100 does from A.I. to Oak Creeks

halfassed

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I am not usually one to stir the $hit but I heard something from a Utah DWR employee that bothered me. I was told the 100 does from A.I. are going to the Fillmore Oak Creek unit. Where the Director of the DWR owns private property. Can anyone else confirm or dismiss this.

This is upsetting as I have been pleading for a limited entry deer unit in the North. Yes we have the Crawfords where if there is heavy November snow we get a chance to hunt Wyoming deer.
I would think those deer would do the public a better service on the Newfoundland range 100% public, minus test range. The Wellsville range, where the largest NT buck ever in Utah came from. Or set aside the North Cache elk unit as a limited entry deer unit, they definitely need more deer in that unit.
What are your thoughts start a new unit with them, take them to a herd that desperately needs them, or take them to a established herd?
 
>I am not usually one to
>stir the $hit but I
>heard something from a Utah
>DWR employee that bothered me.
> I was told the
>100 does from A.I. are
>going to the Fillmore Oak
>Creek unit. Where the
>Director of the DWR owns
>private property. Can anyone
>else confirm or dismiss this.
>
>
>This is upsetting as I have
>been pleading for a limited
>entry deer unit in the
>North. Yes we have
>the Crawfords where if there
>is heavy November snow we
>get a chance to hunt
>Wyoming deer.
>I would think those deer would
>do the public a better
>service on the Newfoundland range
>100% public, minus test range.
> The Wellsville range, where
>the largest NT buck ever
>in Utah came from.
>Or set aside the North
>Cache elk unit as a
>limited entry deer unit, they
>definitely need more deer in
>that unit.
>What are your thoughts start a
>new unit with them, take
>them to a herd that
>desperately needs them, or take
>them to a established herd?
>

You Heard Wrong!

He's taking a 100 Bucks!:D










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I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
 
Not sure how accurate your info is, but I know they are moving sheep from AI to the Oak Creek area. Those transplants have nothing to do with "who" owns the land but everything to do with suitable habitat. When an animal gets uprooted, it needs a matching environment, in order to survive.
I am guessing if deer are also going down there, it's because the area is similar in habitat to AI.
Even if the director has land down that way, I am sure that would have nothing to do with such a move.
I hear your desire for more LE deer units. I'd like to see some as well.
 
Im a little confused by your post. How would 100 does being transplanted create a limited entry unit? They transplant deer to areas that have struggling deer herds to try and help boost herd numbers not to turn that area into a LE unit.
 
I know the Oak Creek deer herd is struggling. Does it justify a deer transplant? Only if there is adequate forage and water and the predators are under control.

What scares me the most is that they are transplanting some the New Foundlands to Oak Creek where I have heard there is a decent population of lions. Nothing is harder on sheep than lions, other than domestic sheep diseases. I hope my source of information is wrong about the lions. I would love to see another sheep unit in Utah.

I would second the thought of making the Wellsville range a Limited Entry unit. That mountain is steep, thick and tall. I think there could be huge potential for that range. What did that big non typical score? I knew it was the biggest, just can't remember. If the Wellsvilles were made limited entry, the bucks on there could actually reach maturity. I swear every two point on the mountain gets shot at every opener.
 
RE: 100 does from A.I. to Oak Creek

I hope my information is wrong. Maybe I should have done this in two posts. 100 does rumor and Need for Northern limited entry deer unit.


LB Newfoundland's are a identical match with the A.I. rocky, sage, cheat grass, and surrounded by salt.



PH largest NT buck is 330 1/8" 21x28 by Alton Hunsaker in 1943.
 
the director of the dwr is from delta but he doesn't own any private land on that unit. As far as lion populations on the oak creek, they haven't filled the quota on that unit in 5 years. I spend a ton of time on the unit and a lion track is sometimes hard to find. Oh yes there are lions to be found but it is not over populated with them. The range has had 3 huge fires on it in the last 20yrs and the range is alot like the AI unit. They think the deer would do very well there just because the habitat is so much like AI.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-13 AT 12:38PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-13 AT 12:36?PM (MST)

My .02!

The Newfoundlands are ideal for AI deer. Same general habitat, sagebrush species, elevation, latitude, solar orientation, human encroachment, human traffic, predation, isolation, weather and climate. The Pilots are a close second.

The Oak Creek Range and the Wellsville Range (which isn't even on the list) are probably the worst and second worst places for AI deer. Winter range contains agricultural lands, high speed day and night traffic and human and domestic animal encroachment of all kinds as well as substantial elk herds which are all foreign to AI deer. I don't know about sagebrush and forage species, but I can't imagine it being very close either given the differences in latitude, elevation, weather and climate. I don't know about predation, but it also couldn't be any better. And summer range isn't even close to being the same. A simple look at the topo maps says a lot.

