Colorado early rifle high: less desirable dates?

txhunter58

Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-14 AT 06:25PM (MST)[p]I see where they have made a change in how they figure the dates of the early high country rifle deer hunts in Colorado. They decided to always start them the Saturday AFTER labor day. That moves the season back a week in most years from where it has normally been (first sat in Sept). In fact, that means that for the next 4 years, the early rifle season will be for the same dates as muzzleloading season.

IMO, that makes this tag much less desirable. You can generally draw the muzzleloading tag for a fraction of the early rifle tag points. Yes, you can shoot much much farther with a scoped rifle, but one of the benefits of the early rifle is that there were no other rifle hunters in the woods (no muzzy guys) and the week earlier usually meant you could still find the big boys above timberline in batchelor groups. Some years you still can later, but it is more iffy, especially if some cold weather hits.

Although I had a great hunt in the past with an early rifle hunt, I think I will probably just put in for the muzzy tag in the future. Not worth the extra points any more. Although 2019 might be an exception.

One possible benefit would be that friends can hunt together. For example, my brother has 11 deer points and I have 2. If he draws a rifle tag and I draw a muzzy tag, we can now hunt together.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Definitely not as desirable. When it comes to muleys, that early September is a good time. . . Times ticking on their patterns every day that goes by after mid September.
 
I also like the fact that you can get a buck in velvet in the earlier dates. I love mine.

3320davids_sangre_buck4.jpg


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Great looking buck. Can't wait till the regs are in print, but based on your observation that definitely doesn't make those tags as desirable.
 
After talking with a few at the CPW I knew this was coming, it is a very good idea, and was needed.

The reason is that it gives the archers another week before they are over run with rifle hunters..

The early season(s) were started for archery/muzzy hunters and had rifle hunts added in over time - this change has had a effect on archery hunting many units.

With all the technology and 500, 600, or 900+ yd shots the norm these days the move was needed and the CPW has heard my voice many times in cutting the number of tags offered in these seasons or at least to move the days back. I am not the only one with this opinion as they are hearing it from many archery folks and hopefully soon a more organized push from the CBA. It was a very good change to see them move em back a week.

If you want to hunt earlier it is time to learn to use a bow. Even with the seasons a week later if you cant get a buck with a rifle up high it is not the season dates that are the problem.

It would be great to see them cut most of these hunts totally but that is not what the CPW is going to do so it was great to see them move the seasons back a week.
 
You make some valid points and their must be others who felt the same whom they listened to. I think they also thought it would be better to have the rifle hunts AFTER labor day weekend with all the hikers. For better or worse, it is what it is, but it isn't worth as many points as it was with the earlier dates. When I can draw the tag with 0-2 points for a muzzleloader, I can hunt the same country during the same time 5 times compared to 1 rifle hunt.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-14 AT 08:36AM (MST)[p]That's a real bummer for those that like to hunt early high country with rifle. From what I've seen....the earlier in the season the better for alpine bucks. Once bucks shed their velvet they often disappear into the trees and go into seclusion until showing up later in the winter range. I'm sure a lot of high alpine bucks are breathing a little easier with the new dates. I'm also sure a few archery hunters ought to be happy but there aren't enough early rifle tags issued to cause many (if any) conflicts. It's kindof wild that the rifle dates will now conflict with muzzy? I wonder if the CBA pushed for these new dates? The CBA has tended to do some pretty whacky things the last few years...some of which have nothing to do with bow hunting (the push for point banking is an example). This is probably one more example to keep an eye on what's up with the CBA!
 
I agree. For 2013 they had such hunts in only 22 units with a total of 191 hunters statewide. Not enough to make much of a difference. But if they have one in your favorite hunting area.... After all, bow hunters only get 4 weeks. They have always gotten at least a week jump on early rifle, now it will usually be two weeks.

I must admit, the ultimate prize for a hunter would be to take a big timberline buck with a bow. But that is not everyone's cup of tea.

