SO what do you do with "Transparency"?

Tristate

Long Time Member
Messages
8,703
Okydoky, we had a nice little discussion with very little honesty about why certain people demand "transparency". Now lets see if some people can be honest about what's next.

Lets say suddenly Hawkeye's dreams come true. Suddenly complete and perfect "transparency" of SFW is achieved which somehow can keep all parties happy. Yes! Hawkeye can wake up every morning and log into SFW's corporate bank account and he has access to all of their emails and their kid's school records too.

SO WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO WITH THAT KNOWLEDGE?

What is it good for now? How does it suddenly enrich your life having this information? How does it change the course of big game management in Utah?

Guys this is your chance to honestly tell the readership on Monster muleys how your crusade is going to change the world.
 
>HOW MANY FRIKEN TIMES DO YOU
>HAVE TO DIG THIS DEAD
>HORSE UP, AND BEAT IT
>TO DEATH !!!!


I can't believe the boss doesn't end this BS on his website and toss this guy in the gutter!
 
As best I can tell birdhntr, no one has ever asked them this question. Did you type that response on the other thread that was hijacked and turned into a 200+ post about "transparency"?
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-18 AT 08:45AM (MST)[p]Tri, even you know the answer to childish questions. But I will play along in an effort to educate others who may sincerely be sorting through these issues.

Sportsmen would be able to see what portion of the $10 million in Expo fees that has gone unaccounted for over the last 12 years was used for actual conservation work . . . or to use Don Peay's words at the 2005 Wildlife Board Meeting, how much of the money actually "went onto the ground." Besides the fact that SFW promised sportsmen a "full accounting of how the application fees are spent," there should always be transparency when dealing with public assets.

If what SFW says is true (that 90%+ of that money is being used for actual conservation projects) then the long-promised accounting will shut all of us naysayers up. On the other hand, if the accounting shows that SFW/MDF used that $10 million to fund their organization, pay salaries, pay bonuses, pay consultants, etc., then we as sportsmen can use that information to push for changes and improvements to the system. Without the accounting, sportsmen are left in the dark and must rely on the reassurances of Birdman and others that everything is on the up and up. It is pretty simple but you already knew that.

And for the record, I don't give a hoot how SFW spends its other moneys that are not generated from our public tags. That is between SFW and its members/donors.

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
Looks like Little Mans Syndrome is flaring up in the little man.






No estas en mexico ahora, entonces escoja tu basura
chancho sucio.
 
I want it so I can see how little you actually sold your soul for to come and fight all their fights online. I can't imagine it was very much.
 
But in reality, I don't want access to all of that. Nobody does, and nobody has ever asked for that. So speaking of not being honest...

I've said time and time again, I don't want to inspect their records as related to the expo tags and fees. But I want someone to, and if that independent audit tells me everything is proper, I'm good with that. I don't need to see it personally. But I'm not going to Birdman's word for it, and I'm certainly not going to take your word for it.
 
I'd be a lot more interested to know what you're getting out of THIS crusade, or attention seeking behavior, or whatever mental illness your doctor defines you with.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
his dr.defined it as Jealousbutthurtism. The boy can't stand the fact that we can hunt when or where we want without having to beg our massa's for permission.
 
Allrighty we actually got a couple of pretty honest answers. Thanks guys.


First Hawkeye,

Your response is the first seemingly honest response I have seen from you over these last couple of threads. I really want to discuss your thoughts but I need a clarification first regarding your post. Do you hve an expectation of the funds generated by SFW using the expo draw should be kept in completely separate accounts held and managed by SFW and no other co-mingled funds?


Vanilla,

You wrote, "But in reality, I don't want access to all of that. Nobody does, and nobody has ever asked for that".

In reality we don't know. No body knows what each of these people's definition of "transparency" really is. That was one of the good points brought up by my last thread. And you specifically have admitted that "transparency" is nothing more that a "buzz word".

