Antelope Island Deer Tag!
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PleaseDear
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Bessy is spending that PowerBall lottery winnings at a record pace!!
Robb
Robb
tradarcher
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Thats who i heard bought it.
Tristate
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$310,000! Thats awesome! I am very happy for Utah. Isn't it great when mule deer start having value.
As for whether it is available to everyone YOU BET IT IS. Any body in the USA can grow up to be anything they want to be and make money if they put forth effort and determination. What they do with that money is up to them. If they want a high priced deer tag then I say more power to them. The only people crying about fairness in this is the people who lacked the focus to do it themselves.
As for whether it is available to everyone YOU BET IT IS. Any body in the USA can grow up to be anything they want to be and make money if they put forth effort and determination. What they do with that money is up to them. If they want a high priced deer tag then I say more power to them. The only people crying about fairness in this is the people who lacked the focus to do it themselves.
D
DnkyPunch
Guest
Are these deer made of gold? I've neva shook a gold hand before...(if you listen to ESPN or NFL on satellite radio you get that joke)
Anyway that's insane for a deer or any other animal for that matter. I'm sure that'll fire some people up.
Anyway that's insane for a deer or any other animal for that matter. I'm sure that'll fire some people up.
desertbonehunter
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Man Tri, you sure are a dou$cher!!
Tristate
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"Yep, #1 DB on the site when he starts dissing Randy for something completely different that what was mentioned!!! Howver, that's his MO every time he posts!"
Actually I am not "dissing" Randy. I do not care if Randy wants to use helicopters to go hunting. I am "dissing" all the people here who bash one group for using them and give their cronies a pass just because they are on the same side as them on certian political battles.
Actually I am not "dissing" Randy. I do not care if Randy wants to use helicopters to go hunting. I am "dissing" all the people here who bash one group for using them and give their cronies a pass just because they are on the same side as them on certian political battles.
"Actually I am not "dissing" Randy. I do not care if Randy wants to use helicopters to go hunting. I am "dissing" all the people here who bash one group for using them and give their cronies a pass just because they are on the same side as them on certian political battles."
***Actually you're doing exactly that and stretching things as always to suit your purpose Mr. #1 DB! Randy merely got dropped off to hunt a landlocked piece of BLM land that one of your great property owners wouldn't allow access too by land. That's a far cry from unethically using one to spot game, call in a crew on an animal they found with it, and then watch it until the hired gun arrived to shoot it on one of of your top dollar tags! Don't say that wasn't the case either because that's exactly what transpired on that CO buck and why people are up in arms about it. Also, don't even dare intimate that's ethical compared to the ethical DIY hunts that Randy does.
***Actually you're doing exactly that and stretching things as always to suit your purpose Mr. #1 DB! Randy merely got dropped off to hunt a landlocked piece of BLM land that one of your great property owners wouldn't allow access too by land. That's a far cry from unethically using one to spot game, call in a crew on an animal they found with it, and then watch it until the hired gun arrived to shoot it on one of of your top dollar tags! Don't say that wasn't the case either because that's exactly what transpired on that CO buck and why people are up in arms about it. Also, don't even dare intimate that's ethical compared to the ethical DIY hunts that Randy does.
What I would like to know is, how much of that 310K for a publically owned game animal goes back into the actual wildlife and how much goes to linning someone's pockets?
In reguards to using an aircraft to access hunting lands. More power to Randy. No differnt than someone using quads, horses, trucks to access hunting grounds. Just a means of transportation if used in a legal/ethcial fashion. No differnt than hunters flying into the Frank Church of Idaho, or flying into places in Alaska or Canada to go hunting or fishing.
In reguards to using an aircraft to access hunting lands. More power to Randy. No differnt than someone using quads, horses, trucks to access hunting grounds. Just a means of transportation if used in a legal/ethcial fashion. No differnt than hunters flying into the Frank Church of Idaho, or flying into places in Alaska or Canada to go hunting or fishing.
beech18---We all know that, but that's the kind of BS that #1DB puts out when it's a completely different situation and he feels the need to get his 2 cents in. If he comes back with anything else similar to what he already posted, it will just prove my point better.
Tristate
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"***Actually you're doing exactly that and stretching things as always to suit your purpose Mr. #1 DB! Randy merely got dropped off to hunt a landlocked piece of BLM land that one of your great property owners wouldn't allow access too by land."
Oh I get it. Using a helicopter to drop you off near the game is much better than having a pilot tell you where he has seen game and then you using some other method to get into the hunting area. Rrrrrrriiiight..
" That's a far cry from unethically using one to spot game, call in a crew on an animal they found with it, and then watch it until the hired gun arrived to shoot it on one of of your top dollar tags!"
So that is the difference. How much the tag costs makes helicopter usage ethical or unethical. Now I get it.
" Don't say that wasn't the case either because that's exactly what transpired on that CO buck and why people are up in arms about it."
Actually I don't think anyone hired a gun to kill the deer. I am pretty sure the tag owner shot the deer.
"Also, don't even dare intimate that's ethical compared to the ethical DIY hunts that Randy does."
I really don't know what this sentence means.
Oh I get it. Using a helicopter to drop you off near the game is much better than having a pilot tell you where he has seen game and then you using some other method to get into the hunting area. Rrrrrrriiiight..
" That's a far cry from unethically using one to spot game, call in a crew on an animal they found with it, and then watch it until the hired gun arrived to shoot it on one of of your top dollar tags!"
So that is the difference. How much the tag costs makes helicopter usage ethical or unethical. Now I get it.
" Don't say that wasn't the case either because that's exactly what transpired on that CO buck and why people are up in arms about it."
Actually I don't think anyone hired a gun to kill the deer. I am pretty sure the tag owner shot the deer.
"Also, don't even dare intimate that's ethical compared to the ethical DIY hunts that Randy does."
I really don't know what this sentence means.
Tristate
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"What I would like to know is, how much of that 310K for a publically owned game animal goes back into the actual wildlife and how much goes to linning someone's pockets?"
I think you should be able to know that also.
"In reguards to using an aircraft to access hunting lands. More power to Randy. No differnt than someone using quads, horses, trucks to access hunting grounds. Just a means of transportation if used in a legal/ethcial fashion. No differnt than hunters flying into the Frank Church of Idaho, or flying into places in Alaska or Canada to go hunting or fishing."
No body has come on here saying Randy's use of a helicopter is a bad thing. Topgun is just a little sensitive about being a hypocrite.
I think you should be able to know that also.
"In reguards to using an aircraft to access hunting lands. More power to Randy. No differnt than someone using quads, horses, trucks to access hunting grounds. Just a means of transportation if used in a legal/ethcial fashion. No differnt than hunters flying into the Frank Church of Idaho, or flying into places in Alaska or Canada to go hunting or fishing."
No body has come on here saying Randy's use of a helicopter is a bad thing. Topgun is just a little sensitive about being a hypocrite.
stillhunterman
Active Member
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I knew it was pricey to hunt a petting zoo, but that seems a bit out of touch... Well, at least 90% will go to fix up the zoo a bit.
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
elkassassin
Long Time Member
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>Bessy is spending that PowerBall lottery
>winnings at a record pace!!
>
>
>Robb
Well Robb!
Thought that 300.00 I won was gonna get me something!
When I yelled out 295.00 they thought I meant 295K!
Somebody Owes Me!
We can Skin a Buck,We can run a Trout Line, and a Country Boy Can Survive!
>winnings at a record pace!!
>
>
>Robb
Well Robb!
Thought that 300.00 I won was gonna get me something!
When I yelled out 295.00 they thought I meant 295K!
Somebody Owes Me!
We can Skin a Buck,We can run a Trout Line, and a Country Boy Can Survive!
hossblur
Long Time Member
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- 10,500
>I knew it was pricey to
>hunt a petting zoo, but
>that seems a bit out
>of touch... Well, at
>least 90% will go to
>fix up the zoo a
>bit.
>
>
>www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
Yeah, thats great, Ol Denny is a true modern conservationist!! Drop that change to "improve the habitat" for deer, then buy the tag every year. Guess 300k is the price point to have your own private island you can hunt by yourself(for at least 5 days), during the rut. Awesome to see the improvement Denny is paying for to benefit......well to benefit Denny. Whatever would those deer do without SFW's tag and golden boy? Oh yeah, the deer were there thriving without him and them. Denny will be in 1/2 a million dollars for a deer(after he pays Doyle to move to Syracuse), YUP BOYS, hunting in the west IS NOTHING LIKE HUNTING IN EUROPE!!!
Who knew the Oak Ridge Boys were so motivational??
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>hunt a petting zoo, but
>that seems a bit out
>of touch... Well, at
>least 90% will go to
>fix up the zoo a
>bit.
>
>
>www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
Yeah, thats great, Ol Denny is a true modern conservationist!! Drop that change to "improve the habitat" for deer, then buy the tag every year. Guess 300k is the price point to have your own private island you can hunt by yourself(for at least 5 days), during the rut. Awesome to see the improvement Denny is paying for to benefit......well to benefit Denny. Whatever would those deer do without SFW's tag and golden boy? Oh yeah, the deer were there thriving without him and them. Denny will be in 1/2 a million dollars for a deer(after he pays Doyle to move to Syracuse), YUP BOYS, hunting in the west IS NOTHING LIKE HUNTING IN EUROPE!!!
Who knew the Oak Ridge Boys were so motivational??
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
bowhunt
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-13 AT 09:02PM (MST)[p]The money for this tag does not go to habitat improvement in the state.
The money goes to the general fund for Antelope Island State Park.
They can use it how they want. Pays some salaries so they can do bird studies, and employ a tour guide.
310k, now that is just funny!
It really does make me laugh to think someone would spend that kind of money to hunt these deer. It is even funnier that he has a guide help...come on guys, no matter who you are, or what you believe, you have to chuckle a little over this.
I mean what do you say when someone comes to your house and you show them the mount...yes that one is 300k, I shot it in a State Park...it was a guided hunt, took over 30 minutes.
The money goes to the general fund for Antelope Island State Park.
They can use it how they want. Pays some salaries so they can do bird studies, and employ a tour guide.
310k, now that is just funny!
It really does make me laugh to think someone would spend that kind of money to hunt these deer. It is even funnier that he has a guide help...come on guys, no matter who you are, or what you believe, you have to chuckle a little over this.
I mean what do you say when someone comes to your house and you show them the mount...yes that one is 300k, I shot it in a State Park...it was a guided hunt, took over 30 minutes.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
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The Jimmy Johns Samich Guy!
We can Skin a Buck,We can run a Trout Line, and a Country Boy Can Survive!
We can Skin a Buck,We can run a Trout Line, and a Country Boy Can Survive!
