colorado draw quest?

[northwesthunter]

If the points banking system is out this year do you think it will make the odds a little better in the 0-1 point draw units. We hunt unit 31 3rd season and it used to not sell out but the last few years has gotten worse for odds and last year without a point you wouldn't draw. Wondered if it was because of the bank system where guys could draw it and only lose a point but now maybe they won't go that route. Also does colorado look at all first choice before going to second choice? Thanks for any help. nwhunter

 

[HiMtnHntr]

Your reasoning is sound. You might check the stats to see by how much of a margin the applicants were over the quota in that unit. Those people with a particular hunt code as their first choice will draw before anyone with the same hunt code as their second choice.

 

[txhunter58]

Click on this link: http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/BigGame/Statistics/

then click on Hunt Recap. Then find your hunt code and look all the way to the right. That tells you how many of each point totals applied for that hunt. Compare it to the last year and you will have your answer.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[smilesgv]

northwesthunter, Colorado does look at all first choices which is great for non residents but screws residents. Begin a resident I believe CO needs to stick with the 65/35 split for residents/ non residents. On some of the early/late season elk hunts the results are 90/10 non to residents. So if my wife wants to get a preference point and put in for late cow hunt close to home, all the tags go to non residents due to the fact that she puts it down as a second choice. DOW should fill the allocation with the 65/35, if not enough residents put down that unit as a first choice then go to the second choice and make it a lottery. I feel stronly about this and wiil be going to several Wildlife Commision meeting to express my views. I encourage other CO residents to do the same.

 

[BCHunter]

>northwesthunter, Colorado does look at all
>first choices which is great
>for non residents but screws
>residents. Begin a resident
>I believe CO needs to
>stick with the 65/35 split
>for residents/ non residents.
>On some of the early/late
>season elk hunts the results
>are 90/10 non to residents.
> So if my wife
>wants to get a preference
>point and put in for
>late cow hunt close to
>home, all the tags go
>to non residents due to
>the fact that she puts
>it down as a second
>choice. DOW should fill
>the allocation with the 65/35,
>if not enough residents put
>down that unit as a
>first choice then go to
>the second choice and make
>it a lottery. I
>feel stronly about this and
>wiil be going to several
>Wildlife Commision meeting to express
>my views. I encourage
>other CO residents to do
>the same.

You are kidding right? If you want to hunt, put it down as your first choice. Everyone that WANTS to hunt that area and makes it a priority should get it. Some of the Res hunters just amaze me. Colorado is listed as one of the most unfriendly NonRes. places to hunt. Why don't you just go to the meeting and tell them what you really want "I want to hunt everywhere I want to at a cheap price and have someone else pay for it". At least you wouldn't waste anyone's time with all of the BS.

 

[REDDOG]

I am with BChunter, do you ever hunt as a non-res? if not i would say the people your wanting to cap are much more dedicated than you. if you do hunt out of state that statement is assinine and your probly barking up the wrong tree on this web site.

 

[txhunter58]

Sorry smilesgv, but I have to dissagree with you too. After all, you can hunt that unit every year if you put it down as a first choice. But you want a point and a guaranteed tag too. A little much in my book.

Only way you might have a shot is to tell them that you will pay the $250 for a cow tag that we pay if you get pulled as a second choice. Otherwise, they won't listen, since they need our money. As I am sure you know, nonresidents currently supply 70% of tag revenue.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[nripepi]

I am definitely a non-resident and hunt CO everyother year, but I see what smilesgv is saying though. The split of 65/35 is definitely fair, more so than pretty much all of the other western states. Why go higher than that? Sounds to me like it is a money making set-up.

Interesting none the less.

 

[jims]

As far as pt banking I have a feeling the draw odds in 2007 will still be affected. If you think about it there were likely a bunch of guys with quite a few pts that banked last year and had additional pts left over. They likely will apply for units that they can draw with their few remaining pts this coming year or in the next couple years.

Guys that didn't draw tags last year because their unit took more pts to draw (with all the pt banking guys applying) have 1 additional pt in the unit where they applied and didn't draw. I have a feeling the low pref pt units will likely be tougher to draw from this pt on since guys that previously just applied for pts took advantage of pt banking and are now applying for units rather than just applying for a pref pt.

