Elk and 4 wheelers

Zigga

Long Time Member
Messages
4,760
I recently met up with 2 bowhunters in Montana that claimed they killed a 6-point bull. The problem was they were on Forest Service Land but a mile and a half off the trail in a remote area on a 4-wheeler. I turned them in hoping a citation will be given. Doesn't this give hunters and ATVers a bad name. This subject has probably been beaten to death, but I'm interested in some points of view on this matter.
 
Who has more rights ? The horse driver or the wheeler driver.
If your going to be a purist, then horses should not be allowed either. It gives more privledges to a minority. If 10 hunters walk in, and one on horse is going by asking how things are ??
Dont tell me the 10 think its fair, or want to see him.. I'm glad wheelers are not allowed where I hunt, I dont want to see those either, but to reteive an animal ? maybe both could be used..Its the human nature thing.. A few wreck it for the rest..
Horses have not been here that long.. weren't they brought here and introduced to the native americans?
 
I have to disagree with you on the horses, but the 4 wheelers shouldn't be allowed to tear up the country and abused like they have been. A 4 wheeler is a motorized vehical and shouldn't be allowed off of the roads. People just abuse the privlages that they are given and all of us a bad name. If the sign says no motorized vehicals then stay on the road, or better yet park the ATV and actually use your legs.
 
4 wheelers suck. I dont care to beat this deadhorse other than I want more, but not all, areas CLOSED to them.

Its getting harder and hard to get away from the ATV crowd in montana. I was backpacking this weekend in the bighole valley and ran into illegal ATV use. Just like last year in the bitterroot and the year before in the missouri breaks.

ATVs Suck!
 
No way should 4 wheelers be allowed off established 4x4 roads. I'm using one this fall, but only to access a trailhead.
 
I think if we keep turning these violators in, maybe the word will spread and it won't be such a big problem. It would be nice if rewards were given to make it worth our while.
 
keep turning the lazy asses in. I own 3 quads and would never think about taking one elk hunting. Learn to walk or stay home is my motto
 
here in montana, turning them in has provided no results. The forest service just doesnt seem to care, which astounds me.
 
I just returned from AZ, had two morning hunts absolutely screwed by dumbasses on a quad. We were sitting in the dark with 4 bulls right below us just getting light enough to move into position and these guys ride up within 100' of Mr. Big.

We see these guys in there full Leafy-Flauge with face masks and all and let them know they just hosed us.

Oh well, go huntin.

Next morning, same area, 1/2 mile away, same scenario, sitting on a meatball, same two knotheads ride right between them at shooting hours, talking over the noise of the quad. We tried to keep up with the elk, but they were in high gear.

I use horses, they are alot of work, they are traditional, impact can be kept to no more than an elk's impact.

Quads are fine on rough roads if you don't want to tear up your pickup. But should be kept on roads.

DO NOT ride them around during prime hunting times, for cryin out loud!!
 
Believe it or not, it is LEGAL (in AZ) to ride your ATV anywhere you want to, as long as the area is not 'closed to motor vehicles.' This means that you don't need a road or path or trail. I don't support this type of ATV use, but it is an ethical question rather than a legal one.

I support the use of ATV's to recover downed game, especially elk. I don't see a problem if the two men in colorado were recovering an elk, especially if they were on the same 4 wheeler. If ATV's were used as tools rather than toys, we'd have far fewer problems.

-ajk
 
I've been hunting elk for 15 years and never once have I used a fourwheeler to help with the packing chores. I don't even own one. Last season I shot a 5x5 bull in the bottom of a draw, after 5 trips packing out I was going in for the last one and some jerk comes flying down through the trees on the same trail I'm on and has the balls to ask me if I've seen any "elks". I just turned around and went back to work. Sure they are fun, but keep them on the roads where they belong. Slu...
 
The other major problem with using 4 wheelers off established roads is they tear the ground up. I know they have special tires that aren't supposed to do that but come one when some guy goes tearing up a hill it tears the ground up and then next year that is a big rut where the water ran down the tracks. Horses don't have that kind of impact on the ground and they are a lot quieter. You can't compare horses to 4 wheelers. I hate it when I hike up on a ridge to get a good vantage point for glassing and all I can see is 4 wheeler tracks over the ridge and all over below me. I just don't see how anyone has luck hunting like that because the game can here that a mile off. I've never felt like a guy on horse back shouldn't be there, sure I'm a little envious because I'm beat from hiking but if I could afford a place to keep a horse I would have one.
Just my view. :)
-Whit
 
It appears that we have a good class of hunters on this site.

Ive read the forums on ATVs on Bowsite.com, they are typically mostly in favor of ATVs.

Wierd that a bowsite would attract more quad riders and less hikers, but i suppose thats because most roads and trails are open to motorized use during bow season and then closed during rifle these days. Brings out more slobs during the bow season i think.
 
as long as they are kept on roads i have no problem with them what so ever. they are a tool just like a lot of other pieces of hunting equipment but they need to be used properly and responsibly.
 
I was up in 6a elk hunting. I am a avid hunter and quad rider. However THEY DON"T MIX. I took my quad for emergency use only in case of a break down or what not. I started my quad on thursday. After that it sat locked up at camp and did not move. I had a good spot with major opportunities totally screwed up due to JERKOFFS racing on the roads with quads sport quads at that. I am starting to believe these animal rights people not only pick up regs to see how they can screw hunting up but I think they put in for big game and waste the tag or go up and make as much noise as they can. Why else would people pick opening weekend to have a party in the pines and bring buddies and quads. Go to the cinders or the dunes where real people ride or stay home and jerk yourself.
Jason
 
In some areas its legal to take a motorized vehicle to retrieve downed game. I don't know the particular details of the Montana incident, but if the regs allow me to take my atv offroad to retrieve a downed animal, you bet I'll do it. Sure beats packing it out on my back and in multiple trips. This year I rode past a guy sitting a tree stand over a water hole. I was on my way to an area I had previously scouted. It was about 5 pm and figured I had plenty of time to for the hunt a particular drainge that evening. As I rode by, the guy stands up and shrugs his shoulders as if to ask what I was doing there. I'm sure he's telling someone how I ruined his hunt. Hell he may be one of you guys. The way I see it though.....he was the idiot for sitting a water hole 20 yards from the dirt road. Had he scouted the area, he would have known the water hole was dry two days prior and the elk were watering about two or three miles away. I parked my atv not a quarter mile away and was into elk within a half hour hike from where I parked. I am sure this guy heard the bulls going crazy on the ridge I was on cause the next morning he and his guide were up there. I don't know how some people can blame ATVs or other motorized vehicles for blowing a hunt if they are hunting in areas where they are allowed. If the road is open to motorized traffic....you should expect vehicles to drive by at anytime. The vehicle is not to blame....you are for not planning accordingly.
-Raptor
 
Our Elk camp had 3 ATVs this year. No one in camp tagged out. The ATVs never left camp. We were able to comfortably hunt in the warm / hot weather knowing we had the ATVs ready and able to get the meat out.
Put me down for "No for hunting" "Yes for packing out game"
 
I agree with Raptor. If you are stalking elk near a road, you should expect traffic. I think most diesel engines make more noise than any quad, especially with a bed full of loose hunting equipment. Don't get me wrong, I drive a diesel and love my quad, but I don't complain about a missed opportunity due to vehicle traffic. I think it's all part of hunting. In areas with a bunch of roads, I let the 'road hunters' push the game to me.

Also, the forest doesn't belong to just the hunters, it belongs to EVERYBODY. I've seen some shady characters in the forest and ask why anybody would camp in a dry campsite just for the hell of it, but it's their right. We should be thankful for so much public land in the west, it's not like that everywhere. Many states are consumed by private property and opportunities to hunt are limited by who you know. . . . . .
 
