Mr. Mule Deer convicted in CO

C

ColoradoOak

Very Active Member
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7437brownlee.jpg
 
Great topic.

Mr. Brownlee is no stranger to getting busted for wildlife violations. He was convicted of claiming WY residency for obtaining an OTC tag in order to hunt 'Popeye' in Region G or H years ago. Also, received a similar elk violation in WY that same year.

Mr. Brownlee is also no stranger to having his face on the cover of a western trophy hunting mag.

Goooooo figure.........
 
Glad to see they ended up with a conviction but these people knew dam well they were breaking the laws so seeing a $100 and 10 points seems like chump change to me... Still glad to see a conviction of some sort.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
 
Glad they were convicted but a $100 fine plus 10 pts doesn't sound like much more than a traffic violation?
 
Brownlee gets a 100.00 F'N Fine Huh?

Bet that teaches Him!





We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
 
Gunnison basin obviously has no trophy deer left. Makes me laugh when I hear that over and over Again from certain members on this forum...
 
Looks like all ya gotta do is beat the basin with a chopper till ya find one of the few and go shoot it. Now where did I put that number to acme chopper?.......
 
>Gunnison basin obviously has no trophy
>deer left. Makes me
>laugh when I hear that
>over and over Again from
>certain members on this forum...

Let me see if I understand your point correctly here, Mr. Gunnison Fan.

A guy buys an expensive Gov's tag.........has to hire a guide........has to fly to find a buck........has to search the Gunny winter sagebrush range with snow on the ground on December 4..........has to break laws.......has to risk his reputation.......just to shoot a buck that ain't exactly a total monster or even close to comparative to the Gov tag bucks whacked in other states?

And just what part of 'lacking trophy deer' don't you understand???
 
Is this the Deal squirrel wouldn't talk much about?

How'd they miss that 300"er with their Tactics?

Probably only a 290"er the year before!:D






We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
 
>>Gunnison basin obviously has no trophy
>>deer left. Makes me
>>laugh when I hear that
>>over and over Again from
>>certain members on this forum...
>
>Let me see if I understand
>your point correctly here, Mr.
>Gunnison Fan.
>
>A guy buys an expensive Gov's
>tag.........has to hire a guide........has
>to fly to find a
>buck........has to search the Gunny
>winter sagebrush range with snow
>on the ground on December
>4..........has to break laws.......has to
>risk his reputation.......just to shoot
>a buck that ain't exactly
>a total monster or even
>close to comparative to the
>Gov tag bucks whacked in
>other states?
>
>And just what part of 'lacking
>trophy deer' don't you understand???
>


That deer is colossal!!! I would tell you to go watch the "hunt" on YouTube, but that would help Brownlee pay his next couple fines....
 
THANKS OAK.
Thank you and good job to the area 16 CPW this conviction was good for our mule deer.
Thank you and good job to the Deputy District Attorneys of the 7th Judicial District. This conviction was good for Colorado's mule deer.
Thank you to the witness's who filmed the deer running through snow with their mouths open. This conviction was good for our mule deer.

Bob cat no this wasn't Squirrels "deal" there were several deals up in his country too!!
Any body remember how many points he got on the ATV charge in Eagle County? I remember the DA dropped the trespass but he took a hit on the off road. He has got to be close to a compact state point suspension.
Any way the fine and points are set by the powers to be in Denver. The fact is he and his pilot buddy have been convicted. "This" case is closed.
Oh and nobody gets to hunt mule deer in December in Western Colorado any more! And THAT is good for Colorado's mule deer!
 
That picture doesn't do that buck justice, scores around 240. I think most would consider that to be in the "GIANT" class, but I've been wrong before. Glad to see Brownlee or whoever get caught, although I would have liked to see a stiffer penalty. Don't know the guy, but he seems kinda weasly to me. Wouldn't be surprised if he has been involved with much worse crooked activity's on the mountain.
 
