when or where the last mule deer gets killed and none of them will be held accountable. It starts a downward spiral that will be almost impossible to recover from.
Utah400Elk
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,269
Tristate,
There are A LOT of assumptions in your last statement. You assume what government worker will and won't do. Lets have a little history lesson shall we...a long time ago a group of concerned hunters got together to save Utah mule deer. I was one of them. We marched on the Capitol and demanded something be done about the decline in Utah mule deer. SFW was born from that movement. They created a new model wherein a lot of tags are now sold to the highest bidder. I think you favor that system. Since the start of the SFW system in Utah the mule deer numbers have drastically declined. Some of the deer tags in Utah sell for a lot of money but their deer herds are hurting. Their system has more high dollar tags than anybody but their deer hunting isn't any better.
So why would you think pushing the system more towards the SFW model will save the deer? It hasn't worked out so far so why would you think more is better?
On to your question. I believe the government workers will do what they are mandated to do. If the people of their state want serious mule deer management then that is what they will do. If the people of any given state want their deer managed like Texas then that is what the government workers will do.
Also, just because you think the NACM does not work doesn't make it the truth. Since the start of the NACM deer numbers (whitetail) elk and turkey numbers have skyrocketed. Simple fact. The NACM has been a huge success! The kings deer idea died long ago... But that's just my opinion.
There are A LOT of assumptions in your last statement. You assume what government worker will and won't do. Lets have a little history lesson shall we...a long time ago a group of concerned hunters got together to save Utah mule deer. I was one of them. We marched on the Capitol and demanded something be done about the decline in Utah mule deer. SFW was born from that movement. They created a new model wherein a lot of tags are now sold to the highest bidder. I think you favor that system. Since the start of the SFW system in Utah the mule deer numbers have drastically declined. Some of the deer tags in Utah sell for a lot of money but their deer herds are hurting. Their system has more high dollar tags than anybody but their deer hunting isn't any better.
So why would you think pushing the system more towards the SFW model will save the deer? It hasn't worked out so far so why would you think more is better?
On to your question. I believe the government workers will do what they are mandated to do. If the people of their state want serious mule deer management then that is what they will do. If the people of any given state want their deer managed like Texas then that is what the government workers will do.
Also, just because you think the NACM does not work doesn't make it the truth. Since the start of the NACM deer numbers (whitetail) elk and turkey numbers have skyrocketed. Simple fact. The NACM has been a huge success! The kings deer idea died long ago... But that's just my opinion.
BEARDOWNAZ
Member
- Messages
- 7
Though the North Amercian Conservation Model (NACM) may not be perfect, if you really want to end hunting as we known it, go ahead and privatize all the public lands in the west. Once "the kings" own all the land and the game, you will certainly see fewer hunting opportunites. This will lead to the loss of a heritage that many Americans use to justify gun ownership. Guess what happens next!!! If you doubt the importance of the NACM, check out Europe. Ask our European cousins how easy it is to hunt or even own a firearm. As we showed last year with the defeat of the SFW tag grab in Arizona, most hunters are smart enough to see the threat that turning our heritage and public resources into a private revenue generator pose.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,859
"Tristate,
There are A LOT of assumptions in your last statement. You assume what government worker will and won't do. Lets have a little history lesson shall we...a long time ago a group of concerned hunters got together to save Utah mule deer. I was one of them. We marched on the Capitol and demanded something be done about the decline in Utah mule deer. SFW was born from that movement. They created a new model wherein a lot of tags are now sold to the highest bidder. I think you favor that system. Since the start of the SFW system in Utah the mule deer numbers have drastically declined. Some of the deer tags in Utah sell for a lot of money but their deer herds are hurting. Their system has more high dollar tags than anybody but their deer hunting isn't any better."
First of all I have never stated that I favor the SFW system. Secondly the old system, not the SFW system has been the major operating system fo generating revenue for the Utah DWR. Management never got turned over to SFW. They were alloted les than %1 of the tags in Utah and are responsible for less than %5 of revenue in the State budget. If you think that is how you can measure results you are kidding yourself.
"So why would you think pushing the system more towards the SFW model will save the deer? It hasn't worked out so far so why would you think more is better?"
Once again I am not pushing towards the SFW model. You are assuming something I have never said. You know there are more than two wildlife plans that could be used for Utah don't you?
"On to your question. I believe the government workers will do what they are mandated to do. If the people of their state want serious mule deer management then that is what they will do. If the people of any given state want their deer managed like Texas then that is what the government workers will do."
Not if there ain't no damn money for it. They just can't miracle dollars out their backside when they want to. These agencies are restricted by revenue.
"Also, just because you think the NACM does not work doesn't make it the truth. Since the start of the NACM deer numbers (whitetail) elk and turkey numbers have skyrocketed. Simple fact. The NACM has been a huge success! The kings deer idea died long ago... But that's just my opinion."
NACM isn't working. The whitetail have flurished as private land management has flurished and private dollars have driven that engine. As for the turkeys they were almost whiped out under the NACM but private dollars and investment have brought them back. Under the NACM 3 of the 6 elk subspecies are lost forever and will never be brought back. The elk's range has been reduced by over %70. As for this kings deer idea you are just being melodramatic. No one here is pushing for a kings deer wildlife model.
There are A LOT of assumptions in your last statement. You assume what government worker will and won't do. Lets have a little history lesson shall we...a long time ago a group of concerned hunters got together to save Utah mule deer. I was one of them. We marched on the Capitol and demanded something be done about the decline in Utah mule deer. SFW was born from that movement. They created a new model wherein a lot of tags are now sold to the highest bidder. I think you favor that system. Since the start of the SFW system in Utah the mule deer numbers have drastically declined. Some of the deer tags in Utah sell for a lot of money but their deer herds are hurting. Their system has more high dollar tags than anybody but their deer hunting isn't any better."
