Pahvant deer in bad shape

It has been on a steady decline since 2004. A lot of southern region tag holders hammered it when a guy could go in any southern unit and hunt. The 30 deer unit now will really help if the dwr will not change it.
 
Hunted the opening weekend....saw more deer than last year. Last year saw three mountain lions in same canyon......probably not helping! Hunted the south end few miles away from white pine peak, had muzzy tag for elk in 2012 and hunted chalk creek area.....saw probably handful of deer the whole trip.....
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-26-14 AT 04:49PM (MST)[p]>Hunted the opening weekend....saw more deer
>than last year. Last
>year saw three mountain lions
>in same canyon......probably not helping!
> Hunted the south end
>few miles away from white
>pine peak, had muzzy tag
>for elk in 2012 and
>hunted chalk creek area.....saw probably
>handful of deer the whole
>trip.....


I will say that all the does we saw had either a fawn or twins with her.....caught many on the trail cma's we had down there! Might be a good sign.
 
This unit has everything it needs to have trophy deer and lots of them. That mountain has some hell hole places that rarely see people, great habitat summer/winter. The reason the deer population is so pathetic compared to what it could and should be is so obvious it isn't even funny. Can you say LION PROBLEM!!!!! I have seen numerous lions on that mountain and the same goes for anyone that has spent any reasonable time down there plain and simple. Any houndsman sniveling about lions being hard to find needs to make a pahvant run. If you cant find em on that mountain time to get some new dogs.
 
>This unit has everything it needs
>to have trophy deer and
>lots of them. That mountain
>has some hell hole places
>that rarely see people, great
>habitat summer/winter. The reason the
>deer population is so pathetic
>compared to what it could
>and should be is so
>obvious it isn't even funny.
>Can you say LION PROBLEM!!!!!
>I have seen numerous lions
>on that mountain and the
>same goes for anyone that
>has spent any reasonable time
>down there plain and simple.
>Any houndsman sniveling about lions
>being hard to find needs
>to make a pahvant run.
>If you cant find em
>on that mountain time to
>get some new dogs.

What he said......
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-14 AT 06:44AM (MST)[p]PSC post a picture of your bull from 2012. My dad has the muzzy elk tag this year. He's up there in age so our opportunities are limited but we expect to have a good hunt.

In regards to the deer, the unit is definitely not what it has been. I caught a couple big cats on my trail cams in two different areas. The DWR hit the coyotes pretty hard last year flying a helicopter around. I agree the permit numbers on this unit need to stay level and not increase right now. They also need to build some of the wildlife underpasses from Scipio to Kanosh. The deer used to migrate out towards the Pahvant Butte. Over the past couple decades I-15 has become so busy it was fenced off years ago and I truly believe this has impacted the amount of deer this unit can hold.
 
This is why the DWR went to all the units so they could manage each one according to its needs. Sounds like this unit is in need of some major help. I think many of the units are in a similar need of help. Lets see how they respond.
 
This unit has gone constantly downhill ever since the freeway was built. It makes it hard for the deer to move far enough west on a bad winter. Also, the predators are thick and hungry there. Just think how many deer each of the many lions takes down each year, not to mention the bears and coyotes.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-14
>AT 06:44?AM (MST)

>
>PSC post a picture of your
>bull from 2012. My
>dad has the muzzy elk
>tag this year. He's up
>there in age so our
>opportunities are limited but we
>expect to have a good
>hunt.
>
>In regards to the deer, the
>unit is definitely not what
>it has been. I caught
>a couple big cats on
>my trail cams in two
>different areas. The DWR
>hit the coyotes pretty hard
>last year flying a helicopter
>around. I agree the
>permit numbers on this unit
>need to stay level and
>not increase right now.
>They also need to build
>some of the wildlife underpasses
>from Scipio to Kanosh. The
>deer used to migrate out
>towards the Pahvant Butte. Over
>the past couple decades I-15
>has become so busy it
>was fenced off years ago
>and I truly believe this
>has impacted the amount of
>deer this unit can hold.
>

If you go to the photo gallery for the 2012 big buck, big bull contest and go to page three it's on there......look for whopper southern Utah bull.....Tyler Grundy
 
I've been seeing a bunch of deer the last couple of years. If hunters would stop shooting all the young bucks it would help the unit bounce back. I don't see the amount of mature bucks that I used to. I have noticed that the bears have a huge effect on the deer herd on the pahvant.
 