Many of the Gov's tags in Arizona have yielded bucks in the 260"-280" range nontypical........plus some huge typicals. There have been two nontypicals that scored 300". A number of bucks over 40" outside spread. Dunno what the buck scored that Mossback guided to a few years ago that was in his video. It was a Strip buck too.

Heck, hunters kill 240"+ bucks on regular season tags in normal moisture years on the Strip and sometimes the Kaibab.

4th.jpg
 
I do think it's funny that y'all are so predictable that the press can put the picture of a legally taken deer in the article to piss you off.
 
Tristate, who said anything about the deer? I think what people are pissed about is that this guy is still operating as a licensed outfitter in the state after being written 3 violations in CO in 3 years (2011-2014, 2 convictions, one thrown out because the officer wrote the wrong violation on the ticket), has a 2005 conviction in WY, as well as WY convictions on 3 charges from 1994-1995. He has a history of taking laws lightly, and it's about time for it to cost him the livelihood he is earning from the public's wildlife (I know how that will chap your a$$).

I highly doubt this guy is so bad at breaking the law that he has been caught every time....
 
I forgot how lacking you are in the reading comprehension department. Nobody is mad about the deer. Yes, there was a side discussion about the size of the deer, and whether it was "worthy" of a "Governor's" license. The issue is the scumbag from UT with a history of taking the law lightly. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are intentionally clouding the issue.
 
>Coloradooak, Go read the posts
>and you will answer your
>own question.

Wiz,

The talk about the size of the deer and the current productivity of the Gunny Basin for big deer is a sidebar to the OP.........and is not the original topic. This sidebar has nothing to do with the article.......or the legality of the harvested buck.
 
>>Coloradooak, Go read the posts
>>and you will answer your
>>own question.
>
>Wiz,
>
>The talk about the size of
>the deer and the current
>productivity of the Gunny Basin
>for big deer is a
>sidebar to the OP.........and is
>not the original topic.
>This sidebar has nothing to
>do with the article.......or the
>legality of the harvested buck.
>

That's the current conversation about that deer. The published "on the hoof" photos was what was used to add fuel to the fire to get gov tag seasons cut short. There were plenty of ticked off people then.
 
Coloradooak, you have proven my point for me. You know what the relevant facts of the argument are therefore you should know the picture of the giant dead deer head is only there for emotional reasons to stimulate readers.
 
>ColoradoOak,
>
>What was Brownlee convicted of in
>Wyoming in 2005?


According to the letter in his file with the State of Colorado, it was a trespassing violation for failing to obey a Road Closed sign on an HMA.

Filename_zpsgvtvjztb.jpg
 
What???? I'm wayyyyyy over my head on this site. First I find out 240" isn't governors tag worthy, then you pull out some documented macgyver #####. I'm out. Better head back over to the muley madness form with the peasants.
 
>What???? I'm wayyyyyy over my head
>on this site. First I
>find out 240" isn't governors
>tag worthy, then you pull
>out some documented macgyver #####.
>I'm out. Better head back
>over to the muley madness
>form with the peasants.

Well FT,

You can always use your knowledge to help out the one-post-wonders who are now showing up here every day asking for free, unearned help.
 
What is sad is guys actually hire the "big toothed wonder dude" even though they know he breaks the law and hunts using tactics that they know break the law! Anyone that hires him and isn't aware of his past history need their heads examined and are just as guilty as he is. I wonder what laws he'll break this coming year? I have a feeling it is only a matter of time and he'll lose his guiding priveledges in all Western states. For the sake of those that abide by the law I hope this happens soon!
 
Only a matter of time before he is caught doing more stupid stunts.
Mr. Muledeer??? LMAO--Even with a helicopter, snowmobiles and ATV's illegally running amuck a regular hunter like us takes an almost 300" buck.
Mr. Phony Pony is more like it.
 
Yeah it is totally crap, $100 fine is not crap. Hell I bet it was not even 20% of his tip. The thing that pisses me off even more is this jack ass and clowns like caused the CPW to take an entire month of hunting away.

