Founder: Utah general compared to g and h

schoolhousegrizz · Dec 24, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-17 AT 00:44AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-17 AT 00:43?AM (MST)

I know there's been a lot of debate about Western Wyoming's deer Herd. Many people are saying it will turn into Utah if they don't fix it. I know Utah has its problems, but it sounds like Wyoming might too. It sounds like WYOGA might be a little shady. They made the wilderness law, what a joke! They are trying to ban founder from giving intel! They give 20% of your tags to NRs. I think if you are honest with yourself, then you can admit that everything WYOGA does is only for their benefit. Not for the benefit of the animals or the residents. Anyway, back to my point. Founder, I was curious if you'd be willing to spend as much time on a Utah unit as you do in region G. I'd be willing to bet that you find just as good of bucks, but not as many. What do you think? Would you want to focus on a Utah unit and see what you come up with?

elkassassin · Dec 24, 2017

Seems He Does Spend a Fair Amount of Time on a General Utah Unit Each year already!

And He comes up with Bucks!

ridgetops · Dec 25, 2017

I've hear over by vernal can be pretty good for the bigger bucks.

Get ready for change because it's going to happen!

elkassassin · Dec 25, 2017

>I've hear over by vernal can
>be pretty good for the
>bigger bucks.
>
>Get ready for change because it's
>going to happen!

You're Either Hunting Diamond?

Or Waiting for a Colorado Buck to make a Mistake & Waltz across the Border?

ridgetops · Dec 25, 2017

>>I've hear over by vernal can
>>be pretty good for the
>>bigger bucks.
>>
>>Get ready for change because it's
>>going to happen!
>
>
>You're Either Hunting Diamond?
>
>Or Waiting for a Colorado Buck
>to make a Mistake &
>Waltz across the Border?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Not me. Your the one that keeps hot spotting that South Slope area. lol

Get ready for change because it's going to happen!

elkassassin · Dec 25, 2017

>>>I've hear over by vernal can
>>>be pretty good for the
>>>bigger bucks.
>>>
>>>Get ready for change because it's
>>>going to happen!
>>
>>
>>You're Either Hunting Diamond?
>>
>>Or Waiting for a Colorado Buck
>>to make a Mistake &
>>Waltz across the Border?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Not me. Your the one that
>keeps hot spotting that South
>Slope area. lol
>
>
>
>
>Get ready for change because it's
>going to happen!

Oh it's Hot Ridge!

Founder · Dec 25, 2017

I'm not anti-outfitter at all. There?s for sure a need for many people who can use some help. There?s nothing wrong at all with someone hiring an outfitter.
Just like everyone else though, outfitters look out for themselves first, and often lobby for what is in their best interest. Can?t blame them there.

The outfitter association is a friend to non-resident hunters in WY. If they weren't there fighting to maintain non-res license quotas, we would get far less opportunity.

Brian Latturner
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schoolhousegrizz · Dec 25, 2017

I agree Founder, but they are wanting non-residents to get licenses because it helps their bottom line. They are not doing it because they just want to be nice to non-residents. I know you know this, but just wanted to point it out, thanks.

2lumpy · Dec 25, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-17 AT 07:23PM (MST)[p]"Just like everyone else though, outfitters look out for themselves first, and often lobby for what is in their best interest."

Of course outfitters look out themselves first. It would be absurd to think or expect otherwise. If they didn't they wouldn't be here to provide their services to those that need and/or want it. We should always expect outfitters to look out for themselves first. I would, if I my livelihood depend on outfitting.

And........ it will always be the case that many outfitters may take advantage, if the opportunity presents itself. Not all will, but some will. Therefore it is the regulatory system's responsible to watch, monitor and adjust regulations to make sure outfitters needs stay in balance with the supply and the fairness of the system, which includes all the particpants, residents, non- residence, public lands, private land and the entire community of hunters. All the while, the regulators need to keep close track of habitat, predator and big game populations, so NO ONE, including the outfitters destroy the resource.

Personally, I think that is what this Outfitter is doing by calling for the regulators to do there job. He wins, only when the entire system stays abundantly healthy, for everybody.

DC

WapitiBob · Dec 25, 2017

"The outfitter association is a friend to non-resident hunters in WY. If they weren't there fighting to maintain non-res license quotas, we would get far less opportunity."

Are you on drugs?

The Outfitters keep nr out of the Wilderness.