Tristate
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"Yeah, thats great, Ol Denny is a true modern conservationist!! Drop that change to "improve the habitat" for deer, then buy the tag every year. Guess 300k is the price point to have your own private island you can hunt by yourself(for at least 5 days), during the rut. Awesome to see the improvement Denny is paying for to benefit......well to benefit Denny. Whatever would those deer do without SFW's tag and golden boy? Oh yeah, the deer were there thriving without him and them. Denny will be in 1/2 a million dollars for a deer(after he pays Doyle to move to Syracuse), YUP BOYS, hunting in the west IS NOTHING LIKE HUNTING IN EUROPE!!!"
Is it any diferent for where you hunt? You pay money for the tag you get. The difference is each time you put $100 you are securing your future to keep hunting a $100 deer herd. You don't want to put in any more money for your tag, but you want $300,000 deer for it.
Is it any diferent for where you hunt? You pay money for the tag you get. The difference is each time you put $100 you are securing your future to keep hunting a $100 deer herd. You don't want to put in any more money for your tag, but you want $300,000 deer for it.
hossblur
Long Time Member
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>"Yeah, thats great, Ol Denny is
>a true modern conservationist!! Drop
>that change to "improve the
>habitat" for deer, then buy
>the tag every year. Guess
>300k is the price point
>to have your own private
>island you can hunt by
>yourself(for at least 5 days),
>during the rut. Awesome to
>see the improvement Denny is
>paying for to benefit......well to
>benefit Denny. Whatever would those
>deer do without SFW's tag
>and golden boy? Oh yeah,
>the deer were there thriving
>without him and them. Denny
>will be in 1/2 a
>million dollars for a deer(after
>he pays Doyle to move
>to Syracuse), YUP BOYS, hunting
>in the west IS NOTHING
>LIKE HUNTING IN EUROPE!!!"
>
>
>Is it any diferent for where
>you hunt? You pay
>money for the tag you
>get. The difference is
>each time you put $100
>you are securing your future
>to keep hunting a $100
>deer herd. You don't
>want to put in any
>more money for your tag,
>but you want $300,000 deer
>for it.
Prostate, Antelope Island is 10 min from my house, and I can assure you that the deer on the island, are no more special than a deer anywhere else, and there isn't one alive worth 300k. I don't need to spend that kind of money to be noticed, my dad hugged me when I was a kid, don't need attention that bad. And NO, I don't want a 300k deer, that just gives bad ideas to my lovely state legislature
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>a true modern conservationist!! Drop
>that change to "improve the
>habitat" for deer, then buy
>the tag every year. Guess
>300k is the price point
>to have your own private
>island you can hunt by
>yourself(for at least 5 days),
>during the rut. Awesome to
>see the improvement Denny is
>paying for to benefit......well to
>benefit Denny. Whatever would those
>deer do without SFW's tag
>and golden boy? Oh yeah,
>the deer were there thriving
>without him and them. Denny
>will be in 1/2 a
>million dollars for a deer(after
>he pays Doyle to move
>to Syracuse), YUP BOYS, hunting
>in the west IS NOTHING
>LIKE HUNTING IN EUROPE!!!"
>
>
>Is it any diferent for where
>you hunt? You pay
>money for the tag you
>get. The difference is
>each time you put $100
>you are securing your future
>to keep hunting a $100
>deer herd. You don't
>want to put in any
>more money for your tag,
>but you want $300,000 deer
>for it.
Prostate, Antelope Island is 10 min from my house, and I can assure you that the deer on the island, are no more special than a deer anywhere else, and there isn't one alive worth 300k. I don't need to spend that kind of money to be noticed, my dad hugged me when I was a kid, don't need attention that bad. And NO, I don't want a 300k deer, that just gives bad ideas to my lovely state legislature
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
hossblur
Long Time Member
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- 10,500
>"can the money be used as
>a tax right off...? "
>
>
>***Nope, but it can probably be
>used as a tax write
>off. Sorry, but I
>just couldn't help myself!
ACTUALLY........ I don't know the present situation, but a few years back during the construction boom every contractor around was playing rockstar and throwing good money around at these banquets, and a lot of them claimed the hunting trips as buisness expenses. They always "bidding work". I would bet you dinner that Denny has some "buisness" in Utah that we needs to attend to thusly giving him a "right" off.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>a tax right off...? "
>
>
>***Nope, but it can probably be
>used as a tax write
>off. Sorry, but I
>just couldn't help myself!
ACTUALLY........ I don't know the present situation, but a few years back during the construction boom every contractor around was playing rockstar and throwing good money around at these banquets, and a lot of them claimed the hunting trips as buisness expenses. They always "bidding work". I would bet you dinner that Denny has some "buisness" in Utah that we needs to attend to thusly giving him a "right" off.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
Tax write off yes. But I am pretty sure Denny is not worried about a tax write off. Do I agree with this..No because any body could go to that Island and kill a great buck. I do believe the reason for the guide is to kill the highest scoring buck on the island which Doyle will find.
BrowningRage
Long Time Member
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I think I finally have a grasp of where I stand on this hunt...
I dont fault anyone for success (unless that success is morally or legally wrong-which I don't believe Denny has done-unless you know better and would like to enlighten me). I dont fault anyone for using that success to do what they love.
Generally my problem with these hunts is that a private group gets a big chunk of the money- the AI tag does not do that so far as I understand. So that part I dont have a problem with.
I think the majority of us dont like it because looking at $310,000, we understand what a life changing amount of money that is for any of us... And though killing a big deer could be life changing- what if you are just killing that same deer over and over every year..?? Suddenly, it doesn't seem so life changing. In fact, it almost seems mundane to do it every year. So it is upsetting that a person has taken something that so many of us would consider life changing (killing a GIANT deer) and turned it into his routine... The same goes for the amount of dough he drops to do it. Its always a heartbreaking when something exceptional- because the norm.
Remember when nobody could run a mile in under 4 minutes..?? Or when nobody could run 100m in under 10 seconds..?? Its a little heartbreaking to think that when those milestones were met, it was unbelievable... But now, modernly, they are laughable achievements...
That is why it feels like hunts like this are changing the sport- because what was once held in high regard, is now just routine...
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
I dont fault anyone for success (unless that success is morally or legally wrong-which I don't believe Denny has done-unless you know better and would like to enlighten me). I dont fault anyone for using that success to do what they love.
Generally my problem with these hunts is that a private group gets a big chunk of the money- the AI tag does not do that so far as I understand. So that part I dont have a problem with.
I think the majority of us dont like it because looking at $310,000, we understand what a life changing amount of money that is for any of us... And though killing a big deer could be life changing- what if you are just killing that same deer over and over every year..?? Suddenly, it doesn't seem so life changing. In fact, it almost seems mundane to do it every year. So it is upsetting that a person has taken something that so many of us would consider life changing (killing a GIANT deer) and turned it into his routine... The same goes for the amount of dough he drops to do it. Its always a heartbreaking when something exceptional- because the norm.
Remember when nobody could run a mile in under 4 minutes..?? Or when nobody could run 100m in under 10 seconds..?? Its a little heartbreaking to think that when those milestones were met, it was unbelievable... But now, modernly, they are laughable achievements...
That is why it feels like hunts like this are changing the sport- because what was once held in high regard, is now just routine...
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
Tristate
Long Time Member
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- 8,850
"I think I finally have a grasp of where I stand on this hunt...
I dont fault anyone for success (unless that success is morally or legally wrong-which I don't believe Denny has done-unless you know better and would like to enlighten me). I dont fault anyone for using that success to do what they love.
Generally my problem with these hunts is that a private group gets a big chunk of the money- the AI tag does not do that so far as I understand. So that part I dont have a problem with."
Pretty easy going outlook.
" I think the majority of us dont like it because looking at $310,000, we understand what a life changing amount of money that is for any of us... And though killing a big deer could be life changing- what if you are just killing that same deer over and over every year..?? Suddenly, it doesn't seem so life changing. In fact, it almost seems mundane to do it every year. So it is upsetting that a person has taken something that so many of us would consider life changing (killing a GIANT deer) and turned it into his routine... The same goes for the amount of dough he drops to do it. Its always a heartbreaking when something exceptional- because the norm."
Thats where it starts to sound a little bit like class warfare. I know what you are saying and believe me I would love having 310k at my disposal right now. I could get a lot of big monkeys off of my back. But its still that guys money to constructively use, or flatt out piss away, at whatever rate he chooses. Thats part of the greatness of America.
" Remember when nobody could run a mile in under 4 minutes..?? Or when nobody could run 100m in under 10 seconds..?? Its a little heartbreaking to think that when those milestones were met, it was unbelievable... But now, modernly, they are laughable achievements...
That is why it feels like hunts like this are changing the sport- because what was once held in high regard, is now just routine..."
Maybe the money is just routine now, but the quality of deer are fewer and farther between. Fifty years ago to kill a 180 inch deer wasn't that big of a deal. In current times I have never set eyes on 180 inches of antler during a hunting season when I had a tag.
I dont fault anyone for success (unless that success is morally or legally wrong-which I don't believe Denny has done-unless you know better and would like to enlighten me). I dont fault anyone for using that success to do what they love.
Generally my problem with these hunts is that a private group gets a big chunk of the money- the AI tag does not do that so far as I understand. So that part I dont have a problem with."
Pretty easy going outlook.
" I think the majority of us dont like it because looking at $310,000, we understand what a life changing amount of money that is for any of us... And though killing a big deer could be life changing- what if you are just killing that same deer over and over every year..?? Suddenly, it doesn't seem so life changing. In fact, it almost seems mundane to do it every year. So it is upsetting that a person has taken something that so many of us would consider life changing (killing a GIANT deer) and turned it into his routine... The same goes for the amount of dough he drops to do it. Its always a heartbreaking when something exceptional- because the norm."
Thats where it starts to sound a little bit like class warfare. I know what you are saying and believe me I would love having 310k at my disposal right now. I could get a lot of big monkeys off of my back. But its still that guys money to constructively use, or flatt out piss away, at whatever rate he chooses. Thats part of the greatness of America.
" Remember when nobody could run a mile in under 4 minutes..?? Or when nobody could run 100m in under 10 seconds..?? Its a little heartbreaking to think that when those milestones were met, it was unbelievable... But now, modernly, they are laughable achievements...
That is why it feels like hunts like this are changing the sport- because what was once held in high regard, is now just routine..."
Maybe the money is just routine now, but the quality of deer are fewer and farther between. Fifty years ago to kill a 180 inch deer wasn't that big of a deal. In current times I have never set eyes on 180 inches of antler during a hunting season when I had a tag.
BrowningRage
Long Time Member
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- 4,438
Thanks for the response Tri...