First of all I have never stated that I favor the SFW system. Secondly the old system, not the SFW system has been the major operating system fo generating revenue for the Utah DWR. Management never got turned over to SFW. They were alloted les than %1 of the tags in Utah and are responsible for less than %5 of revenue in the State budget. If you think that is how you can measure results you are kidding yourself.
"So why would you think pushing the system more towards the SFW model will save the deer? It hasn't worked out so far so why would you think more is better?"
Once again I am not pushing towards the SFW model. You are assuming something I have never said. You know there are more than two wildlife plans that could be used for Utah don't you?
"On to your question. I believe the government workers will do what they are mandated to do. If the people of their state want serious mule deer management then that is what they will do. If the people of any given state want their deer managed like Texas then that is what the government workers will do."
Not if there ain't no damn money for it. They just can't miracle dollars out their backside when they want to. These agencies are restricted by revenue.
"Also, just because you think the NACM does not work doesn't make it the truth. Since the start of the NACM deer numbers (whitetail) elk and turkey numbers have skyrocketed. Simple fact. The NACM has been a huge success! The kings deer idea died long ago... But that's just my opinion."
NACM isn't working. The whitetail have flurished as private land management has flurished and private dollars have driven that engine. As for the turkeys they were almost whiped out under the NACM but private dollars and investment have brought them back. Under the NACM 3 of the 6 elk subspecies are lost forever and will never be brought back. The elk's range has been reduced by over %70. As for this kings deer idea you are just being melodramatic. No one here is pushing for a kings deer wildlife model.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,859
"Though the North Amercian Conservation Model (NACM) may not be perfect, if you really want to end hunting as we known it, go ahead and privatize all the public lands in the west. Once "the kings" own all the land and the game, you will certainly see fewer hunting opportunites."
Really??? Here in Texas %96 of land is privately owned. We have more hunting opportunities than all of yall. We have a single big game species that brings in over 1 billion dollars in revenue to our state alone. 1 SPECIES!
" This will lead to the loss of a heritage that many Americans use to justify gun ownership. Guess what happens next!!!"
People who justify gun ownership for hunting have been screwed out of an education. Gun ownership is to protect you from a tyranical government. Even your own.
" If you doubt the importance of the NACM, check out Europe. Ask our European cousins how easy it is to hunt or even own a firearm."
No one in Europe has a second ammendment.
" As we showed last year with the defeat of the SFW tag grab in Arizona, most hunters are smart enough to see the threat that turning our heritage and public resources into a private revenue generator pose."
Are these the same dudes that think the second ammendment is for hunting purposes. No wonder Obama got elected.
Really??? Here in Texas %96 of land is privately owned. We have more hunting opportunities than all of yall. We have a single big game species that brings in over 1 billion dollars in revenue to our state alone. 1 SPECIES!
" This will lead to the loss of a heritage that many Americans use to justify gun ownership. Guess what happens next!!!"
People who justify gun ownership for hunting have been screwed out of an education. Gun ownership is to protect you from a tyranical government. Even your own.
" If you doubt the importance of the NACM, check out Europe. Ask our European cousins how easy it is to hunt or even own a firearm."
No one in Europe has a second ammendment.
" As we showed last year with the defeat of the SFW tag grab in Arizona, most hunters are smart enough to see the threat that turning our heritage and public resources into a private revenue generator pose."
Are these the same dudes that think the second ammendment is for hunting purposes. No wonder Obama got elected.
It would be interesting to take a vote with all Colo hunters on this issue! My guess is that a large proportion would be in favor of governor's/raffle tags but would be totally against allowing hunting outside established hunting dates.
These tags would still bring a fair price whether they are during established season dates or not. This seems like a great compromise to me. Also, require those that secure these tags burn their pref points....similar to what "should" be done with landowner tags!
These tags would still bring a fair price whether they are during established season dates or not. This seems like a great compromise to me. Also, require those that secure these tags burn their pref points....similar to what "should" be done with landowner tags!
Utah400Elk
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,269
Tristate,
Check your facts! To argue about something you have no idea about is crazy. In Utah 5% of the LE tags (10% of the sheep tags) are given to conservation organizations. That does not include the expo tags. In several instances they actually get more.
The elk species you are talking about were wippedout before the NACM. That is a fact! One of the main reasons wildlife has flurised so much is because the public has a stake in the game. They (the public) own the wildlife. That is where the majority of the "private dollars and investments" have come from.
Do you believe the land owner should own the wildlife that is on his/her land? If so that is the kings deer idea. Just saying...
I hope your day gets better boy.
Check your facts! To argue about something you have no idea about is crazy. In Utah 5% of the LE tags (10% of the sheep tags) are given to conservation organizations. That does not include the expo tags. In several instances they actually get more.
The elk species you are talking about were wippedout before the NACM. That is a fact! One of the main reasons wildlife has flurised so much is because the public has a stake in the game. They (the public) own the wildlife. That is where the majority of the "private dollars and investments" have come from.
Do you believe the land owner should own the wildlife that is on his/her land? If so that is the kings deer idea. Just saying...
I hope your day gets better boy.
Utah400Elk
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,269
I agree that this is a Colorado issue. If they choose to change their season it is up to them.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,859
Tristate,
"Check your facts! To argue about something you have no idea about is crazy. In Utah 5% of the LE tags (10% of the sheep tags) are given to conservation organizations. That does not include the expo tags. In several instances they actually get more."
Oh I'm sorry I didn't know that all the deer tags in Utah are limited entry and that them and sheep are the only big game animals there. If you can't feel my sarcasm I am sorry because I am laying it on pretty thick. I have been talking about the entire system of mangement for Utah. Not just premium tags or LE tags.