As far as a 240" buck being not worthy of a governors tag... It sounds like old strip hunter has been hitting the Colorado Whacky Tabacco too much. Sorry but 240 in any state with any tag is a hell of a buck! Sure in hell bigger than anything 99% of us will ever see with atag in hand!

But of course we all know that strip cl hunter knows everything about every unit, and he knows this because he can show us picture of 170 and 180 class bucks from the 90 and earlier!
 
I dont know about you guys but I save my scorn for cases with a little more meat in them. Like poaching.

This flight was legal. So the the only thing the flight had to do with it is, its easier to harass or scare wildlife from the air than it is from the ground and Brownlee was not the pilot so he was not the one at the controls in the chopper. We live in an interesting country when we hold trials to determine how frightened or harried the deer actually were and whether or not the monkeys piloting the aircraft were intentionally trying to scare them or if their tongues were hanging out from rutting or running from the chopper.

Again Brownlees driving down a road past a road closed sign does not seem like the Wildlife crime of the century nor does anything he did as a kid. What could prove bad for Colorado Mule deer is a drop in the price of the Governors tag and the conservation dollars it raises. This harm would result not from anything Mike Brownlee did but from CDW kneejerk reaction of cutting the extended season short.
 
Trammer, I wonder what B&C would say about any animal that qualifies for B&C with the aid of spotting from a copter? Nothing wrong with that....BS!

You also mention the fact that it's a shame that governor's/raffle tag hunters loose a month of hunting. In my eyes that's also a pile of cow plop! I think it's great that the governor's or auction tag hunters have to hunt the same dates as every other hunter that buys a tag in Colorado! Hunting monster muledeer bucks in rut on the winter range a month after everyone else is done hunting doesn't seem like a whole lot of sport to me? Also, there are a lot of eyes and ears out during the hunting season for crap that Mr Buckteeth can likely get away with on winter ranges after all season are over.
 
this buck was killed TWO WEEKS after the flight. plenty of time for that deer to have moved MILES.....I would bet a good percentage of dall and stone sheep are killed after they were spotted from the air and taken well within the 2 week period. I have no issue with either scenario. I know from my Alaska experience that the moose I took we saw from the air and it took 4 days to get back on him. most caribou hunts start with finding the herd and putting the hunters in their migration path...the harassment part they were charged and convicted of that but with the pic in the news puts a black mark on a the legal taking of that deer.



How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
With the past game violations of this outfitter it's difficult to believe any of his, or his clients game, we're legal and fair chase kills. That's not my problem, it's his. It's no different than the pro baseball player caught usein steroids, none of his records mean a thing.
 
I am not trying to argumentative but does that make all the democrats that worked with Clinton cheater, liars and commit perjury? guilt by association? I am guessing you paint with a LARGE brush.
 
I don't blame his clients, I suspect some of them had no knowledge of his past transgressions. But it begs the question, was everything on the up and up prior to the client strolling in and takein the shot.
 
FAIR CHASE STATEMENT
FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.
HUNTER ETHICS
Fundamental to all hunting is the concept of conservation of natural resources. Hunting in today's world involves the regulated harvest of individual animals in a manner that conserves, protects, and perpetuates the hunted population. The hunter engages in a one-to-one relationship with the quarry and his or her hunting should be guided by a hierarchy of ethics related to hunting, which includes the following tenets:
1. Obey all applicable laws and regulations.
2. Respect the customs of the locale where the hunting occurs.
3. Exercise a personal code of behavior that reflects favorably on your abilities and sensibilities as a hunter.
4. Attain and maintain the skills necessary to make the kill as certain and quick as possible.
5. Behave in a way that will bring no dishonor to either the hunter, the hunted, or the environment.
6. Recognize that these tenets are intended to enhance the hunter's experience of the relationship between predator and prey, which is one of the most fundamental relationships of humans and their environment.