Again, it is what it is, and I think points may drop because I will never put in for one again with those dates. When I can shoot out to 150 yards with a muzzy and hunt 5-7 times in the same time it takes to draw one rifle tag, why would I.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Sounds like you got if figured out and glad to hear the muzzy hunts will work for ya.

Have to disagree but the rifle hunters have had a big effect on archery hunting in many areas. Most archery hunters as well as the folks I talk with at the CPW agree.

I will agree that most of these high country rifle hunts are for guys who want a velvet buck in the easiest way possible way and that is a rifle and 600+ yd shots.

Again nice to see the archers get another week as that is the intent of early seasons and this change will do the most good for the most hunters as the early season is managed for archery not rifle.

They will still be great hunts so I would not get fully depressed about it - as if you cant kill a buck a week later with a 600+ yd high power rifle well then it is not the extra week's fault.. If enough guys drop out just think point creep might just go in the other direction in these units LOL!! Or these will still be great hunts that plenty of folks will put in for.

The newest early rifle hunt is this year in unit 65. Who knows this unit is is a good one for 180" bucks?
 
Just want to mention a couple of things. I hunted early high country rifle hunts twice many years ago. I was successful both times. My shots were 20 and 90 yards. Muzzleloader range for sure but in the units I hunted there are no deer at timberline by mid-September. Muzzleloader season really is too late.

There was some discussion in another thread about long range rifle shooting potentially costing opportunity for all. Well it sure looks like it already has.
 
My one high country rifle deer hunt was also successful and the shot was was 140 yards. I would never personally shoot past 400 yards with a scoped rifle, but hey that is a litttttle bit farther than I can shot with a bow (40 yards). I think guys start thinking everyone is shooting 600 yards, but in reality, that is probably 1% of the hunters. Just very few hunters have enough natural ability compounded with LOTS of practice and wind charts, etc, to get it done.

Kayak, I am already where you would be if the rifle season dropped points but with a muzzy. I can draw the area where I killed my 29" 8x7 185" buck every other year with a muzzy and I am comfortable to 100 and with perfect conditions, 150 yards. IF I were really a DEER hunter, I would be doing that almost every year. But I am really an ELK hunter, and muzzy season works just fine for that and I can get an elk in easier places than where the big timberline bucks hang out. But every once in awhile, I get the itch!

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I respect Kayaks opinion but disagree with it. Tex, we've talked about the rifle hunts, and I see no incentive in burning my points for something I can bowhunt every year. Even though I'm a bowhunter at heart, I want a monstermuley! That means me, along with hordes of hunters, will be building for a 4th season hunt, greatly affecting point creep, IMO. You can never please the CBA, or it's legions of weekend warriors. The CBA has been bitching about muzzy hunters in "their" season forever. The few rifle tags given in a few units (yes Kayak, I understand your units are included) have almost zero effect on the few bowhunters that actually make it up into the high mountain bowls.
Oh well, I've got a 36" 7x7 in my current unit that is consuming my thoughts...no time for a high country hunt now! Ha!
 
I strongly disagree with Kayak as well. Lets look at some factual numbers taken out of the CPW harvest reports and use units 35/36 as an example. There are usually around 15 early high country rifle tags issued in units 35/36. Hunter numbers for deer in that unit include: 243 archery, 179 muzzy, and 85 muzzy doe. Elk hunter numbers in 35/36 include: 817 archery cow plus bull, 165 muzzy, and 225 cow muzzy. If you add up all of those hunters there potentially are 1,731 total big game hunters/year during the archery, muzzy, and early rifle seasons in 35/36. Of the 1,731 hunters there are only 15 early rifle hunters (or less than 1% of the total).

I wouldn't exactly say 15 early high country hunters contribute much hunting pressure compared to the 817 elk and other hunters in units 35/36? This same thing is true in every Colo big game unit with OTC elk tags? I would guess there are probably more grouse hunters in 35/36 than early high country hunters? If the CPW is seriously concerned and wants to decrease hunting pressure they should seriously consider limiting more elk units!
 