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
stillhunterman
Active Member
- Messages
- 608
I can understand your comments Browning, and even agree with some. I imagine there are a few with those same thoughts. As far as the big chunk of money is concerned, I guess that depends on what you mean by "big chunk"; the org that auctioned the tag retains 10%, which in the case of the mule deer tag, it's a cool 31K+, in addition to the interest made on the full amount until the funds are released to the island account. Seems like a pretty good chunk to me.
Also, I don't really have a problem with those folks who have the cash to buy these types of hunts, it's their money to do with as they please. My concern is a bit more deep seeded than that. This hunt has been sought after and pushed hard to obtain for several years until, ultimately, political pressure/influence caused the STATE to decide to acquiesce, even against a 70% disapproval of the hunt from the general public. So what is really accomplished from this hunt? Not a whole lot, really.
The monies generated are mandated to go back into the island funds, with a good portion to go on the ground for habitat. Really? It does nothing to help improve the general mule deer plight here in the state, it simply goes towards improving the odds of growing more large bucks on the island to insure future big money tags ad nauseum. Any other ancillary benefits are minimal.
Personally, I think we should have some places for critters to roam and do their thing, without being exploited for whatever reason; a State Park kinda fits the bill don't you think?
I guess when all is done and said, this whole thing doesn't surprise me, as if fits the Utah model perfectly: Having private organizations with enough influence on the STATE to provide a wildlife management philosophy whereby the majority of financing for those orgs is derived from a public resource that not only insures their monetary solvency, but also insures their ability to propagate the same structure, over and over and over, instead of running their organizations from the funds derived from their membership that they purport to represent. Doesn't seem to portray the conservation missions of wildlife conservation organizations in a very positive light...
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
Also, I don't really have a problem with those folks who have the cash to buy these types of hunts, it's their money to do with as they please. My concern is a bit more deep seeded than that. This hunt has been sought after and pushed hard to obtain for several years until, ultimately, political pressure/influence caused the STATE to decide to acquiesce, even against a 70% disapproval of the hunt from the general public. So what is really accomplished from this hunt? Not a whole lot, really.
The monies generated are mandated to go back into the island funds, with a good portion to go on the ground for habitat. Really? It does nothing to help improve the general mule deer plight here in the state, it simply goes towards improving the odds of growing more large bucks on the island to insure future big money tags ad nauseum. Any other ancillary benefits are minimal.
Personally, I think we should have some places for critters to roam and do their thing, without being exploited for whatever reason; a State Park kinda fits the bill don't you think?
I guess when all is done and said, this whole thing doesn't surprise me, as if fits the Utah model perfectly: Having private organizations with enough influence on the STATE to provide a wildlife management philosophy whereby the majority of financing for those orgs is derived from a public resource that not only insures their monetary solvency, but also insures their ability to propagate the same structure, over and over and over, instead of running their organizations from the funds derived from their membership that they purport to represent. Doesn't seem to portray the conservation missions of wildlife conservation organizations in a very positive light...
www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org
Tristate
Long Time Member
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- 8,850
"The monies generated are mandated to go back into the island funds, with a good portion to go on the ground for habitat. Really? It does nothing to help improve the general mule deer plight here in the state, it simply goes towards improving the odds of growing more large bucks on the island to insure future big money tags ad nauseum. Any other ancillary benefits are minimal."
Maybe the state wanted the public to see a different wildlife plan on a minority scale before cramming it down every ones throats statewide. I am not saying this is the case but you could see the logic in that. Kind of a political thermometer of sorts. Maybe the next move is a plan for monitizing deer that could benefit the DNR as a whole.
Maybe the state wanted the public to see a different wildlife plan on a minority scale before cramming it down every ones throats statewide. I am not saying this is the case but you could see the logic in that. Kind of a political thermometer of sorts. Maybe the next move is a plan for monitizing deer that could benefit the DNR as a whole.
H
huntinco
Guest
I'm with tristate on this one. The tag is available to all..! Anyone in this country that put this as there top priority could obtain it...
Justin Richins
R&K Hunting Company Inc.
www.thehuntingcompany.com
Justin Richins
R&K Hunting Company Inc.
www.thehuntingcompany.com
4
4000fps
Guest
I am just glad that probably means he isn't coming to CO. That being said...I would get a lot more joy donating $310k to Children's Hospital than shooting ducks in a barrel.
BuckSkinner79
Member
- Messages
- 26
Big Money means Big Bucks, Sure ain't a little man's game anymore. Unreal!!
>I'm with tristate on this one.
> The tag is available
>to all..! Anyone in this
>country that put this as
>there top priority could obtain
>it...
>
>
>Justin Richins
>R&K Hunting Company Inc.
>www.thehuntingcompany.com
***You are kidding aren't you when you say available to all? I would expect a silly statement like that only from Smokestick, Tristate, or another Peay pawn! Are you one of the latter or maybe you just happened to leave the words "Anyone in this country THAT'S A MILLIONAIRE .....", LOL!
> The tag is available
>to all..! Anyone in this
>country that put this as
>there top priority could obtain
>it...
>
>
>Justin Richins
>R&K Hunting Company Inc.
>www.thehuntingcompany.com
***You are kidding aren't you when you say available to all? I would expect a silly statement like that only from Smokestick, Tristate, or another Peay pawn! Are you one of the latter or maybe you just happened to leave the words "Anyone in this country THAT'S A MILLIONAIRE .....", LOL!
YBO
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,185
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that there are two tags! One auction and one draw hunt for the general hunt. So...I guess you don't have to be a Gazillionaire to hunt the island. Also, Denny can NOT write off 310K on his taxes. If he tax rate is 40% he can only write off about 120K. Correct me is I'm wrong on both comments.
txhunter58
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,529
LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-13 AT 08:03PM (MST)[p]
First of all, you can only write off contributions to orgainzations that the IRS deems acceptable. If where the money goes is OK as such an organization, then he can do it.
Second, you can't write off the entire amount of something when you get something in return. You have to deduct what it is worth that you are buying, then "write off" the rest. For example, I attend a fund raiser for the local livestock show association every year and it is $50 per ticket, but the meal I receive is deemed to be worth $25, so I can only write off $25. I have no idea what the IRS would deem this tag worth? The regular price of the tag? If so, that is a joke.
But to answer your specific question, whatever the amount is that is legal to "write off" he CAN "write off" the entire amount. In other words he gets to subtract this entire amount from his taxable income. So, lets says he gets to "write off" $300,000, and he pays 40% income tax, he will pay $120,000 less in taxes because he didn't pay the 40% on that $300,000. But the "write off" was for $300,000
So, in the end, if he can legally write off $300,000, it actually ONLY costs him $190,000!!! What a deal!
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
First of all, you can only write off contributions to orgainzations that the IRS deems acceptable. If where the money goes is OK as such an organization, then he can do it.
Second, you can't write off the entire amount of something when you get something in return. You have to deduct what it is worth that you are buying, then "write off" the rest. For example, I attend a fund raiser for the local livestock show association every year and it is $50 per ticket, but the meal I receive is deemed to be worth $25, so I can only write off $25. I have no idea what the IRS would deem this tag worth? The regular price of the tag? If so, that is a joke.
But to answer your specific question, whatever the amount is that is legal to "write off" he CAN "write off" the entire amount. In other words he gets to subtract this entire amount from his taxable income. So, lets says he gets to "write off" $300,000, and he pays 40% income tax, he will pay $120,000 less in taxes because he didn't pay the 40% on that $300,000. But the "write off" was for $300,000
So, in the end, if he can legally write off $300,000, it actually ONLY costs him $190,000!!! What a deal!
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
billythekid
Active Member
- Messages
- 435
the only DB on this thread are the ones that rant and rave about unfair it is. so what if somebody wants to spend more than most make in 5 yrs. on a state park buck. heck, as far as i am concerned, i hope this creates a model and other state and national parks follow suit. it's a bunch of crap how much land was locked up to hunt access by jimmy carter and other tool bag president in the name of state and federal parks. for crying out loud, toppers and others, quite crying. what denny did in no way hurts you or others. shane
??????? Yeah, everyone has a chance at this tag. Some people make money the easy way, some people fall into it. Not everybody has a chance to spend money like a fool. If I had 310k to spend at a drop of a hat for hunting, it wouldnt be for 1 deer tag. The problem with these tags, is eventually the little guy will be kicked to the curb. Why would the state want to sale 70,000 deer tags to the general public when they can sale 9 tags at rediculous prices like this and make the same money, with less managment for deer. My grandfather always told me that some day hunting would only be for the rich, every year it keeps going that way. I dont care how anybody spends their money, its theirs. The problem is, the little guy that wants to help the deer through management programs and hard work, is going to be kicked to the curb one day, because his pockett book is not as big as the wealthy. This money doesnt grow more deer, its only growing greed and bigger bucks for the rich.
Looks like the state may need to change the name of the Island
Looks like the state may need to change the name of the Island
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
"***You are kidding aren't you when you say available to all? I would expect a silly statement like that only from Smokestick, Tristate, or another Peay pawn! Are you one of the latter or maybe you just happened to leave the words "Anyone in this country THAT'S A MILLIONAIRE .....", LOL!"
Don't worry. There is no substance here to support his views of class warfare. Only a personal attack.
Don't worry. There is no substance here to support his views of class warfare. Only a personal attack.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
"??????? Yeah, everyone has a chance at this tag. Some people make money the easy way, some people fall into it. Not everybody has a chance to spend money like a fool."
Some people make money the hard way and spend money like a fool. Quit worrying about MONEY. It is not the evil you are up against.
" If I had 310k to spend at a drop of a hat for hunting, it wouldnt be for 1 deer tag."
Thats one of the great things about America. You get to spend your money how you want. Even if it ain't hunting.
" The problem with these tags, is eventually the little guy will be kicked to the curb."
The tags aren't the reason little guys get kicked to the curb.
" Why would the state want to sale 70,000 deer tags to the general public when they can sale 9 tags at rediculous prices like this and make the same money, with less managment for deer."
FINALY SOMEONE HAS HIT A NAIL ON THE HEAD AROUND HERE! YES YES YES! Why would a government employee work himself to death to keep 100,000 customers happy and have his department broke when he can drive mule deer populations into the ground, drive up the demand and sell just a few tags and get the smae money generated. Why would he ever give you the time of day?
" My grandfather always told me that some day hunting would only be for the rich, every year it keeps going that way."
DO you think there are more or less rich people than when grandpa said that?
" I dont care how anybody spends their money, its theirs. The problem is, the little guy that wants to help the deer through management programs and hard work, is going to be kicked to the curb one day, because his pockett book is not as big as the wealthy."