This question isn't meant to come off as a dicky one. Just curious what makes you think the bears are effecting the deer?
 
Bears don't have an effect the deer herd. I was just blaming something else instead of hunters without will power to pass on a buck.
 
I have hunted this unit for the last 15 years and would say deer numbers aren't way down from my first year. I see the same amount of deer as day one the only difference is finding a mature buck. We can blame lions,coyotes,bears,winter kill,etc. However, non of those prefer a doe over a buck right? So the only possible reason for decline in mature bucks would be Hunters right? Way too much hunting pressure on this unit and that's the Bottom-line.... If you are a true trophy hunter you don't need to pound your chest by killing a 2 point. 2 points should be for youth and fist time hunters and let the crying begin,the TRUTH always hurts...
 
Bucktbull how many hounds do you have?

I do agree with you that hunters dont need to be taking out 2 points but to say that a lions dont prey heavly on mature bucks is rediculous, especially in the winter after the rut when the bucks are wore down and pull off into those secluded areas to recover.

Now Ive never set foot on the Pahvant unit so I cant say one way or the other as to the problems down there, but if lions are being seen like some of the others are claiming then they are a problem.


Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
Last year during the LE Rifle elk hunt we saw deer everywhere although not many were bucks. It looks like a they were doing pretty well to me
 
Jake, Why are you chiming in with your uneducated opinion if you have never hunted this unit? Maybe you read my post wrong, I never said lions, coyotes, bears don't kill deer, just they are not THE MAIN reasons for the decline in MATURE bucks and deer on the Pavant. Prime example is the Wasatch Front, their are more lions and coyotes on that mountain than any other unit in the state, Not to mention the winter range is horrible. However,that unit has mature bucks crawling all over that mountain. Why???? the only factor not effecting that unit, is Hunters. "Jake big Booner Hunting" Maybe you should stick to Facebook...
 
LOL never did say how many hounds you own.

"Maybe you should stick to Facebook..." LOL what does this even mean???? thats a hell of a comeback lol good one you really nailed me there.


Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
If you count my lab as a hound then I have 1...I could careless about lions, I would love it if they were gone, My point is I see plenty of deer on this unit and if the lions were the main problem don't you think the overall number of deer would be affected? Lions don't only kill for two weeks out of the year waiting for bucks to be exhausted from the rut, Im sure they might kill bucks during this time, but not every buck. I have never said lions don't kill deer or are not a problem in SOME areas,I have seen some units that the lions are to blame, just not this particular unit. I would say the biggest problem is wannabe trophy hunters who cant hold off on the urge to kill anything with horns and poachers during the rut other then lions. If this offends you then you probably shouldn't be on this website"Monstermuleys" Unless your a youth hunter or first time hunter don't pull the trigger on young bucks, Bottomline... Why are you so butt hurt about my comments Jake? Are you one of the wannabe trophy hunters that have all the stickers of big bucks on your truck, but have a dead two point in the back of your truck every year? Then as soon as you get home you complain on the internet about not being able to find big bucks, so you blame it on anything else then yourself... Can you explain my example of the Wasatch front??? Why are there plenty of Mature bucks on that unit? I personally seen 3 lions on that unit last year and we all know the winter range and highway kill are probably worst than any other unit in the state.
 
LOL you really are a douche, if anyone is getting butt hurt its you, I asked you a simple question (that you failed to anwser in your first response) and then agreed with you on your point about killing young deer. Your attitude was very similar to most houndsman I come in contact with so I figured you was one.

But I also stated my oppion that if there is as many lions being seen as the other posters said then there is a problem, I also stated that I do not know the true problems down there as I have not been there, that dont mean I cant give an opionion off of the previous information given.

I never questioned your point on people killing young deer I agreed with you, and just so you know I have never killed a yearling buck in my life.