I thought the early high country hunts were good. These offered a unique and limited experience to colorado deer hunts. To tell me a few early rifle hunters are ruining it for archery hunters is completely ridiculous.
 
+1 Jims.

I can tell you one thing, the points required may stabilize or even drop for a few years, then they will take a big jump up in 2019 (the next year the season comes a week before the muzzy season).

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
Jims since you brought up the Nest - if you are going to use the stats you have to add in both resident and nr hunters :)..

In 2014 they gave 20 rifle tags, in 2013 they gave 27, and the stats in the nest do have a telling tale. The hunt was hard this past year with hunters pounding out a measly 100% success rate this past year... 100%! With the late dates they might only reach 95% LOL!

As far as what I see from elk hunters - after the first archer with a hoochie mama shows up chases all the elk from above timberline - in what seems to take about 30 sec into first light. There will very few to no elk above timberline - hence no hunters. So sayin that a elk hunter is more likely to bump a buck I bedded at 12,800' than to run into a rifle hunting the same bucks well.... Again just not what I see.

I understand that you boys like the rifle hunt and from what I see a week later will still make for a great hunt. In fact I might be joining along or doing one of these rifle hunts in the next 4 years as thx to great friends I have points saved and even with the dates a week later I know I will only have my self to blame if I dont come home with a HOG if ya give me a rifle. So I too am looking forward to hunting with a rifle.

Just dont see the dates a something to get to bent over. If a hunter is willing to hunt the bucks will be there. Again I also believe it is fair for bow hunters to have 2 weeks before rifle/muzzy.

Tx glad you only shoot that far but it is fair to say you are not the "norm" these days.. 600yds is a conservative estimate as even a hack like me can shoot to 800. Hell I would not want to get my wife pissed enough (who started shooting 3 years ago) to get a steady rest for a shot at me inside of 550yds as it would be the end of me. I took a brother n law and his 2 sons to the range 3 days ago. They have 0 experience behind a new rifle and they all were bangin metal at 800 in a hour. It is what it is..

As far as the points going down that was and is a joke... Tx I got a 30 rack of pbr - payin bet - that point creep will continue in the high country rifle hunts in 2015. They will still be great hunts with ridiculously high success rates that lots of guys want to do.. If you want to bet let me know and we can check the stats at the end of the year.
 
Kayak, I'm trying to make sense of your last response but can't seem to? According to the CPW hunt summary recap they issued 15 total tags in the early high country 35 hunt in 2014? Even if they issued 20 tags it still would be less than 1% of the total elk and deer hunters in the unit....not enough hunting pressure to do squat!

Anyone that hunts timberline bucks on a regular basis knows that just like elk spooking into the trees (as you pointed out)....mid to late Sept bucks head for the security of the trees once they shed their velvet or are spooked by all the OTC elk hunters.

I wouldn't say HCR hunters have great harvest success in Colo. You made it sound like all units are 100% success? You are right that 2 out of 22 units (10% of total units) had 100% harvest success in 2013. You didn't mention that 8 of the 22 HCR units had 0% success (33% of units) and 63% of the total units had less than 50% harvest success. In fact, some archery hunter success was actually higher than the HCR hunters! In 2013, 28 of 191 total HCR hunters had 0% harvest success (11% of total HCR hunters). That kind of tells me that the HCR hunts are everything but a slam dunk with their 600 yard "pee shooters!"

I've never been on an early high country deer hunt but have hunted timberline bucks and bulls w/bow many times. I've also never seen an early high country rifle hunter in all the days I've hunted! I wonder how many archery hunters have ever ran into HCR hunters...and on a regular basis? Even though my preference over the years has been to hunt more often with bow and muzzy I can't understand the theory that HCR hunters are creating a lot of hunting pressure....absolutely not true! I have never felt like I was at a disadvantage while bow or muzzy hunting because there were so many HCR hunters. I have been over-whelmed by the number of OTC elk hunters that have spooked bucks and spoiled stalks while bowhunting!