 

[smilesgv]

nrepepi, thanks for the support on this issue. What I am talking about is my wife and son begin able to possible ( not every year) go on a hunt with a little less pressure ( have a positive experience) and have a chance to get a few preference points for a muzzle loader hunt. jims is right about about the low pref point units taking more and more to draw, this has been real noticable the last two years. The concerns I have where not happening back two years ago. BChunter, I have got my elk every year for the last eight and have to work harder every year because hunting pressure has increases. I do put in other states ( UT, WY, MT, ). I know I will never draw a trophy tag in CO. I have no problem with thier regs, I take my chances. IF CO is so any friendly tell me where eles can a non resident walk up and get a over the conter tags. LOL

 

[BCHunter]

The unfriendly part is due to the difference in the tags prices from Res to NR and under the current system the opportunity to hunt an LE unit. Largest in the West as I understand it. Res have all of the advantages and then you want to change the rules so you can create another advantage. You want your cake and eat it too.

As I have stated on other threads, I think all hunters in LE units should pay the same for tags. It is LE and since it is the DOW loses revenue and has to raise tags everywhere else to make up for it. Leave the split the same. Res under the current system could possibly hunt an LE unit twice before a NR can and that is fine as long as you pay for the privilage (sp).

If you want to Trophy hunt then pay for. If you want to meat hunt or just hunt (however you define it) then pay the regular fee. I just don't see how Res can continue to demand that NR pay the lions share of the revenue and at some point not expect them to yell uncle.

 

[jims]

BCHunter, I hate to be the messenger of bad news but Colo's nonres deer tags are the least expensive of just about every Western state.

Here is the deer breakdown: Colorado res/nonres $31/$301, Wyoming $31/$461. Utah $138/$563, Nevada $63/$382, New Mexico $39/$355. It looks to me Colo deer tags are a pretty good bargain!

Here are the elk fees: Colo res/nonres $46/$501, Wyo $43/$881(S), UT $280/$795 (Prem), NV $120/$1,200, and NM $89/$766(P). Colo nonres tags are currently $300 to $700 cheaper than any of the states listed above.

Colo also offers nonres 35/65 split while just about every state in the West nonres only get 10% of the tags. There also aren't too many states that allow unlimited elk hunting options for nonres! I definitely wouldn't complain if I were a Colo nonres!

With that said, as a Colo res I would be willing to pay higher license fees if it meant less crowded conditions and better quality animals. If you've been in Colo's unlimited elk units you know exactly what I'm talking about!

 

[BCHunter]

Hate to let you know but all of the premium LE units are 80-20 split. The 65/35 split is for units with less than 5 points needed to draw. The difference is between the Res vs NR cost. The cost is 10 times more for Res than NR (elk - what I hunt).

An LE unit means less crowded by limiting numbers and better animals. So you are saying you are willing to pay the same as a NR. I think that is great. The DOW needs to here that at their next meeting. On across the counter tags, the cost Res vs NR tags are fine with me. I realize what you are talking about on over the counter tags, but it's a chance to hunt.

The reason they offer so many over the counter tags is that the elk herds are way over objectives. It has nothing to do with Res being kind to NR. We are footing 70% of the tag revenue (you guys ought to be greatful we pay for your animals). That's why they are hesitant (sp) to make more units LE. If more Res. like you would push for the same cost for a tag as a NR in the LE units then the DOW may make more units LE because they could pay for them. You would still have problems with herd numbers, but there would be bigger bulls for a while.

You did not address the creating another advantage part of the thread so I guess you agree that an additional advantage is a bit much. Thanks

 

[jims]

BC, I hate to break the news but I am in the minority as a Colo res that would be willing to pay more than the present res price for tags. I have a feeling if a pole was taken 90% of Colo residents would be against raising the price of res tags and 90% of Colo would be for raising the price of nonres tags even more than they already are for nonres. I think a comprimise could likely be worked out in LE or premium units where tags cost both res and nonres more than what the regular price tags for unlimited or non-LE units cost?

If you look at the list I made of nonres deer and elk prices Colo is a bargain compared to most other states. I have a feeling it will only be a matter of time when all Colo elk units will be limited and license fees will likely go up to account for the losses (both res and nonres). There is only so much pressure that units can withstand and I think we are getting pretty close to a thresh-hold?

BC, what do you think about Colo charging $60 to $100+/year for buying a license in order to apply for limited tags and gain pref pts? If you look at Wyo, ID, WA, AZ, NV, and MT that is exactly how much nonres have to pay for a license whether they draw a deer or elk tag or not!

The main method for controlling booming elk populations is provide more cow tags. I don't think nonres are willing to pay a whole lot more for those tags and it may be worth dropping the price of nonres tags to make them more attractive? Hunting cows on private land as well as in late seasons will allieve some of the public land pressure.

One other obstacle for promoting more LE elk units is financial losses to the small communities with fewer hunters. I have a feeling this is one of the biggest obstacles there is?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the additional advantages?