I dont have time to go into your wasatch front stuff now, maybe later.

Honestly seems like we pretty much agree on the same things you just took offence to my post.


Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
Geez, Jake I must of struck a nerve...lol Maybe you are that typical wannabe trophy hunter that has the stickers all over your truck, but has never actually killed anything bigger then a 2 point? I'm just messing with you Jake,I'm sure we probably have a lot in common. I just called you out, because I felt you were trying to be like every other "wannabe Trophy hunter" on here that blames all the issues of their not being any big bucks, on anything other than the FACT that we are the biggest downfall to the decline of mature bucks in the state. No other excuse then us as hunters who will never agree on anything and come together as hunters to change for the better. That's my main purpose of posting on this post..This is my first time actually ever posting on this website, I like to just see the pictures and read the stories, but after seeing multiple post on here about people complaining about not seeing deer on the Pavant. I had enough and wanted to call those people out and they know who they are the same people I see year in and year out killing little bucks, then while they are talking to me with a dead 2 point on their four wheeler sit and complain about not seeing any big bucks.

Jake I HAVE spent countless hours on this unit and so when you chimed in with your opinion it made you look like one of these people I was calling out. So to see people get on here and blame it on anything other then themselves struck my nerve and notice non of the original post people have commented, ."The Truth Hurts" With much love and respect Jake...No need for name calling, hope you can see where I'm coming from???
 
Ok sounds like we can agree to agree. LOL sounds like we both just misinterpreted eachother.

And welcome to the site.


Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
OK... I have to chime in again. Anyone that thinks deer numbers are ok on the pahvant needs to have there head examined and didn't hunt on that mountain back when it was good. If it was even a shadow of what it was then, now, it would be noticeably better. I do agree hunters are a main reason for poor trophy numbers, but the cat herd down there is ridiculous. As far as the wasatch goes it also is overrun with cats and getting worse. There are a good number of nice bucks on the front because it's rough as hell, the winter range is actually very high quality for mule deer. That is a big misconception by a lot of guys. Even though there is a lot of encroachment by development, what winter range is around is prime and it takes a harsh winter to have much winter kill effect on the front. And last but not least the archery only factor is huge. A lot of bucks are going to make it through when you can't boom'em from 500+. Now that being said, the front is one of my favorites but it to has taken a slide over the years. There are many factors which you guys have already mentioned, but the pressure on that mountain during the rut is out of control and I think all of us would agree it also needs to be managed better. A few less guys with there 100+ slider bombing arrows at mature bucks definitely wouldn't hurt. Especially since probably 90% of them couldn't make that shot cold consistently... Ever. But you can bet most of them are going to let her fly. We could go on and on, I just hope we as hunters can just do our best to improve things. We have only a small effect on deer herds but every little bit helps. Good luck with rest of your seasons, it's been a good one so far.
 
What I would do to go back in time to 1985 and hunt the Pahvant.

I think predators are a big factor. (Cats, Dogs, Humans, etc)
I also think that competition plays a big part. (Elk)
 
Well the pavant definitely isn't where it use to be and I agree their are multiple factors, but NUMBER 1 factor is Hunting pressure. Not predators, not elk, not winter kill, not lions killing bucks after the rut, not highway kill, But HUNTERS. If we don't change the unit will never change. Because, lets be honest we cant depend on the DWR to help manage our deer population, They are clueless and care only about the mighty dollar. The wasatch is good because of two reason both contribute to Humans it tough to hunt and archery only. I also agree the wasatch is down from 10 years ago and the only factor there is way to many hunters.
 
Couldn't remember my damn login, been a while since I posted. Brian probably deleted it from inactivity Lol.

First of all, every unit in Utah is isn't what it used to be. All have less deer and Utah isn't the only State with this problem. Second, over the last 20 years, deer hunting has changed from a family activity to fill the freezer to must pound the mountain and smoke the biggest buck so I can post pics on MM and impress total strangers. So if mature bucks are the focus of a majority of hunters, naturally you will see fewer mature bucks than forkies. You still have hunters of all types and many still shoot small bucks, but the whole culture of mule deer hunters has changed over the past couple decades. Add in all the other reasons already stated (predators, freeway, poor management, etc.) and is it a surprise it's different than 1985? We can't draw comparisons to the distant past with deer and deer hunting anymore, things have change and it will never be like it was. We can compare it to last year or a few years ago, and as some stated, it is better this year than last.