Take a look at rules #9 and 10 in the Colorado hunting regs. Sounds like Mr. Buckteeth was breaking the law to me! Any deer his clients have taken with aid of spotting from air craft should be thrown out of the B&C books! It's black and white he and his clients were breaking Colorado law!
 
Sometimes these posts just make me shake my head in amazement at you guys. This game is almost always played as follows. The Mark ($) sits at home sorting through pics and video clips that the outfitter scoops up personally or vicariously from what you people call the posse members. What the outfitter or posse guys do is largely unknown-and in many cases overlooked by the mark as "doin what ya gotta do", he is focused only on the result, not the process. This isn't a hunt for the mark, it is a shoot, the hunting is done by others, chasing phantom bucks and rumors of same. Mostly from idiots and liars, idiots that don't know a 170 from a 200, and liars that just want to "bask in the glow" for some unknown-fathomable reason. Most marks will settle for "somewhat legal" never mind fair chase. (Face it if you were fair chase minded would you aspire to this hunt model in the first place?). They already paid their fine money in afores and in spades in their view. (And sadly the DPW has those that see it this way too) Getting your panties all wadded up about book entries getting thrown out, are there any?? And when the mark is 2000 miles away, and separated by weeks in time, when the dirty deeds are done in his name, how is he liable, and how could you possibly make the case, he wasn't there... Now if you can pay the ticket for a chopper ride that $100 had to be pretty scary stuff! I believe Clancy wrote if you shake a hay stack and a needle falls out what are the chances it was the only one in there??? If a cursory look from a distance divulges these transgressions what do you think REALLY GOES ON? It ain't pretty, eliminate the tags.
 
For the few regular Joes that get lucky enough to draw the raffle tag each year, it was unfair to cut the season short. The big money auction tag "shooters" are the problem, so cut the auction tag season. They took a velvet buck last year anyways.
 
I'm not exactly sure why it is unfair to cut the season short for governor's plus auction tag holders? Is it "fair" to hunt monster muley bucks on the winter range a month or 2 after every public hunter has hung his rifle up for the season....I don't think so! Eliminating that hunt was one of the best things that has happened in Colo for a long, long time! Just think of all the head aches game wardens and others had dealing with all the crap that went on with those hunts!
 
The biggest fault in the Governors Deer tag is allowing out of state "outfitters" to come in and profit from our state's mule deer in what some would consider a vulnerable state. We all know that any time Brownlee, Moss, Hill, and the rest of the posse gets involved it's going to be a hell of a dog and pony show. I've witnessed it for years in Eagle and Gunnison county over the years. I feel that the CPW could do much better things by make sure the tag holders must book with in state LICENSED outfitters or just do away with the auction tags all together and make everything raffle like the Wyoming super tags for instance.

Coloradoboy
 
Typically Brownlee will attempt to go through an outfitter whom has the permit on the area he finds a buck on public lands. Typically most decent outfitters know better than to associate with him for the sake of their reputations. The Lazy F Bar in Gunnison has buddied up with him and Doyle a few times over the years.

Coloradoboy
 
Other than that 1, I haven't heard of but 1 other reputable guide service in the area and really none for deer, so what is there to lose?
 
You guys that talk like Brownlee has such a shady reputation from my vantage point appear to have more questionable morals than he does. For one thing, I know of no animal that he has ever been accused of unlawfully taking. I know of no harm that he has caused Wildlife or any other natural resource.

I get that he may have driven past a road closed sign (can you tell us for sure if the road was actually closed or if the road was open and the ranger just hadnt taken the sign down yet?) and someone thought that the deer they were airborn scouting may have been disturbed by the helicopter (My bet is that this claim was only made after the flight had been falsely reported as illegal was determined to be perfectly legal) I also get that as a kid he attempted to obtain a resident deer tag that he did not qualify for. So what.I probly ought to be in prison for all the crap I did as a kid. How many decades need to pass and how much tar and feathering do you guys want to dish out for his long paid for offense before you are happy?
 
Trammer,

I can see why you have no problem with Brownlee breaking the law considering your multiple "misunderstandings" with the law yourself.