The Outfitters tried to get the Special/Regular license allocations switched ie; 60% would be special vs the current 40%.

AspenAdventures · Dec 25, 2017

Utah never has had a unit like G that has 40,000 deer potential.

So, you will always find more deer in G than in any specific unit in Utah. However, G is a huge unit. You would have to combine 6 or 7 units in Utah to be as large as G. If that were done then you could likely come up with quite a few bucks.

Like it was said above, look through Founders bucks from Utah on his past posts. His non-typical from about 5 years ago came from a general unit if I remember correctly. He doesn't need to see what he can come up with as you suggest. He has already proven what he can get in Utah on a general tag.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato

opbuckslayer · Dec 26, 2017

G is a region with 4 units making up that region. If your going to constantly pat yourself on the back and go around this site challenging people at every turn to supply facts, please get this simple one correct. Thanks

grosventrehunter · Dec 26, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-17 AT 09:43AM (MST)[p]Outfitters are the friends of NR? What a ignorant comment. I forget you and Sy are buddies, so it kind of makes sense. I wonder if those good old friendly outfitters are upset about you selling GPS coordinates? Just wait until they push for outfitter sponsered tags like New Mexico and Nevada. Founder, how's the hunting in the wilderness? Oh that's right you can't hunt there.

schoolhousegrizz · Dec 26, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-17 AT 10:27AM (MST)[p]Haha tknez, I see that now, thanks.

Tknez · Dec 26, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-17 AT 12:14PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-17 AT 10:07?AM (MST)

Grizz I am sure that post was not ment for you.

Grosventre there is a small group of outfitters trying to drum up support for just that very thing up in the north east part of the state right now.

Haha yea the outfitters and WYOGA just LOVE non residents.... (Money that is...)

Founder · Dec 26, 2017

Well, let's put it this way, outfitters have a much greater incentive to keep as many NR tags available as possible. Who else does? Resident hunters??? I doubt it.

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Tknez · Dec 26, 2017

Founder I look at it a little different to be honest with you. If it wasn't for the residents fighting against land owner vouchers you might very well have something like Colorado or even worse New Mexico. Now that may suit those that are wealthy enough to afford those hi priced hunts, but it certainly is not good for most nonresidents. Also I have been a huge critic of the wilderness law. Hopefully some day that to will be overturned.

Here is a hypothetical for you. What if WYOGA some day tries to push the same law for national forests. It really is not out of the relm of possibly as the reasons they gave for passing that law in the first place widely expands to much of the national forests. I will promise you this we the residents would never let that fly in this day and age.

Founder · Dec 26, 2017

Well, who knows what the future will bring, but my current view is that resident hunters of Wyoming couldn't care less if non-residents got to hunt up there at all. I think next time a tag cut is in order, resident hunters will again want it to come at the expense of non-res guys. The only people wanting to salvage non-res tags is the Outfitters Association. So, because of that, I see them as our only chance to maintain opportunity. You all know what I mean! Without the state needing non-res hunter money and outfitters needing non-res hunters, we'd be lucky to get 10% of the tags.

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dz · Dec 27, 2017

I see it a bit different. I hear Tri in the back ground laughing. If the price of a NR tag goes up high enough to price out the Do it yourself hunters then they can live with a lot less NR tags. They can demand more $s for less hunters and still make the same money, or more. Say an elk tag cost 2K to buy from F&G and then you throw in 2K for the land owner voucher, that eliminates a bunch of guys. Then if they require all NR to hire a guide. What do you think they will charge for a hunt then? Seems like Outfitters may not be my (DIY NR WY hunter) best friend.

DZ

Founder · Dec 27, 2017

Obviously the Outfitters Association isn't the DIY?s best friend. I'm not claiming that. We all know they'd like us all to hire them. But at least they want us in the state hunting, right? How many resident hunters do you think are sitting at home right now saying, ?geesh, I hope those guys from Utah have a tag again to come hunt where I hunt??

There are a million ?what if?s?, but right now I believe the outfitters are the only ones trying to maintain NR tags. And the G&F since they need the money.

I know it's getting expensive to get a tag, and I don't like it. But isn't an expensive tag better than no tag at all?

In my opinion, resident hunters would like to see less NR tags. Outfitters want more. Both make sense for each of them personally. Who does a NR want to see win that one? What benefits us? More NR tags or less?