"The elk species you are talking about were wippedout before the NACM. That is a fact! One of the main reasons wildlife has flurised so much is because the public has a stake in the game. They (the public) own the wildlife. That is where the majority of the "private dollars and investments" have come from."
No that is the private sector. The amount of money the government has payed into the wildlife trust is like comparing a flea to a dog. As for elk species being whiped out that has never happened. I was talking about three elk SUBSPECIES. One we are pretty sure was extinct before NACM came along, one we are unsure of when it went extinct and one we are pretty sure existed after the creation of NACM.
"Do you believe the land owner should own the wildlife that is on his/her land? If so that is the kings deer idea. Just saying..."
Some species yes and some species no. That is not the kings deer idea.
"I hope your day gets better boy."
I hope you learn how to read.
"Check your facts! To argue about something you have no idea about is crazy. In Utah 5% of the LE tags (10% of the sheep tags) are given to conservation organizations. That does not include the expo tags. In several instances they actually get more."
Oh I'm sorry I didn't know that all the deer tags in Utah are limited entry and that them and sheep are the only big game animals there. If you can't feel my sarcasm I am sorry because I am laying it on pretty thick. I have been talking about the entire system of mangement for Utah. Not just premium tags or LE tags.
"The elk species you are talking about were wippedout before the NACM. That is a fact! One of the main reasons wildlife has flurised so much is because the public has a stake in the game. They (the public) own the wildlife. That is where the majority of the "private dollars and investments" have come from."
No that is the private sector. The amount of money the government has payed into the wildlife trust is like comparing a flea to a dog. As for elk species being whiped out that has never happened. I was talking about three elk SUBSPECIES. One we are pretty sure was extinct before NACM came along, one we are unsure of when it went extinct and one we are pretty sure existed after the creation of NACM.
"Do you believe the land owner should own the wildlife that is on his/her land? If so that is the kings deer idea. Just saying..."
Some species yes and some species no. That is not the kings deer idea.
"I hope your day gets better boy."
I hope you learn how to read.
I absolutely agree with most of that jims but what they want is for them to bring an UNFAIR price. For that you need to allow them to be unfair... (the rules)
If all you haters could have your fantasy and Denny, Doyle, and Mike were killed in a firey plane crash tomorrow (since it's a fantasy crash I vote my mother-in-law in as pilot) next year at this time you will be bitchin' about exactly the same thing with new names in the blanks.
If you just adjust minor changes in aircraft rules, regional limitations, subcontract and sub-agency laws (good luck with that re-writing contract law 'cause of a dead deer!) You will get caught up in a never ending cycle of sticking your finger in the leak as the water (money) just finds another weak link to exploit in the dike.
This is pure money and politics the deer are just the vehicle, and whomever's ox gets gored is going to do a lot of squealing, and they have an inside track on all the comittees. (Money has a way of doing that).
I applaud your efforts down in Gunnison but you cannot enact significant change without ELIMINATING the tags. Making them valid in all hunting seasons with the same weapon restrictions all the "normal" hunters are under would have this effect, but watch the money disappear! And let the wailing begin... Not on their own behalf mind you...but for all the "good" they could do with it.
If all you haters could have your fantasy and Denny, Doyle, and Mike were killed in a firey plane crash tomorrow (since it's a fantasy crash I vote my mother-in-law in as pilot) next year at this time you will be bitchin' about exactly the same thing with new names in the blanks.
If you just adjust minor changes in aircraft rules, regional limitations, subcontract and sub-agency laws (good luck with that re-writing contract law 'cause of a dead deer!) You will get caught up in a never ending cycle of sticking your finger in the leak as the water (money) just finds another weak link to exploit in the dike.
This is pure money and politics the deer are just the vehicle, and whomever's ox gets gored is going to do a lot of squealing, and they have an inside track on all the comittees. (Money has a way of doing that).
I applaud your efforts down in Gunnison but you cannot enact significant change without ELIMINATING the tags. Making them valid in all hunting seasons with the same weapon restrictions all the "normal" hunters are under would have this effect, but watch the money disappear! And let the wailing begin... Not on their own behalf mind you...but for all the "good" they could do with it.
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-13 AT 12:21PM (MST)[p]"If all you haters could have your fantasy and Denny, Doyle, and Mike were killed in a firey plane crash tomorrow (since it's a fantasy crash I vote my mother-in-law in as pilot) next year at this time you will be bitchin' about exactly the same thing with new names in the blanks"
***You got that right and we should be bitchin about something that is just not right regardless of whoever is doing it. Keep the tags to a minimum and require the hunt be done during the regular hunting season for whereever they hunt the animal and many would not say anything. However, when they start flying aircraft and chasing animals with goon squads on the winter range way after an animal has successfully evaded all the other hunters it just isn't right no matter how much money the state gets from that tag. If these rich guys like Denny Austad are such enamored conservationists, why don't they just donate the money to the cause and not be so detrimental to ethical hunting!
***You got that right and we should be bitchin about something that is just not right regardless of whoever is doing it. Keep the tags to a minimum and require the hunt be done during the regular hunting season for whereever they hunt the animal and many would not say anything. However, when they start flying aircraft and chasing animals with goon squads on the winter range way after an animal has successfully evaded all the other hunters it just isn't right no matter how much money the state gets from that tag. If these rich guys like Denny Austad are such enamored conservationists, why don't they just donate the money to the cause and not be so detrimental to ethical hunting!
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-13 AT 02:36PM (MST)[p]I would venture a guess that most of the controversy with these tags and what takes place outside of the regular seasons would disappear if governor's tag holder were "restricted" to the same seasons as every hunter in Colorado! Do you think they would be flying planes, helicopters etc during the regular season with so many game wardens and hunters in the field?