You and Brownlee are just victims...as per always.

Never could figure out why its not easier for some to just stay on the right side of the law.
 
>How many decades need to
>pass and how much tar
>and feathering do you guys
>want to dish out for
>his long paid for offense
>before you are happy?


For him, 10 decades, 40 gallons of tar and three geese worth of feathers seems about right. After that all prior transgressions will be forgotten.
 
LMAO. A $100 dollar fine? This is worse than Operation Navajo and the lack of a companion permit. No doubt that that guide was probably in the helicopter, but you got to be kidding me. Brownlee was not the pilot and my info tells me that the guy who had the video of the deer running around with their mouths open was a joke. No where could you see or hear the chopper when the video was shown to DOW personnel. The envy on this site is frightening.
 
That had me wondering too ybo it would be interesting to know the level of flight, amount of pursuit/repeat passes etc of the flight. It is after all completely counterproductive to their goal to displace/disturb these animals. My guess is if the jury was picked from this group he would be guilty if he flew over in the space shuttle with a pair of bushnells. And it might be warranted (he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer) but the prosecution ain't exactly the driven snow in this specific behavior either... And they selectively edit to favor their argument. Give stingers to the deer. Kind of like in that crocodile Dundee movie.
 
>That had me wondering too ybo
>it would be interesting to
>know the level of flight,
>amount of pursuit/repeat passes etc
>of the flight. It
>is after all completely counterproductive
>to their goal to displace/disturb
>these animals.

I wasn't there nor in the courtroom hearing the entire case, all I have basically is this thread. Displacing animals onto a private lease that they have exclusive rights too, and can drive an old boy on a fourwheeler to within shooting range, would be extremely productive. We've all seen it and read about it many times. But, as I said, I wasn't there.
 
That's not generally the way the game is played. You find the victim, establish who controls the land, and gain access with umbrella coverage (subcontracting in the case of public lands) Or simply cut a check, leave a horse head in the ranchers bed or any other " offer he can't refuse". If he refuses add a zero, works quite frequently! These guys cast a wide net long term leases or territories are not the business model. All they need in most cases is a one day "get out of jail free" card, why spend and lock up country which may never produce a buck like this again? Coloboy I was unaware that moral purity was determined by state boundaries. I'm assuming you know the residencies of those you mention above??
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-15 AT 06:53PM (MST)[p]>That's not generally the way the
>game is played. You
>find the victim, establish who
>controls the land, and gain
>access with umbrella coverage (subcontracting
>in the case of public
>lands) Or simply cut
>a check, leave a horse
>head in the ranchers bed
>or any other " offer
>he can't refuse". If he
>refuses add a zero, works
>quite frequently!
>These guys cast a wide
>net long term leases or
>territories are not the business
>model. All they need
>in most cases is a
>one day "get out of
>jail free" card, why spend
>and lock up country which
>may never produce a buck
>like this again? Coloboy
>I was unaware that moral
>purity was determined by state
>boundaries. I'm assuming you
>know the residencies of those
>you mention above??

Moral purity by state lines??? I'm not catching your drift here I suppose. My only point made was that in my OPINION out of state outfitters with no real permit in Colorado should not be allowed to cash in on Governors tags that are initially intended to provide money first and foremost towards the conservation and preservation of Colorado's mule deer, not fattening a lucky land owner or Brownlee's wallet. Auction type governors tags have become an ugly thing throughout the west I feel and have moved far off track of what the original intentions of what the tags were founded upon.

Coloradoboy
 
For those that don't believe Mr Buckteeth hasn't done anything wrong...it's pretty evident from the multitude of charges that have been filed against him over the years that he's everything but a class act! Who knows how many other things he's done wrong and never gotten caught! On the bright side now he has to guide at the same time as all others in Colo so he's more likely to get caught and prosecuted because there are a bunch of eyes and ears that will be watching! It's obvious from his past history that's its only a matter of time before his license will be pulled in all states. I don't know about you but I'm looking forward to the day that happens...and it will happen if he continues on the track he follows!
 
