Long range sure has changed the game

fullthrottle

Very Active Member
Messages
1,359
Just sitting here thinking how much long range has changed the game. Everywhere you turn it's 750 this, 900 that. Hell everyone can make a 500 yarder now. Critters don't stand much of a chance. Not complaining, I'm as guilty as the next, long bombs are pretty fun. That being said it has got to have an impact on mature bucks/bulls. I know it has for me. I mean if you can sit across a 1,000 yard canyon and send lasers into the boiler room. Those big muleys sure have the deck stacked against them. Guess that's what makes the big mature ones so cool, they got to make it through a lot of obstacles to get to the point where they become an entirely different species. Just wondering how much of our accuracy enhancing, distance increasing toys they can take before we look back and wish it would have been more of our hunting skill than the gadgets we acquire to become successful. Archery is my favorite, but it's hard not to get wrapped up with the long range crowd. Will it ever stop, or will we be talking about 1,500-2,000 yarders in the next 10 years. Just thinking out loud.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-17 AT 03:36PM (MST)[p]>Just sitting here thinking how much
>long range has changed the
>game. Everywhere you turn it's
>750 this, 900 that. Hell
>everyone can make a 500
>yarder now. Critters don't stand
>much of a chance. Not
>complaining, I'm as guilty as
>the next, long bombs are
>pretty fun. That being said
>it has got to have
>an impact on mature bucks/bulls.
>I know it has for
>me. I mean if
>you can sit across a
>1,000 yard canyon and send
>lasers into the boiler room.
>Those big muleys sure have
>the deck stacked against them.
>Guess that's what makes the
>big mature ones so cool,
>they got to make it
>through a lot of obstacles
>to get to the point
>where they become an entirely
>different species. Just wondering how
>much of our accuracy
>enhancing, distance increasing toys they
>can take before we look
>back and wish it would
>have been more of our
>hunting skill than the gadgets
>we acquire to become successful.
>Archery is my favorite, but
>it's hard not to get
>wrapped up with the long
>range crowd. Will it ever
>stop, or will we be
>talking about 1,500-2,000 yarders in
>the next 10 years. Just
>thinking out loud.

Don't Forget to Mention your Long Range StickFlippers!

And the New One Shot Rifles/SmokePoles!










She Don't Just Rain She Pours!

That Girl Right There's The Perfect Storm!


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LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-17 AT 05:22PM (MST)[p]
And Don't Forget to Mention The Longest Life Span of a Mule Deer Buck in TARDville is Only 3-1/2 Years Old!

Ain't That F'N Neat?






She Don't Just Rain She Pours!

That Girl Right There's The Perfect Storm!


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Don't see it as that much of a problem yet. There is just not that many people who have the skills and the range time to consistently make those shots. What worries me more is that due to the increase in posts about long range, more people who shouldn't be shooting more than 400 yards will be trying it. Yes, there is a bigger following, but still not that big.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
>
>And Don't Forget to Mention The
>Average Life Span of a
>Mule Deer Buck in TARDville
>is Only 3-1/2 Years Old!
>
>

That high huh?...
 
>>
>>And Don't Forget to Mention The
>>Average Life Span of a
>>Mule Deer Buck in TARDville
>>is Only 3-1/2 Years Old!
>>
>>
>
>That high huh?...

No!

Not that High!

My Bad!

3-1/2 are the Old Timers now Days!










She Don't Just Rain She Pours!

That Girl Right There's The Perfect Storm!


90087hankjr.jpg
 
>Don't see it as that much
>of a problem yet.
>There is just not that
>many people who have the
>skills and the range time
>to consistently make those shots.
> What worries me more
>is that due to the
>increase in posts about long
>range, more people who shouldn't
>be shooting more than 400
>yards will be trying it.
> Yes, there is a
>bigger following, but still not
>that big.
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)

DUH....


497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
My first season hunting I carried a recurve with cedar arrows I made myself. Bushnell 8X binos (no spotting scope) and I got around in a two wheel drive delivery van. When rifle season came along I switched to an open sighted 32 special with an effective range of 150 yds.
Hunting was hunting in those days.
 