If you really want to improve muley bowhunting in Colo I would suggest figuring out a strategy to limit more elk hunting units in Colo! It would be a lot more of a quality experience for everyone! HCR hunting pressure is squat...you will never win that battle!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-14 AT 10:49AM (MST)[p]

"Tx glad you only shoot that far but it is fair to say you are not the "norm" these days.. 600yds is a conservative estimate as even a hack like me can shoot to 800. "

Sorry, but I have to dissagree on that one. I still say it is closer to 1% of the rifle guys out there that can confidently shoot 600 yards in the field. Internet makes it sound like it is more, but I seriously doubt it. I know of a lot of rifle hunters (from Texas and Colorado) and only one of them would be up for it.

As far as taking the bet on points dropping, I won't take that because top point guys are so invested in that hunt, they may hold out for it. But I would bet you that there will be a substantial number of them that won't even hear about the season date changes when they apply. That said, if there isn't a substantial jump in points from 2018 to 2019 I would be real surprised.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
In defense of the bowhunters, muzzy, and 3 rifle hunters side. There will likely be more monster muley bucks that make it through the HCR seasons with the later season dates. There are generally low concentrations of deer in most the the HCR units. With later dates there will be more chance for snow, OTC elk hunting pressure, bucks going into seclusion after shedding velvet, more grouse hunters, etc. which equates to mature bucks having a greater chance to survive the Colo on-slaught of hunters. I predict hunter success during the HCR will drop...even to lower numbers than they already are....this may mean more big bucks for archery, muzzy, and late season rifle hunters...not a totally bad thing?

It's somewhat hard to predict if these tags will be easier or tougher to draw? As TXhunter pointed out a large chunk of applicants that apply for HCR tags don't even notice season changes before they apply. Other applicants are set on hunting a particular unit that they may know well or know where some big bucks hide. If I was researching HCR seasons/units for the first time I would take a look at the season dates...and notice that it really isn't the prime time to hunt alpine bucks. The Rockies are an incredible place to spend time in the early fall so it would likely still be a "quality experience."

In regard to 600 yard "pee shooters". I personally know hundreds of rifle hunters and only know a couple that are willing to take shots over 400-450 yards.
 
Tx do u remember the date u killed that buck? Just curious, seems like labor day or shortly after, they head to the timber. Nice buck by the way, congrats!
 
As someone who has been building points for an early high hunt for years, I'm disappointed with the change in dates. Not sure what I'll do know, might hold off a year or two until the dates open a little earlier like 2017 or might go for another option like a third season hunt. Here in WA we can hunt above timberline muleys every year without drawing a tag, the season opens on Sept. 15th which by then the velvet is off and the bucks are much more challenging.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-15 AT 08:19AM (MST)[p]Well we can go rounds all day long but one thing is undeniable - the CPW feels that rifle hunters do have a impact on archers, the ever improving technology in the archery season is viewed as issue by the CPW as well as many archers, and the dates were moved.... I agree with and applaud the CPW for a change that will do the most good for the most hunters.

Jims if ya want send a letter to limit every elk unit in Co I applaud you. Hell start a petition I will sign it! I wish more hunters would do the same or I am with ya on that good luck.

What I see with technology - is that over the past 30 years technology has helped us hunters a lot. Myself along with many others (including the biologists/game wardens in this area) do feel that the inevitable changes in technology (past and future on many levels) has a impact that is only going to continue to grow while favoring the hunter. Maybe this technology trend will change or has no impact - but I have to respectfully disagree with both jims and tx who seem to believe that technology is not influencing the hunt these days.

So boys we agree to disagree but it is a moot point as the change is already made by the CPW and they are well aware of the issues I see but I guess others do not.... I also will have to strongly disagree that the change will ruin these hunts. These hunts will still be some of the very best in the state. More than plenty of guys will line up to hunt "the easiest way to a high country muley". In fact I will pry be one of these guys and will be looking forward to the opportunity whenever the season opens. As I know if I cant get a buck a week later with a rifle I only have myself (and not the season dates) to blame.