I'm pretty sure all 3 are "real CO outfitters". Read the above copy of admonishment. 2 are for sure, or at least were, I don't care enough to check. I'm assuming you are bitching about their ability to subcontract and gain territory. Agency sub-agency contracting and subcontracting effect huge swaths of interstate commerce and I just don't see trying to tailor legislation to fix 200 yrs of custom so MM audience can enact a vendetta against someone. If Horsey went face down in his cornflakes tomorrow am do you really think nobody would step up and carry on the dog and pony show? The players are pull n plug components in a bigger picture.
 
Your hate for Mr. Brownlee is a lot deeper than a couple of pisscutter infractions. Basically speeding tickets like Marco Rubios. What gives? Has Brownlee been peeing on your toilet seats?
 
Just out of curiosity, what do you think he was doing with that helicopter upsidethehead?
 
>Just out of curiosity, what do
>you think he was doing
>with that helicopter upsidethehead?


In that area, could have been making a quick trip to McDonald's for morning coffee and the right person saw who was in it.
 
>Just out of curiosity, what do
>you think he was doing
>with that helicopter upsidethehead?


Well to take a wild guess I'm thinkin he may have been looking at deer...??? As per usual the gang on here focuses on everything but what they should. To know the paulharvey rest of the story I want to know details about the anonymous "bystander" He didn't just stick out his thumb and end up on that chopper. I have my suspicions about his role but have no factual knowledge whatsoever, of course on MM facts generally don't much matter unless they support your side.
 
>I'm pretty sure all 3 are
>"real CO outfitters". Read the
>above copy of admonishment.
>2 are for sure, or
>at least were, I don't
>care enough to check.
>I'm assuming you are bitching
>about their ability to subcontract
>and gain territory. Agency
>sub-agency contracting and subcontracting effect
>huge swaths of interstate commerce
>and I just don't see
>trying to tailor legislation to
>fix 200 yrs of custom
>so MM audience can enact
>a vendetta against someone.
>do you really think nobody If Horsey went face down in his cornflakes tomorrow am do you really think nobody would step up and carry on the dog and pony show? The players are pull n plug components in a bigger picture.

Pretty good reason to change the picture, Huh? In my world there would be no Governors tag later than any other season and it would be by raffle only. There would also be no tag pimps operating in the gray area that CPW ignores.
 
>> There
>would also be no tag
>pimps operating in the gray
>area that CPW ignores.


Knee deep in the same slop, feeding at the same trough, and posting on here like they have no role whatsoever!
 
>>> There
>>would also be no tag
>>pimps operating in the gray
>>area that CPW ignores.
>
>
>Knee deep in the same slop,
>feeding at the same trough,
>and posting on here like
>they have no role whatsoever!

I guess operating outside of the laws doesn't concern you.

I am knee deep in the same trough as all the other ethical and legal hunters on this site. I am Proud of it as a matter of fact, that's the way I choose to lead my Life. You apparently believe anything goes in the game of money and 'trophies'.
 
Legit question: Since B&C doesn't accept velvet animals, is it ethical to shoot them? Even if you scrape, that's not what you shot.... should archery and ML season get cut out and moved to after 4th season to get away from this grey area of ethics?
 
>>Just out of curiosity, what do
>>you think he was doing
>>with that helicopter upsidethehead?
>
>
>Well to take a wild guess
>I'm thinkin he may have
>been looking at deer...???
>As per usual the gang
>on here focuses on everything
>but what they should.
>To know the paulharvey rest
>of the story I want
>to know details about the
>anonymous "bystander" He
>didn't just stick out his
>thumb and end up on
>that chopper. I have
>my suspicions about his role
>but have no factual knowledge
>whatsoever, of course on MM
>facts generally don't much matter
>unless they support your side.
>

"Looking" at deer? All we have is the limited info in the article. "A sweeping pattern" suggests attempting to move something. The third person could have been some chic he was tryin to impress for all we know. The lack of charges would suggest this as a likely scenario.
 