No he will be kicked to the curb because for decades he and all of his friends never paid for what their deer were worth.
Some people make money the hard way and spend money like a fool. Quit worrying about MONEY. It is not the evil you are up against.
" If I had 310k to spend at a drop of a hat for hunting, it wouldnt be for 1 deer tag."
Thats one of the great things about America. You get to spend your money how you want. Even if it ain't hunting.
" The problem with these tags, is eventually the little guy will be kicked to the curb."
The tags aren't the reason little guys get kicked to the curb.
" Why would the state want to sale 70,000 deer tags to the general public when they can sale 9 tags at rediculous prices like this and make the same money, with less managment for deer."
FINALY SOMEONE HAS HIT A NAIL ON THE HEAD AROUND HERE! YES YES YES! Why would a government employee work himself to death to keep 100,000 customers happy and have his department broke when he can drive mule deer populations into the ground, drive up the demand and sell just a few tags and get the smae money generated. Why would he ever give you the time of day?
" My grandfather always told me that some day hunting would only be for the rich, every year it keeps going that way."
DO you think there are more or less rich people than when grandpa said that?
" I dont care how anybody spends their money, its theirs. The problem is, the little guy that wants to help the deer through management programs and hard work, is going to be kicked to the curb one day, because his pockett book is not as big as the wealthy."
No he will be kicked to the curb because for decades he and all of his friends never paid for what their deer were worth.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-13 AT 08:52AM (MST)[p]"Second, you can't write off the entire amount of something when you get something in return. You have to deduct what it is worth that you are buying, then "write off" the rest. For example, I attend a fund raiser for the local livestock show association every year and it is $50 per ticket, but the meal I receive is deemed to be worth $25, so I can only write off $25. I have no idea what the IRS would deem this tag worth? The regular price of the tag? If so, that is a joke."
Actually that is not how this works. The reason you can only right off the $25 instead of the $50 is an actual rule by the IRS stating that only half of meals can be written off. My CPA explained it that the IRS believes you should not be able to right off your own meals since technically you have to eat anyway. However they can go through and argue line by line nor can they prove that you ate with 1 other person or twenty. SO they make it easy on themselves, and lucrative just to stick to a %50 rule.
"But to answer your specific question, whatever the amount is that is legal to "write off" he CAN "write off" the entire amount. In other words he gets to subtract this entire amount from his taxable income. So, lets says he gets to "write off" $300,000, and he pays 40% income tax, he will pay $120,000 less in taxes because he didn't pay the 40% on that $300,000. But the "write off" was for $300,000
So, in the end, if he can legally write off $300,000, it actually ONLY costs him $190,000!!! What a deal!"
That isn't a very accurate statemnt either. Actually the deer tag cost him $310K. He wrote a check for it. And the government did not send him back a refund for %40 of the value. It is actually easier to think about this in man hours. Lets pick something similar in value to the $310K that you can not write off of your taxes. And lets imagine you and Denny here have the axact same income. So in imagination land you go by yourself a second recreational home. It cost $310K. You actually had to do 434K worth of labor to buy that home. Hypotheticaly speaking lets say that is 6 months salary for you. Well Denny only had to work 3.6 months to blow his $310K. So the tag didn't cost Denny 190K. Your recreational home cost you 434K.
Actually that is not how this works. The reason you can only right off the $25 instead of the $50 is an actual rule by the IRS stating that only half of meals can be written off. My CPA explained it that the IRS believes you should not be able to right off your own meals since technically you have to eat anyway. However they can go through and argue line by line nor can they prove that you ate with 1 other person or twenty. SO they make it easy on themselves, and lucrative just to stick to a %50 rule.
"But to answer your specific question, whatever the amount is that is legal to "write off" he CAN "write off" the entire amount. In other words he gets to subtract this entire amount from his taxable income. So, lets says he gets to "write off" $300,000, and he pays 40% income tax, he will pay $120,000 less in taxes because he didn't pay the 40% on that $300,000. But the "write off" was for $300,000
So, in the end, if he can legally write off $300,000, it actually ONLY costs him $190,000!!! What a deal!"
That isn't a very accurate statemnt either. Actually the deer tag cost him $310K. He wrote a check for it. And the government did not send him back a refund for %40 of the value. It is actually easier to think about this in man hours. Lets pick something similar in value to the $310K that you can not write off of your taxes. And lets imagine you and Denny here have the axact same income. So in imagination land you go by yourself a second recreational home. It cost $310K. You actually had to do 434K worth of labor to buy that home. Hypotheticaly speaking lets say that is 6 months salary for you. Well Denny only had to work 3.6 months to blow his $310K. So the tag didn't cost Denny 190K. Your recreational home cost you 434K.
4
4000fps
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-13 AT 08:59AM (MST)[p]Or maybe Tri-State should step away from the keyboard and twinkies and hit the gym.
4
4000fps
Guest
I saw your pic, you are doing something wrong. Maybe try and work out in the gym while there instead of watching Lifetime.
Funny, it all makes sense now that I hear you are a taxidermist. You are hoping one of these fatcats thay buys the tags brings you the business. The way you carry on here, it is a wonder even the working man brings you any work.
Funny, it all makes sense now that I hear you are a taxidermist. You are hoping one of these fatcats thay buys the tags brings you the business. The way you carry on here, it is a wonder even the working man brings you any work.
>the only DB on this thread
>are the ones that rant
>and rave about unfair it
>is. so what if
>somebody wants to spend more
>than most make in 5
>yrs. on a state park
>buck. heck, as far
>as i am concerned, i
>hope this creates a model
>and other state and national
>parks follow suit. it's
>a bunch of crap how
>much land was locked up
>to hunt access by jimmy
>carter and other tool bag
>president in the name of
>state and federal parks.
>for crying out loud, toppers
>and others, quite crying.
>what denny did in no
>way hurts you or others.
> shane
I dont have a problem with the money spent.....the problem is going to snowball. Read my post carefully.....The little guy is going to be weeded out of the picture. If we can sale tags for 300k each, how long will it take before we only sale 50 tags state wide? I know thats a low number, but if you can't see the possible outcome of big tag fees and low tag numbers equal the same money, then you need to take your blinders off. You dont think the state would like to manage for less deer and more money, and not have to deal with the general public always crying about the deer? If the state is going to get 100k-300k for each deer tag, why keep the general public in the system. We will start to lose more tags each year. Are you good with them takeing more tags away to make the money? So far the money that has been made off of these tags, HAS NOT MADE MORE DEER IN THE STATE, just bigger bucks for the rich.
I dont care how someone spends their money, but in the long run, if these high dollar tag fees take the general public out of the hunting, then what good are they?
>are the ones that rant
>and rave about unfair it
>is. so what if
>somebody wants to spend more
>than most make in 5
>yrs. on a state park
>buck. heck, as far
>as i am concerned, i
>hope this creates a model
>and other state and national
>parks follow suit. it's
>a bunch of crap how
>much land was locked up
>to hunt access by jimmy
>carter and other tool bag
>president in the name of
>state and federal parks.
>for crying out loud, toppers
>and others, quite crying.
>what denny did in no
>way hurts you or others.
> shane
I dont have a problem with the money spent.....the problem is going to snowball. Read my post carefully.....The little guy is going to be weeded out of the picture. If we can sale tags for 300k each, how long will it take before we only sale 50 tags state wide? I know thats a low number, but if you can't see the possible outcome of big tag fees and low tag numbers equal the same money, then you need to take your blinders off. You dont think the state would like to manage for less deer and more money, and not have to deal with the general public always crying about the deer? If the state is going to get 100k-300k for each deer tag, why keep the general public in the system. We will start to lose more tags each year. Are you good with them takeing more tags away to make the money? So far the money that has been made off of these tags, HAS NOT MADE MORE DEER IN THE STATE, just bigger bucks for the rich.
I dont care how someone spends their money, but in the long run, if these high dollar tag fees take the general public out of the hunting, then what good are they?
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
"I saw your pic, you are doing something wrong. Maybe try and work out in the gym while there instead of watching Lifetime."
You gotany thing else you want to poke fun at. I am ugly too. What grade are you in boy?
"Funny, it all makes sense now that I hear you are a taxidermist. You are hoping one of these fatcats thay buys the tags brings you the business. The way you carry on here, it is a wonder even the working man brings you any work."
I just pray for anyone to bring in a mount. It doesn't matter who you are it all costs the same money. If you bring me a little bitty mule deer the mount costs the exact same as a Antelope Island deer. Why would I care how much money the "fatcat" has. Apparently you missed the lesson about others people money being none of your business.
You gotany thing else you want to poke fun at. I am ugly too. What grade are you in boy?
"Funny, it all makes sense now that I hear you are a taxidermist. You are hoping one of these fatcats thay buys the tags brings you the business. The way you carry on here, it is a wonder even the working man brings you any work."
I just pray for anyone to bring in a mount. It doesn't matter who you are it all costs the same money. If you bring me a little bitty mule deer the mount costs the exact same as a Antelope Island deer. Why would I care how much money the "fatcat" has. Apparently you missed the lesson about others people money being none of your business.
bowhunt
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,191
I do not think it is unfair, I think it is STUPID.
Paying 300k to hunt a State Park, and then getting a guide is hilarious and DUMB.
I could care less if it is available, bought, auctioned, sold, given, sent to mars, etc.
Dumb to sell a tag in a Park, and even dumber to buy it and use a guide. IMHO
Paying 300k to hunt a State Park, and then getting a guide is hilarious and DUMB.
I could care less if it is available, bought, auctioned, sold, given, sent to mars, etc.
Dumb to sell a tag in a Park, and even dumber to buy it and use a guide. IMHO
why the "heck" are we talking about tax deductions ? are all you haters a bunch IRS tax collecting a-holes ? if denny wants to blow his money thats his right. mind your own business . deal with your own short comings and maybe some day you can hunt the island. this site is becoming a joke! so much hate and no real solutions . kinda a common theme today!!
YZF_88
Member
- Messages
- 68
You seriously this opportunity to take a jab at Randy? I gave Randy a hat slogan when we were discussing SFW issues last year. Don't remember if it was here or on Bowsite. Either way, it was "I blindly supported SFW and all I got was this ASS hat".
You should give him a call and buy one.
You should give him a call and buy one.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
"Is denny a taxidermist or are you talking about someone else?
I don't think he even knows MM's are so obsessed with his hunts."
Coondog, they are talking about me. I am a taxidermist. Much like these boys think it is their business to analyze income and taxes of anyone who spends more than them to go hunting, they have decided it is their business to analyze how much time I spend on my computer with how much time I should be pushing in shop.
I don't think he even knows MM's are so obsessed with his hunts."