I'm certain that these tags would bring in big $ even if "restricted" to hunting the regular seasons. Having the opportunity to hunt Colo bucks from September through Decemeber in every unit in the state is an incredible opportunity and priveledge. Colo annually produces many of the largest muley bucks on our Continent....there is no doubt in my mind these tags would still generate a healthy $ if they hunted only open season dates.
I would expect the difference in $ generated would be a drop in the bucket compared to the total amount ALL hunters generate to all the small towns and the CDOW if restricted to hunting open seasons.
I'm certain that these tags would bring in big $ even if "restricted" to hunting the regular seasons. Having the opportunity to hunt Colo bucks from September through Decemeber in every unit in the state is an incredible opportunity and priveledge. Colo annually produces many of the largest muley bucks on our Continent....there is no doubt in my mind these tags would still generate a healthy $ if they hunted only open season dates.
I would expect the difference in $ generated would be a drop in the bucket compared to the total amount ALL hunters generate to all the small towns and the CDOW if restricted to hunting open seasons.
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,537
+1 Jims
To me there are two seperate issues:
1)Govenor tags themselves
2) ethics/law breakers.
The two issues are not one, even though recent history could be used to support that point of view.
The landower voucher issue is 1000 times more impacting to us as hunters than a few governors tags.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
To me there are two seperate issues:
1)Govenor tags themselves
2) ethics/law breakers.
The two issues are not one, even though recent history could be used to support that point of view.
The landower voucher issue is 1000 times more impacting to us as hunters than a few governors tags.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
ColoOak,
Is that meeting in Eagle on the 14th going to be open to the public? I hope your group is able to make some headway on this very important issue and judging by most of the responses here it looks like you have quite a bit of support from the sportsmen's community. is there a way to get your petition set up for online signatures as I would sign it and I would guess many others would as well. This is larger than a Gunnison basin issue. Looking forward to hearing about what was discussed in your upcoming meeting.
Is that meeting in Eagle on the 14th going to be open to the public? I hope your group is able to make some headway on this very important issue and judging by most of the responses here it looks like you have quite a bit of support from the sportsmen's community. is there a way to get your petition set up for online signatures as I would sign it and I would guess many others would as well. This is larger than a Gunnison basin issue. Looking forward to hearing about what was discussed in your upcoming meeting.
4
4000fps
Guest
I wonder how the people from Utah would feel if a poacher from CO and his gang rolled into their state every winter and started violating road closures, flew helicopters, chased deer with snowmobiles, and then filed harrasment charges against locals anytime one of them reported the CRIMES?
This was a once a program with good intentions, it was meant to raise money for wildlife. Instead, everyone and their grandma exploited it as a way to put money into their own pockets.
This was a once a program with good intentions, it was meant to raise money for wildlife. Instead, everyone and their grandma exploited it as a way to put money into their own pockets.
elks96
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,799
I actually do not have a problem with the Governors tag set up. But I do have serious concerns about how the laws are being enforced or not. I hate the big money and the pressure that comes with the big bucks.
I am fine with limited hunting on the winter ranges. Really we are talking about very few tags. I do have a problem with what it has turned into. Finders Fees, guides across the state hoping to cash in, etc. I would prefer it to become something the public, hunters and outfitters can look at with pride. Right now when I see a buck in the hands of white toothed horse face all I feel is anger and resentment. Knowing that the only reason that buck was taken was for financial gain.
How to fix it? Go to all governors tags being raffled. Then make the hunter select only a single guide service. Eliminate finders fees, etc. Better yet make it DIY hunt only... But leave the season structure and tag structure as is...
I am fine with limited hunting on the winter ranges. Really we are talking about very few tags. I do have a problem with what it has turned into. Finders Fees, guides across the state hoping to cash in, etc. I would prefer it to become something the public, hunters and outfitters can look at with pride. Right now when I see a buck in the hands of white toothed horse face all I feel is anger and resentment. Knowing that the only reason that buck was taken was for financial gain.
How to fix it? Go to all governors tags being raffled. Then make the hunter select only a single guide service. Eliminate finders fees, etc. Better yet make it DIY hunt only... But leave the season structure and tag structure as is...
ColoradoOak
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,920
>ColoOak,
>
>Is that meeting in Eagle on
>the 14th going to be
>open to the public? I
>hope your group is able
>to make some headway on
>this very important issue and
>judging by most of the
>responses here it looks like
>you have quite a bit
>of support from the sportsmen's
>community. is there a way
>to get your petition set
>up for online signatures as
>I would sign it and
>I would guess many others
>would as well. This is
>larger than a Gunnison basin
>issue. Looking forward to hearing
>about what was discussed in
>your upcoming meeting.
I'm only posting the information here. I'm not a member of GWA. I intended to attend the Gunnison meeting until I realized it was for GWA only. I am certain the Eagle meeting is open to the public.
>
>Is that meeting in Eagle on
>the 14th going to be
>open to the public? I
>hope your group is able
>to make some headway on
>this very important issue and
>judging by most of the
>responses here it looks like
>you have quite a bit
>of support from the sportsmen's
>community. is there a way
>to get your petition set
>up for online signatures as
>I would sign it and
>I would guess many others
>would as well. This is
>larger than a Gunnison basin
>issue. Looking forward to hearing
>about what was discussed in
>your upcoming meeting.
I'm only posting the information here. I'm not a member of GWA. I intended to attend the Gunnison meeting until I realized it was for GWA only. I am certain the Eagle meeting is open to the public.
nontypical
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,198
The solution is simple.Use the same system Wyoming does.