As far as the bet I was looking forward to some free iced malted pops :) - as it is a joke to even assume that points will go down.
 
Kayak, I would be the first to admit that technology has changed the face of hunting in recent years. Not only for rifle but also bowhunters. With new and improved bow sights, releases, over-draw, arrows, broadheads, releases..the list goes on! How much further do compounds shoot today than recurves? That is likely why there are more and more regs limiting the use of new and improved equipment..drones, scopes, etc. As an example, I shot a nice UT bull a few years ago at relatively long range with sabots and a 1 x power scope in Utah. It would be illegal to use the same here in Colo...so I would be limited to shooting shorter range. I applaud Colo for keeping tabs on technology so hunters are more inclined to hunt game...the old fashion way!

I wouldn't exactly say that later HCR season dates will ruin these hunts....it will just make them tougher. They will still be quality hunts...other than the fact that there are still conflicts between bowhunters, muzzy, and HCR hunters. I imagine more elk bowhunters hunt later in Sept when elk are rutting so there potentially could be even more conflicts between HCR and elk bowhunters? Early season bowhunters may be happy but what about elk bowhunters that hunt the rut? In all reality it's the army of OTC elk hunters that cause the most hunting pressure so no matter what the season dates the few HCR hunters that are in the field probably doesn't matter!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-15 AT 08:10PM (MST)[p]Here's my opening day high country rifle buck from 2014. After a four hour stalk and measuring the relative humidity, rotation of the earth, and heat waves I shot him at an astronomical ninety eight (98) yards. After muzzleloader, archery, and now, rifle hunting bucks above timberline I agree that the one week makes a huge difference in the vulnerability of these big bucks up at timberline in Colorado where the deer can summer at 12-13k. I believe that by mid September some of the bucks that summer high on the divide will be in different units altogether. As an archery mule deer hunter myself if I were bothered by the high country rifle hunters I would simply hunt the many units that don't have an early hunt.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-15
>AT 08:10?PM (MST)

>
>Here's my opening day high country
>rifle buck from 2014.
>After a four hour stalk
>and measuring the relative humidity,
>rotation of the earth, and
>heat waves I shot him
>at an astronomical ninety eight
>(98) yards. After muzzleloader,
>archery, and now, rifle hunting
>bucks above timberline I agree
>that the one week makes
>a huge difference in the
>vulnerability of these big bucks
>up at timberline in Colorado
>where the deer can summer
>at 12-13k. I believe that
>by mid September some of
>the bucks that summer high
>on the divide will be
>in different units altogether.
>As an archery mule deer
>hunter myself if I were
>bothered by the high country
>rifle hunters I would simply
>hunt the many units that
>don't have an early hunt.
>

For some reason I lost my picture:

IMG_0105_zpsf1da2e5e.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-15 AT 01:57PM (MST)[p]I have hunted both early and late dates for muzzy deer. I have also killed big bucks both early and late on September high country muzzy hunts. I haven't found there to be much of a difference. I killed a BIG buck this year on Sept 15th above timberline and still in full velvet. In fact, I watched a HCB hunter miss this buck with a scoped rifle; I killed that same buck 8 hours later with a musket in a different basin. As for the long range debate, almost any hunter with an ounce of common sense and one eye can shoot long range, provided they have the right equipment and some coaching. I wish it weren't true, but I have witnessed it first hand. I had my 14 year old daughter busting pie plate size balloons at 500-600 yards inside a 1/2 hour.
 