I have been hunting Boulder since 1992, and mostly archery hunting it since 2000. I can say with confidence this was one if the better years I have had. Saw a ton of small bucks, above expected mature bucks, and a couple of bruisers, one being a 200"+ typical. But it varied little from the last 10 years as far as bucks seen; sure it wasn't the 1980's from stories the old timers tell, but seeing 50+ different bucks with 15 or so being nice 3's and bigger on one small section is good in my book for public land. I spend a lot of time in Wasatch West and it is the same story there as I am sure it is for most other areas in the State.

As for mature bucks on the front, there is only one major difference from other areas, archery only, and tagging a big buck in the front with a bow is not an easy task. If you opened it up to a couple thousand rifle tags, it would have the same mature buck issue as every other unit in the State. Nothing against gun hunters, I like to rifle hunt, I just hate the general season hunt in Utah. But it is much easier to harvest mature bucks with rifle than a bow.

So I guess my point is, the sky isn't falling on the Pavahnt, or any other unit. Give this 30 unit plan a few more years, pray for mild winters, and get out and kill some predators and hopefully things continue to improve for our deer herds. And if some of the hunters want to pound forkies to put meat in the freezer, more power to them, it spreads harvest across all age classes and leaves more mature bucks for breeding and me to hunt. Hell, with the price of beef the way it is, I may be putting a small buck in the dirt. Can't eat antlers and the younguns are tasty.
 
I live on the pahvant unit and also i have hunted there for my whole life. i believe the problem we are having is mainly due to having to many small bucks shot every year by first year hunters and whoever else wants to shoot 2 points, every year I see small bucks being shot and it seriously pisses me off. i know that most people are not like me and is hunting for meat rather than horns but ever since i was 14 and was able to hunt i have never taken a buck on the pahvant unit. i have had multiple chances of shooting two points and even three points every year but i choose not to because i know the importance of letting bucks mature before you take them. i think and suggest to put a restriction that no bucks smaller than a 3 point can be shot on the rifle hunt. to many small bucks are being taken each year and are not being able to mature like they should. of course predators also a small issue but not a big enough problem where it is out of hand. something seriously needs to be done.
 
Point restrictions on deer don't work in this state. It has been tried before and fails. More deer are killed on those units than the open ones. Let me give you and example of what happened in an area in southern Utah a while back. The unit was made three point or better. People were seeing lots of two points. Pretty soon people started finding lots of dead two points shot and left to rot. Frustration at not seeing bigger bucks and not being allowed to shoot the two points resulted in the bucks being wasted. It is assumed that the offending hunters continued hunting and possible shot another deer at some point in the season. Point is if they could have tagged the two point they would have been done and off the mountain. Instead they kept hunting. The deer herd suffered. When the point restrictions were lifted the deer numbers rebounded. Typical few ruining it for the rest.
 
I agree with what all of you are saying. hunter pressure is dropping the deer herd numbers. You cannot shoot every little two point every year and come out with many mature bucks. I thought the reason for these small units was to cut back on hunter pressure if deer herd or buck to doe ratio dropped below a certain point. I would say we are below that certain point in most areas of the state if not all.
 
Point restrictions do work. Take a look at Region K in Wyoming. 3 point or better this year and guess what??? The season is over and the mountain is still full of 2 points. These guy would be dead without the point restrictions. A couple 2's might get shot on accident, but that is better then 95% getting shot every year.
 
Agree 100% with doing a piont restriction. Times have changed, penalty's are way more severe than years past with the three piont or better restriction. Also hunters are much more aware of what other hunters are shooting on the mountain, excelllant optics, high power spotting scopes, ect. You better be sure what your shooting or somebody watching we likely turn you in. Just saying I'm a fan of the 3 piont restriction. Of course some smaller bucks are going to get shot, but that gives them more of a chance. I know there are more excuses for not doing the 3 point restriction, but what the hell, let's go for it. Just ask the big buck hunters in Oregon what they think. Best mature buck numbers in years.
 