I bring my quad on most hunting trips. most of the time it stays in camp. There are a lot of old logging roads in Washington that have brush and trees that will scratch your truck up if you drive on them with a full size truck. A quad works good on these roads. Most of the roads go to a dead end and that is were you can stop and hike in and hunt the draws and canyons. Quads are a lot easyer to turn around on a small dead end road. They do come in handy for the packing a animal back to base camp. Or if your truck breaks down you can ride back to the main road for some help.

If you use them right and follow the rules they are a good hunting tool. I have seen crazy kids in a VW bug messing around on closed roads during hunting season. So it's a big problem all around.
 
GUNRODDBOW, This would be very hard to take..Waiting all year for that nonsence ? I cant imagine what you felt like..Guess you have to be there.. Its hard to beleive there aren't more holes shot in ATV's, and those anoying PWC noisy water toys...
The horse thing is mostly envy. A working guy cant have everything. I didn't mean to imply horses are anoying as wheelers, I think we'd all like the Ritzy trip on a horse, as long as we're not imposing on other hunters..we'v rented them.
So whats going to happen in busy area's ? Do we need more regulations to create a "WALKING ONLY TIME SLOTS" so the hunt we wait for for years isn't wrecked in a minute by an inconsiderate A-HOLE... Some guys are selfish, and wont care about others, and will have to be delt with, in order to look forward to the next hunt.
 
You are totally right. To retrieve game or to get to particular hunting sight is great. A camp full of banshees and piped four strokes is another subject. If these people were avid riders they would wait and go to the dunes with the bad boys or ride in the desert...elk season? drag racing at 6:00 am RIDICULOUS.
 
Raptor, others,

I'm no edge of the road hunter, and I do use a quad to move a long distance or retrieve game if I don't want to tear up my pickup.

What they call roads in this area is more like driving over bowling balls and ice chests. The elk don't care if there is a road, as long as nobody is driving on it.

My only point is, if your going to use them, don't use them within an hour before or at least 2 hours after daylight out of respect for others. These guys had no idea there were elk there, or that they had hosed us.

We actually had very close call ins on both mornings within 30 minutes of the quad interuptions. A small 5 and a 4. The chance at the herd bull we had sat in the dark with, was blown.

I take responsibility for my own hunt success/failure. That's why I use my horses in Oregon.
 
This issue will never die. I'm not in favor of limiting ride times or imposing more restrictions on ATV users. I missed a chance at an enormous bull in 7M last weekend due to truck traffic, but such is life. If I were really that bent out of shape about it I would choose to hunt in limited access areas only.

The federal/state governments have a tough job trying to please the hunters, campers, fisherman, hikers, bikers, etc. I ride my quad on ALL hunting trips since it is much faster and enables a better view of my surroundings. I always cut the engine to let horses pass and don't leave the road until I've killed something. Limiting riding times is silly, what if you have to change locations? Maybe I'm biased since I love my quad, but I don't see what the big deal is. I still believe that if you encounter another person while hunting in AZ, it's your own fault. Even in a unit as small as 7M, there's still pleanty of space to get away.
 
Last year in Colorado my hunting partner and I hunted and climbed up hill for nearly an 1-1/2 hours, through thick brush and rocks, trying to get to a spot just below the upper ridge...as I approached the top a quad with 2 hunters sped by about 30' ahead of me running the ridge. It was my fault for not knowing there were quad trails in that area and no fault of theirs for using them. I wished I'd had a quad to get me up there where I could park it and then hunt on from that point. I have also asked for and received help from quad-guys when I wanted help in hauling out an animal. They have there place and uses, especially when a hunter is older and can't get around well, but all users need to follow the rules, then we all get along. If I choose to hunt in quad-use country I can't have complaints as long as the quad-users abide by the laws.
 
Where I hunt in Utah the Uinta National Forest, they just made a rule this year to outlaw using an ATV to retrive game. You must stay on ATV trails. Hunting off of an ATV is the worst thing you can do, sure you get lucky sometimes and see animals, but its not hunting. I use an ATV and it is a lifesave. But it gets me to the trailhead and then sits all day. I have used it to retrive animals but only when it was close to a road and I didn't have to tear it up to get in.
 
WELL LETS SEE

DO YOU WANT THE TRUTH OR DO YOU WANT ME TO BE NICE???

OPENING DAY OF MUZZLE LOADER DEER,I SEEN 10 TIMES MORE ATV'S IN A FLAT ASS CLOSED AREA THAN I SEEN DEER!!!

THESE A$$HOLES ARE POUNDING TRAILS IN FURTHER BY THE YEAR!!!

IF I'D OF BEEN A RANGER TODAY,I'D PROBABLY HAVE AT LEAST 40 MORE PEOPLE HATING MY GUTS,BUT I'VE HAD IT WITH THE BULLSHIT,YOU JUST CAN'T GET AWAY FROM THEM!!!

THE ONLY bobcat GRITTING HIS TEETH!!!
 
every where i have ever been hunting in AZ, which is where i live, i have never heard of it being legal to take a quad off of a trail. It always says stay on roads or trail, and not go offroad. It may be legal to take them off road, burt i wouldnt i walk most of the places i hunt even if i use a quad i go to a road end or pull of the side and walk out from there, It is kinda unethical i think to take a quad offroad and destroy alot of habitat, quads do cause alot off ground damage period. I posted about my brother harvesting his elk and he was aboput 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile from any road and guess what it got drug using a harness that goes on like a back pack and some rope. Everybody on here try's to proclaim that they are the perfect hunter and walk all this way. For one nobody is perfect and if you are backpacking in you better plan on one heck of a hike out if you bag somthing but that is the way it should be, and not driving a quad through a beautiful forest. Maybe i make sense maybe i dont oh well.

P.S. i think there is a fine per ever square foot of ground you tear up when off a trail.
 
Go to the az game and fish website and download rules and regs and read them good. cross country travel is prohibited, and only huinters retrieving downed game may take them cross country so if you are a hunter retrieving game you can other wise it is illegal
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-03 AT 01:21PM (MST)[p]If you see a Quad and its parked and the owner is not around, And you are POSITIVE its not supposed to be there fill the gas tank with a hand full of dirt, slash the tires. Really, he had it coming and the Fuggers that drive them where they are not supposed to be need this to wake them up. Time to fight back and take a little payback for the time you busted ass to hike in just to have a quad roll by with the lazy bastard waving. Think about it, whats he gonna do? call the warden? LOL
 
YA,I'LL WAVE BACK

I STILL DO FREE TUNEUPS ON THE PRIMITIVE AND IN CLOSED AREA'S!!!

SOME WON'T LIKE IT BUT I HOPE THEY BAN A.T.V.'S OFF THE FOREST!!!

TOO BAD A FEW RUIN IT FOR ALL!!!

WHERES A WARDEN WHEN YOU NEED ONE???

THE ONLY bobcat KNOWING WHAT A 600 GRAIN SLUG WILL DO FOR A PISTON!!!
 
I'm with you guys, freakin' 4 wheelers tick me off. Last week I found a good spot with elk in a dried up creek bottom just ran out of light before I could get close enough, go back this week and there are 4 wheeler tracks everywhere in the bottom along the elk trails, no elk, hadn't been there since the 4 wheeler. What I bunch of crap. How can you expect to get something especially bow hunting doing that?? Here in Idaho they have outlawed using there off roads but only in some areas that have travel ristrictions on them, they need to do it in all areas. People these days are so lazy!! I thought that was most the fun of hunting is hiking in somewhere and getting away from the noise. How can you enjoy the outdoors tearing around on an atv?
Some one also said something about anti's using tags so we can't get them. In Idaho you pay 6.50 to put in and then go buy the tag if you draw. They had a prob with anti's putting in the 6.50 to draw and then never buying the tag but tying it up so someone else couldn't so they made it so you have to buy the tag buy agust 20th and if the tag isn't bought it goes up for sale which I think is a good thing. Ticks me off that anti's are so worried about other people's lifestyle, get a life and worry about yourself. Anyways just a little of my opinion on things.
-Whit
 
We just returned from Wyo. a hard area to walk, but did it 4 days, saw 4 wheelers going further in, so took mine off the truck too..Thought it would just help the 3/4 ton ride better..
I have to say, if there is ROOM, use em, like this area, you cant walk in that many miles, so we rode & stash the rig at a trail head.. ALL the wheeler riders, and only saw 6 in a week, were very helpfull to new guys , and became freinds with a couple and will return to see them..
When we are squeezed, its a bad feeling, on foot wheeler or horse, some people dont care. May you all find a place to hunt the way you like, find-em when its thin is tuff..