Cabin and Kayak. Just curious: how many deer have you personally shot at 600 yards. As far a your 14 year old daughter, I am sure you are right. From a bench at a range, you can pretty much have anyone busting balloons at those ranges in short order. That is a far cry from shooting at a live buck at 600 yards at a 30 degree down angle with a 20 mph cross wind at 12,000 feet after hiking 1/2 a day. If your daughter is making that shot, I am putting my money on the buck. I have hunted with all weapons for over 30 years and I don't have the time to practice as much as it would take for me to feel confident that I can hit the gong at those distances in the field 95% of the time. But that is just me.

And we can agree that the tag still holds some allure. Just can't see why anyone would wait that long when the same hunt can be had for so much less points. As far as long range shooting, look up Marleys shooting a muzzy at 400 yards, open sights! He killed a bull at nearly 300 with his muzzy in Colorado recently

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
TX some that shoot regularly at distance dont post it on here as then it is inevitable soon after to see a tent with 3 rings set up....

Since you ask my closest to 600 anyway would be a 618 yd one shot kill with a .308 - 168 berger. Bullet was a complete pass through breaking the back leg and rolling downhill on impact. 0 -5 wind and 5 deg down angle, 9200 ft, 2.22c, bla bla bla... The deer I take much more pride in was at taken 11 yds with a longbow.

Also I own a white super 91 with a peep so I am well aware of their capabilities. I talked with marley a little bit before his hunt and it was cool he found success as from what I saw he put in the work needed to hunt hard, find, and ethically kill that or well the 2 bulls.
 
"The deer I take much more pride in was at taken 11 yds with a longbow"

"from what I saw he put in the work needed to hunt hard, find, and ethically kill that or well the 2 bulls."

That says it all! I agree with both ideas/ideals

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
This stinks for someone with 12 points who was going to put in for a HCB hunt this year, I have literally been dreaming about this hunt for 12 years and building points and not hunting. This totally devalues the tag because now you will have muzzle shooters and rifle hunters (and some archers) all hunting the same week. It just plain doesn't make any sense for someone to spend 12 points for a rifle tag when you can draw the same tag for muzzle with 2 or 3 points. Does it? I have no idea what to do now. Oooh well. So nice of someone to change the game right before I apply.

Why not just open archery season a week earlier for deer? Did you try that? Everyone would be happy then I bet.
 
And now I have to deal with all of the Muzzleloader Elk hunters! I am not a happy camper. I have no problem hunting hard, high and competing with everyone and their brother, but I can go to G or H in Wyoming for that every couple of years.

Any chance I would be granted the ability to now split my points up for multiple hunts because the dates were changed, that seems fair.
 
How would one be on top of this if it hadn't changed in 12 years, how was I supposed to know? I do realize things change, I just wish they didn't in this instance. I should have just burnt my points earlier I guess (I did hunt 3 2nd choice deer tags in CO during the past 12 years)...best thing I did was burn my elk points early. Maybe they should have come out with the 2015 dates more than 3 months before applications are due (like before 2014 apps were due), so one could plan.
 
Ten years ago the dates for the muzzy and early rifle were the same, that lasted for five years, you lost your window in the last five. IMO
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-15 AT 05:54AM (MST)[p]>Ten years ago the dates for
>the muzzy and early rifle
>were the same, that lasted
>for five years, you lost
>your window in the last
>five. IMO

Don't think that is correct. There were always a few units that were later, even in this past 5 years, but I think this is the first time that all of them have been later. Don't ever remember all of the hunts being later. When I did my early rifle hunt in 2003, it started the first Saturday in September (Sept. 6th).


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
That's how I remember it as well, some units opened in August! I have been chasing the Sangre de Cristo tag for early September since they opened it...I am finally close, just have to decide what to do.
 
My brother and I drew it with 8 points in 2003! The memories will be etched into my memory forever! Hope you are as lucky.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
It looks like they only changed some of them. The Rawahs, flat tops, zirkels, collegiates, and sangres all show 9/5 as the start sates in the 2015 regulations as approved in January.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-15 AT 06:05AM (MST)[p]

I see that:

http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2015/Jan/ChW-2-BigGame-AsApproved.pdf

Page 79 and 80

Units that DID make the CHANGE to later dates:

36 (eagles nest), 43 (maroon bells), 45,44, 444 (holy cross),47 (hunter frying pan), unit 74, and 471.