I think with the 30 unit setup they should make a few units 3 point or better. That way when you apply you know what the restrictions will be for that unit. If you want a 2 point every year than steer clear of the 3 point or better units. Life is full of choices let our hunting be the same. I would even go for some archery only and Muzzy only and riffle only type areas.
 
>I think with the 30 unit
>setup they should make a
>few units 3 point or
>better. That way when
>you apply you know what
>the restrictions will be for
>that unit. If you
>want a 2 point every
>year than steer clear of
>the 3 point or better
>units. Life is full
>of choices let our hunting
>be the same. I
>would even go for some
>archery only and Muzzy only
>and riffle only type areas.
>
I like the ideas, give it a try for three years and see what works and what doesn't. I'm guessing the archery only unit would see a great increase of buck numbers, where the rifle only unit would be stagnant on buck numbers.
 
I have hunted the Pahvant unit from the late 50's. Places on that mountain now give me a nose bleed just looking at those steep draws. I think that is one mountain that could have open season on cougars and not even make a dent on their population. We use to see thirty five to forty buck in one herd. Go a few draws over and you could see the same thing.

I hunted with a bow in the past, but this bit about an archery unit only, is junk. Here again I will repeat myself from other subjects I have participated in, but after being on the mountain on opening day and talking to archers. It is amazing what is said in your conversations with them when you are not hunting yourself. I believe they are a big problem with wounding way to many deer. Everyone counts the harvest of the bow hunt, but never the harvest laying dead out on the hill. The coyotes have a real fiesta during and after the archery hunt.
 
Cannonball, thats a bunch of horse $hit, you cant say that about archers with out making the same argument about the other 2 seasons.

I dont like the idea of an archery only area either, that being said the coyotes have a real fiesta after every hunt not just the archery hunt.

I do think a 3 point or better rule is a great idea for a few of the units if not all of them.


Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
I agree with 3 point or better in some units if not all. Hunters that just want the experience of being in the outdoors and riding four wheelers can do that, but they will just have to be more willing to let the little bucks go. Sure some small ones will get shot and left, but at least not all of them. It is a great idea.
 
The units winter range has been severely restricted by the the wildlife fence along I-15. The deer used to migrate across the interstate prior to it becoming so busy. They need some wildlife tunnels under the interstate. Place on top of that the severe drought the area has suffered through for the last decade and the winter range is not what it once was. My family owns property on the unit and our water shares were taken away the first part of July because of the water shortage. The plants look okay but are not producing enough for the deer and elk. We have some property along the east frontage road and the snow can get deep there at times covering up the deer browse. The fish and game has been railing some new areas for more cliff rose and bitter brush but it will take time to grow and mature.

In the 70's there were far more deer on the unit than what I have seen the past decade. I have planted dry land alfalfa in a few spots and the last couple years the heat and drought killed it off. Used to be a lot more hunters down there killing little bucks than currently. The big bucks are still there, they have become better adapted to hiding out and not as plentiful just do to lower overall numbers.
 
I posted before the hunt that I have never taken a buck on the pahvant while hunting there for 7 years I have had plenty of chances to take two points every year and even small 3 points but I choose not to because I know what they could become. this year I shot my first buck and I am more than satisfied with the beautiful buck I shot. pictures are coming of mine and my brothers buck we shot on the pahvant this year! ALso I didn't see as many 2 points shot this year. but still more than I wanted to see of course. maybe its this damn heat haha!
 
86091020141831c.jpg


mine and my brothers buck this year. mine left his right. it puts mine to shame haha.
 
you genius's can argue till hell freezes over but until 1080 is made legal again and it's use mandated by many counties in most western states...and supplied to every farmer and rancher as it was from the 30's till the 60's....you'll never see deer herds like we had....it was a direct result of basically no predators...those large populations were man made....and man destroyed.