Tomichi
Active Member
- Messages
- 639
Founder asked a while back if any of the problems are associated with Raffle winners or if All the ?problems? are with the Auction guys.
Well I don't get Huntin Fool but I heard that it hit the post office here today by dog sled and ?YES?
That first Eagle County Buck posted here was a raffle guy. Guess the ?Whole story is there?.
If anyone knows where the other raffle buck got killed I would appreciate a PM.
If anyone has details about the other Auction CMDA tag killed in Carbondale ditto the PM.
The Gunnison petition is doing well. I missed the West Elk Archers 3-D this Sunday but understand
That most if not all signed or have already signed.
Eagle County Guys? How are you doing with a petition? GIVE EM HELL on the 14th!
Things are looking good for the States Mule deer in 2014. Looking forward to the meeting the 4th.
I will keep folks posted.
Well I don't get Huntin Fool but I heard that it hit the post office here today by dog sled and ?YES?
That first Eagle County Buck posted here was a raffle guy. Guess the ?Whole story is there?.
If anyone knows where the other raffle buck got killed I would appreciate a PM.
If anyone has details about the other Auction CMDA tag killed in Carbondale ditto the PM.
The Gunnison petition is doing well. I missed the West Elk Archers 3-D this Sunday but understand
That most if not all signed or have already signed.
Eagle County Guys? How are you doing with a petition? GIVE EM HELL on the 14th!
Things are looking good for the States Mule deer in 2014. Looking forward to the meeting the 4th.
I will keep folks posted.
Snoopdogg
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,098
Just a follow up to post #2. This is what we have get to deal with here in California: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/02/28/5223747/state-must-overhaul-approach-to.html
Snoopdogg
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,098
>Sort of a one sided, slanted
>article with a lot of
>"facts" that were not backed
>by science and biological studies
>like she falsely stated!
It's a bullsh*t article is what it is, but these folks have money and get face time with politicians in this state. This gal and her type snowed the legislature (and public) to ban hound hunting here last year for bears and bobcats with these type of "facts."
Not trying to thread-jack, but merely following up on my first post.
>article with a lot of
>"facts" that were not backed
>by science and biological studies
>like she falsely stated!
It's a bullsh*t article is what it is, but these folks have money and get face time with politicians in this state. This gal and her type snowed the legislature (and public) to ban hound hunting here last year for bears and bobcats with these type of "facts."
Not trying to thread-jack, but merely following up on my first post.
C
cohntr6
Guest
Interesting...
Jeff
Jeff
theox
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,278
love how people say that the 250,000 tag is keeping our tag prices low. Come on! if there was 30000 tags sold every year they would have to rise 10 dollars to make 300,000 dollars! Im sick of the rich getting privileges to hunt when an how they want. RIDICULOUS
tx_packmule
Active Member
- Messages
- 805
>Though the North Amercian Conservation Model
>(NACM) may not be perfect,
>if you really want to
>end hunting as we known
>it, go ahead and privatize
>all the public lands in
>the west. Once "the kings"
>own all the land and
>the game, you will certainly
>see fewer hunting opportunites. This
>will lead to the loss
>of a heritage that many
>Americans use to justify gun
>ownership. Guess what happens next!!!
>If you doubt the importance
>of the NACM, check out
>Europe. Ask our European cousins
>how easy it is to
>hunt or even own a
>firearm. As we showed last
>year with the defeat of
>the SFW tag grab in
>Arizona, most hunters are smart
>enough to see the threat
>that turning our heritage and
>public resources into a private
>revenue generator pose.
Hunting is actually a booming business in my home state with 96% private vs. 4% public land. Costs depends on how well you want to actually manage the deer. However, if you want to see some horribly managed deer here, look no further than our national forests where the only thing being managed is the timber.
As for the Basin, nothing really constructive to say. Honestly though, is it just the gov tags the locals want cut or is it all purchased tags...b/c that's the vibe I get around town.
>(NACM) may not be perfect,
>if you really want to
>end hunting as we known
>it, go ahead and privatize
>all the public lands in
>the west. Once "the kings"
>own all the land and
>the game, you will certainly
>see fewer hunting opportunites. This
>will lead to the loss
>of a heritage that many
>Americans use to justify gun
>ownership. Guess what happens next!!!
>If you doubt the importance
>of the NACM, check out
>Europe. Ask our European cousins
>how easy it is to
>hunt or even own a
>firearm. As we showed last
>year with the defeat of
>the SFW tag grab in
>Arizona, most hunters are smart
>enough to see the threat
>that turning our heritage and
>public resources into a private
>revenue generator pose.
Hunting is actually a booming business in my home state with 96% private vs. 4% public land. Costs depends on how well you want to actually manage the deer. However, if you want to see some horribly managed deer here, look no further than our national forests where the only thing being managed is the timber.
As for the Basin, nothing really constructive to say. Honestly though, is it just the gov tags the locals want cut or is it all purchased tags...b/c that's the vibe I get around town.
Tomichi
Active Member
- Messages
- 639
Great meeting today in Gunnison.
The whole food chain of terrestrial staff was here; they were prepared, open and took notes.
The new Southwestern Regional Manager came over and most of our DWM?s were there with the Area Manager. They made it very clear that Season dates can be species specific.
The GWA met ahead of time and we were ready and stayed focused on the Mule Deer issue. We asked that the start and end dates for Colorado Governor Deer tags both auction and raffle be GMU specific.
Gov tag holders can't start hunting ahead of the regular seasons and cannot hunt a GMU after the regular season ends. Pretty simple really. The tag holders hunt any method of take and get the time in-between seasons. They can hunt the plains units that are open in December. This is still a VERY GOOD state wide Deer tag.