You apparently
>believe anything goes in the
>game of money and 'trophies'.
>

Extraordinary zealotry on the part of the moderators, so we will re-phrase. I was unaware you pimped tags my comment was not aimed at you. Would you please point out where the above limited quote was warranted by anything I have posted.? Since yours are already in a wad let me help by addressing another point you made. The CP&W doesn't ignore (wish it were so!) they are criminally complicit, as in they specifically give special dispensation to benefit the auction tag holder AND ONLY THE AUCTION TAG HOLDER that allow what would otherwise be clearly and plainly illegal. I am talking high level dispensation not just field level "look the other way" stuff. Straight from 6060 Broadway. It follows that Mike, after having been given an inch reached for a mile. He made several mistakes, he did it in Gunnison, where sportsmen are notoriously ill tempered. And he should have gotten the go-ahead first. But most importantly he got caught. Not much sense in going much further this one won't last long. Like Jack said "you can't handle the truth"!!
 
There should be no if-ands-or-buts about it. Plain and simiple, why would an outfitter be flying around on the winter range while the governor's season is open? It's pretty black and white to me! One thing for sure...now that the governor's tag has to hunt the same season as everyone else that likely won't happen! That's the best thing that came out of Mr. Buckteeth's deal! Mr. Buckteeth (and anyone like him)....our eyes will be watching your every move in future years here in Colo...so get your frick'n act together and hunt fair chase with your dam feet on the ground just like everyone else!
 
>Legit question: Since B&C doesn't
>accept velvet animals, is it
>ethical to shoot them?
>Even if you scrape, that's
>not what you shot....
>should archery and ML season
>get cut out and moved
>to after 4th season to
>get away from this grey
>area of ethics?

What has Boone and Crockett have to do with ethics?
 
>>Legit question: Since B&C doesn't
>>accept velvet animals, is it
>>ethical to shoot them?
>>Even if you scrape, that's
>>not what you shot....
>>should archery and ML season
>>get cut out and moved
>>to after 4th season to
>>get away from this grey
>>area of ethics?
>
>What has Boone and Crockett have
>to do with ethics?

Just an observation, but they seem to be the "authority" on it when it comes to setting standards.
 
>>>Legit question: Since B&C doesn't
>>>accept velvet animals, is it
>>>ethical to shoot them?
>>>Even if you scrape, that's
>>>not what you shot....
>>>should archery and ML season
>>>get cut out and moved
>>>to after 4th season to
>>>get away from this grey
>>>area of ethics?
>>
>>What has Boone and Crockett have
>>to do with ethics?
>
>Just an observation, but they seem
>to be the "authority" on
>it when it comes to
>setting standards.

Standards yes, ethics no.
 
Aren't they the same thing when it comes to fair chase and ethical behavior? If there's no standard for ethics wouldn't that imply that the anything goes approach with some gov tags are as ethical as chasing them with a loincloth and a sharp stick during an normal open season?
 
Most of you guys are missing the point. The point is that the flight by state law was legal. The harassment was not and the harassment could have just as easily come from an ATV. So if deer were running from someones ATV it is exactly the same "crime". If you have ever scared a deer with your truck you have committed the same crime.

Now, what I wonder is if this is a harbinger. If the other shoe will drop. If this charge was made by the state in order to clear the way for a Federal Airborne Hunting Act charge. You see the Feds have a particularly nasty law that forbids airborne hunting and includes a deluge of fraudulent definitions in the Law or the act that screw, blew and tattoo unsuspecting honest sportsmen.