Coondog, they are talking about me. I am a taxidermist. Much like these boys think it is their business to analyze income and taxes of anyone who spends more than them to go hunting, they have decided it is their business to analyze how much time I spend on my computer with how much time I should be pushing in shop.
BLooDTRaCKeR
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,743
As usual, a bunch of jealous cry babies whining about what someone can do with their own money. So what if 310,000 to Denny is like .31 cents is to the rest of us. If you don't like being on the short end of the stick, do something about it. This is America, you still have the freedom to make as much or as little money as you would like. Go figure it out and buy your chance at a dream buck. To all you Denny haters, this should be incentive enough to get off your lazy azz's and make enough money this year so you can out-bid him next year. The guy ain't getting any younger, might as well spend what he has.
Now go ahead and pound away, I've got thick skin and could care less about a bunch of faceless names on the internet...
Now go ahead and pound away, I've got thick skin and could care less about a bunch of faceless names on the internet...
nontypical
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,195
I couldn't care less how anyone spends their money.I don't care how they hunt-or how easy the hunt is(the older I get,the easier I like it!).
My only question is this:Why does the auction hunter get to hunt a week before the lottery hunter?
My only question is this:Why does the auction hunter get to hunt a week before the lottery hunter?
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
"My only question is this:Why does the auction hunter get to hunt a week before the lottery hunter?"
Because life isn't fair. Good god people can sure sound like a bunch of three year olds. First its the money. Then its who has help from guides. Then its fighting over the time of year. Now its "Who's first?". Nobody can just be greatful with winning one of the greatest tags in North America anymore. I seem to recall the lottery tag winner killed a hellavu buck. I can't tell you how many times I have lost a coin toss with a buddy for first shot and I still went home with an awesome trophy.
Because life isn't fair. Good god people can sure sound like a bunch of three year olds. First its the money. Then its who has help from guides. Then its fighting over the time of year. Now its "Who's first?". Nobody can just be greatful with winning one of the greatest tags in North America anymore. I seem to recall the lottery tag winner killed a hellavu buck. I can't tell you how many times I have lost a coin toss with a buddy for first shot and I still went home with an awesome trophy.
4
4000fps
Guest
You are missing the point. It has nothing to do with Denny's worth. The question is, where is the satisfaction with spending a third of a million dollars to shoot a deer? That is not even hunting what he does. He could get the same satisfaction from buying a rack on Ebay every year. And don't act like he is some great philanthropist, a lot better ways to serve the world with your excess money. If he was doing it simply because it felt good to donate to a good cause, he wouldn't need his face plastered all over the internet, videos and magazines. Not to mention seeing his name in "the book."
Snoopdogg
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,088
Oh hell, why not?here?s my opinion: Fundraising/governor?s tags?I'm good with them. Extremely limited number of tags, yet a HUGE return fiscally.
If it wasn?t a special tag (extended date with liberal hunting area)like 44 in CO, why spend that type of money if I can just build points or buy a guided landowner tag in the same area for less money? Wait a minute; a landowner tag; a guide; non-hunting support persons?that makes it unfair too, doesn't it?
My sarcastic point is that if it's not illegal, where's the beef? I'll never confuse Denny Austad (?)with Chuck Adams and I don't know him or his circumstances.
WARNING: Helicopter?s, trespassing, etc.?they have laws in place that regulate that aspect, right? Enforce what you have! Hell, I'm fighting against that type of mentality in California about others ethics/morals being applied to me under the guise of ?NEW and BETTER regulation? and it is eroding my hunting and gun rights as we speak!!!!! Don?t let that mentality creep into your state.
FYI ? When I draw a once-in-a-lifetime type tag, all of my hunting buddies are coming with me. Only difference is between Denny and myself is I won't be paying for my spotters, they all volunteer.
If it wasn?t a special tag (extended date with liberal hunting area)like 44 in CO, why spend that type of money if I can just build points or buy a guided landowner tag in the same area for less money? Wait a minute; a landowner tag; a guide; non-hunting support persons?that makes it unfair too, doesn't it?
My sarcastic point is that if it's not illegal, where's the beef? I'll never confuse Denny Austad (?)with Chuck Adams and I don't know him or his circumstances.
WARNING: Helicopter?s, trespassing, etc.?they have laws in place that regulate that aspect, right? Enforce what you have! Hell, I'm fighting against that type of mentality in California about others ethics/morals being applied to me under the guise of ?NEW and BETTER regulation? and it is eroding my hunting and gun rights as we speak!!!!! Don?t let that mentality creep into your state.
FYI ? When I draw a once-in-a-lifetime type tag, all of my hunting buddies are coming with me. Only difference is between Denny and myself is I won't be paying for my spotters, they all volunteer.
4
4000fps
Guest
Another disgusting fact that is being ignore. If the game agencies wouldn't have driven the mule deer herds to the brink of ruin, then the supply would be greater and tags like this wouldn't bring $10. There is a reason a hunt now commands $310k, because the opportunity is long gone, especially for the common man.
I bought my first CO deer tag in 1982 for $15. Over the counter, see deer all day...
I bought my first CO deer tag in 1982 for $15. Over the counter, see deer all day...
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
"You are missing the point."
No we aren't. We just don't agree with your point.
" It has nothing to do with Denny's worth."
OK. Then it has to do with telling other men what they can or can't do with their money and worth.
" The question is, where is the satisfaction with spending a third of a million dollars to shoot a deer?"
What is the satisfaction in demanding everyone must justify their spending habits to you?
" That is not even hunting what he does. He could get the same satisfaction from buying a rack on Ebay every year."
How do you know? Maybe his greatest joy is making snow angels next to a dead deer. Why worry about it?
" And don't act like he is some great philanthropist, a lot better ways to serve the world with your excess money."
Who nows what he does with the rest of his money. One more thing that is none of our damn business.
" If he was doing it simply because it felt good to donate to a good cause, he wouldn't need his face plastered all over the internet, videos and magazines. Not to mention seeing his name in "the book.""
You mean doing exactly what a lot of us here on this forum do. Every year I enjoy looking at the pictures people post of themselves and friends with their dead trophy. Doesn't make them bad people.
No we aren't. We just don't agree with your point.
" It has nothing to do with Denny's worth."
OK. Then it has to do with telling other men what they can or can't do with their money and worth.
" The question is, where is the satisfaction with spending a third of a million dollars to shoot a deer?"
What is the satisfaction in demanding everyone must justify their spending habits to you?
" That is not even hunting what he does. He could get the same satisfaction from buying a rack on Ebay every year."
How do you know? Maybe his greatest joy is making snow angels next to a dead deer. Why worry about it?
" And don't act like he is some great philanthropist, a lot better ways to serve the world with your excess money."
Who nows what he does with the rest of his money. One more thing that is none of our damn business.
" If he was doing it simply because it felt good to donate to a good cause, he wouldn't need his face plastered all over the internet, videos and magazines. Not to mention seeing his name in "the book.""
You mean doing exactly what a lot of us here on this forum do. Every year I enjoy looking at the pictures people post of themselves and friends with their dead trophy. Doesn't make them bad people.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
"I bought my first CO deer tag in 1982 for $15. Over the counter, see deer all day..."
Whether you like it or not, you and me, and everyone else that was doing this was part of the problem. We were buying up tags worth a lot more than what we were spending. It wasn't the only thing that led to the demise of the herds but it was part of a perfect storm.
Whether you like it or not, you and me, and everyone else that was doing this was part of the problem. We were buying up tags worth a lot more than what we were spending. It wasn't the only thing that led to the demise of the herds but it was part of a perfect storm.
BrowningRage
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,438
I didn't know they got 10% of this tag... Thanks stillhunterman
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
BrowningRage
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,438
So- for the record Tristate. You are a taxidermist in Texas, and it looks like you work exclusively with exotic trophies from Africa..?? (They look pretty sweet by the way)
Why do you care what a bunch of guys up here in Utah say about OUR state management of OUR mule deer..??
No malice intended...
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
Why do you care what a bunch of guys up here in Utah say about OUR state management of OUR mule deer..??
No malice intended...
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-13 AT 03:13PM (MST)[p]I have several reasons for my concern.
First I get trophies from all over. Even Utah. I have had 1 elk, 1 lion, 1 antelope, and 1 deer come from there allready this year. I am hoping for one more lion next month. So I would be lying if I said I did not have a fiscal interest in this.
Second I am a passionate hunter and conservationist. Many of the problems facing Utah are manifested in other states also and the many of those problems are growing and spreding. One of those problems is actually the NACM itself. Not only is it adding to the problem in certian ways but it is being misinterpreted by much of the hunting populace as a sort of "Bill of Rights" for us hunters. I am seeing this occur a lot in the state of Utah and elsewhere.
There will have to be drastic changes to the entire wildlife management models of the western states if we are to save mule deer hunting. Like I have said before. All of you can feel it. You have all scene this decline in less than one lifetime. If we can all start being honest with ourselves that the system is completely broken then we can start over with a completely fresh plan.
And thank you for the compliment. We really do some beautiful mule deer too.
First I get trophies from all over. Even Utah. I have had 1 elk, 1 lion, 1 antelope, and 1 deer come from there allready this year. I am hoping for one more lion next month. So I would be lying if I said I did not have a fiscal interest in this.
Second I am a passionate hunter and conservationist. Many of the problems facing Utah are manifested in other states also and the many of those problems are growing and spreding. One of those problems is actually the NACM itself. Not only is it adding to the problem in certian ways but it is being misinterpreted by much of the hunting populace as a sort of "Bill of Rights" for us hunters. I am seeing this occur a lot in the state of Utah and elsewhere.
There will have to be drastic changes to the entire wildlife management models of the western states if we are to save mule deer hunting. Like I have said before. All of you can feel it. You have all scene this decline in less than one lifetime. If we can all start being honest with ourselves that the system is completely broken then we can start over with a completely fresh plan.
And thank you for the compliment. We really do some beautiful mule deer too.
BrowningRage
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,438
He's not a Nimrod for saying that YBO- That's how the hunt has worked the past two years. The auction tag holder did start his hunt several days before the draw tag holder. Is there any reason to believe it will not be the same this year..?
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
YBO
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,185
Browning
Do you even know what a nimrod is? I'd suggest you look it up in your Funk and Wagnells. As far as my statement about AI...I'd suggest you might want to look a little deeper. The funny thing is is that who ever draws the draw tag will probably be in better shape than DA so he/she should have a good shot a killing the biggest buck on the island this year. Maybe. Anyway,please prove me wrong. Thanks and good evening.
Do you even know what a nimrod is? I'd suggest you look it up in your Funk and Wagnells. As far as my statement about AI...I'd suggest you might want to look a little deeper. The funny thing is is that who ever draws the draw tag will probably be in better shape than DA so he/she should have a good shot a killing the biggest buck on the island this year. Maybe. Anyway,please prove me wrong. Thanks and good evening.