Last you state, " I don't want to inspect their records as related to the expo tags and fees. But I want someone to, and if that independent audit tells me everything is proper, I'm good with that. I don't need to see it personally".

Who would you like to pay for that audit? Are you volunteering that you would personally pay for that? Do you not find it ironic that you are much more eager to pay for CPA's digging for dirt than you are spending that money on some form of conservation????? Maybe you would trust the good word of the Auditor but would everyone else? I doubt that.
 
Thanks for the compliment, Tri. Why don't you try answering a question? What do you think Don Peay meant when he assured concerned sportsmen that "There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.?

That statement seems pretty simple to me. SFW should show how much money was generated from the tags each year and then account for how each dollar was spent. That "full accounting" would obviously show how much on the Expo tag money actually "went onto the ground? each year. Oops, there I go again quoting SFW's own statements and promises. Sorry for being so divisive, dishonest and unreasonable.

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
Hawkeye, I need you to answer the question regarding separate accounts or co-mingling of funds and what your expectations are for those expo dollars.

But I will answer your question. That quote literally means absolutely nothing to me. I don't know Don Peay. I have never had a discussion with Don Peay. Therefore I have zero reference to judge his statements or make assumptions about them. I am almost totally logical and very very rarely will I make an assumption based on words someone else says. If I want clarification regarding a statement someone makes I ask them very specific questions. I stay away from words like "forever", "never", "transparency", and most of all "fair" unless they are used in the most literal physical uses. I in no way shape nor form will I base decisions or advise others based on a statement like that unless I get very specific clarification from the source. So when I hear a sentence like that I don't think anything. It means nothing to me. Doesn't mean that person is lying or dishonest. It just means that sentence doesn't mean anything to me and I definitely would not base the next five years of my life founding a crusade upon it.
 
We have a state auditor?s office that already is paid to do this stuff. It's actually why the office exists. Or the state could contract with an auditing firm if they wanted. It wouldn't be that expensive. Maybe auction a deer tag to cover the costs...oh, wait.

And yes, I expect the funds to be held separately. Absolutely 100% I do. Ask your three fake attorney friends what happens when they co-mingle funds.
 
?I am almost totally logical and very very rarely will I make an assumption based on words someone else says.? -tri

You are delusional. You literally have zero self-awareness. You literally do this is almost every single post you put on this forum.
 
I almost fell out of my chair laughing when Tri stated that "I am almost totally logical and very very rarely will I make an assumption based on words someone else says."

Tri, the reality is everyone knows what SFW meant when Don Peay stated "There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? He promised that SFW fully account for how the money was spent - every dollar of it. Don't wear yourself out over-analyzing a simple statement.

In addition, as Utah sportsmen know, there are already rules and processes in place as to how such an accounting would occur. All you have to do is look at the parallel process that applies to monies raised from Conservation Permits or the 30% of the Expo Tag monies that are currently accounted for. Those monies are kept in separate accounts (no commingling), they are earmarked for approved projects, and they are accounted for by the groups and then audited by the DWR.

The irony is that during the March 31, 2005 Wildlife Board Meeting where the Expo tags were first approved, the Wildlife Board passed a motion instructing the DWR to include a provision in the contract with the groups (SFW/MDF) hosting the Expo requiring "annual audits be accomplished in a similar way that is done for conservation tags.? Wildlife Board Minutes dated 3/31/2005. For some crazy reason, that provision never made it into the original contract between the DWR and SFW/MDF or any of the subsequent contracts. Had the DWR done what they were instructed to due by the Board back in 2005, we would not be having this discussion today.

If any of you are interested in learning more about what happened in 2005-06 and how we got to where we are today, I posted on this topic a few years ago and included copies of the actual Wildlife Board minutes. Enjoy! See: http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-b..._thread&om=19745&forum=DCForumID5&archive=yes

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
>?I am almost totally logical and
>very very rarely will I
>make an assumption based on
>words someone else says.? -tri
>
>
>You are delusional. You literally have
>zero self-awareness. You literally do
>this is almost every single
>post you put on this
>forum.