For example in the FAHA one does not even have to take wildlife in order to take wildlife. I have been told by one of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Officers that enforces the Airborne Hunting Act that scaring wildlife is treated as "taking" it. So a frightened animal is handled in the law, For those of you intellectually challenged people who love the law, as if it were killed. In fact it does even need to be frightened "annoyed" counts as killing too. So if it is determined by one of the shiny shod people that one of these animals was "annoyed" by the flight, you monsters and lovers of law, may still get your wish. Bottom line is Brownlee is still not out of the woods on a 1 and a half year (probably more like 2 year, with all of his priors) minimum mandatory Federal prison sentence, a 100,000.00 fine as well as loss of the aircraft. I wonder if you human pieces of garbage,you haters, you hennas would then feel like justice had been served. When you see one of your fellow sportsmen unjustly roasted like a pig...or would you need to follow it up by cooking a few Jews in gas chamber? Would that make feel like the state had made its point?
 
Trammer you obviously feed off the same hay bale as Brownlee.

Your contempt for "true sportsmen" who have a problem with those not following laws in place really is laughable.
 
Harassment of wildlife is a very arbitrary law. We were bugling at elk on a section of private property bordering a national park. National park enforcement officer approached us with the local game Warden and told us we could be cited for bugling at elk in the park. After a somewhat heated debate, the local game warden backed off, as the national park officer continued to argue about a law he even admitted was a gray area. Basically wildlife harassment can be left up to law enforcement to interpret. Kind of scary!
 
>Most of you guys are missing
>the point. The point is
>that the flight by state
>law was legal. The harassment
>was not and the harassment
>could have just as easily
>come from an ATV. So
>if deer were running from
>someones ATV it is exactly
>the same "crime". If you
>have ever scared a deer
>with your truck you have
>committed the same crime.
>
> Now, what I wonder
>is if this is a
>harbinger. If the other shoe
>will drop. If this charge
>was made by the state
>in order to clear the
>way for a Federal Airborne
>Hunting Act charge. You see
>the Feds have a particularly
>nasty law that forbids airborne
>hunting and includes a deluge
>of fraudulent definitions in the
>Law or the act that
>screw, blew and tattoo unsuspecting
>honest sportsmen.
>
> For example in the
>FAHA one does not even
>have to take wildlife in
>order to take wildlife. I
>have been told by one
>of the U.S. Fish and
>Wildlife Officers that enforces the
>Airborne Hunting Act that scaring
>wildlife is treated as "taking"
>it. So a frightened animal
>is handled in the law,
>For those of you intellectually
>challenged people who love the
>law, as if it were
>killed. In fact it does
>even need to be frightened
>"annoyed" counts as killing too.
>So if it is determined
>by one of the shiny
>shod people that one of
>these animals was "annoyed" by
>the flight, you monsters and
>lovers of law, may still
>get your wish. Bottom line
>is Brownlee is still not
>out of the woods on
>a 1 and a half
>year (probably more like 2
>year, with all of his
>priors) minimum mandatory Federal prison
>sentence, a 100,000.00 fine as
>well as loss of the
>aircraft. I wonder if you
>human pieces of garbage,you haters,
>you hennas would then feel
>like justice had been served.
>When you see one of
>your fellow sportsmen unjustly roasted
>like a pig...or would you
>need to follow it up
>by cooking a few Jews
>in gas chamber? Would that
>make feel like the state
>had made its point?


Trammer, if somebody is using their truck or ATV in a "sweeping pattern" (quoted from the article)... then they should be charged with wildlife harassment, regardless of whether the vehicle is on the ground or in the air.

PS. Nice Nazi reference (see Godwin's Law).

Grizzly
 
My contact,again, tells me that the swooping pattern was more of a back and forth motion with very little gradient change. Hence the small fine. Just thought you haters might want to know.
 
?It was the fact that they were flying at a low elevation and were using a sweeping pattern,? he explained. ?And it was the behavior of the animals. ? The video footage showed the deer were responding to the helicopter.?



Again, I was not present during the incident or the trial, nor have I seen the video, but this statement eludes to it being more than "looking".
 
Let us not forget that Mike Brownlee was convicted of shooting a mule deer and elk in the late 90s in wyoming without a tag.

Trammer why don't you tell us about all the meat you left on your animals up in alaska?
 

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