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,554
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-13 AT 07:41AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-13 AT 07:39?AM (MST)
The only part of the Island hunt that even remotely bothers me is that the auction season is before the draw season. There is a reason for that: to give the auction hunter first choice. To my knowledge not one of the 4 deer tags so far have been filled beyond the first day. If memory serves me correctly, the auction season gets 5 days before the draw season starts? Yes, the draw hunter is still going to shoot a great buck, no doubt. But money shouldn't buy you first choice. On year one of the Island hunt the auction hunter went after one buck and realized he'd broke a tine, then changed and went after the buck the draw hunter was scouting. It would add at least some measure of sporting if they both got to start the same day.
I don't care if AI allows a hunt. I don't care if it is easy and what many consider basically high fence hunting. I don't care if Denny wants to buy that tag for $10 million every year for the rest of his life. His money, he can do what he wants with it. I don't even care that they go hire the services of Mossback. The only aspect I fundamentally disagree with is if the state is going to sponsor a hunt it should be equal once the tags are in hand. Just my opinion.
The only part of the Island hunt that even remotely bothers me is that the auction season is before the draw season. There is a reason for that: to give the auction hunter first choice. To my knowledge not one of the 4 deer tags so far have been filled beyond the first day. If memory serves me correctly, the auction season gets 5 days before the draw season starts? Yes, the draw hunter is still going to shoot a great buck, no doubt. But money shouldn't buy you first choice. On year one of the Island hunt the auction hunter went after one buck and realized he'd broke a tine, then changed and went after the buck the draw hunter was scouting. It would add at least some measure of sporting if they both got to start the same day.
I don't care if AI allows a hunt. I don't care if it is easy and what many consider basically high fence hunting. I don't care if Denny wants to buy that tag for $10 million every year for the rest of his life. His money, he can do what he wants with it. I don't even care that they go hire the services of Mossback. The only aspect I fundamentally disagree with is if the state is going to sponsor a hunt it should be equal once the tags are in hand. Just my opinion.
BrowningRage
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,438
Hey YBO- I know who Nimrod was, from the Bible... A Mighty Hunter. I meant no disrespect in my post. I'll admit, I thought you were using nimrod in the contemporary sense of calling someone an idiot or the like.
As far as the hunt dates. I didn't see specific dates posted distinguishing between the two tag holders? But as I said, the past two years the auction tag has hunted first. Either way, the draw tag holder will shoot a giant.
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
As far as the hunt dates. I didn't see specific dates posted distinguishing between the two tag holders? But as I said, the past two years the auction tag has hunted first. Either way, the draw tag holder will shoot a giant.
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,500
>Tax write off yes. But
>I am pretty sure Denny
>is not worried about a
>tax write off. Do
>I agree with this..No because
>any body could go to
>that Island and kill a
>great buck. I do believe
>the reason for the guide
>is to kill the highest
>scoring buck on the island
>which Doyle will find.
Or me, or Yelum , or any other guy who goes out there, not a real skill to finding one
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>I am pretty sure Denny
>is not worried about a
>tax write off. Do
>I agree with this..No because
>any body could go to
>that Island and kill a
>great buck. I do believe
>the reason for the guide
>is to kill the highest
>scoring buck on the island
>which Doyle will find.
Or me, or Yelum , or any other guy who goes out there, not a real skill to finding one
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,500
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-13
>AT 03:13?PM (MST)
>
>I have several reasons for my
>concern.
>
>First I get trophies from all
>over. Even Utah.
>I have had 1 elk,
>1 lion, 1 antelope, and
>1 deer come from there
>allready this year. I
>am hoping for one more
>lion next month. So
>I would be lying if
>I said I did not
>have a fiscal interest in
>this.
>
>Second I am a passionate hunter
>and conservationist. Many of
>the problems facing Utah are
>manifested in other states also
>and the many of those
>problems are growing and spreding.
> One of those problems
>is actually the NACM itself.
> Not only is it
>adding to the problem in
>certian ways but it is
>being misinterpreted by much of
>the hunting populace as a
>sort of "Bill of Rights"
>for us hunters. I am
>seeing this occur a lot
>in the state of Utah
>and elsewhere.
>
>There will have to be drastic
>changes to the entire wildlife
>management models of the western
>states if we are to
>save mule deer hunting.
>Like I have said before.
> All of you can
>feel it. You have
>all scene this decline in
>less than one lifetime.
>If we can all start
>being honest with ourselves that
>the system is completely broken
>then we can start over
>with a completely fresh plan.
>
>
>And thank you for the compliment.
> We really do some
>beautiful mule deer too.
Tri,
THis is an actual post and not just your persona, so I will respond. The North American model was not just set up for Mule Deer. While I agree we have seen the decline in Mule deer, we have also seen the explosion in elk. If the model was broken, we would not have seen this explosion. Also, we have seen the continued expansion of whitetails into the west, even into my state (Utah). Again if the model was broken, they would also be in decline. I believe that mule deer are genetically inferior to whitetails thus there decline. They are two picky in feed, they inhabit to much acreage that puts them in competition with other hooved animals. They are migratory, which was stopped when I-15 was completed. They Have been pushed off winter range along the Wasatch Front. Having said that, you can jack the price of a tag to $310,000 for every deer. You can't buy back and demolish I-15, your not gonna buy the houses and restore the winter range, and as for their poor competion, money doesn't fix that.
What drives the price of this tag? EASE. There are bigger deer on the Henries, the Pauns, the book cliffs, etc. NONE of those places do you fly in on a plane, take a 45 minute drive, step off the road and shoot that size buck. Denny has gotten older, and sadly still seeks the attention, so he has to get Easier and Easier hunts to produce. The problem with this hunt is it is "shooting fish in a barrel". Tristate, next time you are in Utah, PM me and I will take you out on the island. Come and see what its like. IT IS A HIGH FENCE HUNT, only the fence is water.
Lastly, do a search. Look at the pics Yelum has on here. He has pics of the deer that were shot last year. Then find the post he did of meeting Tred Barta. My friend(I hope, I enjoy his posts perhaps more than anyones, even though we do disagree) Yelum is wheelchair bound. I AM TRYING TO TIP TOE HERE SO PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING. Ever wonder how a guy in a wheelchair and the infamous Doyle Moss(the greates hunter ever?) end up with the same deer, even with Yelums physical limitations? Because the deer on the island are that easy to find. Tristate, I will give you 1 day, and you too will find the such a buck. I oppose the hunt because it is a preserve, and these deer are at most, semi tame.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>AT 03:13?PM (MST)
>
>I have several reasons for my
>concern.
>
>First I get trophies from all
>over. Even Utah.
>I have had 1 elk,
>1 lion, 1 antelope, and
>1 deer come from there
>allready this year. I
>am hoping for one more
>lion next month. So
>I would be lying if
>I said I did not
>have a fiscal interest in
>this.
>
>Second I am a passionate hunter
>and conservationist. Many of
>the problems facing Utah are
>manifested in other states also
>and the many of those
>problems are growing and spreding.
> One of those problems
>is actually the NACM itself.
> Not only is it
>adding to the problem in
>certian ways but it is
>being misinterpreted by much of
>the hunting populace as a
>sort of "Bill of Rights"
>for us hunters. I am
>seeing this occur a lot
>in the state of Utah
>and elsewhere.
>
>There will have to be drastic
>changes to the entire wildlife
>management models of the western
>states if we are to
>save mule deer hunting.
>Like I have said before.
> All of you can
>feel it. You have
>all scene this decline in
>less than one lifetime.
>If we can all start
>being honest with ourselves that
>the system is completely broken
>then we can start over
>with a completely fresh plan.
>
>
>And thank you for the compliment.
> We really do some
>beautiful mule deer too.
Tri,
THis is an actual post and not just your persona, so I will respond. The North American model was not just set up for Mule Deer. While I agree we have seen the decline in Mule deer, we have also seen the explosion in elk. If the model was broken, we would not have seen this explosion. Also, we have seen the continued expansion of whitetails into the west, even into my state (Utah). Again if the model was broken, they would also be in decline. I believe that mule deer are genetically inferior to whitetails thus there decline. They are two picky in feed, they inhabit to much acreage that puts them in competition with other hooved animals. They are migratory, which was stopped when I-15 was completed. They Have been pushed off winter range along the Wasatch Front. Having said that, you can jack the price of a tag to $310,000 for every deer. You can't buy back and demolish I-15, your not gonna buy the houses and restore the winter range, and as for their poor competion, money doesn't fix that.
What drives the price of this tag? EASE. There are bigger deer on the Henries, the Pauns, the book cliffs, etc. NONE of those places do you fly in on a plane, take a 45 minute drive, step off the road and shoot that size buck. Denny has gotten older, and sadly still seeks the attention, so he has to get Easier and Easier hunts to produce. The problem with this hunt is it is "shooting fish in a barrel". Tristate, next time you are in Utah, PM me and I will take you out on the island. Come and see what its like. IT IS A HIGH FENCE HUNT, only the fence is water.
Lastly, do a search. Look at the pics Yelum has on here. He has pics of the deer that were shot last year. Then find the post he did of meeting Tred Barta. My friend(I hope, I enjoy his posts perhaps more than anyones, even though we do disagree) Yelum is wheelchair bound. I AM TRYING TO TIP TOE HERE SO PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING. Ever wonder how a guy in a wheelchair and the infamous Doyle Moss(the greates hunter ever?) end up with the same deer, even with Yelums physical limitations? Because the deer on the island are that easy to find. Tristate, I will give you 1 day, and you too will find the such a buck. I oppose the hunt because it is a preserve, and these deer are at most, semi tame.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,500
YBO, Denny gets a 5 day head start. The hunt takes place during the rut. The island is roughly 17 square miles, however the north end of the island is marinas, welcoming center, some housing, storage sheds, bison corrals, and a restaraunt. The area that contain deer is about 1/3 of the island. The Great Salt Lake is a salt lake, potable water is very limited on the island. There are very few trees, mostly grass, and some brush. The south end has some rocky areas where there are sheep. There is a paved road, with turnouts from which you can see 25"+ bucks every night without much trouble. The road ends at a historic ranch. The island, or at least the areas the hunter is is closed via a park employee, they don't want tourists to see the "show". This isn't Yellowstone, its not a huge area, its definately not wilderness. We have watched these deer since I was a kid(i live 3 minutes from the pay station to get on the island. They have been huge, SFW's tag did nothing to cause this. Because it is an island, and there isn't much water, there is a carrying capacity, and all the "improvements" in the world won't change that. In the summer the island generally burns, lightening loves it.
I could care less about Denny Austad. Although a PHD disertation on his need for attention would be a good read. My, and others concern(as high as 70% disaprove) is that it was a preserve, and should continue to be so. BTW, the biggest, and most "book" animal that I have seen the last two years was a monster buck antelope. If SFW was so concerned about the island wouldn't they want to get a tag for it? Apparently there ain't much need to "improve" the antelope habitat.
AI is a microcosim of where hunting is headed. Selling wildlife to the highest bidder, specials rules, special seasons, etc, etc.. And yes there is a draw tag, SFW couldn't get a high dollar only hunt pushed through, it would have looked like they were $FW.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
I could care less about Denny Austad. Although a PHD disertation on his need for attention would be a good read. My, and others concern(as high as 70% disaprove) is that it was a preserve, and should continue to be so. BTW, the biggest, and most "book" animal that I have seen the last two years was a monster buck antelope. If SFW was so concerned about the island wouldn't they want to get a tag for it? Apparently there ain't much need to "improve" the antelope habitat.
AI is a microcosim of where hunting is headed. Selling wildlife to the highest bidder, specials rules, special seasons, etc, etc.. And yes there is a draw tag, SFW couldn't get a high dollar only hunt pushed through, it would have looked like they were $FW.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-13 AT 01:03PM (MST)[p]"Tri,
THis is an actual post and not just your persona, so I will respond. The North American model was not just set up for Mule Deer."
Never said it was.
" While I agree we have seen the decline in Mule deer, we have also seen the explosion in elk. If the model was broken, we would not have seen this explosion."
Actually that is not evidence at all. Somethimes an explosion is an exact indicator that something is majorly wrong in a wildlife plan.
" Also, we have seen the continued expansion of whitetails into the west, even into my state (Utah). Again if the model was broken, they would also be in decline."
Again that is an incorrect assumption of an indicator.
" I believe that mule deer are genetically inferior to whitetails thus there decline."
There are plenty of places in the west where there are no whitetail and mule deer are in decline.
" They are two picky in feed, they inhabit to much acreage that puts them in competition with other hooved animals. They are migratory, which was stopped when I-15 was completed. They Have been pushed off winter range along the Wasatch Front. Having said that, you can jack the price of a tag to $310,000 for every deer. You can't buy back and demolish I-15, your not gonna buy the houses and restore the winter range, and as for their poor competion, money doesn't fix that."
You are over simplifying the problem. There are a whole laundry list of methods to deal with interspecies competition, range encroachment, and food availibility.
"What drives the price of this tag? EASE. There are bigger deer on the Henries, the Pauns, the book cliffs, etc. NONE of those places do you fly in on a plane, take a 45 minute drive, step off the road and shoot that size buck. Denny has gotten older, and sadly still seeks the attention, so he has to get Easier and Easier hunts to produce. The problem with this hunt is it is "shooting fish in a barrel"."
Why care? Why must we all be the "effort" police? What is the satisfaction of knowing you controlled other people's good times and spending. Maybe I am to much of an American, but I don't understand the conflict.
" Tristate, next time you are in Utah, PM me and I will take you out on the island. Come and see what its like. IT IS A HIGH FENCE HUNT, only the fence is water.
Lastly, do a search. Look at the pics Yelum has on here. He has pics of the deer that were shot last year. Then find the post he did of meeting Tred Barta. My friend(I hope, I enjoy his posts perhaps more than anyones, even though we do disagree) Yelum is wheelchair bound. I AM TRYING TO TIP TOE HERE SO PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING. Ever wonder how a guy in a wheelchair and the infamous Doyle Moss(the greates hunter ever?) end up with the same deer, even with Yelums physical limitations? Because the deer on the island are that easy to find. Tristate, I will give you 1 day, and you too will find the such a buck. I oppose the hunt because it is a preserve, and these deer are at most, semi tame."
I don't care. I know what antelope island is. I am happy that people of all types are getting to go view the critters that inhabit it. I don't care if some people get to whack animals on it. I don't care if they spend rediculous amounts of money to do it. I do not care if someone wants to spend millions of dollars to chase nanny goats in a pen with a claw hammer. One thing I can tell you as a biologist. Since it is a confined area you have to do some controlled offtake. When you have a finite space with limited resources you are apt to experience so very wild population swings and you actually can face an ecological disastr if there is absolutely no population management. Truthfully killing two bucks a year probably is not enough. Everybody likes to make fun of Texas and their high fences. I have some exposure to high fences and I can tell you this. Within those high fence propertes is a constant battle of management. It is expensive and like a full time job you don't want to have. I literaly have clients that have high fence ranches that the feed bill is breaking them and they have to mow down so many animals there is practicly no time to trophy hunt. Some of them have to kill 20 or more deer a weekend just to keep the place in check. Its like trying to hold back the tide. They have a job away from their job now. If you think the same thing can't happen on Antelop Island you are kidding yourself.
One other thing I thought about after posting this and I am coming back and editing something. I think one good thing I can say about this hunt asside from the money is the timing. I agree with other people on here that having a place where people who are interested in pursute with a camera can go and find pleasure in photographing these large deer. Obviously the state park values that also. Notice that the hunts are heald well into the winter and therefore they have given the photographers ample opportunity to get first shake at these big deer. If the state park was only interested in the money and killing the deer I think they would allow the deer to get shot in say early October as soon as they split the velvet, before there is ever a chane that they could break off their valuable horns. After all if its as easy as you say to kill them then Doyle Moss could go find one in October as easy as he could kill one later. Looks like the park is looking out for the interests of all park patrons and not just two of them.
THis is an actual post and not just your persona, so I will respond. The North American model was not just set up for Mule Deer."
Never said it was.
" While I agree we have seen the decline in Mule deer, we have also seen the explosion in elk. If the model was broken, we would not have seen this explosion."
Actually that is not evidence at all. Somethimes an explosion is an exact indicator that something is majorly wrong in a wildlife plan.
" Also, we have seen the continued expansion of whitetails into the west, even into my state (Utah). Again if the model was broken, they would also be in decline."
Again that is an incorrect assumption of an indicator.
" I believe that mule deer are genetically inferior to whitetails thus there decline."
There are plenty of places in the west where there are no whitetail and mule deer are in decline.
" They are two picky in feed, they inhabit to much acreage that puts them in competition with other hooved animals. They are migratory, which was stopped when I-15 was completed. They Have been pushed off winter range along the Wasatch Front. Having said that, you can jack the price of a tag to $310,000 for every deer. You can't buy back and demolish I-15, your not gonna buy the houses and restore the winter range, and as for their poor competion, money doesn't fix that."
You are over simplifying the problem. There are a whole laundry list of methods to deal with interspecies competition, range encroachment, and food availibility.
"What drives the price of this tag? EASE. There are bigger deer on the Henries, the Pauns, the book cliffs, etc. NONE of those places do you fly in on a plane, take a 45 minute drive, step off the road and shoot that size buck. Denny has gotten older, and sadly still seeks the attention, so he has to get Easier and Easier hunts to produce. The problem with this hunt is it is "shooting fish in a barrel"."
Why care? Why must we all be the "effort" police? What is the satisfaction of knowing you controlled other people's good times and spending. Maybe I am to much of an American, but I don't understand the conflict.
" Tristate, next time you are in Utah, PM me and I will take you out on the island. Come and see what its like. IT IS A HIGH FENCE HUNT, only the fence is water.
Lastly, do a search. Look at the pics Yelum has on here. He has pics of the deer that were shot last year. Then find the post he did of meeting Tred Barta. My friend(I hope, I enjoy his posts perhaps more than anyones, even though we do disagree) Yelum is wheelchair bound. I AM TRYING TO TIP TOE HERE SO PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING. Ever wonder how a guy in a wheelchair and the infamous Doyle Moss(the greates hunter ever?) end up with the same deer, even with Yelums physical limitations? Because the deer on the island are that easy to find. Tristate, I will give you 1 day, and you too will find the such a buck. I oppose the hunt because it is a preserve, and these deer are at most, semi tame."
I don't care. I know what antelope island is. I am happy that people of all types are getting to go view the critters that inhabit it. I don't care if some people get to whack animals on it. I don't care if they spend rediculous amounts of money to do it. I do not care if someone wants to spend millions of dollars to chase nanny goats in a pen with a claw hammer. One thing I can tell you as a biologist. Since it is a confined area you have to do some controlled offtake. When you have a finite space with limited resources you are apt to experience so very wild population swings and you actually can face an ecological disastr if there is absolutely no population management. Truthfully killing two bucks a year probably is not enough. Everybody likes to make fun of Texas and their high fences. I have some exposure to high fences and I can tell you this. Within those high fence propertes is a constant battle of management. It is expensive and like a full time job you don't want to have. I literaly have clients that have high fence ranches that the feed bill is breaking them and they have to mow down so many animals there is practicly no time to trophy hunt. Some of them have to kill 20 or more deer a weekend just to keep the place in check. Its like trying to hold back the tide. They have a job away from their job now. If you think the same thing can't happen on Antelop Island you are kidding yourself.
One other thing I thought about after posting this and I am coming back and editing something. I think one good thing I can say about this hunt asside from the money is the timing. I agree with other people on here that having a place where people who are interested in pursute with a camera can go and find pleasure in photographing these large deer. Obviously the state park values that also. Notice that the hunts are heald well into the winter and therefore they have given the photographers ample opportunity to get first shake at these big deer. If the state park was only interested in the money and killing the deer I think they would allow the deer to get shot in say early October as soon as they split the velvet, before there is ever a chane that they could break off their valuable horns. After all if its as easy as you say to kill them then Doyle Moss could go find one in October as easy as he could kill one later. Looks like the park is looking out for the interests of all park patrons and not just two of them.
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
"Because it is an island, and there isn't much water, there is a carrying capacity, and all the "improvements" in the world won't change that. In the summer the island generally burns, lightening loves it."
There are two points I would like to take notice to here.
1. We as humans are the only species on earth that has, and does, increase carrying capacity within ecosystems for both ourselves and other species on a regular basis. THIS IS A FACT.
2. Your statement about lightening is very interesting and could be a monumental variable in the management of the herds on the island and herds elsewhere.
There are two points I would like to take notice to here.
1. We as humans are the only species on earth that has, and does, increase carrying capacity within ecosystems for both ourselves and other species on a regular basis. THIS IS A FACT.
2. Your statement about lightening is very interesting and could be a monumental variable in the management of the herds on the island and herds elsewhere.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,500
>You wearing ballarina shoes while you
>tiptoe Hoss. lol
>
>The island is/has been a preserve,
>and is a great place
>to see great bucks, and
>I wish it was kept
>that way.