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grosventrehunter · Dec 27, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-17 AT 02:42PM (MST)[p]

Are you going to ask the residents to help you (NR) when they take half the NR tags and give them out as outfitter sponsered tags (New Mexico)? Or ask for residents help overturning the wilderness law. It's NR like you who make me give two shites about speaking out on stuff like outfitter sponsered tags, tag fee increases, being able to hunt the wilderness, etc, etc. But, I know most NR see the big picture and aren't in bed with WYOGA, or in your case Sy. I'm just trying to figure out who those bad people are that are so damn upset over selling GPS locations. I wonder if those best friends to the NR had anything to do with trying to write a law against it. Hmmmm

Founder · Dec 27, 2017

First of all, you're talking about a BIG IF with half NR tags going to outfitter sponsored tags.
As a NR, I wouldn't count on residents of Wyoming standing up for what tags are still available to us.

I'm sure resident hunters are lining up to speak against the wildnerness law or non-resident tag fees. LOL
If they have, they sure haven't made any difference so far. But what you said sounds good, just isn't real.

I think non-residents understand that while the outfitters association up there doesn't care much about the DIY non-resident hunters, their efforts to maintain tags for non-resident guided hunters benefits DIYers. The only other thing we have going for us that helps maintain tag numbers is the money we contribute. If it weren't for those two things, we'd be lucky to get any tags at all. It really isn't rocket science. I think it's just common sense.

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grosventrehunter · Dec 27, 2017

I have always said NR shouldn't be paying what they are paying for tags/points. As I've said all along resident need start paying their fair share. I'm all for raising the resident fees. Isn't that funny lol.

Founder · Dec 27, 2017

Well, we appreciate you saying that, but either it wasn't heard, you weren't talking to the right people or it was a minority opinion and the majority, or more powerful, got their way.
Is this something you said at a commission meeting, or just in general internet conversation?

Commission meetings are where non-residents need support, not just here in the forums. My feelings would sure change if the next commission meeting notes showed a bunch of residents asking the commission to reduce non-resident tag fees and do away with the wilderness law. My guess is, it'll be a cold day in hell before we see that in any meeting notes. I'd be shocked to ever hear that from any single person, nevermind numerous resident hunters asking for such a thing. I know you know what I mean.

I think I'm going to just have to hope the money we contribute and outfitters wanting to maintain NR tags helps us with hunting opportunity in Wyoming. I like hunting up there and want to continue doing so as long and as often as I can.

Expensive opportunity is better than no opportunity.

As long as I hear outfitters fighting against non-resident tag cuts, I see them a bit on my side versus the folks wanting to cut non-resident tags.

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elkassassin · Dec 27, 2017

G Ain't as Bad as Utah General Hunts!

But Keep Pounding it!

G Isn't Far Behind!

It Won't Be Long and a 22" PISSCUTTER will be known as a Trophy that will be put on the Wall!

grosventrehunter · Dec 27, 2017

Elkass do you even know what state G is located in.....

Deepcolor · Dec 27, 2017

Listen up boys! Old blue vein has spoken. ??

elkassassin · Dec 27, 2017

>Elkass do you even know what
>state G is located in.....
>

I Didn't Actually Know until DeepColor told me!

It Won't Be Long and a 22" PISSCUTTER will be known as a Trophy that will be put on the Wall!

wytex · Dec 27, 2017

Hey Founder , quit trying to speak for residents. Obviously you don't know how or what we think. All of my resident hunting friends, and myself, have no issue with NR hunters, just the chosen few who try to tell us how to manage our game.

Founder · Dec 27, 2017

I'm not speaking for anyone else, just sharing my opinion. I'd love however to see some commission meeting notes showing resident hunters going to bat to save non-resident tags or cut our fees or anything to benefit non-residents. Something like that would sure prove that I'm wrong and you could really rub it in. You'd show me!

Having "no issue with NR hunters" really doesn't mean much. That doesn't do much to salvage our opportunity to hunt YOUR game. But we do appreciate you having no problem with us. LOL

The outfitters association does go just a bit further than, "no issue with NR hunters". That is why I feel as I do.