Its a done deal man, way too late to get back to the good ol days... the future is obviously further advancement of tech, stricter regulation of such, and harder to procure tags...nevermind the ego trip so many people are on these days, frikken guys and gals will seemingly happily sail across any defined boundary to add another inch to their junk if they think they can get away with it somehow

10-4 Rick; I miss the old days too, and I aint even that old! :)
 
Most guys couldn't make a 500 yard shot if their life depended on it. I could dress up as a doctor and walk into a surgery room but it's not gonna make a heart transplant happen.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
I keep hearing most guys can't make a 500 or so yard shot, but I think nowdays that's an inaccurate statement. If you know the range, have the scope, a decent rifle, and a good rest I think just about anybody could make that shot... easy. I have known many a hunters wife/kid including my own that have never even touched their husbands rifle and made shots well beyond that like it was nothing. Just saying, gear is getting way to good. No offense to the hunting ladies out there, I know some of you gals flat get after it and I'm sure can shoot circles around most. Just speaking generally.
 
"If you know the range, have the scope, a decent rifle, and a good rest I think just about anybody could make that shot... easy."

Respectfully disagree. Even with the best equipment, 95% of hunters out there don't have the skills to make a 500 yard shot. When you factor in the wind and "buck fever", trigger pull, and flinching, nothing is easy.

Had a 20 year old boy that has been hunting since he was 12 gut shoot a nice buck last weekend at 80 yards. Had plenty of time and a good, solid rest. Just flubbed it. No, not easy in the real world.

And as far as women, my wife can shoot circles around me with rifle or pistol. To her it is just a mechanical process, no excitement to it because she is not a hunter. But she will shoot hogs because they are destructive and deer because she likes to eat the meat. I asked after the first one if she got nervous, she said: No, just grocery shopping.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
TX, ya easy is probably a stretch, but I do believe many can make a longer shot. As far as the ladies go, I agree 100% most of them can shoot extremely well. I don't know what it is, maybe they aren't as high strung as we are?
 
I agree, in my circle I have many friends now that are making 500+ yard shots. I think it is now a management problem, and here in Idaho I would like to see the state go towards a micromanagement with most general area tags going into a draw.
 
I'm definitely not of fan of the long range CRAZE!!! I saw a dad set his son up for a 900 yard shot , set the bipod(sled really) , adjusted the scope all while talking in normal tone. Bull stands up kids pulls the trigger done deal. I actually watched the same thing done on t.v. by a guide for the hunter!!!! Sure I'll hear about this but so be it. At those ranges how is that considered fair chase ? When you're far enough away that u can play the radio in your truck and the animals don't care !! What's wrong with that picture?? It doesn't sit right with me at all!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-17 AT 02:53PM (MST)[p]http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos_2017/49283mildot.jpg

If it's windy, don't shoot, otherwise: Lay down next to your back pack, lay the rifle on the pack, look through the scope, hold the third dot down from the cross hairs on the top of the deer's shoulder, straight up from his front leg, like I showed in the pictures at home. When you have everything lined up, slowly, slowly squeeze the trigger, until the rifle goes off.

I'm not sure why you think 95% of us can't do it tx, it seems actually pretty simple to me. I've personally watched numerous people's very young children kill antelope at 500 yards, on many occasions. Do they wiggle and miss on occasion, sure, same as they do at 100 yards, on occasion. With 20 power scopes a deer/antelope looks nearly as big at 500 yards as they do at 3 or 4 power at a 100 yards. If you shake when you shoot, you'll miss the "spot", regardless of the distance.

I think long range distances will continue to increase, on all three weapon types, until the only solution will be reducing tag numbers. Historically we promote new technology, if I'm not mistaken.

Do I like it. I hate it. I'd prefer open sight lever actions, round balls with a slow twist barrel and a flint lock action, and long bows, but I don't get to decide, or I'd outlaw hunting with anything else.

Do I think it's fun to hit a spot at 1,000 yards with a rifle, dang right it's fun.

Hell, I think shooting bowling ball cannons that travel 1500 yards are about as much fun as you can have with your pants on! Now laying one of those babies on target is what 95% of us can't do, but 500 yards with a 270, piece of cake, now days.