You?re outta line son. Tri will ask the questions and grade the answers. What's the matter with you?

4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
?You?re outta line son. Tri will ask the questions and grade the answers. What's the matter with you??

1911- you are correct and I offer my apologies for steppping out of my lane. I'll wait for further direction from the great one.
 
>?You?re outta line son. Tri will
>ask the questions and grade
>the answers. What's the matter
>with you??
>
>1911- you are correct and I
>offer my apologies for steppping
>out of my lane. I'll
>wait for further direction from
>the great one.

It's ok. In the future just remember to always yield the floor to the chubby ones.


14788945f8f9d6a9f42ecbeda439f6493e807.jpeg



4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
Without an actual audit, no one knows anything, including Birdman and the other members.

Your from Houston, Enron was the big dog in Texas, every one wanted to work there, buy their stock, until one day a secretary showed the world what was in the books.

The reality is, its less costly to SFW reputation to suffer the negative hits, than to open up, and invite more. They very easily could have stopped all this on year one with a simple audit, actively fighting against it shows something to hide. Doing So now costs the the org. A scandal with the money costs them the expo as well, sponsors would run away.

Kinda like old WLH and Robyn. Just shoot that sheep illegally, claim no knowledge, take a hit from a handful who heard about it. No proof means its only a myth. WLH gets paid, Robyn can continue pretending she's a hunter....

Then BLAAAAAAAMMMMMM. Myth turns to fact, everyone knows what really happened, DWR has to take the hit to protect a big money donor and the embarrassment of that tag holder being charged.

So. Simple answer, showing that SFW leadership was using funds outside of what they were to be used for would hopefully lead to public outcry to end the special interest welfare tag auction once and for all.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hawkeye,

Thanks again for answering. Unfortunately you are making a lot of assumptions.

First you say this.

"Tri, the reality is everyone knows what SFW meant"

No Hawkeye they don't. As much as you wouldn't like to think there is a wide spectrum of people out there who think very differently from each other, and YOU DON'T REPRESENT EVERYONE. Neither do I. Second, you feel that is a promise that you get to have copies of that information. IT ISN'T. Hawkeye, I guarantee you there is a "full accounting" of how every dollar is spent within my company. THAT'S HOW YOU RUN A BUSINESS. Is that accounting provided to you? Nope. Guess what next year there will be a full accounting here. You ain't gonna see it either. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Doesn't mean I am being deceptive.

SFW is a successful company. I don't know of any successful company that doesn't produce a "full accounting" every year. Don't wear yourself out going on a crusade against someone over one sentence.

Now you talk about how the %30 is accounted and you assume that the other %70 can and should be done the same way. But you didn't answer the question. Are the %70 monies co-mingled in general accounts or is it set in a completely separate account currently? You don't seem to understand there are different rules for different money held in different accounts by different entities. If you do understand that then you need to make that part of your crusade that YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC RIGHT FOR MONEY TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR IN THE EXACT SAME WAY THAT THESE %30 MONIES ARE ACCOUNTED. Be careful though because you may be poking one hellavu hornet's nest with corporate America.


Next you state this.

"Had the DWR done what they were instructed to due by the Board back in 2005, we would not be having this discussion today."

Have you actually investigated why? Could it be possible that the DWR discovered they can't legally do that? If the wildlife board recommends that the DWR wipe out mule deer in the state do you think the DWR is going to do it?


Last you finish with this.

"If any of you are interested in learning more about what happened in 2005-06 "


THIRTEEN YEARS! THIRTEEN FRICKEN YEARS! We have been listening to you and a handful of other people whine for thirteen wasted years. A decade of hijacked thread and buzz words. People call me a troll on here but are you kidding me????? This horse could have had a colt and you could have beat that horse to death too in that amount of time. Meanwhile the object of your hate has grown and strengthened and kept right on going. THE SYSTEM IS WORKING AND YOU AND THE HATE SQUAD HAVE BEEN STUCK IN THE SAME RUT FOR YEARS. Can you imagine the good you could have done in that time.