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wytex · Dec 27, 2017

First off it's not my game it is the states game.
I do support NR quotas on tags and their granted privilege to hunt in our state. Our G&F would not be able to manage our game without the fees NR pay.
I have sent in comments supporting raising resident license fees a small percentage along with NR fees.
I do feel the increases pushed on NR is excessive .
I do not believe that you or outfitters or anyone should be guaranteed an income by the state via guaranteed or set aside hunting licenses, while I know that is not what you are pushing for.
However I do believe that you and anyone utilizing a state resource for income, game animals, minerals etc.. should pay for that be it through a license or royalty.
At one time we had a friend on the commission and I did speak with him specifically about an issue I had with commissioner and governors licenses. He listened and did in fact change his stance a bit, he donated his commissioner licenses for raffles instead of auctions. I made the point it sure would be nice if everyday folks could afford a chance to hunt one of those licenses instead of only those with deep pockets.
So if my "no issues" mean little to you , I won't lose any sleep over it and I'll continue to try and help out the NR hunters I can with reliable info , no charge.

jm77 · Dec 27, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-17 AT 06:34PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-17 AT 06:31?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-17 AT 06:18?PM (MST)

>I'm not speaking for anyone else,
>just sharing my opinion. I'd
>love however to see some
>commission meeting notes showing resident
>hunters going to bat to
>save non-resident tags or cut
>our fees or anything to
>benefit non-residents. Something like that
>would sure prove that I'm
>wrong and you could really
>rub it in. You'd show
>me!
>
>Having "no issue with NR hunters"
>really doesn't mean much. That
>doesn't do much to salvage
>our opportunity to hunt YOUR
>game. But we do appreciate
>you having no problem with
>us. LOL
>
>The outfitters association does go just
>a bit further than, "no
>issue with NR hunters". That
>is why I feel as
>I do.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Mulecreek spoke against the Wilderness guide law at the last Commission meeting in Lovell back in November.

He talks about it at the 1:18 mark.

You have been officially "showed".

Founder · Dec 27, 2017

I guess that counts as something. Everyone would need to listen to all the words and make the call themselves. It's a touch better than, "no issue with non-residents", but it sounded more like a suggestion to support his earlier stated agenda. I don't know. All should listen to that and make your own call.
You showed me! I guess...... I don't know if that really counts though. You can tell your friends that you showed me. LOL

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-17
>AT 06:34?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-17
>AT 06:31?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-17
>AT 06:18?PM (MST)
>
>>I'm not speaking for anyone else,
>>just sharing my opinion. I'd
>>love however to see some
>>commission meeting notes showing resident
>>hunters going to bat to
>>save non-resident tags or cut
>>our fees or anything to
>>benefit non-residents. Something like that
>>would sure prove that I'm
>>wrong and you could really
>>rub it in. You'd show
>>me!
>>
>>Having "no issue with NR hunters"
>>really doesn't mean much. That
>>doesn't do much to salvage
>>our opportunity to hunt YOUR
>>game. But we do appreciate
>>you having no problem with
>>us. LOL
>>
>>The outfitters association does go just
>>a bit further than, "no
>>issue with NR hunters". That
>>is why I feel as
>>I do.
>>
>>Brian Latturner
>>MonsterMuleys.com
>>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>>on Facebook!
>
>Mulecreek spoke against the Wilderness guide
>law at the last Commission
>meeting in Lovell back in
>November.

>He talks about it at
>the 1:18 mark.
>
>You have been officially "showed".

Brian Latturner
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grosventrehunter · Dec 27, 2017

You have been officially "showed". Too funny.

Hey founder when have you spoke in Utah about issuing more NR tags?

elkassassin · Dec 27, 2017

At about 2:35 Glad To See Wyoming 'Cares' about the Illegal OffRoad BS!

How much Poaching/Damage did this Guy do Prior to being Caught?

It Won't Be Long and a 22" PISSCUTTER will be known as a Trophy that will be put on the Wall!

elkassassin · Dec 27, 2017

He Did Get His FaceBook Pics!

I Guess that's all that matters anymore!

Founder · Dec 27, 2017

I never have, but what does that have to do with me liking the fact that outfitters in Wyoming are working to maintain our opportunity? I'm not asking you to do anything for me. I'm not even asking the outfitters to do me a solid. I've simply stated that the outfitters association has tried to maintain NR tag quotas and I like that.

I promise you, I'm not asking you to go to work on my behalf at all. If outfitters in Utah are trying to maintain NR tag quotas I would understand why, and I would also understand why a NR might like that.

I don't understand why you think I'm so out of line in liking what Wyoming Outfitters are doing to help NR hunters with opportunity....???

And oh yes, I've been shown! LOL

>You have been officially "showed". Too
>funny.
>
>Hey founder when have you spoke
>in Utah about issuing more
>NR tags?