DC
 
In my opinion if someone can set up a young kid or a first time hunter or so to speak and kill an animal at 500 to 1000 yards one and done. then I can guaranty that they have put more time and preparation into that gun and range time than most average everyday hunters/shooters. At that distance the animal is unaware of danger so its calm and not alert so the hunter has plenty of time to make the call if the conditions are right to attempt a shot. most the time its to windy or you just can't get a comfortable steady rest that's when you have to know your limitations and know when to let the opportunity go.
The stories that make me cringe is when hunter's pull there gun out of the cabinet and go to the range and shoot a couple rounds at a hundred yards the day before the opener and then try to make a shot at 200 yards and wound animals and let them get away. Shoot a dozen shots and blow legs out from underneath them and they run off gut shot. Those are the stories that piss me off.
 
I had spent all the time to be able to shoot at least 600 , scope , bullets ,triggers ,range time and after 3 years of plenty of hunting, elk deer ant.pig, I have not had a shot over 200 just like most of my life, I will use any weapon I am allowed, and start with archery, turns out that for me shooting a screaming bull at 30 feet with a 300 win.is much more exiting than a 1000 yrd shot or a bow shot at 30 feet, and with a rifle I don't have to wait for it to go down. I don't need to shot far unless I am strictly trophy hunting and the last and only shot is all I have.I don't know if I would ever have a shot at 600 but I can.with all the advertisement I was sold, and I was using re curve and iron sites on a 270 in the mid 70s and always killed. I think the less you know about getting closer the farther you need to shot,only go for the sure shot no matter how far.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-17 AT 06:20AM (MST)[p]"If it's windy, don't shoot,"

Right, people are going to follow that rule.

"otherwise: Lay down next to your back pack, lay the rifle on the pack,"

Guess they have to pass on all shots where they can't lay down either. Most of the shots I have taken would not allow a prone shot, so I am sure most people would pass up anything unless they could get prone.

"look through the scope, hold the third dot down from the cross hairs on the top of the deer's shoulder, straight up from his front leg, like I showed in the pictures at home. When you have everything lined up, slowly, slowly squeeze the trigger, until the rifle goes off"

Of course all trigger are the same, so you don't need much practice there? People have trouble learning to squeeze that trigger without flinching. I would not let a kid of mine shoot unless they have logged many many hours at the range at long range.

Also, when you look at many youtube videos of long range shooting, many times they miss on the first shot and have to "adjust" and get him the second shot. So even guys who do this a lot screw up. Obviously they never publish the videos where they wound them and never find them.

Sorry, but it is this kind of attitude that make people who shouldn't be shooting long range try it. Even for a rifle that shoots minute of angle that means 5 inches at 500 yards. That is just too much chance for error with the normal person/shooter. Opinions vary though

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
It All Goes back to one Theory!

"Where There's Lead,There's Possible Danger"!:D







She Don't Just Rain She Pours!

That Girl Right There's The Perfect Storm!


90087hankjr.jpg
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-17
>AT 06:20?AM (MST)

>
>"If it's windy, don't shoot,"
>
>Right, people are going to follow
>that rule.
>
>"otherwise: Lay down next to your
>back pack, lay the rifle
>on the pack,"
>
>Guess they have to pass on
>all shots where they can't
>lay down either. Most of
>the shots I have taken
>would not allow a prone
>shot, so I am sure
>most people would pass up
>anything unless they could get
>prone.
>
>"look through the scope, hold the
>third dot down from the
>cross hairs on the top
>of the deer's shoulder, straight
>up from his front leg,
>like I showed in the
>pictures at home. When you
>have everything lined up, slowly,
>slowly squeeze the trigger, until
>the rifle goes off"
>
>Of course all trigger are the
>same, so you don't need
>much practice there? People
>have trouble learning to squeeze
>that trigger without flinching.
>I would not let a
>kid of mine shoot unless
>they have logged many many
>hours at the range at
>long range.
>
>Also, when you look at many
>youtube videos of long range
>shooting, many times they miss
>on the first shot and
>have to "adjust" and get
>him the second shot. So
>even guys who do this
>a lot screw up.
>Obviously they never publish the
>videos where they wound them
>and never find them.
>
>Sorry, but it is this kind
>of attitude that make people
>who shouldn't be shooting long
>range try it. Even
>for a rifle that shoots
>minute of angle that means
>5 inches at 500 yards.
> That is just too
>much chance for error with
>the normal person/shooter. Opinions
>vary though
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)


+100
 
All we need to get it back to the old days for all hunting methods is make range finders illegal. Archery goes back to 50 yards, muzzy back to 150, and rifles back to 400 for the average dude or dudette.
 
>All we need to get it
>back to the old days
>for all hunting methods is
>make range finders illegal. Archery
>goes back to 50 yards,
>muzzy back to 150, and
>rifles back to 400 for
>the average dude or dudette.
>

And then Find a way to Enforce it!

TARDS Ain't Real Smart when it comes to Following Rules!








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"All we need to get it back to the old days for all hunting methods is make range finders illegal. Archery goes back to 50 yards, muzzy back to 150, and rifles back to 400 for the average dude or dudette."

Such a true comment. Rangefinders changed the game for all methods.
 
I agree that range finders would take away a lot. But let's not stop there. Let's remove scopes from Muzzys and only allow sidelock guns, no inlines. The Muzzy hunt was originally set aside as a primitive hunt. It no longer is. Let's also limit rifles to 9 power scores. Archery let's go back to no mechanical releases and no slider sights. Implement all of those things and you will see success rates drop. All pretty easy to enforce also.
 
>I agree that range finders would
>take away a lot.
>But let's not stop there.
> Let's remove scopes from
>Muzzys and only allow sidelock
>guns, no inlines. The
>Muzzy hunt was originally set
>aside as a primitive hunt.
> It no longer is.
> Let's also limit rifles
>to 9 power scores.
>Archery let's go back to
>no mechanical releases and no
>slider sights. Implement all
>of those things and you
>will see success rates drop.
> All pretty easy to
>enforce also.

Ethics or conservation?

#livelikezac
 
One other factor with the long range shots that I did not see mentioned.

The animal may or may not hear the rifle's report. And even if it does hear it, it is so delayed and muffled that it does not connect the sound of a missed shot's impact to being shot at.

So you get more chances than you would at a few hundred yards.
 
Ok let's also add dampener on bows to the list of things to ban. Listen to a compound being shot 25 years ago compared to the new compounds. Higher speeds and quiter bows make it harder for deer to duct the string. It's all technology gents. We are more effiecent across the board. So either cut it back across the board or cut tags and roll with it. Why single out one thing when they all add to the problem?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-17 AT 09:29AM (MST)[p]Why single out one thing?

I don't buy into the OPs premise that there is a big affect overall. However, I do think it leads young hunters coming up to think it is OK to get a range finder, go out to the range a few times, and then shoot at a deer at 800 yards.

Same way with someone who promotes using all the latest gadgets to shoot an animal with a bow at 100 yards. It is probably OK for 1 in 100 guys to do it, but not the average hunter.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I get the 100 yard archery shots, and 300+ yard muzzleloader with high power scopes. There is an argument there. But if you are so far away that none of the animals defense's come into play, and you can talk, slam doors, pull up on a wheeler, and piss into the wind that's blowing there way, the whole time the animal could care less. Don't you think your sniping them rather than hunting them. I love long range stuff, just got me thinking.
 
So eliminate one item that affects long range but not acknowledge the other technologies that increase success. I'm all for putting on restrictions but it should be across the board on all weapons and done with the intent to lower succcess rates.
 
Full,
It all depends on each situation. Look at Founders goat hunt. I think long range is one style of hunting. I think that some unethical individuals have give some bad stories, those that don't like long range use those examples and scream foul. But let's all be honest true long range hunting is no more of a impact than other technology advancements. The fact is more archery, more Muzzy and more rifle under 400 yards all contribute to more wounded and lost deer than long range wounded and lost. That is just fact and yet no one will acknowledge that because it might effect the way they hunt. I totally get that advancement in technology is adding pressure and increasing success rates. That effects the number of tags and even quality. I'm all for clamping down on some things to help both those issues but MOST will only point the finger at the issues that are not attached to their preferred method of hunting. Sportsman are their own worse enemy almost any time you look at it. Be honest and fair across the board and it will benefit the herd across the board. That is a fact!
 
The analogy of LR VS NEW ARCHERY TACKLE has to be the most stupid sh&+ I've heard EVER!!! One can not even begin to compare the two . Argue the point all you want ,that's just ignorant and stupid!!
 
Bugle,
More animals are wounded with archery than are wounded at 800 plus yards...fact. Over the past 30 years archery has more than doubled its effective range. Also scent control, camo etc. They have all increased archery success rates. Go back 50 years and see compare rifle success rates compared to archer success rates. I guarantee you that archery success rates have increased more than rifle success rates.

So you tell me what is more stupid, ignoring reality or claiming long range is the real cause of lost opportunities.
 
I'd Like To Suggest We Start a Flipper Hunt!

Or maybe a Knife Throwing Hunt!

Or Maybe a High Powered Pellet Gun Hunt in January!

Let's Hunt these Animals in to Extinction!






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90087hankjr.jpg
 
Your way behind with your recommendation BC. A naked rock throw hunt was recommended, 25 years ago, no one's interested in primitive hunts anymore.

DC
 
Bess,
Do them all and I bet a you a Dew once you start them hunters will find a way to make them more effective. That's my point. I'm not defending long range I'm saying if we are going to start down the path of implementing restrictions we should do it across the board. It would help the herds across the board. Everyone sacrifices and the herds win. If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. So sportsmen and women. You about helping the herds across the board or just selectively as long as it doesn't effect your chosen method of hunting?
 
I may have missed something. Long range is the cause of lost opportunity? If anything it's the exact opposite.. to shoot at 900+ yards take a lot less HUNTING skill than any archery getting an opportunity! Ranges where an animal can smell a person ,hear a person, see a person are much more difficult to pull off. Hit or miss, at long ranges opportunity are much easier to come by rather than actually have to work to get into decent range.PERIOD
 
Bugle,
Yes you are missing. The increased success by all methods means less tags issued across the board. Less tags results in lost oppurtunities.
 
>Bess,
>Do them all and I bet
>a you a Dew once
>you start them hunters will
>find a way to make
>them more effective. That's
>my point. I'm not
>defending long range I'm saying
>if we are going to
>start down the path of
>implementing restrictions we should do
>it across the board.
>It would help the herds
>across the board. Everyone
>sacrifices and the herds win.
> If it's good for
>the goose it's good for
>the gander. So sportsmen
>and women. You about
>helping the herds across the
>board or just selectively as
>long as it doesn't effect
>your chosen method of hunting?
>

I Know!

I Know!

That's why I Listed them!










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90087hankjr.jpg
 
Maybe, maybe not. Many don't and will never have the skills to shoot something at long range. Others will never spend the money or can't afford a decent long range rig. If I don't see something I'm wanting to shoot, I'll eat the tag. And some areas for deer, elk & antelope already have high success rates for harvesting an animal, Those tags are already allocated based on high harvest percentages.
 
I see all the long range debate and still wonder how a big part of it never seems to become part of the discussion. You all know this happens too. See an animal, drop your shooting pad, extend your bi pod, adjust your cheek stock, windage, range, barometer, elevation, humidity, State, Country, Zip Code, whatever. In the mean time, there is another hunter closing the gap. At what point does lobbing bullets over other hunters heads become a topic?? I know this can happen at 200 or 300 yards too, but obviously the chance of seeing this other hunter is much more probable. The more popular "Long range" becomes, the more this will occur in my opinion. I hear all the time about the pumpkin patch and the overcrowding on the hunts. Now lets have everyone within a mile shooting at the same buck. I think BESS sums it up with about every post he makes these days. THese animals don't have a chance. I guess it will take someone getting hurt or worse to open peoples eyes to this.
 
More animals are wounded with archery than 800 yd rifle shots. You know why because 90% of the 800-1200 yd shots are completely way the hell over or under the animal. Let's look back at this study in 10 more years I'm sure it'll point to the 800-infinite yds. way for wounded animals. And the reason I say this, is long range is still in the early stages of popularity. The thing I really don't like about long range rifles and we all have seen multiple videos, where the vapor trail flies over the animal it looks around not knowing what happened because it's so far away and goes back to feeding. Just to get knocked on it's A55 the next shot. And as stated above it shows the youth it's ok. 1000 yds out of the box gunwerks says so, so I can make the shot. Muzzleloaders shooting 600 yds is just a glorified long range single shot rifle hunt. Now for the bowhunting problem of 100+ yd shots. Most of those guys are shooting at that range with the slim hope of just clipping the animal, thinking they'll get another one in him. I myself enjoy getting in close to test my stalking skills, because that is the toughest most rewarding way to kill an animal. I'm sorry if you draw an early rifle tag for elk to pop one at 1000 yds you are a dumb a55. I would much rather chase bugles and have elk in my face. Experiencing the rut up close. Not through a spotting scope with 15 of the states highest paid sherpas to keep tabs on him, that's no way to hunt an early rifle bull. And it shows the pure laziness and lack of stalking ability in the modern hunter. You may as well have put in for a late hunt if that's your goal to Chris Kyle an elk.

"We don't have a gun problem we have prescription drug problem."
 
And some would say hunting elk in the rut with a rifle at all makes you a dumbasss. It's not long range guys it's the overall technology.
 
Well, I feel like a crappy shooter if everyone else is making the 500 yard shots with no problem. I still can't. Bummer....

In my opinion, I think it's definitely impacting the game. I think it impacts it greatly. The rifle does the killing and wounding of animals. Rangefinders, optics and all the other advances play a role, but rifles shooting accurately twice as far now as what they did 15 years ago is a very big deal. And I think it'll only get worse.
The typical hunter wants a harvest and they want to do that in the easiest and most effective way possible. That's why we all buy better boots, better optics and better rifles. It's all so that we have a greater advantage over the game we pursue.
It comes with a cost though, and that is less opportunity. Overall game numbers are not going to increase at the rate that increased success reduces them, so tag cuts will continue as success rates increase.
Someday rifles will shoot 2,000 yards accurately, setup on dead solid stands. More game will be wounded and more will be harvested and tags that take 10 years to aquire now will take 25 years because there will be less tags available.
I hate to have that outlook on the future of hunting, but it sure seems that's where it's going and I see no evidence of hunters making the change to hunting methods with a lower success rate.
Rule makers implement rules and policies to please hunters and their budgets, and until the majority of hunters can agree to give up some of their advantage over game we pursue, nothing will change.

In Wyoming they're trying to save a handful of deer by outlawing someone from publishing information for a fee about where that someone saw a deer (To heck with the first amendment). Spending thousands of dollars of state money to do it.
But yet doing nothing about the big issues facing trophy game animals, which is the 10's of thousands of hunters who now comb the mountains with rifles that effectively kill things at 600 yards, versus 300 yards 15 years ago.
(That's my little rant because it's comical how people work. They look for the easy victory, rather than take on a real challenge)

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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Founder,

500 yard shots with no problem? They're making 1000 yard shots and never missing, never wounding and losing game and always making perfect kill shots. Just ask them.
 
LMAO....that reminds me of a bet my buddy and I once made. We were driving to Wyoming and he was telling me how he had this new scope, had been shooting long range and could now shoot fantastic at 700 yards. I laughed, so the bet for gas for the trip was on. We found a spot to pull over, setup a 14x16 inch target and he headed out to 700, I waited behind a pile of gravel.
BANG!!! He's buying gas! He came back and wanted to go double or nothing. I was all for that.
BANG!!! The next trip is free for me too! Easy wins. He returned, tail tucked and gas for that trip and the next were on him.
I love that story! I laugh everytime I think about it.




>Founder,
>
>500 yard shots with no problem?
>They're making 1000 yard shots
>and never missing, never wounding
>and losing game and always
>making perfect kill shots. Just
>ask them.


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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on Facebook!
 
While your in the process of outlawing stuff, please outlaw all of those stupid game cameras that are at every waterhole in the country.
 
Not Against Outlawing some of this stuff!

But I wanna see it Enforced!

These Small Rangefinders would Still be in Every TARDS Pockets!

Be Careful Who You're Betting Founder!

Just Sayin!:D









She Don't Just Rain She Pours!

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90087hankjr.jpg
 
It is just like politics and your point of view. The long range shooters I see shooting at the range are not there on windy days. They wait for a calm day. Why? Because they have a hard time grouping. In the heat of the chase most don't think about that. At 500 yards, with a 270, a 10 mile cross wind can throw your bullet off nearly 2 feet.

Then there is all those thousands of hunters who are poor shots because they don't practice at all. they're the ones who get the gun out of the scabboard opening morning where they put it to bed the year before. They see an animal at 50 yards and hit the female behind the one they were shooting at.