 

[BCHunter]

jims, great post. The States you mentioned that charge a fee to apply provide a much better chance at a Trophy that Co. That makes it a catch 22. Is the DOW willing to lose money in the short run because people will not pay it until the quality comes up? I would think not since the herds are still over objectives.

I have had several conversations with the DOW about the availability of cow tags to NR. The way it stands now, NR have to use a point to get one unless you buy a LO tag that is good only on the LO property.

I don't understand why so many Res are oppossed to paying a premium for a premium tag. If I understand it right, NM has a tiered structure on cost based on unit demand. I think that is a good system, but I think it should be applied to Res and NR alike. As a NR if you get an over the counter tags then you pay $350, but if you draw an LE unit then you pay $800 (all that just as an example) would be fine with me. I also think that the Res should be included in this equation. If they buy an OTC tag then they pay $49, but if they get an LE tag then they pay the same $800 like everybody else. It's a premium tag and you should have to pay a premium.

I have noticed that the general public (meaning NR hunters) have become more vocal on tag prices over the last couple of years. That means in general terms that the DOW's are getting to the point of losing current hunters and not gaining any additional hunters (young people) due to tag prices.

Whether the Res like it or not, they will have to at some point be responsible for taking up the slack of less hunters with substatially increased prices to them and will be the first to cry about it becoming a rich mans sport when they have been the recipiant (sp) of a great deal with the NR paying the majority of the tag prices for years (how about that for a run on sentence). I think the last thing that anybody wants is for the Feds to get involved (it is their land). However, with the cost of hunting on Federal land becoming so high to NR, they may complain enough that they have too.

I was told by several different organizations that the only way to get anything done as a NR was get organized as a group. That could be a real alternative. We hold the money and that what makes it work (I'm not trying to start a fight just stating a fact). I ask several individuals at the DOW what would happen if hunters from Tx, OK, LA and Ark decided as a group not come just 1 year. They said it would devastate the DOW budgets in serveral States. If it gets too out of whack someone or a group may just think it is worth it to get them organized.

Sorry for the novel. Happy Valentines Day to every one.

 

[txhunter58]

There are still cow opportunites out there for NR without using points if you look hard enough. I drew a cow tag as a second choice last fall.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[BCHunter]

58, We have hunted unit 62 for 7 years. They have extra cow tags that go unused by the locals. We have asked the DOW if we can access these unused tags as an extra tag and the answer is no. I guess if we as a group want to change areas for just cow tags I guess we could. They told us we could buy an LO tag. The ones available to NR are LO use only. I ask how they monitored the use of this tag and they said they didn't. They said there are plenty so we should just buy one. We told them we didn't know any land owners in the area. They said they didn't care.

They told us they needed the cows tags to be used to keep the herd in check. We ask them to change the rules so we could help. They said the Res would not let them. Oh Well

 

[jims]

BCHunter, Thanks for your comments! If you ask any trophy muley hunter in the US which state is currently producing as many B&C muley bucks as anywhere else in the nation...guess where they would pick? Colo also offers more nonres bighorn sheep, mtn goat, moose, and other quality tags than just about any state. I kind of snickered when you mentioned that Colo is not producing quality animals! Would you be willing to pay $50 to $100/license each year to accumulate pts and a chance to apply for deer, elk, antelope, bighorn, mtn goat, and moose in Colo? Most Western states are doing this and it may happen in Colo!

As far as organizations attempting to change nonres fees, tag numbers, etc. there was a group that tried this in Nevada a couple years ago. They had lots of $ and NV actually upped nonres tag numbers that year. I'm not exactly sure what happened but I believe nonres tag numbers are back to where they were?

There have been several individuals and groups that have tried to change Wyo's strange nonres guide in wilderness rule for many years but it has never changed. If you really think about it Alaska is the same way. They require AK nonres to hire a guide to hunt dall sheep, grizz/brown bear, and mtn goat. Someone that just moves up to AK that has no experience in the outdoors can hunt these species while nonres w/years under there belts are screwed! You can fish, small game/bird hunt in Wyo wilderness or Alaska without a guide but you can't hunt many of the big game species?

If you ask me Colo nonres have a great thing going compared to most surrounding states! As a Colo res I really think the residents are getting screwed!

 

[BCHunter]

I was thinking Elk when I wrote that about the quality. I used to buy a deer tag but since Elk tags have gone up so much I quit.

The only way any organization can change anything is with the all mighty dollar. Since the NR pay the majority of the tag fees in most if not all Western States, the only way to change is by not buying the tags as a group.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the Res getting screwed part. I don't see how that is possible with the current system. This is one of the few areas in this country where the one paying the most money gets the short end of the stick and they are told they better like it. Oh Well