We were told there will be a staff issue paper on the mule deer season. What the season dates are will reflect the input from sportsmen.
I know we will address the CPW Commission at their monthly meeting in Gunnison in June.
Please check out the web site and make public comments to the commission at a meeting near you. I think they are in GJ in May, Walden in July and Montrose in September.
From the meeting today I think it is likely there will be a change of the GOV deer tag season dates. IF SPORTSMEN FOLLOW THROUGH State wide.
I also hope the conservation organizations? Board of Directors and executive directors, that receive revenue from these Tags, Have the integrity and transparency to poll their respective members on this issue rather than blindly drink the revenue cool aid. They are all listed on page 6 of the 2013 regs. If you are a member of any, let the BOD know your thoughts.
I hope the meeting on the 14th is well attended. The ball is rolling, now let's follow through.
Too all those who sent PM?s and phoned I will get back with you.
The whole food chain of terrestrial staff was here; they were prepared, open and took notes.
The new Southwestern Regional Manager came over and most of our DWM?s were there with the Area Manager. They made it very clear that Season dates can be species specific.
The GWA met ahead of time and we were ready and stayed focused on the Mule Deer issue. We asked that the start and end dates for Colorado Governor Deer tags both auction and raffle be GMU specific.
Gov tag holders can't start hunting ahead of the regular seasons and cannot hunt a GMU after the regular season ends. Pretty simple really. The tag holders hunt any method of take and get the time in-between seasons. They can hunt the plains units that are open in December. This is still a VERY GOOD state wide Deer tag.
We were told there will be a staff issue paper on the mule deer season. What the season dates are will reflect the input from sportsmen.
I know we will address the CPW Commission at their monthly meeting in Gunnison in June.
Please check out the web site and make public comments to the commission at a meeting near you. I think they are in GJ in May, Walden in July and Montrose in September.
From the meeting today I think it is likely there will be a change of the GOV deer tag season dates. IF SPORTSMEN FOLLOW THROUGH State wide.
I also hope the conservation organizations? Board of Directors and executive directors, that receive revenue from these Tags, Have the integrity and transparency to poll their respective members on this issue rather than blindly drink the revenue cool aid. They are all listed on page 6 of the 2013 regs. If you are a member of any, let the BOD know your thoughts.
I hope the meeting on the 14th is well attended. The ball is rolling, now let's follow through.
Too all those who sent PM?s and phoned I will get back with you.
YBO
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,185
Why was the season shortened from the middle of Jan to Dec 31st about 10-12 years ago? Also, the new proposed Open Zone tags will bring in considerable less than a true Gov tag. Look at other states that have Open Zone and True Gov tags. They will bring in way less. Any wagers? Why purchase a 20K new Open Gov tag when you can pick up a couple LO tags for less?
S
steep_n_deep
Guest
Hey guys.. Is the meeting in Eagle still 6pm at the fairgrounds this Thurs the 14th? And still open to public? I will be traveling about 3 1/2 hrs to get there and looking forward to it!!
See ya
Ray
See ya
Ray
S
steep_n_deep
Guest
BTW.
I know how everyone looks at # of posts on here. Haven't posted in a long time so Brian had to reset my password and the prior post #s were deleted. Same username tho. Have hunted the area my whole life and need to see things move in a positive direction. PM me if needed.
See Ya
Ray
I know how everyone looks at # of posts on here. Haven't posted in a long time so Brian had to reset my password and the prior post #s were deleted. Same username tho. Have hunted the area my whole life and need to see things move in a positive direction. PM me if needed.
See Ya
Ray
ColoradoOak
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,920
Yes, the meeting will be at the time and place listed above.
March 14, 6pm-8pm
Eagle Fairgrounds Exhibition Hall
March 14, 6pm-8pm
Eagle Fairgrounds Exhibition Hall
ColoradoOak
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,920
>So...again,why was the season shortened about
>10 years ago from the
>middle of Jan to Dec
>31st? Anyone?
I give up. Why?
>10 years ago from the
>middle of Jan to Dec
>31st? Anyone?
I give up. Why?
ColoradoOak
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,920
About 35 people (including YBO) at the meeting tonight, plus many CPW. It seems that the concerns of the crowd were well-received.
4
4000fps
Guest
Meeting went well. Little disheartening that the DOW is conceding defeat with regards to mule deer numbers. Even stating that eliminating doe tags or the 4th season would even matter at this point. They have decided unit 44 is toast regardless so why bother.
My buddy steep n deep (Ray) went to the meeting last night, said some of thec same things. We started hunting the area in the mid seventies and have discussed the deer problems at lenghth. Just a few personal opinions the gov tags themselves aren't really an issue with me as long as these guys do things leagally. I do think that once a buck is killed that unit should be closed to all other governor and sportsmans tags that year. Personally I think landowner tags are a much bigger issue they should only be valid on private property.Don't know if this states DOW really cares about much but money......Van
ColoradoOak
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,920
Well now we know a little more about you. Sorry, I mixed you up with steep_n_deep.ColoradoOak
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,920
Yes, it was brought up. It was because of people's distaste for chasing deer around on winter range.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,859
"Meeting went well. Little disheartening that the DOW is conceding defeat with regards to mule deer numbers. Even stating that eliminating doe tags or the 4th season would even matter at this point. They have decided unit 44 is toast regardless so why bother."
This is the outcome of people arguing over who kills the last mule deer instead of actually being conservationists. Hows that NACM working for you now?
This is the outcome of people arguing over who kills the last mule deer instead of actually being conservationists. Hows that NACM working for you now?
4
4000fps
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-13 AT 09:25AM (MST)[p]I wouldn't call some fat ass sitting in a plywood box staring at a corn feeder a conservationist. Nothing worse than the TX wildlife model.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,859
"I wouldn't call some fat ass sitting in a plywood box staring at a corn feeder a conservationist."