"As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron."
- H.L. Mencken, the Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
 
Nice bucks "muley". Those types of bucks used to be common on the Pahvant when I was younger. Zigger is correct about the predators. I spent several weeks on the unit from August through October scouting, and hunting deer and elk. I saw coyotes daily and three lions throughout. The DNR flew a helicopter hunting coyotes last year and killed I believe 66 dogs in a couple days. Still lots of dogs running around. I found a collard doe that was killed by coyotes and it appears from the transplant post that most of the collard deer are being killed by coyotes or lions.
 
Without Controlling the Biggest Predator = Man/TARDS/DWR Ain't nothing gonna Help!










[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
 
I really had to laugh at the person who said they had been hunting the Pahvant range for 15 years and hadn't seen a decline. My friend, a person who cannot talk of, 25 or more, years of hunting, does not have a clue of a hunting reference point of what hunting should be. Actually my first sentence, reflects and will reflect part of the management of our deer herds These youngsters working for the DWR will not have a correct reference points to make decisions. I will say this, the old timers did not do a good job either. It's going to take a few good people to buck the system and see through what really needs to be done. We need get off the kick of ideas such as the old poisons, three point and better, archery only hunts, and move on to new solutions.

The poisons and three point were good ideas, but will never fly again.
 
My family has hunted that unit for a very long time. I remember seeing herds of 20+ deer at a time. My dad would always talk of the trophy bucks haning in the camps when he was younger. He would talk of years when they wouldn't see anything up there during the deer hunt.
It seems like to me after the winter of 1992 it seems like that is when i remember really seeing a decline. After that it was getting to the point that we would be excited to count 10 deer in a day. I should add that we would usually hunt the winter range down low. We would also hunt high and see a few more and see some decent bucks at times. When they went to the 5 day hunt and liiting tags that when i feel like it started to improve a little. It of course has not bounced back to "the good ol days".
I have seen several cat kills over the years. I have encountered more coyotes up there while hunting deer than i have anywhere else while deer hunting. I have even sat down in my orange and called in coyotes during the rifle hunt and had success. Also there has always been plenty of hunters there doing their thing.
I have always wanted them to shut down the unit for a season or tow or cut the tags way back anyway and some how limit any kind of pressure that those animals see. (I don't think that will happen) There are so many factors in the equation.
My dads thinks that ever since they did the 3 point or better that is when he noticed the numbers when down hill. He claims it is because during that season he seen a lot 2 points left.
We have often wondered how much the elk played a factor only because it seems like as the elk numbers went up the deer numbers went down.
I am probably not much help with the conversation here but if i was to give some suggestions and if it was a perfect world i would cut the tags for a while, some how increase the amount and quality of the winter range, try to get the cat numbers down. I am sure there is other things but that, in my opinion, is a good start.
I will add this, in the last few years we have killed our biggest bucks to date in the unit. All of them being over 24" wide deep forked and decent mass on them and they have been down low. That is not for bragging or anything i just find that a bit interesting.
 
I have hunted this unit for 35 years was raised here we could see hundreds of deer in the dry farms east of meadow every morning on our way to hunt. don't know what to blame it on not many bucks but where the hell did all to does go if its not predators
 
All you guys saying that a 3 point or better rule would not work because it didnt work in the past because people would shoot and leave the 2 points are forgetting one very important fact.

Look at how much the Optics indusrty has evolved since the last time they have had a hunt like this.

Even the low end $100.00 binos and spotters on the market now are better then alot of what anyone had back then.

Hell you can spot a deer from 1000 yards out and tell if its a spike or 2 point.

The Three point or better hunt is a very viable option now, and with the fact that it is starting to take 2-4 years to draw a general tag people have a much harder time passsing on the smaller bucks for fear that they wont get one especiallly later in the hunt. But if they did this for 2 years look at the difference it could make.


Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
Your logic doesn't hold water. When the 3 point and better was in place we had 90 percent or more of those optics already being used. That being said, the 3 point was working and if one two point was shot they made an issue out of it. Take two days ago, we were heading fishing and saw a dead deer from the road. upon closer examination a doe had been shot. What does this mean? Nothing, other than excited hunters will make a mistake. That white hair going up a mule deer's ear sure looks like a spike in the heat of the moment.