SFW is doing wildlife projects and conservation and you are crying about transparency. SFW is lobbying and you are crying about transparency. SFW is bringing millions and millions of dollars of public and private revenue to your state and you keep crying about transparency. SFW is making it obvious to non-hunters that hunting wildlife has a fiscal benefit to all citizens and you still cry about transparency. DO you know why over a decade later nothing has changed to be the way you want it to be??????? Because it works and people don't trust a hater chasing nickels and dimes.
 
Tri...you continue to conflate how a private business with private capital operates vs. how a business receiving public resources should operate. While it's very clear to any reasonable person that sfw lied about being transparent (see hawks quotes), it's Utah officials that allow this kind of bs that should be held most accountable.
 
LMAO!!!!!

Laying awake at night obsessing over Hawkeye again, huh Try.

You have Hawkeye on your mind all day and night don't ya Try.

Hawkeye owns you, boy.

Btw Try, why did you take down your Wade Lemon the sheep poacher thread?
 
Classic tristate. He demands answers to his questions and but he refuses to answer any questions or put any effort into reviewing information provided to him. Tri, did you even bother looking at the link I posted and reviewing the minutes from the WB meeting in March 2005? Of course not. And even if you did, your reading comprehension is so poor you would not understand or retain anything you read.

The reality is the WB instructed the DWR to include an audit provision in its contract with the groups similar to what existed at the time with the conservation permits but somehow that provision was never included in the contract. Plus, the groups promised transparency at the time they were lobbying for the tags. So what changed? And why are the groups so strongly resisting transparency 13 years alter?

Additionally, Tri claims that nothing has changed in the last 13 years as a result of sportsmen like me and you expressing concern. Wrong again. SFW and MDF raked in roughly $5.5 in the first six years of the Expo (2007-2012) and failed to account for any of it. Despite the promises made up front, we don't know if one red cent of that money was spent on actual conservation projects.

After sportsmen got involved and began demanding accountability, SFW and MDF reluctantly agreed to earmark 30% of the Expo tag monies for actual conservation and to account for those monies starting in 2013. As a result, over the next 5 years (2013-2017), almost $1.9 million was earmarked fort and spent on actual conservation projects, which was the purpose for these tags in the beginning. This minor success is a step in the right direction but it never would have happened without sportsmen getting involved and expressing their concerns. Unfortunately, the remaining 70% of the Expo tag monies have not been accounted for.

Finally, Tri has absolutely no clue how the WB and the DWR operate. The WB is the governing body of the DWR, and the DWR is supposed to follow the rules and directives adopted by the WB. To say that the WB could not impose an accounting requirement on the DWR and the groups is laughable. Stick to your taxidermy business Tristate. All of those glue fumes that you have inhaled over the years have clearly taken a toll!

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-09-18 AT 09:38AM (MST)[p]It's funny to me that someone that claims to be so knowledgeable about all this makes the statement that those pressing the state on the expo and SFW have not made any changes.

There was a big change made based upon public outcry to the monies received from expo tag applications. I'd think someone in the know as much as tri would know that?

Edit: Should have read Hawkeye's post before replying. I wasn't going to spoon feed him so specifically, because I like to watch him squirm a bit trying to figure out the facts and what people that are actually educated are talking about. He probably would have claimed to have just sat down at dinner with 3 wildlife board members that told him nothing has changed. But Hawkeye is much nicer than me and really wants others to understand the issues, where I'm pretty content at just laughing at tri continue to make an idiot out of himself.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-09-18 AT 09:51AM (MST)[p]Tri- go ahead and disagree and argue at every opportunity you can about things you know nothing about. Your posts and threads are comical and believe me, they don't help your cause. They show how out of touch you are with reality. But go ahead and keep posting. It's quite entertaining


Here Tri- this is you buddy!

https://youtu.be/KrRt_ob3VWw



"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
Try, that's called being owned .