>
>Yelum
>
>Theres logic, and theres women. They
>don't go together.
I am glad that at least once, what I said was taken the way I meant it, I actually sat and read it over and over hoping you would not be offended. BTW, I was glad you posted your pics with Tred. The greatest hunting show ever was with him, pig hunting with a bowie knife telling the camera that when he is stabbing that pig he can't help but think of his wife and family! That guy has TRUE excitement for hunting, not this poser crap on most of the shows now. I am glad he is still "kicking"
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
>tiptoe Hoss. lol
>
>The island is/has been a preserve,
>and is a great place
>to see great bucks, and
>I wish it was kept
>that way.
>
>Yelum
>
>Theres logic, and theres women. They
>don't go together.
I am glad that at least once, what I said was taken the way I meant it, I actually sat and read it over and over hoping you would not be offended. BTW, I was glad you posted your pics with Tred. The greatest hunting show ever was with him, pig hunting with a bowie knife telling the camera that when he is stabbing that pig he can't help but think of his wife and family! That guy has TRUE excitement for hunting, not this poser crap on most of the shows now. I am glad he is still "kicking"
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,500
Tri,
There is almost never any snow on the island the first of november, the island is a favorite of the horse riding crowd that time of year because of that. The island also has plent of coyotes that I would imagine help to keep a check on the population. It hasn't crashed, nor is there the threat of one. As far as Denny goes, I could care less. I was against it two years ago when some other clown bought it. As for your "I'm an American" argument, good. But then why would you support any restrictions on hunting? If your for open killing anywhere, then why not anywhere, anytime?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
There is almost never any snow on the island the first of november, the island is a favorite of the horse riding crowd that time of year because of that. The island also has plent of coyotes that I would imagine help to keep a check on the population. It hasn't crashed, nor is there the threat of one. As far as Denny goes, I could care less. I was against it two years ago when some other clown bought it. As for your "I'm an American" argument, good. But then why would you support any restrictions on hunting? If your for open killing anywhere, then why not anywhere, anytime?
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
Tristate
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,850
"Tri,
There is almost never any snow on the island the first of november, the island is a favorite of the horse riding crowd that time of year because of that."
Sweet!
" The island also has plent of coyotes that I would imagine help to keep a check on the population. It hasn't crashed, nor is there the threat of one."
I am sure coyotes are very helpful but in small closed wildlife systems you are always at risk of a biological crash.
" As far as Denny goes, I could care less. I was against it two years ago when some other clown bought it. As for your "I'm an American" argument, good. But then why would you support any restrictions on hunting? If your for open killing anywhere, then why not anywhere, anytime?"
Because as part of being an American I have to live under the existing laws. Plus on top of being an American I am a conservationist that believes in sustainable harvest. Therefore I can't be supportive of "open killing anywhere". However just a few days ago on another thread I was discussing this with another member and I do support a much more liberal harvest system that negates the need for many restrictions that are now in place in most of the US.
There is almost never any snow on the island the first of november, the island is a favorite of the horse riding crowd that time of year because of that."
Sweet!
" The island also has plent of coyotes that I would imagine help to keep a check on the population. It hasn't crashed, nor is there the threat of one."
I am sure coyotes are very helpful but in small closed wildlife systems you are always at risk of a biological crash.
" As far as Denny goes, I could care less. I was against it two years ago when some other clown bought it. As for your "I'm an American" argument, good. But then why would you support any restrictions on hunting? If your for open killing anywhere, then why not anywhere, anytime?"
Because as part of being an American I have to live under the existing laws. Plus on top of being an American I am a conservationist that believes in sustainable harvest. Therefore I can't be supportive of "open killing anywhere". However just a few days ago on another thread I was discussing this with another member and I do support a much more liberal harvest system that negates the need for many restrictions that are now in place in most of the US.
Hoss you aren't going to offend me by anything you can type here.
As for the possibility of a crash, it happened in 04, but at the time there were only an estimated 250. In 05-07, I never saw more than 20 bucks, all year. In 02 I filmed 45 different bucks, not counting the ones out of range. In 03 it was a few more. Two years ago Steve Bates said there were 450 deer, and that was near capacity. Last year the count was 543. Two weeks ago the count was 800. Thats way beyond capicity, especially due to near zero habitat growth due to last winter/summers drought. These are the bio's words not mine. Scott Mcfarland, the wdr bio who did the count, says he is expecting a big crash.
Two, or even 5 deer would not help, or hurt the management numbers, but I do worry about the quality of the bucks as they continue this hunt.
I agree that the only necessity to bettering habitat, is to increase huntable numbers. I feel its coming, and am less happy about it.
As far as ease of the hunt, I agree with tri,I don't care, as my book cliffs hunt was an easy hunt. My cwmu hunts were easy hunts. My wifes sheep hunt was easy, but required hiking. Her moose hunt was as easy as they come. With just 2 hunters on the island, they'll always kill the best two bucks as long as Doyle helps them. I don't believe either state hunter kills what they did without him. But they woulds kill very nice bucks.
Yelum
Theres logic, and theres women. They don't go together.
As for the possibility of a crash, it happened in 04, but at the time there were only an estimated 250. In 05-07, I never saw more than 20 bucks, all year. In 02 I filmed 45 different bucks, not counting the ones out of range. In 03 it was a few more. Two years ago Steve Bates said there were 450 deer, and that was near capacity. Last year the count was 543. Two weeks ago the count was 800. Thats way beyond capicity, especially due to near zero habitat growth due to last winter/summers drought. These are the bio's words not mine. Scott Mcfarland, the wdr bio who did the count, says he is expecting a big crash.
Two, or even 5 deer would not help, or hurt the management numbers, but I do worry about the quality of the bucks as they continue this hunt.
I agree that the only necessity to bettering habitat, is to increase huntable numbers. I feel its coming, and am less happy about it.
As far as ease of the hunt, I agree with tri,I don't care, as my book cliffs hunt was an easy hunt. My cwmu hunts were easy hunts. My wifes sheep hunt was easy, but required hiking. Her moose hunt was as easy as they come. With just 2 hunters on the island, they'll always kill the best two bucks as long as Doyle helps them. I don't believe either state hunter kills what they did without him. But they woulds kill very nice bucks.
Yelum
Theres logic, and theres women. They don't go together.
tx_packmule
Active Member
- Messages
- 805
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-13
>AT 08:03?PM (MST)
>
>
>
>First of all, you can only
>write off contributions to orgainzations
>that the IRS deems acceptable.
>If where the money goes
>is OK as such an
>organization, then he can do
>it.
>
>Second, you can't write off the
>entire amount of something when
>you get something in return.
> You have to deduct
>what it is worth that
>you are buying, then "write
>off" the rest. For
>example, I attend a fund
>raiser for the local livestock
>show association every year and
>it is $50 per ticket,
>but the meal I receive
>is deemed to be worth
>$25, so I can only
>write off $25. I have
>no idea what the IRS
>would deem this tag worth?
>The regular price of the
>tag? If so, that is
>a joke.
>
>But to answer your specific question,
>whatever the amount is that
>is legal to "write off"
> he CAN "write off"
>the entire amount. In
>other words he gets to
>subtract this entire amount from
>his taxable income. So,
>lets says he gets to
>"write off" $300,000, and he
>pays 40% income tax, he
>will pay $120,000 less in
>taxes because he didn't pay
>the 40% on that $300,000.
> But the "write off"
>was for $300,000
>
>So, in the end, if he
>can legally write off $300,000,
>it actually ONLY costs him
>$190,000!!! What a deal!
>
>
>txhunter58
>
Kind of how it works. I'd imagine his tax situation is a complete cluster between business and personal. Donations like this are usually about dropping down tax brackets so you can pull more money out of a business as personal income and start a chain of events lowering your overall tax % across the board.
>AT 08:03?PM (MST)
>
>
>
>First of all, you can only
>write off contributions to orgainzations
>that the IRS deems acceptable.
>If where the money goes
>is OK as such an
>organization, then he can do
>it.
>
>Second, you can't write off the
>entire amount of something when
>you get something in return.
> You have to deduct
>what it is worth that
>you are buying, then "write
>off" the rest. For
>example, I attend a fund
>raiser for the local livestock
>show association every year and
>it is $50 per ticket,
>but the meal I receive
>is deemed to be worth
>$25, so I can only
>write off $25. I have
>no idea what the IRS
>would deem this tag worth?
>The regular price of the
>tag? If so, that is
>a joke.
>
>But to answer your specific question,
>whatever the amount is that
>is legal to "write off"
> he CAN "write off"
>the entire amount. In
>other words he gets to
>subtract this entire amount from
>his taxable income. So,
>lets says he gets to
>"write off" $300,000, and he
>pays 40% income tax, he
>will pay $120,000 less in
>taxes because he didn't pay
>the 40% on that $300,000.
> But the "write off"
>was for $300,000
>
>So, in the end, if he
>can legally write off $300,000,
>it actually ONLY costs him
>$190,000!!! What a deal!
>
>
>txhunter58
>
Kind of how it works. I'd imagine his tax situation is a complete cluster between business and personal. Donations like this are usually about dropping down tax brackets so you can pull more money out of a business as personal income and start a chain of events lowering your overall tax % across the board.
hossblur
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,500
I would be shocked if there was 800 deer out there, in fact I thought 450 sounds high, but I don't count them.
I don't care that it is easy either, I was pointing out thats at least partially the reason for the unbelievable price.
I remember there being a crash now that you mention it, HOWEVER look at the numbers, didn't take long to rebound back.
Yelum, I hate this hunt, you know that, I don't care if its Denny. I worry A LOT about our wonderful legislature will see those prices and start "raising revenue". I don't think the hunt or the seasons for it are much to brag about, but I don't understand why guys like Denny get anything out of having Doyle hunt them an animal then pull the trigger. And yes, the way Denny and Doyle are doing things is WAYYYYYY different then you or I hiring a guide. Thats my .02, it hasn't changed. Hopefully we will run on to one another this summer out there.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
I don't care that it is easy either, I was pointing out thats at least partially the reason for the unbelievable price.
I remember there being a crash now that you mention it, HOWEVER look at the numbers, didn't take long to rebound back.
Yelum, I hate this hunt, you know that, I don't care if its Denny. I worry A LOT about our wonderful legislature will see those prices and start "raising revenue". I don't think the hunt or the seasons for it are much to brag about, but I don't understand why guys like Denny get anything out of having Doyle hunt them an animal then pull the trigger. And yes, the way Denny and Doyle are doing things is WAYYYYYY different then you or I hiring a guide. Thats my .02, it hasn't changed. Hopefully we will run on to one another this summer out there.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