The problem was that the DWR didn't want it and that was the end of the subject.

P00 - Government agencies can screw up anything!! Am I anti-government - - not in the least, but where are we now.
 
When was the last time Utah had a 3 point or better hunt? Cannonball, cause I dont know of any in the 16 years I have been hunting and I can tell you that there is a huge difference in the number of people useing optics (bino and spotters), as well as the quality of said glass in that time.

And its not the end of the subject if the DWR dont want it, it just means we have to work harder to get it back.


Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
Have to agree with Jake on this one, most guys I knew had a 4 power rifle scope and a pair of 8x binos. Very few used a spotting scope or glassed like they do now. That isn't debatable. That being said many things are different now. Optics, stiffer penalties, less hunters hunting... Just to name a few. I would like to see them try it in some units.
 
Gee Whiz,

I guess my friends and myself must have been the exceptions. We all had 3 X 9 scopes on our guns and mine was a Leopold. I also had a spotting scope and this was way before 3 point and better in Utah. My binoculars were 10 power.
 
Here are three paragraphs from the DWR on about 1990. Study by whom? I really don't believe their study.


"The new proposal actually grew from a recently completed study on three-point-or-better hunting units. There were 11 such units last year and according to Grant Jense, assistant chief of game management for the DWR, "They have been a disaster."

Findings showed that these types of hunts decrease success, decrease quality and decrease buck numbers . . . "which is exactly what the hunt was intended not to do.

"Under this type of hunt we send hunters out after the very deer we want to protect (mature bucks). Hunters go after the older bucks, but in doing so 40 percent of the yearlings are illegally killed each year. The result is that there is very little carryover from year to year," Jense says."
 
That 3-9 sure was a sweet scope back then, nothing compared to the 20x we are sporting now. Dang it would be cool if they would try the 3point or better again in a few units I'm just not buying the negatives people are selling. Sounds like the fish and game are against it in Oregon too, but the units that have point restrictions are kicking butt. I don't know probably never happen again, but it's got my vote.
 
I found this article about point restrictions and figured I would post it here.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/pdf/mdwg/mdwg-6_point_restrictions.pdf

I do see some of the points made in the artical, but I dont see how the every year slaughter of the yearling bucks is a good thing either. In my head the more bucks you have make it past that first year or two the more bucks that will grow older. But maybe im wrong.



Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
The only reason why people don't want to give a 3 point or better a chance is because they won't be able to fill there "freezer'. People might shoot a 2 point here and there on accident, but at least most the bucks will get the chance to experience the rut at least once in there life.
 
From the article posted above, I could see why the DWR might not like point restrictions, with less hunter participation,less youth hunters, ect... If antler point restrictions dont work then why are the Henries doing well? or are there a lot of "meat hunters" drawing for these units.... No its because of the light pressure, predator control, High fawn survival..... I remember point restrictions here in Utah, It seemed they were fairly short lived. I also remember when the Bumble bee was opened back up as a general area, Tons of hunters the first year killed large bucks, a few the next year, 2 points after that.. I dont know the answer, revolving hunts maybe... but no quick fix im afraid.
 
In the past I have been for antler restriction. In fact I was one of many who started the ball rolling. Everybody said that hunters wouldn't support it, but I put petitions around Richfield to change to three-point+ and within one week at the old Pearson Gas station on the north end of town I had over 1500 signatures.

Now I have PARTIALLY changed my position. First off, don't believe everything you read in Game Management Plans. Hate to say it, but they all eat out of the same trough. Knew a game biologist from the Forest Service, who backed three point and claimed to have been told by his supervisor to back off because the DWR did not like it. He felt like something needed to be done and they were doing nothing.

To me it comes to this - predator control, predator control, predator control. Easy solution, but you can't hire a "hounder" to tell you how many cougars to kill and that's what they have done. The coyote money wouldn't go far enough to handle it. We used to shoot them at night spotlighting them, but now the sheriff would be standing on your door step.

Predator control or cut way back on the number of hunters. You choose.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom