SFW at it again

[gleninaz]

They are called ConserveandProtectAZ and they had a meeting at Cabelas to plan the push for auction tags in Arizona again. You can bet that Don Peay and Pete Cemerillo are in the mix. Write the commissioners and the politicians as these guys will lobby hard for tags to sell off to their rich buddies. Here we go again.

 

[azhuntin]

I think you have this one all wrong. They were the ones that shut the humane society down this year. I was and still am against SFW and was extremely happy when they were shut down in 2012. This is totally different, you need to educate yourself on what their mission is. 100% of funds to be held by the AZ game and fish department and 100% of the money will go to educating the public on wildlife and wildlife management. They will not keep 1 cent of the money raised. Go to Jay Scott's podcast where there are 2 episodes explaining their mission. I thought the same as you when I first heard about it and did some research on it. I know everyone is on edge from what SFW tried in 2012, but the antis are out there and we need to be ready to fight back.

 

[bonecollector777]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-11-18 AT 09:12PM (MST)[p]The part people are scared about it is that it's a lot of the same people involved this time that was involved last time. I'm all for it if it's simply raffle tags with a cap on number of tickets able to be purchased per tag. As soon as they say they need to auction off premier tags that's when they can shove it up their a$$.

 

[Zim]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-18 AT 03:50AM (MST)[p]Not buyin what they are sellin. None of it. AZF&G still got their Sportsmen's Constituent Group from 2012? That was formed to snuff out this crap.

**********************************************
Wherever SFW & (insert bogus Don Peay org here) goes, scandal and corruption follow:

http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo

https://www.cascwild.org/don-peay-the-man-who-would-be-king-baron/

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...ares-north-american-hunting-model-“socialism”

http://www.standard.net/Recreation/...16-Western-Hunting-and-Conservation-Expo.html

http://www.mtbullypulpit.org/2012/06/pox-on-fox.html

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2013...on-essentially-buy-utah-division-of-wildlife/

http://westernvaluesproject.org/tax...hunting-energy-industry-over-hunters-anglers/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/u...-but-hunters-cry-foul.html?smid=pl-share&_r=2

http://www.themudflats.net/archives/25891

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4054427-155/rolly-lawyers-criticism-of-herbert-leads

 

[gleninaz]

Show me one post from that group on any site in AZ talking about the lion issue. I did more on that than they did by having my Romanian employees tell their 1000 church members to harass the stinky hippies collecting signatures. HSUS got 60000 signatures and needed 240000. Nice try but that is just an excuse to get Peay and his boys back on track to steal the tags. They hate the fact that they can't get tags like they did in Utah.

 

[azhuntin]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-18 AT 06:19AM (MST)[p]They kept the lion fight quiet. They did not want the humane society knowing what they were doing. They kept them from getting enough signatures to get it on the ballot. Not going to say how they did it, but it was a very smart move. I am not advocating for this new group or for tags, but I do know we as sportsman need to be ready to fight the antis. What is your idea for raising funds?
Your numbers are wrong, they only needed 151,000 verified signatures to get it on the ballot, not 240,000.

 

[gleninaz]

I am all for that fight. They did not even ask any other people to get involved? I see forums for conservation efforts and have never heard of them until this tag deal. Whatever the number was they fell far short so I am glad for any help but if they have people ready to write million dollar checks then why do they need a handful of tags to sell? Start a gofundme account and publicize it on all of our websites.

 

[sticksender]

I don't need to know anything else about this group, to know this: Any fundraising group who states that in order to raise money they require an expansion in government handouts so they can be given a fistful of these handouts to auction off, is a deeply flawed group.

 

[Captain_coues]

I'm not calling BS yet. This group was started with the support of many groups. Those groups are, The Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society, Arizona Elk Society, Arizona Deer Association, Arizona Antelope Foundation, Yuma Valley Rod and Gun Club, Arizona Bowhunters Association and the Arizona Chapter of the National Wild Turkey Federation. If it lacked support from any of them, then there's something to gripe about. The few members that are on the board of directors that were a part of the 2012 tag grab have to be explained because they did that behind our backs. This is different because they are welcoming our input and open to ideas.