May the crosshairs of good luck be on your forehead, If you mess with my truck, wheeler, or floatplane in the outback ...
 
Flyer, New York plates and a Quad during hunting season will get you all the action you dont want here in montana.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-14-03 AT 02:08PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-14-03 AT 02:02?PM (MST)

rockydog, Its Albany Mn. not N.Y. why would it matter ?
There are considerate hunters everywhere, and selfish loosers too
The best days I can remember hunting were because of the people I was lucky enoph to be with and meet. Iv hunted muleys in Mont. and as an outsider, was treated the best, given the run of a ranch to hunt By the Idland Bros. in E. Mont. they asked we stay on trails, so we walked from the truck..Never took the wheeler off in 3 years..but "one" 1/4 mile up hill drag at the truck. It just made the ride better..
When I'm new to an area, I'm glassing for hunters too, so I dont interupt there day. Its a rare treat to find room to use a quad to access remote area's you cant get to on foot..and see no-one else.. It would be a better place if we all experienced it..
There were 3 guys from the detroit area camping & hunting the same area in Wyo. We were all on foot, could here them 1/2 mile away talking..The wheelers we saw twice a day were gone in 30 seconds.lasting effects by both groups , but how long ? the wheelers may push something back, the talkers can crew it up for hours, takes too long to get away from each other...
Back in the old roman days, I guess the HIGH POWER buerocrats in charge saved the very best hunting places for an ELETE GROUP of insiders to visit and enjoy, restricting ALL OTHERS access..
we have the same thig today.. "THE PARK SERVICE"
Is there a place we can contribute to the ANTI-PARK system ?
sorry to be so long winded
 
i dont think you damage 4 wheelers in places where they aren't supposed to be. just steal the plug wires and give them to the first law enforcemnt you see, give directions where to find the quad.

sam
 
schmalts said-
"If you see a Quad and its parked and the owner is not around, And you are POSITIVE its not supposed to be there fill the gas tank with a hand full of dirt, slash the tires."

Anyone who attempts to mess with anothers property during huntimg season should be prepared for an armed confrontation. In a lot of cases these ATV's are worth more then the 4-wheel drive trucks thier brought in on. When you start thinking about tampering with someone's $5k to $8k piece of equipment you had better stop and think if it is worth getting shot at or not! If you are truly wanting to do something about a ATV in a closed area, then write down the plate number and turn it over to the State Police or Fish and Game. If there is no plate number then contact the SP or F&G with location and time you saw the ATV.
I have ATV's that we ride and play with on the dunes of the Coast and I do not use one for hunting or even like to see them when I am humning but if I did I would have no problem protecting my investment if someone was foolish enough to attemp to vandilize my personal property regardless of where it was parked. Just my .02 cents
 
Probably because they have no DEFINITE proof of someone being on a trail with their 4 wheeler.
 
Good for you! If more ATVer's had your character, I wouldn't carry such a large chip on my shoulder. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE pass on your ethics to your fellow ATVer's.


Theodore Roosevelt once said, "The nation behaves well if it treats the natural resources as assets which it must turn over to the next generation, INCREASED and NOT IMPAIRED in value."
logo_org_pub.jpg
 
The biggest problem is that none of the laws are the same. On some forests you can use the ATV to retrieve game off a designated trail, but only one machine. Some areas in the uintas you can actually blaze a trail to the downed game. Yet on an adjoining forest it is not allowed. Then the fish and game also have a set of rules for retrieving downed game.

If every national forest, BLM and state forest land all had the same rules governing ATV use then that would alleviate most of the issues because everyone everywhere would all be playing by the same rules.

Until there is some changes to make the governing rules for these areas the same then the problems will continue to exist.

Be courteous, stay on designated roads and trails, and only use the machine to retrieve downed game where allowed.
 
WELL LET'S SEE

IS THE FOREST SERVICE GOING TO WAIT UNTIL AN AREA IS COPLETELY DESTROYED BEFORE THEY CLAMP DOWN ON THE SITUATION???

I CAN SHOW YOU SEVERAL AREA'S RIGHT NOW IN THIS STATE WHERE IT IS TOO LATE,THE DAMAGE HAS BEEN DONE!!!

I HIKED BACK IN THIS YEAR,ABOUT 4 MILES IN I SEE FRESH ATV TRACKS,(flat ass closed area)THE FREE TUNE-UP CAME TO MIND,ANOTHER MILE IN A HUNTER RUNS UP TO ME WITH A PI$$ POOR 'TUDE',WANTS TO KNOW IF THAT IS MY WHEELER,I TELL HIM HELL NO,I GET TALKING TO HIM AND I NO LONGER NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE FREE TUNE-UP,IT'S ALREADY BEEN SERVICED,THE QUIETEST SILENCER YOU COULD EVER WANT HAS ALREADY BEEN INSTALLED FREE OF CHARGE!!!

HOPEFULLY THE ATV OWNER WILL THINK IT OUT A LITTLE BETTER NEXT TIME,THESE ATV PARTS ARE HARD TO COME BY AT 12,000 FEET!!!

WHAT THE HELL GOOD ARE LAWS & REGS. IF THERE IS NOBODY TOO INFORCE THEM???

OH,I GUESS THERE ARE A FEW BEING INFORCED BY PEOPLE WITHOUT BADGES,A CITATION BEATS THESE COSEQUENCES ANYDAY!!!

WAKE THE HELL UP AMERICA,NOT AFTER IT'S TOO LATE!!!

WITHOUT DOUBT,THERE HAS BEEN MORE DAMAGE DONE WITH LAWBREAKING ATV RIDERS THAN ANY OTHER THING I KNOW OF,SOME WON'T LIKE WHAT I'VE SAID,THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT WON'T REALLY LIKE THE FREE TUNE-UPS I GIVE!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING HOW MUCH TOO CHARGE FOR NEW PISTONS AT 12,000 FEET???
 
So breaking the law because someone else does, is ok in your mind,( damaging personal property) I'm guessing next time you just might think about shooting the the guy because he screwed up your hunt by shooting the deer/elk you was after, Some of ya need to read all the posts and think about want you put in them, SOME of ya sound like whacko's. Next some poor kid will screw with someone's ATV at the trailhead, because he thought it was the thing to do because all these good guys on MM said it was the think to do and now he's in trouble or got shot for it, Wake the hell up,and smell the coffee. Take their sparkplug wires and leave them a note tell them they can pick them up at the forest service station. But any thing after that you setting your self up for a rude awaking, you might find your truck at the trailhead with the same problem or worse, Now you all have a nice hunting trip and play fair.
 
HORSES AND FOUR-WHEELERS DON'T MIX! Anyone who rides a four wheeler on a "No Motorized Vehicles" trail deserves whatever they get. Those who do so usually know that they are doing something wrong and will get off the mountain when confronted. Most I've come across respond with something like, "Its not marked" or "I came in from the other side." BS! Trails are marked and ignorance is no excuse. By the way, I have yet to take a ritzy ride on a horse. They are a lot of work, time, and expense both in hunting camp and the rest of the year. Owning horses is a year round investment; hunting season is a couple of weeks.

On the other hand, if your hunt is messed up by someone legally riding an ATV you don't have much to complain about. Unless the user is doing something ethically wrong like running a deer to death with a four-wheeler (seen it).
jim
 
I use atvs, horses and boots to get to where the hunting is. Each has its proper place and limitations. The key is that we dont let it get out of bounds. I like Gator's idea...thats a creative way to help keep things in check. Lets hear some more creative ideas to control improper/illegal use by morally and legally sound methods. Can any of you bitchers come up with some?
 
SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS:

IT'S O.K. TO TAKE YOUR ATV AND BUST A TRAIL INTO THE PRIMITIVE???

I GUESS IT'S O.K. TO TAKE A PLUG WIRE BUT NOT A PISTON???

IT'S O.K. TO BREAK THE LAW A LITTLE BUT NOT ALOT???

NO,I DON'T PLAN ON SHOOTING ANTBODY OVER THE SITUATION!!!

MY TRUCK WILL BE PARKED LEGALLY WHEN YOU FIND IT!!!

I DON'T HAVE TO BABY SIT MY TRUCK AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO BABY SIT YOUR WHEELER IF IT'S TREADING ON LEGAL TURF!!!

YOU GOT THE BALL$ TO GO TO THE FOREST SERVICE TO GET YOUR PLUG WIRE RIGHT AFTER YOU TELL THEM YOU DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE ON THE PRIMITIVE???I HIGHLY DOUBT IT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat DOING FREE TUNE-UPS ON THE PRIMITIVE AND IN CLOSED AREA'S!!!
 
Flyer,

The signs say ?No Motorized Vehicles? the last time I checked my horses were not motorized. Horses don't do a dang thing to rip up the ground and vegetation, what's so bad about a horse? I hike 500 miles a year and have horses, are you just ticked that you walk in and a horse passes you on the trail? I turned in two guys that drover there ATV in a road less area last year, they tried to say that they could retrieve downed game. All the DWR officer did was give them a citation, it took six months before I couldn't see there tracks. If the road is closed or posted stay the heck off those roads, I'm so sick of hunting road less/wilderness areas and seeing ATV?s everywhere. The past two years horsemen and foot soldiers have been chewing the hell out of them, that's helped out. The forest service can't keep up with posting off the new trails and closed roads, the law breakers on the ATV?s are opening them up faster then they can close them down. I think we have more then a major problem! How many 190+ class muleys have you seen from your ATV? You need to get 3 plus miles off a road to see the big boys.
 
I agree with Antlerking. What can be done other than bitching about the situation is to ##### to right people. That includes violators. I'm not advocating confrontation; a pleasant "you're not supposed to ride that thing here" is often just as effective as other means discussed. In Idaho illegal off road use is one of the few things people are consistently cited for. I hasten to add that these vehicles do have thier place. Someone wrote earlier that another hunter was the idiot for putting a tree stand so close to an ATV trail. Good point!
 
NO B-cat I'm just saying IF you are going to put your hands on another persons property, that is the way to go, Me I don't think my head would look good with crosshairs centered on it. I know that if you go to FS and tell them about a ATV that is off in the boonies where they aren't allowed, they don't send anyone up the mountain to try and catch the guys( This has happened 3 times), so until they start policing the ground they are suppose too, this will be a on going problem, NEED to have SFW or some-one with some push get a law into affect, with huge fines or lost of ATV, just think if the FS got 25-30 new ATV a year(due to guys using them out-bounds) how much they could sell them for to help hire new officers.Maybe this should be done by F&G than they could get more people (Game wardens), I use ATV's to go to the trailhead, then walk from there,It still amaze's me when people ask have you seen any bucks and all they have done was ride there ATV all day,I always point them toward those 2-pts we drove by go up to the trailhead and hope they get one, because I then know they wouldn't be stomping around up on top with me.
 
My 2 cents!

I own a ATV and did not take it to CO this year as I was hunting in Unit 76. Same old story, had Elk below me, did my range finding and waiting for the bull to give me a good shot. Along comes 2 ATVs on a closed logging road. Busted!! I reported it to the local warden. Big deal! Think the idea of taking the ATVs away from the slobs is a good one.
 
retired2000

DID A FREE TUNE-UP COME TO MIND???

REPORTING THEM???

WHAT A JOKE THAT IS!!!

LET'S REPORT THEM AFTER THE FREE TUNE-UP!!!

THE ONLY bobcat DOING FREE TUNE-UPS IN CLOSED AREA'S AND ON THE PRIMITIVE!!!
 
I don't agree with "free tune-ups." It's one thing to be pissed about reckless use of off road vehicles, it's another to damage a machine that some one worked hard to buy. I work very hard to buy all my possesions, quad included, and I'll be damned if some jack-ass destroys it because I'm in 'his spot.' I grew out of that behavior when I was about 6.

I think there is still confusion about "closed" areas. I have been ticketed for using a truck to recover an elk since I thought it was legal to drive off roads to recover downed game. While the warden was running my license, we talked about exactly where a person could drive. Cross country vehicle travel is permitted for the VAST MAJORITY of AZ. This means that it is legal for a person to drive any damn where they please, road or no road, dead game or not, as long as it's not "closed to motorized traffic." Many times one side of a road will be closed while the other is not. Simply because the area is in a 'National Forest' doesn't mean that off-road vehicle traffic is illegal. I suggest you check the facts before you take the law into your own hands.

For the record, I don't tear ass across virgin ground or hunt 100% off my quad, but I could, it's MY right. As for the forest rangers, give them a break. Taking the law into your own hands only makes their job harder. Some of you need to chill out and be thankful for all the public land we enjoy in the west.
 
ajk

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU THINKING YOU CAN RIDE YOUR ATV ANY DAMN WHERE YOU WANT TO,IF IT'S CLOSED TO MOTORIZED VEHICLES,IT MEANS IT'S CLOSED!!!

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU THINKING YOU CAN RIDE YOUR ATV INTO PRIMITIVE AREA'S TEARING THE HELL OUT OF EVERYBODIES (PUBLIC GROUND)I DIDN'T GROW OUT OF THIS ONE,IT'S ONE THING I DON'T AGREE WITH!!!

FAMOUS FIRST AND LAST WORDS:I THOUGHT IT WAS LEGAL TO TEAR THE HELL OUT OF EVERYTHING!!!

RIDE YOUR ATV INTO THE PRIMITIVE AND THE WARDEN WON'T BE THE GUY YOU'LL NEED TO BE WORRYING ABOUT!!!

YOU MIGHT THINK IT'S YOUR RIGHT TO DESTROY IT FOR EVERYBODY ELSE,BUT I HIGHLY RECOMEND NOT TO LEAVE YOUR ATV PARKED ON THE PRIMITIVE UNATTENDED,THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE THAT WILL GIVE YOU THE BEST TUNE-UP YOU'VE EVER HAD!!!

AS FOR FOREST RANGERS,THEY WILL BE YOUR LAST WORRY!!!

FOR THE RECORD,I GUESS IT'S O.K. FOR YOU TO BREAK THE LAW BUT YOU DON'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE TO BREAK IT!!!

I DON'T AGREE WITH JACKASSES DESTROYING PUBLIC GROUND BECAUSE THEY ARE LAZY AND THINK IT'S THEIR RIGHT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat GUARANTEEING TUNE-UPS IN 'CLOSED TO MOTORIZED VEHICLES' AREA'S AND ON THE PRIMITIVE,GET THE PICTURE???
 
After reading all of these different ideas, I have one. Everone that finds someone that is breaking the law, take a small camera "throw away" one and take pictures and turn them in after a while they will get the message if the wardens have pictures. I did this and you should have seen the look on the hunters faces when they saw a camera. I don't want to walk five miles back into the woods and then a four wheeler come riding by.
 
Being a vigilante isn't the smartest thing to do in my opinion. Where I come from, providing free tune-ups may get you some serious lead poisoning.

The ONLY Raptor I know throwing LEAD at wannabe ATV mechanics.
 
Here?s the fix: ATV riders stay on the roads that are opened and they won't run into vigilantes. What a minute that would never work, the big bucks and bulls are down in the off road areas. 60% of the ATV riders can't walk in there, what's the fun of that? We have to make our own trail and open up a new honey hole on the ATV. How many guys can ride there ATV into a Honey Hole? And I'm not talking about the Honey Hole down in the NO MOTERIZED AREA! If I catch one down off I'll bust them so fast, I should post some photos of 4 guys that I busted 3 years ago. They let into me worst then I did them, pointing there guns at me, covering up there gas tanks and telling me they had as much right to this area as I do. If there lazy ars?s could have walked them into there they did, I own one and they have there place; on maintained roads! It gets worst every year, it's time the BLM in Wyoming and Forest Service in Utah get there acts together.
 
I use one too. I use it on rough roads, because I can go faster to the drop off point. I think they should fine these bad guys at least a thousnd dollars for each violation. The money should go to the field office budget. Then maybe the rangers would be motivated to pop these guys.
 
I was up in the gallatin two years ago sitting a nice park about 3 pm. 10-12 cows and calves walked out and began to feed,we were waiting for a brow tine bull, and then came the roar up the hill I mean as soon as that 4 wheeler was turned on those elk timbered up!! You can keep em! Put em in a garage and leave them until the season is over. And about riding in to retrieve game.... it isn't hunting until you've sweated! Good Hunting Hale
 
TREADING YOUR LAZY NM ASS INTO THE PRIMITIVE WILL ONLY GET YOU IN,YOUR RIDE OUT WON'T BE QUITE AS EASY OR FUN!!!

THE ONLY LEAD POISONING WILL BE LEFT ON WHATS LEFT OF YOUR PISTON!!!

REMEMBER,PISTONS ARE HARD TO COME BY AT 12,000 FEET!!!

OH,I FORGOT TO TELL YOU,YOU USUALLY NEED A NEW CYLINDER ALSO!!!

BEING A VIGILANTE TEARING THE HELL OUT OF PUBLIC GROUND IS DAMN SURE NOT A SMART THING TO DO IN THIS AREA,GO AHEAD AND TRY IT,I'LL GUARANTEE YOU'LL LOSE!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING IF THESE UNETHICAL SO-CALLED HUNTERS CAN RUN THEIR ATV'S ON 600 GRAINS OF LEAD???
 
BOBCAT,

You are correct, if the area is closed to motorized vehicles, it MEANS closed. No ATV's or trucks should be in there. You are also right by saying the warden is the last person I should be worried about. YOU are the reason I carry my pistol everywhere, to defend MY rights if I have to. People like you make enjoying their public lands a hazard. I can see the headlines now, "hunter killed by fellow hunter after an altercation involving an ATV." PETA, have a field day! Fanatic hunters like yourself encourage as much bad press as the anti-hunters.

I agree that ATV's have a time and a place. I ride my ATV only on maintained roads, it's my preferred means of travel. I'm not the guy who rides across the meadow or to the top of the mountain. I was just pointing out the fact that it is a persons right to do so, just like your right to bear arms. The only point I disagree with you on is damaging someones property. Maybe you would see a positive change if you spent more time HELPING the law enforcement and less trying to be Barney Fife.

Hey, no hard feelings, just like to see a little more middle ground. PS, in AZ I haven't seen or even heard of the problems you folks describe. Where are you?
 
ajk

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY!!!

YOU DISAGREE WITH ME DISAGREEING WITH PEOPLE RIDING THEIR ATV'S INTO FLAT ASS CLOSED AREA'S AND DESTROYING PROPERTY,'EVERYBODY'S PROPERTY'!!!

I GUESS PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF DON'T SEE IT AS DESTROYING PROPERTY AS LONG AS YOUR WHEELER IS PROTECTED???

AS A MATTER OF FACT I DO HELP THE LAW ENFORCEMENT,IT'S THE HELP THAT PEOPLE BREAKING THE LAWS WITH THEIR ATV'S AIN'T GONNA LIKE!!!

I GUESS WHAT ALOT OF YOU WITH YOUR ATV'S ARE TRYING SAY IS:YOU THINK IT'S O.K. FOR YOU TO DAMAGE PUBLIC PROPERTY WITH YOUR ATV'S BUT YOU THINK IT'S WRONG FOR SOMEBODY TO DAMAGE YOUR PROPERTY???

WAKE THE HELL UP!!!

THERE ARE PLACES FOR ATV'S BUT THE PRIMITIVE AIN'T ONE OF THEM!!!

THIS IS UTAH,IT AIN'T THE BEST PLACE ON EARTH BUT WHY IN THE HELL WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO COMPLETELY DESTROY IT???

NO HARD FEELINGS HERE,AN EYE FOR AN EYE,A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH,THATS THE WAY I SEE IT I'M A SIMPLE MAN!!!

THE ONLY bobcat NOT GOING TO CHANGE HIS MIND ON THIS,I CONTEND WITH LAW BREAKING BASTARDS EVERY YEAR!!!
 
My $.02:

First of all riding a wheeler in a closed area is illegal and unethical, nobody has yet to dispute that, so quit arguing about it.

Devils Advocate: Lets say you hike about 6-8 miles into a wilderness area, you get there and you see a quad. This guy is obviously breaking the law by being there, everyone knows this. You decide he needs to learn a lesson, so you shoot his quad, put sand in his tank, steal his plugs, whatever - the point is the quad ain't going anywhere. Now lets say this is a late season hunt and pretty cold out, the guy gets back to his wheeler at dark ready to ride out of the illegal area and finds it all busted up. He now has to hike out. Had he know this, he may have wanted to start a few hours earlier. Now lets say the guy gets trapped in the high country for the night and dies. You just played a part in his death, irregardless of what laws he broke during the day.

The responses to this will be something like "got what he deserved"; "one less guy screwing up the wilderness"; "ain't my fault if the guy wasn't prepared for the unexpected"; etc. Don't even try to defend any such actions with one of these, the fact is that this story, while far-fetched could happen and the guy that damages the quad did play a role - one that is much worse than riding a quad in a closed area.

As for me: I got a quad, love the damn thing. Usually gets parked a a trailhead for a morning hike and an evening hike. I'll spend the middle of the day putting around on it pissing most you guys off. It has never been off of an approved road or trail, and never will unless it is a matter of life or death. Downed game is not a good enough reason in my mind. Those of you that seem to think horses do no harm should probably turn around and see the trail you are leaving. Granted in dry conditions horses have little impact on the ground. A shod horse in wet conditions will rip up a trail as fast as any motorized rig.
 
steelie

I'LL SAY IT AGAIN!!!

I WON'T TAKE OR DESTROY HIS SURVIVAL GEAR!!!

THERES ALOT OF WHAT IF'S IN LIFE!!!

SAY THE TUNE-UP DOESN'T HAPPEN,BUT THIS ##### HAS ROAD HIS WHEELER IN 6-8 MILES,HAS PROBLEMS OR WON'T START ETC.HIS STUPIDITY HAS GOT HIM IN A REAL BIND,NOBODY KNOWS WHERE THE HELL HE IS, INCLUDING HIMSELF,WHO YOU GONNA BLAME NOW???

DON'T BREAK THE CLOSED AREA RULES AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE TUNE-UP!!!

WHAT YOU GUY'S MIGHT WANT TO THINK ABOUT IS:SOME OF YOU(NOT ALL OF YOU)THINK IT'S PRETTY FUNNY TO TEAR THE HELL OUT OF PRIMITIVE WITH YOUR BIG BAD GO ANYWHERE ATV'S BUT IF IT KEEPS GOING THE FOREST SERVICE WILL BAN THEM,IT WILL BE TOO LATE BECAUSE THE DAMAGE WILL ALREADY BE DONE,BUT WHO YOU GONNA BLAME WHEN IT HAPPENS???

I RESPECT ATV RIDERS THAT RESPECT THE LAW OF THE LAND,YA,I'VE GOT PROBLEMS WITH THE OTHERS!!!