How does it feel to be owned boy?

Btw, why did you delete your Wade Lemon poaches sheep thread?
 
Hawkeye,

You are getting desperate. You haven't asked me any thing here that I haven't answered. I know how the wildlife board operates. You fail to understand what I am telling you. The wildlife board can make all kinds of recommendations but when it has to be put down on paper there are all sorts of governing bodies that can tell them they don't have the right or it can even be illegal to do something and therefore the plan gets changed. And that may have nothing to do with SFW or that specific case but instead is there to protect businesses all over the US or in your state. That's what I am trying to tell you. The wildlife board isn't the supreme leadership of all things wildlife.

Now you go off talking "transparency" this and "transparency" that again and telling the lemmings that these people "reluctantly" gave up %30 of the money because of your crusade. I guess if that's what you need to feed your ego go for it.

Last I love this gem you typed.

"SFW and MDF raked in roughly $5.5 in the first six years of the Expo (2007-2012) and failed to account for any of it."

DO you know what's funny about that statement? If they didn't account for any of it you wouldn't know it was 5.5 million.

Hossblur,

You might want to go learn about ENRON. They were giving reported financials as required. But that's what you don't understand about people who are crooks. They are usually at face value the most "transparent" people you meet. The difference is all the transparent figures they give you are BS. That's one reason I think a lot of this "transparency" talk is laughable.


BUT THANK YOU HOSSBLUR! I applaud your honesty. You have made one of the most honest statements on any of these related threads, AND ITS SOLID GOLD!

"So. Simple answer, showing that SFW leadership was using funds outside of what they were to be used for would hopefully lead to public outcry to end the special interest welfare tag auction once and for all."


See folks some of these people are willing to admit this doesn't have anything to do with money for wildlife. It doesn't have anything to do with conservation. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE WELFARE OF BIG GAME. It's all about the fight for distribution of big game tags. HOSSBLUR JUT ADMITTED IT.

Listen Hawkeye and others, you are betting on a dishonest backdoor plan. Yall want to dissolve a system you don't agree with but you don't have any noble or righteous reason to do it. SO instead you think you can throw buzz words around like "accountability" and "transparency" and you will defeat your Goliath. You won't get what you want until you start being honest about your intentions.
 
Try, you are a special kind of stupid. Seriously!!! You get owned and schooled on here time and time again and yet you claim that nothing happened. Have you read your last comment? Wow, just wow. Good luck. BTW, does your head hurt from spinning in circles? Do you get any sleep at night after you get owned by the guys on here? I know you have an obsession with Hawkeye. Maybe if you ask politely, he will autograph a picture and send it to you. Maybe even with a bit a smell goods on it. You never know.
 
I've have had my fun for the day. I post on these threads to hear the opinions of others and help educate others on these issues. And frankly, I enjoy discussing the issues with others who have different opinions. However, my father taught me long ago to never argue with an idiot -- he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience!

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
I bet you want to quit Hawkeye. Why do you think I get all this hate directed at me for these posts. Two of the lemmings openly confessed this has ZERO to do with "transparency" and everything to do with hating the expo and the tags that are distributed using it.

The minute the truth, WHICH YOU WERE TO SCARED TO TALK ABOUT, starts to come out you want to call names and run away. You don't answer questions about co-mingling of funds. You don't answer questions about what this is all about. You talked like every two faced politician I ever met, and your entire argument is based on one stupid sentence a person said which isn't given with any other context or perspective. WHy do you think Topgun keeps screaming at everyone to ignore me???? Yall are scared the truth will keep leaking out about what is behind your zealous crusade.