So unfortunately nripepi , the Sanges may actually experience MORE point creep upward this year since they are one of the few that kept the earlier date!

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-15 AT 06:59AM (MST)[p]Yep knew this would come to the surface sooner or later...

The dates have been different by unit every 5 year structure = some early some not. Every 5 years some change some do not.. Look at the individual units to see the history there. Funny how many folks zero in on the 40's units when there are much better units for early season with earlier dates - like the sangre's tag mentioned.. I think 65 early has the chance to be a great tag even with sept 12 start date.. As said above I might be hunting a early tag that I knew for a fact would be a great hunt I just did not say it would start on Sept 5th this yr....

Tx since you are the op do you know what units will not be moved back and will start Sept 5th this year? edited = I just added them or sept 5 start date for 6, 12,24,25,14,16,17,48 block,82,86,and 861....

The cat is out of the bag so yea there is no way I would put in for a week later. If it were my points I would flat avoid units that start later and look for a unit that starts earlier.

While I would like to see them all move back unfortunately they did not - so tx you see now why I saw my 30 rack bet as a "house bet" that point would jump in most units...

Good luck to all that draw.
 
"The cat is out of the bag so yea there is no way I would put in for a week later. If it were my points I would flat avoid units that start later and look for a unit that starts earlier."

LOL, Yeah right....

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-15 AT 07:01PM (MST)[p]Not all HC hunts are created equal. Hunting a few of those hunts that are still early would likely turn out a disappointment for those looking to find the quality available in other units.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-15 AT 10:55AM (MST)[p]Great buck with a very unique rack, should make a beautiful mount.

I see you must have been able to sneak up on him. Still has a bite of food in his mouth. :)

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I don't think a few tags makes a difference in the herd, but do think that the early sea on rifle hunt that second week does affect the archery hunt.

It's a 4 week hunt, but I would guess 80% of the archery guys go the first week to avoid the rifle hunt the second, the muzzle the third and the velvet off coming down in the 4th week. At least that's the case for the guys traveling to come to a unit.

The rifle hunters get the early rifle, then up to 4 other rifle seasons including that 4th season zoo shoot. Nothing against those guys, but I don't see the issue in giving the archery guys a full 2 weeks to tire out their legs and get red eye from staring through the glass.

I have been on 3 high country archery hunts and I'm 0/3, mostly due to user error. Would be 3/3 on real nice bucks if I had a muzzle loader and wouldn't even need to bring much food along if I had a rifle.

I'm trying to be a little funny with the commentary and want everyone to have a decent opportunity, but the point is if you look at the number of bucks killed and the quality of those bucks I think you can be a little more liberal in giving the archery guys a couple weeks to the themselves and let the big sticks come week 3. Hell even with that some of those guys are up there scouting during the archery hunt.

I just talked to Hilary about this and she suggested a compromise and open it up that Wed or Thurs a week and a half into it. That would give the archery guys enough time to run out of food and let the rifles come in on a less busy recreation day and most would probably be out of there by the time weekend comes and the locals want to hike up high to smoke their highly taxed weed.

Bam who wants to join my campaign?
 
If I remember my first high country buck hunt it was in the mid 1960's and was on the Sangre De Cristo mountains above Westcliffe - think you could have thrown a blanket over all the bow hunters then and interesting how it is now considered an archery hunt. Maybe my memory is not as good as it once was but I don't remember archery being an issue when the season was established. Some of you older guys may have better memory than me.
 
txhunter

I don't frequent MM much, so this reply is late coming.

After a lot of practice at the range, my daughter took her first deer at 450 yards with my LR rig.