Which is worse?

There are things the Big Game Board can do though to give the animals the edge like no game cameras after the season opens, no bullets in the magazine while in or on a vehicle. Loaded muzzleloaders need to be cased in or on a vehicle. That last one might be silly. The point is the BGB needs to be responsive to the animals with all these new fangled gadgets and guns. What do they do, but let you put scopes on muzzleloaders. Made me so mad!!! So what did I do, but purchase an inline and the strongest scope I could purchase. I am one of you now.
 
Mt,
Let me state again. NO PROBLEM with putting some restriction on but they should be across the board! To acknowledge only a sliver of the pie and not the whole pie is nothing more than selfishness. Point the finger at one small issue and not address the rest. Technology across the board has made all weapons more efficient. So address all weapons if you're going to address one. Especially when overall you could make a bigger impact addressing those issues.

Here's another real question. Founder and others talk about long range shooting over the top of other hunters. Unsafe without question. But how many hunters are shot over the top of compared to shots take at skylined animals. Its all little stories and what ifs used to hammer one segment or hunting style.

The real issue it over efficiency with all weapons across the board. If we really want to lower success rates and add opportunity there are easy solutions to implement on all weapons. I'm will to go back to 3x9 scopes an no range finders, I willing to go back to no inlines and no scoped muzzys, I'm willing to go back to no mechanical releases, slider sights, 80% let off and no mechanical broadheads, no fall away rests. I'll support those changes across the board. Problem is most people won't so they will jump on one tiny sliver and act like they are noble and it will fix the problem.

I'm not even a big long range guy. Hell I hunted with a Browning Abolt 300 win mag topped with straight 6 power Leupold for 25 years. I shot the same gun every season. Picked up a Gunwerks 7mm LRM complete package 3 years ago. I've shot exactly one animal with it. A coues buck a couple weeks ago...at a whopping 317 yards, my son also shot one buck with it year before last....at 20 yards.

FIX THE REAL ISSUE ACROSS THE BOARD!
 
That's exactly what I thought. No problem talking restrictions on long range and ending. But start talking about restrictions across the board that would make a positive impact for the herds its silent. Like I said it's selfishness across the board. I'll tell you what to do but by helll you better leave the way I hunt alone.
 
Every post in this thread has some merit to it but muley_73 nailed it right here. Like most everything in this world it comes down to personal responsibility and nobody is interested in that.
 
Oh! The good o'days. You youngsters, who think you have all the answers, know nothing. Talk about evolution in hunting. Geese went north to Canada, never stopping to nest, at least in southern utah. You could count the elk in the central region with your ten fingers, Pheasants everywhere. Ducks everywhere once the lakes froze up to the north. Once in a while you could get a limit of pheasants during your hour lunch of the third day of a three day season. Trespassing signs were nonexistent or nearly so. 30-30's, no scope with just an updated version of the gun that won the West. Open cougar hunts for those who had dogs.
It was open to the rest of us, but you know cougars. Just a couple of army jeeps in the county and lets see better not forget the one ford truck where the 4X4 was broke down more than it ran. One ten day deer season with no archery nor muzzleloading season(muzzleloader was the thing davey crockett shot in the history books). Actually no TV in our little town unless you have antenna about 50 feet tall and could see through the snow in the screen. The only guide service available was your buddy, on those days you weren't the guide. I could go on forever, but I left the best for last.

Four times the deer we have today in Utah. On the Pahvant Range alone you you could see 20 to 40 buck in a herd. Then you could go over a few ridges and see the same numbers again. Ten day hunt and you were done. In the beginning, no elk hunts in this county. No draw, everybody went who wanted to purchase a license. Then I understand if you were from Wayne county, the land of the side hill galoots, you didn't even need to purchase a license to hunt. :) . The deer stayed in the high country until the last few days of hunt when they were pushed to the foothill. Not like now when they are pushed to the foothills before the regular season starts during which time hunters push them into the towns so the DWR Young Bucks think we have too many deer. SO DOE TIME is their motto. I just had to put that in for the contempt I feel for the shooting of doe when it unnecessary. Want to keep the deer out of town get rid of the predators and change the season dates - GOOD GRIEF!!
 

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