WAKE THE HELL UP AMERICA!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING:WHEN IT'S COMPLETELY DESTROYED,WILL THEY FINALLY BAN THEM???
 
I can't help but NOT feel sorry for anyone who rides a 4-wheeler in a restricted area and gets their 4-wheeler vandalized and dies because of it. (Refering to a previous post) Unfortunately, it would be a crystal clear message to others that they had better watch where they are traveling on their 4-wheelers. It's too bad that some people have to take the law into their own hands. The next time I catch a 4-wheeler in a restricted area, the fuel line may turn up missing. That would be a cheap fix after the authorities are contacted.
 
steelie,

I had to get in on this. Your right about the dead man. Woops, I mean the man that could be dead. Just kidding. We don't wanna be killin anyone out there. Although, if I was back 6-8 miles and saw an atv sittin there I'd be REAL tempted to do all I could until it risked the hunters life. But If the guy woulda obeyed rules, he woulda been there on foot, and therefore woulda started hikin' out hours earlier and been out on time like us fellas who follow the law. The way I look at it, it would be a dam hard lesson learned... I sure as hell don't wanna kill no one but I sure don't wanna cater to those kinda hunters either cause that's why their still doing what their doin. They haven't had any reason to stop since the law don't maka' difference to em'. Their definetely askin for it!!!! Or they just don't have a brain. One or the other.
As for the horses (no offense) but come on man. If horses are damaging the ground than so are the elk heards when they run away from your four wheeler wizzin by on the road. Then we would have to say five hikers equals a horse and it would get silly. It's an issue in today's society with all the people that use the public land now but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. I say natural animals (ex:humans/horses/elk/chickens/bears/rodents) are ok in the natural world. Horses ok. ATVs, they ARE a blast to ride, but,..... I'd betta stop there. We all know off road/trail atv riders don't ever peel out and let the power of the engine get to there head, right? I ain't arguing with you at all, just my had to put in MY 2 cents. Take er' easy, but Hunt hard!

Huntsalone (cause I haven't been able to find anyone else who wants ta hunt hard!)
 
OK, hang with me, this one is a little long.
This is one subject that will never die. I've quitely read all the posts and agree that atvs don't belong in the primitive areas and anyone doing so should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
But, I think alot of people have forgotten that the problem mainly lies with the people that should be enforcing the law and not so much with the atv'ers.
Example: the speed limit on our highways is posted... same as no vehicle traffic allowed in wilderness area signs..right?
How many of you speed on the highways? even though the speed limit is posted? Your breaking the law because you can get away with it, same as the atv'er that rode into that wilderness area. But in most peoples mind that's ok.
How do you get people that travel a certain section of road to slow down or obey the speed limit? Complain loud enough and long enough until the local law enforcement agency starts enforceing the speed limit.
OK, now, how do you get the atv'ers to stop tracking into roadless areas? Complain loud enough and long enough to the right enforcement agency until they do something about it. Some of you will say that speeding is a poor example, but it is on the same principle of people breaking the law because they can get away with it...that is until they get caught.
If you say speeding is ok...but riding your machine into MY hunting area is not....then in my opinion your a hypocrit. You can't complain about someone breaking the law on one hand, then on the other accept that someone else or yourself breaking the law in a different way(speeding as an example) is ok.
I know i will offend some people with this reply, but i really think the main problem lies with the lack of enforcement. There are several people that have replyed that have said " I told the forest service (or whoever) but nothing happened" Maybe you need to take it to the next level...and by that i don't mean the next level is taking law into your own hands, but the next agency and bring the hammer down on the people that should be enforceing the law but are not.
I agree that someday most if not all areas will be restricted to travel on the road only, it's already happening and will continue.
Taking the law into your own hands will only get someone hurt or worse yet killed. Do you REALLY want to be the guy that knows you had a hand in someone dieing just because you felt you were justified in doing a "backwoods tuneup"? I don't think that any court in the land would think you did the right thing, and you just might find yourself up on involentary manslaughter charges.
Would you be able to face that mans wife and children, look them in the eye and tell them that you are the one that "Tuned up his 4-wheeler" and that you feel he deserved it? If you don't have enough balls to face them at the funeral, then why would you think your "Man enough" to "fix" him in the woods. BOBCAT...you talk a mean story but I don't think even you have enough "cajones" to go to that man's funeral.
Just my .02
 
nvhunter

I GUESS ALL OF YOU THAT DISAGREE WITH ME ARE GOING TO PUT ME ON A MANSLAUGHTER TRIAL???

FUNNY HOW THE TRUTH PI$$ES ATV LAWBREAKERS OFF SO QUICKLY!!!

ARE YOU GONNA THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE A LITTLE BIT OR YOU GONNA WORRY ABOUT A POSSIBLE TUNE-UP???

I GUESS YOU THINK THAT THE LOWLIFES THAT BREAK THE LAWS CAN'T EVEN POSSIBLY SURVIVE,IF THEY CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT THEIR ATV'S,THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN THE PRIMITIVE ON THEM!!!

GET THE PICTURE???

I DON'T KNOW OF ANYBODY DIEING FROM A TUNE-UP,AND I'VE NEVER MENTIONED WANTING IT TO HAPPEN!!!

FIND A BETTER EXCUSE THAN THAT!!!

I GUESS WHERE YOU HUNT HASN'T BEEN DESTROYED YET,YOU'LL GET YOUR TURN,IT'S A MATTER OF TIME!!!

SHOW ME SOME LAW ENFORCEMENT WITH ENOUGH AMBITION TO CATCH ANY OF THESE IDIOT'S!!!

OH,I FORGOT,YOU THINK IT'S YOUR RIGHT TO KNOWINGLY BREAK EVERY LAW WITH YOUR ATV JUST TO SATISFY YOURSELF!!!

THE ONLY bobcat OFFERING FREE TUNE-UPS!!!(NO FUNERALS IN MIND)
 
1) Never said i disagree with you

2) Never said anything about YOU and manslaughter charges, just a real possibility if SOMEONE were to do something to a persons atv and something of that nature happened because of it.

3) Never said that a person has to have a running atv to survive. Just another possibility that a person miles into wilderness could not make it out. Like i said...IF something were to happen because someone "tunedup" his rig that i don't think a court or jury would be simpathetic to the person doing the "tuning".

4) No, where i live has not been destroyed yet, but there is damage, also stated that future areas will be closed because of them.

5)Law enforcement with no ambition is excatly what i was trying to get across. Put more pressure on them. SOME atv'ers will ALWAYS do what they can get away with...same as someone who drinks and drives...until the consequences are great enough that it effects them.

6) NEVER said a word about it being MY right to knowingly break ANY law to satisfy MYSELF...infact i never said anything about me breaking ANY laws on my atv. I did state that i DO NOT agree with atv's being in the primitive at all. I for one have not taken my atv into any closed areas. In fact this year where i hunted was a closed road area, my atv never left the truck bed.

7) Anything else?

8) The post was not aimed at you personally, you are just the one who thinks he can do damage to anyone that comes into your sacred little world without thinking about anyone else. I just think there are different ways to go about getting the law enforced without damaging a persons property or possibly endangering someones life. I think someone else replyed that you should take pics., write down plate #'s, model #'s etc. then approach law enforcement with all the info needed to get them prosacuted, leave them a note etc. find out where they are camped, parked etc. If you want to approach them and let them know that they are breaking the law and that they will be turned in, i think that is one way to get the word out and people will get the word that they can not get away with it. I would bet that if that atv'er happened to walk out and see you putting a slug in the engine that you could find yourself in an armed confrontation with that person. Maybe it would be him attending your funeral.
 
THERE ARE OTHERS THINKING THE SAME AS ME,THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME AND MOST(NOT ALL)IS I'M STRAIGHT TO POINT AND TRUTH!!!

LETS SEE???

THE ATVer BREAKS THE LAW BY RIDING IN ON THE PRIMITIVE,I GUESS YOU DON'T THINK THIS IS DESTROYING SOMEBODY ELSES PROPERTY???

SO,ME OR SOMEBODY MIGHT DO A TUNE-UP,(BREAKS THE LAW)BECAUSE SOMEBODY ELSE BROKE THE LAW,(TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE ONE RIGHT)I GUESS WE SHOULD JUST WAIT TILL SOME AUTHORITY SHOWS UP???(GOOD LUCK ON THIS ONE)

SO NOW,THE ATVer KNOWINGLY BROKE THE LAW,THEN THE MECHANIC BROKE THE LAW WITH THE TUNE-UP,THE ATVer IS PISSED AND BREAKS THE LAW AGAIN,O.K. BY YOU AS LONG AS bobcat IS GETTING THE BULLET,SURE PISSES YOU OFF WHEN THE BULLET MIGHT BE COMING FROM THE OTHER DIRECTION!!!

GLAD TO HEAR YOU NEVER BREAK THE RULES WITH YOUR ATV!!!

I EXPECT THE FOREST SERVICE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROBLEM WHEN IT'S TOO LATE!!!(JUST LIKE EVERY TIME)

LET'S SAY YOU'VE GOT A PROBLEM WITH SOMEBODY ON AN ATV,HE KEEP'S RIDING AND TEARING THE HELL OUT OF YOUR PROPERTY(REMEMBER,PRIMITIVE IS YOUR PROPERTY TOO)YOU'VE WARNED HIM SEVERAL TIMES,YOU'VE CALLED LAW ENFORCEMENT 50-60 TIMES,BUT NO CITATIONS ISSUED,THE RIDER JUST KEEPS TEARING THE HELL OUT OF YOUR PROPERTY,I GUESS AFTER A FASHION YOUR JUST GONNA SIT BACK AND SAY TO HELL WITH IT,LET HIM DO AS HE PLEASES,YOUR NOT GOING TO CONFRONT HIM BECAUSE IT MIGHT CAUSE HIM TO HAVE A HEART ATTACK,(YOU KNOW,ENDANGER HIS LIFE)PRETTY SOON YOUR PROPERTY AIN'T WORTH 'JACK',BUT AT LEAST NOBODY GOT HURT!!!

WHEN YOU TREAD LEGALLY,YOU'LL HAVE NO FEAR OF A TUNE-UP!!!

NO,YOU DIDN'T SAY IT WAS 'YOUR RIGHT'BUT SEVERAL HAVE!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THINKING:AS LONG AS IT'S MY FUNERAL I GUESS EVERYBODY'S HAPPY!!!
 
Let me try this again.
Your reading my posts in anger and they are not written that way. I agree with what you are saying, right up until you start plugging holes in engines. I'm trying to play the devils advocate and say that maybe there is a better way to get the action done without tearing up someones machine and..(read slow) POSSIBLY causing something worse then that to happen.

1)Never said it was right to ride in road closed areas, actually said i disagree with it.

2) I seem to have suggested that maybe you take your info to the enforcement agency, sounds like you already have numerous times with no response. Sounds like your agency is a major problem. That was my point to the post in the first place.

3)Never said that everything is ok as long as YOU get the bullet, don't want to see ANYBODY get a bullet. did say that a confrontation like that is a real possibility.

4) I do agree with your statement "tread lightly and you have nothing to worry about"

If you've taken your complaint to Forest Service 50-60 times i would think that there would be enough written proof that you could push the issue with a higher agency. It sounds like the agency is a major problem in your area because of lack of enforcement, your not the first that i have heard complain of this. That was and is my whole point. A major part of the problem lies with agencys that do not or will not enforce the law. No doubt that the other part of the problem is law breaking atv'ers. It just really bothers me when someone lumps EVERY atv rider in with the ones that break the law. That is not the case but alot of people are quick to jump in and say that anyone that rides an atv is a law breaker and should all be hung out to dry. It sounds like some areas have a major problem, that's just not the case where i live, but no doubt it will in the future, more people = more damage.
Keep in mind that the Forest Service(or whoever) is probably strapped for cash and manpower, and that will be thier main excuse. I also believe that some of those guys(not saying all) just don't want to deal with the problem. That's where and when maybe it needs to go to the next level above them.
My whole point is, I think there are major problems not only with law breakers, but with the agency involved.
My replys are not aimed at you personally, just trying to point out that just cause someone plugs someone elses atv, or puts dirt in thier gas, or whatever, will not stop any other persons(at least not in any noticeable numbers) to stop doing what they are doing already.
Take what i have written lightly, it's written that way.
 
nvhunter

I RESPECT HUNTER'S AND ATV RIDERS THAT RESPECT THE LAW OF THE LAND!!!

JUST HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING PEOPLE DON'T CARE ANYMORE OR LOOK INTO THE FUTURE!!!

SOUNDS LIKE THINGS ARE A LITTLE BETTER OUT YOUR WAY!!!

I REMEMBER WHAT IT USED TO BE LIKE(YA,THERES MORE FACTORS THAN JUST ATV'S)AND NOW I SEE HOW IT IS TODAY,AND HELL YA,ATV RIDER'S WITH NO RESPECT HAVE COST US ALL!!!

I WONDER WHEN IT'S TOO LATE IF THEY WILL CLAMP DOWN???

THE ONLY AGGITATED bobcat THINKING IT'S ABOUT DAMN TIME SOMETHINGS DONE ABOUT THE SITUATION!!!
 
Thank you for finally seeing my point (i think) I agree that atv'ers with no respect have cost us..dearly, and the really bad thing is that it will probably only get worse and it does cost each of us. I seriously doubt that my children will have even the benifits that we have today..sometimes as small as they are. Sad thought. It will take a HUGE effort by sportsman to get law enforcement to change and make it right, probably what will happen is we will just lose what little we have now.
For all you out there that use an atv in a manner which you know it should not be used....think about it before it's too late...it may already be too late now.
 
Bobcat -

your too quick to judge, you have grouped everybody that does not agree with your methods as a pissed-offed ATV law-breaker. I took my ATV a couple miles through town today to get to the carwash, had it on the public roads - first time I have broken any law on it. So don't be so quick to lump us all together. I am glad you are passionate about conservation, but vigilante justice is not the answer. To be honest with you, and this may hurt - based on your posts(granted I don't know you, only the internet persona you put forth), it scares the hell out of me to have someone like you in the field interpreting the FS travel map and wilderness boundaries and acting (see vigilante justice) on what you think is the correct interpretation. That is why we have FS field officers. If you don't think they are cutting the mustard, that is where you should put your efforts.

I had a funny situation happen this past friday, I was on the ATV, on a approved trail, I ran into (not literally) a couple hunters on foot. One guy is really pissed off, giving me the business about "keeping that G#$ D$%^ thing where it should be". I offered to show him the travel map, to show him how in fact I was completely legal. He didn't want any of that, just kept walking down the trail. To be honest for a minute I thought about asking the guy if he went by "bobcat". :) Kind of ironic to have this situation happen to me while this thread is going on, but it proves my point - this guy had no idea of what is legal and what is not. Only wanted to go by what he felt SHOULD be legal. Long story short - I ended up going to a different area, I didn't want this guy doing an unjustitfied "tune-up", forcing me to shoot him......

The guy in question just might be a MM regular - fueled by this and other topics like it into a false sense of heroic ability - so if you are reading this, you can kiss my ass.
 
steelie

I CAN TELL WITH YOUR ATTITUDE YOU ARE ONE OF THESE LOWLIFES RIDING YOUR ATV ANYWHERE YOU WANT TO WITH(YOU CAN KISS MY A$$)IN MIND!!!

YOU'LL FIND ONLY ONE bobcat,BUT SEVERAL OTHERS OUT THERE THAT ALSO KNOW WHAT A GOOD TUNE-UP IS!!!

WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYBODY WITH ANY COMMON SENSE RIDE UP THROUGH WHERE SOMEBODY WITH SENSE IS TRYING TO HUNT???

WAS THIS A LEGAL TRAIL OR A TRAIL LAZY A$$HOLES ON THEIR ATV'S HAVE POUDED IN???

WAKE THE HELL UP,YOU'VE ALREADY TOLD US YOU DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH RIDING YOUR ATV WHERE IT'S CLOSED,JUST ANOTHER ATV RIDER TRYING TO STIR IT UP!!!

I KNOW THE BOUDARIES IN THE AREA,TREAD INTO THE PRIMITIVE HERE ON YOUR ATV'S AND YOU'LL FIND SEVERAL PEOPLE YOU'LL THINK IS bobcat,THE PROBLEM YOU'LL HAVE YOU'LL BE WONDERING WHICH bobcat GAVE YOU THE FREE TUNE-UP!!!

IF YOU READ THIS YOU MIGHT THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE YOU BUST YOUR LOWLIFE ASS INTO THE PRIMITIVE ON YOUR ATV,IF YOU KNEW HOW MANY bobcats WERE OUT THERE YOU MIGHT PAY CLOSE ATTENTION WHERE YOU PARK YOUR BIG FANCY ATV!!!

REMEMBER:pISTONS ARE HARD TO COME BY AT 12,000 FEET!!!

KEEP YOUR ATV ON LEGAL TURF AND YOU WON'T NEED TO WORRY!!!

BUST IT INTO THE PRIMITIVE AND ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS YOU BETTER WORRY!!!

I'M GONNA TELL YOU LIKE YOU TOLD ME,IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN KISS MY ASS!!!

THE ONLY bobcat,(OR IS IT???)DOING FREE TUNE-UPS ON THE PRIMITIVE!!!
 
Bobcat,

I think you and I agree for the most part. I'm sorry that Utah is in such a bind. I tip my hat to the FS and Game and Fish in Arizona, as they are doing an excellent job. I haven't seen the type of problems you speak about. But, here's something to ruffle your feathers:

After you give your tune-up, lazy hunter walks out and phones his friend. Friend arrives with another ATV that they use to recover the one with a glazed piston or bullet holes. Just because it won't start doesn't mean it wont roll. Now the damage has been doubled. If Utah law enforcement officers are as lazy as you say they are, do you think the ATVers will be caught?

A local Indian tribe has a policy on thier rez that works wonders here in AZ. If you are caught on an unmarked trail, they confiscate (spelling?) your gun or bow. Most hunters can replace the parts on their quad, but losing your favorite gun (perhaps a family treasure) is unthinkable.

I support heavy fines and even enforcement. Thanks again to the Arizona G&F, as they are doing a great job!
 
ive read all the views on this but my opinon is we pay the fish cops plenty to do there job so let them do it.
taking the law in your own hands is not the cure
it will just piss everone off ,then everone will be looking over there backs to make sure there stuff isnt getting harmed insted of hunting

yes i do ride my wheeler up the roads were legal and i hunt off of it thats just my own opinon




P.S some one to patch up a bullet hole at 12000ft are hard to find
 
Steelie You had the perfect bait and you didn't reel him in.ON a Legal trail and some-a$$hole is telling you if you don't live his way it wrong, That might be the cause of things go from bad to worse. I understand where Ole bobcat is coming from,I just think his way is a little far fetched. But I respected his right to act , just as he will respect mine way to react.
 
I just found this site, and registered. great site. I feel compelled to add my two cents worth. First, I am surprized that so many ATV users are saying they don't hunt from them or go off the roads and trails with them, claiming they use them to acces trails, etc. I must only see the bad ones out here. I don't recall ever seeing or running into one following the rules (LAWS) in this case. As far as retrieving downed game... I've even seen these idiots cutting their way in with chainsaws. Cutting live trees, down timber and oh yes, tearing the heck out of the place.You can't tell me that once they do that they don't come back next year and ride to the end of the trail, that they cut the year before. Secondly, I'm glad to hear there are many out there that at least feel the same way as most ethical hunters do about ATV use. I've got a little more respect for them after reading this thread. I am a horseman and usually hunt far from any roads, so when I hear an ATV I know they are outlaws. If I catch one in those roadless areas I report it. Unfortunately, our game officers are spread pretty thin and nothing usually comes of it. Maybe they should issue "Roadless area ATV" tags so ethical fairchase hunters can start thinning them out!
 
bobcat -

Is it a reading problem, or comprehension problem?

"I CAN TELL WITH YOUR ATTITUDE YOU ARE ONE OF THESE LOWLIFES RIDING YOUR ATV ANYWHERE YOU WANT TO WITH(YOU CAN KISS MY A$$)IN MIND!!!"

re-read my post

"WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYBODY WITH ANY COMMON SENSE RIDE UP THROUGH WHERE SOMEBODY WITH SENSE IS TRYING TO HUNT???"

well, it just so happens, as I stated that this was a ATV trail. why in the hell would anybody with any common sense be hunting on the road???

"WAS THIS A LEGAL TRAIL OR A TRAIL LAZY A$$HOLES ON THEIR ATV'S HAVE POUDED IN???"

re-read my post

"WAKE THE HELL UP,YOU'VE ALREADY TOLD US YOU DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH RIDING YOUR ATV WHERE IT'S CLOSED,JUST ANOTHER ATV RIDER TRYING TO STIR IT UP!!!"

this is the part of your problem bobcat, your delusional. NEVER did I say "I didn't have a problem with ridiing my ATV where it's closed". re-read my posts - all of them, seek help if you need it

"I'M GONNA TELL YOU LIKE YOU TOLD ME,IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN KISS MY ASS!!!"

re-read my post, I did not tell YOU to "kiss my ass"











and for God's sake - QUIT YELLING!!!!!!!1
 
O.K. steelie

I THINK YOU FINALLY HIT IT,'COMPREHENTION PROBLEM'YA THATS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO POUND INTO THICK SCULLS FOR SOME TIME,I GUESS ALOT OF THEM DON'T CARE OR COMPREHEND!!!

I REREAD YOUR POST!!!

I SAID IT A MIILION TIMES,I'LL SAY IT ONCE MORE,I RESPECT ATV RIDERS THAT RESPECT THE LAW OF THE LAND,I'VE GOT ISSUES WITH THE REST!!!

I REREAD YOUR POST!!!

I TOO AM TIRED OF SEEING ILLEAGAL TRAILS BEING BLAZED IN FURTHER BY THE YEAR IN FLAT ASS CLOSED AREA'S!!!

I REREAD YOUR POST!!!

IF YOUR GONNA WAIT UNTIL THE LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THIS AREA DOES SOMETHING,YOUR WAITING TOO LONG,I'VE SEEN IT DESTROYED BECAUSE THE F.S. CLAIMS THEY JUST CAN'T CATCH EM!!!

AT THIS TIME I AM DELUSIONAL,I'M DEFINATELY GONNA SEEK HELP FROM IDhornhound,HE JUST MIGHT BE THE NEXT bobcat ON THE MOUNTAIN!!!

YOU HAVEN'T HEARD ME YELL YET,I'VE BEEN QUITE MELLOW SO FAR!!!

I REREAD YOUR POST!!!

NO,YOU DIDN'T TELL ME TO KISS YOUR REAR,I THINK YOU TOLD ANOTHER bobcat TO KISS YOUR REAR!!!

WHEN THE PRIMITIVE IS COMPLETELY DESTROYED,WHO ARE THEY GONNA BLAME???

THE ONLY bobcat WAY BEYOND SEEKING HELP!!!
 
Horses have been around the US since the 1700's when they were bought up through Mexico. So I suppose they have been around awhile.
 
Personally I don't like ATV's. They are a cop-out for all those lazy hunters thinking game will just appear in front of them if they drive 5 miles back into wilderness on a some sort of trail! Get out and walk, and do it the right way!
 

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