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hossblur · Dec 28, 2017

I'm confused. Founder you kinda seem to have a foot in 3 doors at the same time.

Is your defense of WYOGA as Brian the DIY legend?

Is it Founder the pro guide.

Or whatever you are for SnS?

Seems as though you trying to cover all the bases.

Supporting WYOGA is no different than $fw. Your allowing a special interest group to set hunting regs/laws. Like most have pointed out, this is just a small step in them getting their true prize, OUTFITTER VOUCHERS.
You eat an elephant one bite at a time.

See Founder, on these arguments what once would have been your voice as a leader, is now muddied with all your "gas and groceries recouping". Seems like a pro scout with connections to "Wyomings largest" outfitter might benefit from WYOGA getting what they want.

Only guys that get hurt, are NR DIY guys the way I see it.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

wytex · Dec 28, 2017

Not trying to "show you" anything. Just don't like getting lumped into generalizations.

My use of the term "no issues" was ambiguous.

Great debate here.

I would love for folks to have the opportunity to fill their freezers with meat and have it be a trophy animal if that's what they are hunting for.

Tknez · Dec 28, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-17 AT 09:40AM (MST)[p]Wasn't the chosen one from God himself (Rob Wiley) the one that stood up and spoke of cutting non res tags in G and H last year?

Isn't he a major player in WYOGA?

Didn't you founder show your displeasure many times about him doing that on this website?

Did those tag cuts hurt most of the non residents chances of hunting those 2 areas? Of course not the ones that have the connections to hunt them every year already but most?

Sometimes it is hard to see the forest through the trees... I suppose it makes it even harder if you are one of those trees.

As you have been "showed" above many residents would fight more for the regular diy non resident then have any part of WYOGA and their ideas.

Go ahead and back them I really don't care at all. Hell why wouldn't you back them you are now a part of them I get it.

Founder · Dec 28, 2017

?Part of them?? LOL ...... Yep, I'll probably be voted president soon. You guys are funny.

Yes, Robb did take an extra 100 tags away from NR hunters last year. I didn't like to see that at all. Shortened season would have saved the bucks that the tag cuts were meant to save.

Other outfitters however were asking to keep NR tag cuts to an absolute minimum, and that I liked to see and always hope they will win that one.

It's sure wonderful that I'm now learning of all this support we non-residents have in Wyoming amongst resident hunters. There'll probably be a line out the door at committee meetings this year with residents demanding more non-resident tags, lower fees and to get rid of that wilderness law. I've been shown that all that love is there. It brings a tear to my eye. You guys love us........ Ha ha ha

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Tknez · Dec 28, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-17 AT 11:34AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-17 AT 11:33?AM (MST)

Were you not an employed guide from an outfitter that is a major member in WYOGA last year? Maybe I misunderstood but I thought that was the case.

hossblur · Dec 28, 2017

I'm not in favor of increasing NR tags( for deer) in Utah. As long as we are LQ here.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

grosventrehunter · Dec 28, 2017

I really think the GnF needs to eliminate point sharing/averaging. Maybe I will bring that up in the February meeting here in Casper.

Tknez · Dec 28, 2017

LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-17 AT 02:10PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-17 AT 02:10?PM (MST)

>I really think the GnF needs
>to eliminate point sharing/averaging. Maybe
>I will bring that up
>in the February meeting here
>in Casper.

This is something that would benefit the majority of non residents and residents also to some degree.

Who will it hurt? Mostly the nonresidents that have all the big time connections that are able to hunt certain areas every year even though it may take 5 or 6 years for the average Joe to draw and also WYOGA...

Grosventre I wonder who might get on here and tell you how you only have your self interest in mind and how you hate the average diy non resident for suggesting such a thing... Blah blah blah. ??

Founder · Dec 28, 2017

Oh please, please don't do it! Please have mercy. LOL
You guys are funny.

>I really think the GnF needs
>to eliminate point sharing/averaging. Maybe
>I will bring that up
>in the February meeting here
>in Casper.

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elkassassin · Dec 28, 2017

>I really think the GnF needs
>to eliminate point sharing/averaging. Maybe
>I will bring that up
>in the February meeting here
>in Casper.

Now That Ought to PISS the Pope off!

It Won't Be Long and a 22" PISSCUTTER will be known as a Trophy that will be put on the Wall!