Hey I have one more question for you. Why do you think all this is going on over a few hundred thousand dollars a year? I just want you to give me one good reason a group of white collar professionals would risk their names, reputations, and what seems to be their life work over a few hundred thousand dollars a year?????? We aren't just talking about a single person. We are talking about a big organization. They are scrutinized by all sorts of regulatory groups but somehow no one in government and no one within the organization comes out and says "These guys are crooks and I have the books to prove it". All of it over a few hundred thousand dollars?????????

I don't make near that much money personally but I'm not going to risk my business and reputation over a few hundred thousand dollars. No way. No how. But somehow yall actually believe yall will discover something about these people, demonize them to the media and government and get your precious tags back. THAT'S GREED.
 
What is your dog in this fight? Why do you insist on trespassing individual?s transparency for this while screaming about right to privacy?
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-09-18 AT 03:58PM (MST)[p]My dog in this fight is the wildlife. To many this is their past time passion. Sure it is attached to their heritage and their culture. But they have completely lost touch with the reality and gravity of the situation that they are in.

Just a few of these people are honest enough to admit this is about fighting for a big game tag. It ain't about "transparency". It ain't about crimes. It's closer to class warfare than anything else.

I am absolutely sick of coming on here and watching thread after thread about the same stupid dishonest argument or even worse good threads being hijacked for the same stupid dishonest argument. But not a one of you actually talk as seriously about things that will aid big game in your state.

YOUR ENTIRE WILDLIFE MODEL IS OUTDATED AND BREAKING. The reason people are fighting on this forum is because they know it is falling apart and they don't know how to fix it. People on this sight need to quit fighting over a deer tag and realize if they don't get their crap together there ain't going to be any tags to fight over.

You want to know the difference between watching what has gone on here with this bullcrap "transparency" war and watching a bunch of spoiled kids??????? IN THIRTEEN YEARS THE KIDS GROW UP AND REALIZE IT WAS STUPID.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-09-18 AT 04:48PM (MST)[p]You can argue why some fight for what they believe in til the cows come home.
I can see what I'm fighting for even if you don't and I owe you no explanation. These things affect the wildlife in my state directly. You can argue your definition of transparency and fair but many don't see it the way you do.
That's a fact.
Some taxidermist a thousand miles away isn't going to convince me otherwise. You can keep your privatized grounds in TX while we fight special interest groups who are more concerned about putting dollars in their bank accounts than putting the majority of their funds back towards Utah?s wildlife. 30% is not more than 70% or 100%. No matter how you cut it. This group also won't take a stand against the sell of our remaining public lands.
I will continue to fight for Utah?s wildlife and hunters access. Because I believe our wildlife deserve more than 30%. That's what I fight for. Continue to assume that you know why people fight these groups that can't keep a promise. Who use a public resource to profit from and lied to the public to get the opportunity to benefit from that resource.




"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-09-18 AT 05:03PM (MST)[p]Billybob,

You already said why you are against this. Your words. No need to change your story.

I actually have some respect for you being one of the honest ones and not trying to be two faced about it.

I wouldn't call trash talking on the internet "fighting for wildlife". I guess it can be interpreted many ways though kind of like "transparency".
 
Tri. Utah gives out 500 or so " conservstion" tags. We are not #1 in any wildlife category. Or 2 or 3. The "investment" made has failed.

Results matter


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
I don't know why y?all even engage.
This is all about attention and drama. If this subject weren't the catalyst he would just find another. The subject is not really the point with this guy.
 
>I don't know why y?all even
>engage.
>This is all about attention and
>drama. If this subject weren't
>the catalyst he would just
>find another. The subject is
>not really the point with
>this guy.

Truer words were never spoken because it's all about the poster and not the actual facts stated by other members in a thread that are indisputable, but yet he continues making his idiotic, senseless posts.
 
As long as these guys keep talking about their real hate for a tag distribution system while attacking it with lies, I SUCCEED.

If you want to measure Success for you and your wildlife ask the DWR what it's goals are? I am sure you won't get an answer of being the number 1 state to hunt mule deer in.

Do you have any other vague questions gunny or did I give you enough of a vague answer? If I did then I succeeded.
 

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