I have personally taken deer from as close as 14 yards and as far as 800 yards. I just love to hunt, and frankly don't get caught up in how far other people think I should or shouldn't shoot. I hunt with a bow, musket, and rifle. I love all my weapons, and I'm very proficient with all of them. I've never understood why hunters need to be so concerned with how far other hunters shoot. Frankly, I think far less animals are wounded by LR hunters, than fairly average hunters who can't hit a milk jug at 200 yards much less 100 yards. Maybe I'm the odd man out. I just don't put a lot of thought or concern into how far someone shoots their game.
 
Cabinfever
You couldn't word it better. 100% dead on.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
The cat is out of the bag so yea there is no way I would put in for a week later. If it were my points I would flat avoid units that start later and look for a unit that starts earlier. "Kayak"

It is funny that the guy who argued that if you cannot get your buck in the later dates you're the issue, now says that if it was him he would look for a unit that starts earlier. So is your position based on selfishness or hypocrisy ?
 
Cabinfever

Again, the whole LR debacle is about it being unfair to the animal that has no-idea that you are there when your shot is greater than 500 yards.

I had a buck under me work his way to may from 600 to 500 to 400 and so forth. I was going to shoot him when he hit 250 and then had another dude that was at least 700 yards away shoot him before he got to me. this guy was on a hill in a completely different drainage.

I think the whole LR thing makes it far to easy to shoot these big bucks and they are very accurate.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-27-15 AT 12:32PM (MST)[p]BeDawg

My buck at 14 yards was as unaware of my presence as the one at 800 yards. The problem with long range ethics, is who sets the ethical standard. You say 500 yards. Others might feel like anything beyond 350 yards is unethical, while others feel like 1000 yards is ethical. The last thing we need, as hunters, is more regulation by government. What we need is more hunters to be more accurate, and to know what their capabilities are. Frankly, maybe it's not such a bad thing that we have hunters who can't hit the broadside of a barn. It allows for more animals to reach maturity. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but the LR argument is useless. The long range guys are going to continue to shoot long range and the ethics police will continue to bark at them.Nothing will change! Yes, legislation could be passed stipulating a specific range, but how on earth would this ever be enforced, much less regulated.

I hope fewer people put in for the early HCB hunt. It will make the odds better.
 
I still bet 9 out of 10 HCB hunters don't have any business shooting deer at 800 yards. Neither my brother or I could when we hunted. Still can't

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
>I still bet 9 out of
>10 HCB hunters don't have
>any business shooting deer at
>800 yards. Neither my
>brother or I could when
>we hunted. Still can't
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)

You'd be surprised Tex, they might not be in your neck of the woods but the boys around here are getting pretty damn good. With the new technology, the custom rifle and handling craze. 700 yards is becoming a household shot whether some like it or not.
With that being said I'm all for moving the HCB back. I've always felt muzzy hunters got screwed by it. I've always wondered why the CPW placed it in between two primitive weapon hunts.

Coloradoboy
 
Muzzy hunters get screwed either way. Either the HCB hunters get a week jump on them or they are in the woods at the same time. So as they creep up on a giant muley to get within 150 yards or so, BOOM, a shot from 700 yards takes the buck down! Course then they can get to the buck first and claim they shot it and have it tagged by the time the HCB hunter gets there!

The only real winners here are the bow people and maybe the bucks that don't get wacked

Will be curious to see what happened to the creep this year!

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I hunted in the CO high country this past year with a muzzleloader. Found a big buck the day before the hunt. The buck got boogered out of the basin opening day. A HCB hunter shot at the buck in the basin to the south of where I located him. He missed. The buck returned to the original basin I found him in, and so did I. I put the buck to bed, put a sneak on him and killed him with my musket as he got up to leave. I also might add, the buck was killed in mid September. Those bucks don't leave the HC in mid September unless there is a couple feet of snow. Hunting the HC with a rifle is a pretty sweet deal whether you get to hunt the 1st of September or mid September.My two biggest bucks from CO were killed with a musket above timberline in mid September in units that have a high country buck hunt prior to the muzzy hunt.......No love lost for the HCB hunters.
 

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