As for new LE units, we already got enough of them! In fact, they're ALL limited entry units now. And 1943 on the Wellsvilles is long gone (I was 2 years old.) and we'll never get it back. Besides, we have the Henrys, Vernon and the Pauns for the next world record.
 
It's actually 200 does. And there are 5 different areas that they are looking at to plant them. Newfoundlands would be the best bet cause there are no lions and its the same habitat as the island. The sheep from the island have done well there. Pilot mtn would be the worst place to put them. The guy that just bought the ranch on the south end has had the F&G shooting elk out of his fields with a spot light all fall. So im sure the deer would meet the same fate.
 
>It's actually 200 does. And there
>are 5 different areas that
>they are looking at to
>plant them. Newfoundlands would be
>the best bet cause there
>are no lions and its
>the same habitat as the
>island. The sheep from the
>island have done well there.
>Pilot mtn would be the
>worst place to put them.
> The guy that just
>bought the ranch on the
>south end has had the
>F&G shooting elk out of
>his fields with a spot
>light all fall. So im
>sure the deer would meet
>the same fate.

I didn't know about the joker on Pilot Mountain, so I'll withdraw my suggestion for that one. DWR probably ought to withdraw it from their list as well.

Unfortunately, that same attitude may exist in other sites also. The DWR has to fight with somebody no matter what they do. Prior to the transplants from the Parowan Front, there were people in Parowan, Paragonah and Summit that wanted the deer out of their front and back yards, but didn't want them killed. But the DWR also got lots of complaints when the helicopter started flying around to pick the deer up in the hills and fields nearby.
 
I agree that animals that are currently populating an area that is open for public viewing (and public hunting technically) should not be moved to an area that is in any way private property. Wrong, on every level.

Move 100 does from 100% public land TO 100% public land.

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-13 AT 01:51PM (MST)[p]
Tinenut, is correct. Almost 100% public on the oak creeks. This unit had an awesome population of deer in the 60's. I'm told that blue tounge claimed a lot of deer, not to mention the unit was over hunted in the 70's & 80's. Toss in a couple fires, the last of which burnt almost 80% of the mountain, and it's not an understatement to say this unit has had it's struggles. I think the oak creeks would be an excellent place for a transplant.

elkfromabove

There are not substantial elk herds on the oak creeks. You must have them confused with the pahvant fillmore elk. The DWR has been trying to eliminate what little elk are left on the unit. It's probably the worst LE elk hunt in the state due to very low populations.Furthermore the small elk herd on the unit lives off the east side in the thick P&J country. The biggest populations of deer are on top and off to the west. Agricultural has never been an issue with the deer. I have relatives that own large tracts of agricultural in Oak City and they don't have issues with the deer. Lastly, the roads surrounding the mountain do not see a lot of traffic. There is not a lot of deer being hit on these roads when compared to other units.
 
Sounds like I got some bad info.

This is the Hunsaker Buck 330 1/8. I hope Alton don't mind. I love that old lever gun.

3728hunsakerbuck.jpg
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-13
>AT 01:51?PM (MST)

>
>
>Tinenut, is correct. Almost 100% public
>on the oak creeks. This
>unit had an awesome population
>of deer in the 60's.
>I'm told that blue tounge
>claimed a lot of deer,
>not to mention the unit
>was over hunted in the
>70's & 80's. Toss in
>a couple fires, the last
>of which burnt almost 80%
>of the mountain, and it's
>not an understatement to say
>this unit has had it's
>struggles. I think the oak
>creeks would be an excellent
>place for a transplant.
>
>elkfromabove
>
>There are not substantial elk herds
>on the oak creeks. You
>must have them confused with
>the pahvant fillmore elk. The
>DWR has been trying to
>eliminate what little elk are
>left on the unit. It's
>probably the worst LE elk
>hunt in the state due
>to very low populations.Furthermore the
>small elk herd on the
>unit lives off the east
>side in the thick P&J
>country. The biggest populations of
>deer are on top and
>off to the west. Agricultural
>has never been an issue
>with the deer. I have
>relatives that own large tracts
>of agricultural in Oak City
>and they don't have issues
>with the deer. Lastly, the
>roads surrounding the mountain do
>not see a lot of
>traffic. There is not a
>lot of deer being hit
>on these roads when compared
>to other units.

Since I personally don't know the unit as well as you seem to, you'll get no strong argument from me on some of your observations. I took my elk information from a person who hunts elk on the unit and my agricultural info from another person who lives in Delta and has property east of town. Even though I may be off base with these two items, we only need to compare the two units with each other to see there are enough differences to be concerned. IMO, there are better places to put those deer and that's what the OP asked for.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-13 AT 09:58AM (MST)[p]The Oak Creeks were taken out of LE Elk unit status last year.
The reason was because the DWR was paying out much more in depredation payments to agriculture owners than they could justify. It went through a long process which included private, federal, state reps. They decided it was best to propose to the RACs that it be taken out of LE Elk designation.
 

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