You mean the guy that will probably have more deer and more opportunity than you next year????? That man you despise does more for wildlife in a year than you will do in a lifetime.
"Nothing worse than the TX wildlife model."
Really??? According to yall its the NACM. The same wildlife model you are using. Are you saying Texas does not operate under the NACM? Who "owns" those deer under the fatass' feeder?
You mean the guy that will probably have more deer and more opportunity than you next year????? That man you despise does more for wildlife in a year than you will do in a lifetime.
"Nothing worse than the TX wildlife model."
Really??? According to yall its the NACM. The same wildlife model you are using. Are you saying Texas does not operate under the NACM? Who "owns" those deer under the fatass' feeder?
4
4000fps
Guest
Might as well get some camo that looks like a pile of corn. Between that and the high fence, sounds like a great "hunt."
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,859
"Might as well get some camo that looks like a pile of corn. Between that and the high fence, sounds like a great "hunt.""
See this is where you are confused. You believe the amount of challenge in a hunt is what makes you a conservationist or not. Hunt or no hunt at all that has very little to do with being a conservationist.
I understand you hate every one that doesn't hunt exactly to your code of ethics or has more money than you do, but that doesn't mean that they aren't doing a great job at conservation.
See this is where you are confused. You believe the amount of challenge in a hunt is what makes you a conservationist or not. Hunt or no hunt at all that has very little to do with being a conservationist.
I understand you hate every one that doesn't hunt exactly to your code of ethics or has more money than you do, but that doesn't mean that they aren't doing a great job at conservation.
S
steep_n_deep
Guest
Tristate:
This was NOT a meeting about who will kill the last deer but a meeting attended by a group of well informed, concerned, dedicated and genuine SPORTSMAN (look up in dictionary for meaning if needed for ya) which by looking at the average age there and given the current PP to draw, most will only draw the tag 1-2 more times in their life if lucky!! Seemed to me (and I didn't know anybody there as I drove 3 1/2 hrs to attend) that these guys and gals were more concerned about the deer we care about and the way they are hunted than about the next tag drawn.. And don't give me the blah blah about not caring about a tag... we all want to hunt... it just goes beyond that.
ALOT of the comments and suggestions made would cost everybody in that room some hunting opportunities.
This is what conservationist do... at least on PUBLIC ground.
We have bigger issues ahead of us... a little more pressing than where to place the next corn feeder, tower stand, trail cam, food plot and whatever other BS it takes for you to kill an animal.
It's Not about how hard the hunt has to be for us either because our EASIEST day of hunting puts to shame the HARDEST day of hunting you probably ever will have.
This will not be an easy task but judging by what I heard and saw we will work at this as long as needed!!
To everyone there I had the opportunity to meet..Thanks!!
Now fire away with the insults and riveting comments... we all await!!
This was NOT a meeting about who will kill the last deer but a meeting attended by a group of well informed, concerned, dedicated and genuine SPORTSMAN (look up in dictionary for meaning if needed for ya) which by looking at the average age there and given the current PP to draw, most will only draw the tag 1-2 more times in their life if lucky!! Seemed to me (and I didn't know anybody there as I drove 3 1/2 hrs to attend) that these guys and gals were more concerned about the deer we care about and the way they are hunted than about the next tag drawn.. And don't give me the blah blah about not caring about a tag... we all want to hunt... it just goes beyond that.
ALOT of the comments and suggestions made would cost everybody in that room some hunting opportunities.
This is what conservationist do... at least on PUBLIC ground.
We have bigger issues ahead of us... a little more pressing than where to place the next corn feeder, tower stand, trail cam, food plot and whatever other BS it takes for you to kill an animal.
It's Not about how hard the hunt has to be for us either because our EASIEST day of hunting puts to shame the HARDEST day of hunting you probably ever will have.
This will not be an easy task but judging by what I heard and saw we will work at this as long as needed!!
To everyone there I had the opportunity to meet..Thanks!!
Now fire away with the insults and riveting comments... we all await!!
>Tristate:
>This was NOT a meeting about
>who will kill the last
>deer but a meeting attended
>by a group of well
>informed, concerned, dedicated and genuine
>SPORTSMAN (look up in dictionary
>for meaning if needed for
>ya) which by looking at
>the average age there and
>given the current PP to
>draw, most will only draw
>the tag 1-2 more times
>in their life if lucky!!
>Seemed to me (and I
>didn't know anybody there as
>I drove 3 1/2 hrs
>to attend) that these guys
>and gals were more concerned
>about the deer we care
>about and the way they
>are hunted than about the
>next tag drawn.. And don't
>give me the blah blah
>about not caring about a
>tag... we all want to
>hunt... it just goes beyond
>that.
>ALOT of the comments and suggestions
>made would cost everybody in
>that room some hunting opportunities.
>
>This is what conservationist do... at
>least on PUBLIC ground.
>We have bigger issues ahead of
>us... a little more pressing
>than where to place the
>next corn feeder, tower stand,
>trail cam, food plot and
>whatever other BS it takes
>for you to kill an
>animal.
>It's Not about how hard the
>hunt has to be for
>us either because our EASIEST
>day of hunting puts to
>shame the HARDEST day of
>hunting you probably ever will
>have.
>This will not be an easy
>task but judging by what
>I heard and saw we
>will work at this as
>long as needed!!
>To everyone there I had the
>opportunity to meet..Thanks!!
>Now fire away with the insults
>and riveting comments... we all
>await!!
Well Said
>This was NOT a meeting about
>who will kill the last
>deer but a meeting attended
>by a group of well
>informed, concerned, dedicated and genuine
>SPORTSMAN (look up in dictionary
>for meaning if needed for
>ya) which by looking at
>the average age there and
>given the current PP to
>draw, most will only draw
>the tag 1-2 more times
>in their life if lucky!!
>Seemed to me (and I
>didn't know anybody there as
>I drove 3 1/2 hrs
>to attend) that these guys
>and gals were more concerned
>about the deer we care
>about and the way they
>are hunted than about the
>next tag drawn.. And don't
>give me the blah blah
>about not caring about a
>tag... we all want to
>hunt... it just goes beyond
>that.
>ALOT of the comments and suggestions
>made would cost everybody in
>that room some hunting opportunities.
>
>This is what conservationist do... at
>least on PUBLIC ground.
>We have bigger issues ahead of
>us... a little more pressing
>than where to place the
>next corn feeder, tower stand,
>trail cam, food plot and
>whatever other BS it takes
>for you to kill an
>animal.
>It's Not about how hard the
>hunt has to be for
>us either because our EASIEST
>day of hunting puts to
>shame the HARDEST day of
>hunting you probably ever will
>have.
>This will not be an easy
>task but judging by what
>I heard and saw we
>will work at this as
>long as needed!!
>To everyone there I had the
>opportunity to meet..Thanks!!
>Now fire away with the insults
>and riveting comments... we all
>await!!
Well Said
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,859
"Tristate:
This was NOT a meeting about who will kill the last deer but a meeting attended by a group of well informed, concerned, dedicated and genuine SPORTSMAN (look up in dictionary for meaning if needed for ya) which by looking at the average age there and given the current PP to draw, most will only draw the tag 1-2 more times in their life if lucky!!"
All that blabbing and smack talking about dictionaries still doesn't mean, ITS AN ARGUEMENT OFVER WHO GETS TO KILL WHAT! Whehter a governor tag holder kills his buck on winter range or whether he gets to kill it somewhere else IT IS STILL ONE DEAD DEER! It doesn't change the dynamics of the management plan one iota and you know it.
" Seemed to me (and I didn't know anybody there as I drove 3 1/2 hrs to attend) that these guys and gals were more concerned about the deer we care about and the way they are hunted than about the next tag drawn.. And don't give me the blah blah about not caring about a tag... we all want to hunt... it just goes beyond that."
I am sure it does go beyond that. Some hate the fact that this hunter has money. Some hate that he uses hired help to kill a deer. Some hate that he uses machines that others don't have access to. There is a whole host of arguements by people who think telling another person how he can or can't kill a SINGLE deer is going to change the dynamics of their failed management plan.
"ALOT of the comments and suggestions made would cost everybody in that room some hunting opportunities.
This is what conservationist do... at least on PUBLIC ground."
What cost you hunting opportunities is your failed practices of the past. Not a dead deer on winter range.
"We have bigger issues ahead of us... a little more pressing than where to place the next corn feeder, tower stand, trail cam, food plot and whatever other BS it takes for you to kill an animal.
It's Not about how hard the hunt has to be for us either because our EASIEST day of hunting puts to shame the HARDEST day of hunting you probably ever will have.
This will not be an easy task but judging by what I heard and saw we will work at this as long as needed!!
To everyone there I had the opportunity to meet..Thanks!!
Now fire away with the insults and riveting comments... we all await!!"
I have never insulted you, but you decided to try and insult me by making assumptions about how I hunt. How I hunt still doesn't change the fact that this is an arguement over killing a deer.
This was NOT a meeting about who will kill the last deer but a meeting attended by a group of well informed, concerned, dedicated and genuine SPORTSMAN (look up in dictionary for meaning if needed for ya) which by looking at the average age there and given the current PP to draw, most will only draw the tag 1-2 more times in their life if lucky!!"
All that blabbing and smack talking about dictionaries still doesn't mean, ITS AN ARGUEMENT OFVER WHO GETS TO KILL WHAT! Whehter a governor tag holder kills his buck on winter range or whether he gets to kill it somewhere else IT IS STILL ONE DEAD DEER! It doesn't change the dynamics of the management plan one iota and you know it.
" Seemed to me (and I didn't know anybody there as I drove 3 1/2 hrs to attend) that these guys and gals were more concerned about the deer we care about and the way they are hunted than about the next tag drawn.. And don't give me the blah blah about not caring about a tag... we all want to hunt... it just goes beyond that."
I am sure it does go beyond that. Some hate the fact that this hunter has money. Some hate that he uses hired help to kill a deer. Some hate that he uses machines that others don't have access to. There is a whole host of arguements by people who think telling another person how he can or can't kill a SINGLE deer is going to change the dynamics of their failed management plan.
"ALOT of the comments and suggestions made would cost everybody in that room some hunting opportunities.
This is what conservationist do... at least on PUBLIC ground."
What cost you hunting opportunities is your failed practices of the past. Not a dead deer on winter range.
"We have bigger issues ahead of us... a little more pressing than where to place the next corn feeder, tower stand, trail cam, food plot and whatever other BS it takes for you to kill an animal.
It's Not about how hard the hunt has to be for us either because our EASIEST day of hunting puts to shame the HARDEST day of hunting you probably ever will have.
This will not be an easy task but judging by what I heard and saw we will work at this as long as needed!!
To everyone there I had the opportunity to meet..Thanks!!
Now fire away with the insults and riveting comments... we all await!!"
I have never insulted you, but you decided to try and insult me by making assumptions about how I hunt. How I hunt still doesn't change the fact that this is an arguement over killing a deer.
tx_packmule
Active Member
- Messages
- 805
Texans have more to think about that all that, I heard rumor that some of them have to strategize on how to break up land holdings to get the majority of landowner tags for some CO units.