 

[bonecollector777]

>I'm not calling BS yet.
>This group was started with
>the support of many groups.
> Those groups are, The
>Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society,
>Arizona Elk Society, Arizona Deer
>Association, Arizona Antelope Foundation, Yuma
>Valley Rod and Gun Club,
>Arizona Bowhunters Association and the
>Arizona Chapter of the National
>Wild Turkey Federation. If
>it lacked support from any
>of them, then there's something
>to gripe about. The
>few members that are on
>the board of directors that
>were a part of the
>2012 tag grab have to
>be explained because they did
>that behind our backs.
>This is different because they
>are welcoming our input and
>open to ideas.

This group was formed and then they went to these groups and attempted to get them on board. Matter of fact the adbss isnt even on board yet. Their president said he needed more info before fully committing. Since then the group has gotten most organizations on board. One thing I do know is this is going to get pushed through with or without our approval. We can only hope they can be truthful about their motives. So far they aren't off too a good start with their two meeting they've had being in secret and telling people literally hours before and then changing the meeting times.

 

[gleninaz]

I am sure every one of those groups would love to get some tags to sell at their fundraisers. I think half of the board was involved in the 2012 mess. People here don't like the idea of whoring out our big game tags for any reason at all. There must be a better way to raise funds for fighting the antis. You show me the amount of money they spent on the lion initiative and where that money went I will reconsider.

 

[Captain_coues]

777,
I know what you mean. ConserveandProtect sounds different than azsfw in a few areas. One area is that the top two directors weren't a part of the azsfw group from 2012. One of those I know well and has been a leader in a few of the critter orgs. Another is that from the get-go, they have been very open, to the point of welcoming Jay's podcast that reaches maybe thousands of AZ hunters and asking for input. Azsfw hid from us. The third thing I respect is that they are set on 100% of earnings to be used to educate and combat anti groups, right now we don't have a group that does that. This group is all volunteer. It's a new group so that may be why people aren't trusting very fast, but I follow the leader, and I like the top two.

 

[Zim]

?I think you have this one all wrong. 100% of funds to be held by the AZ game and fish department and 100% of the money will go to educating the public on wildlife and wildlife management. They will not keep 1 cent of the money raise.?

Trust is something that is earned, not given away. What on god?s green earth has SFW/Don Peay/(insert DP clandestine wildlife org here) done to earn anyone?s trust in the last 15 years. They have a well earned reputation that will never go away. Yet these forums are full of outfitter special interest groups that benefit financially and will continue to give support no matter what they do.

Prior to my actions against 2012 AZHB 2072, I had ten MM members either trash me or send me PM?s trying to convince me to jump on board in support. 9 of the 10 had disabled profiles. Over a two week span I was able to learn the identities of all ten parties. All ten were either outfitters or had outfitter related interests. The bill was handled in an unbelievable manner, tried to push through via emergency measure by a paid off lame duck Jerry Weiers. How short are people?s memories? Their credibility was long gone even before their most recent stunt in Utah disposing of RMEF?s legit bid to take over the SLC Expo.

This bunch is a complete joke. Don?t believe for one iota anyone that supports them.



********************************************
Wherever SFW goes, scandal and corruption follow:

http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo

https://www.cascwild.org/don-peay-the-man-who-would-be-king-baron/

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...ares-north-american-hunting-model-“socialism”

http://www.standard.net/Recreation/...16-Western-Hunting-and-Conservation-Expo.html

http://www.mtbullypulpit.org/2012/06/pox-on-fox.html

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2013...on-essentially-buy-utah-division-of-wildlife/

http://westernvaluesproject.org/tax...hunting-energy-industry-over-hunters-anglers/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/u...-but-hunters-cry-foul.html?smid=pl-share&_r=2

http://www.themudflats.net/archives/25891

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4054427-155/rolly-lawyers-criticism-of-herbert-leads

 

[azhuntin]

I know what this group did to win against the Humane society and I am grateful for that. Anyway we do need a dedicated group that can raise money and fight the antis. Not saying this is the group and not saying I agree with selling tags, not sure why it cannot be operated like some of the other sportsmans groups, raising money thru memberships, donations, banquets, etc.

 

[WapitiBob]

"not sure why it cannot be operated like some of the other sportsmans groups, raising money thru memberships, donations, banquets, etc. "

Because these ass clowns want to auction YOUR tags.

 

[Dirtbag]

Anytime they talk about taking draw tags and turning them into auction tags I get worried. Auction tags are for the few that can afford to spend $315k on a sheep tag. If we let them do this then in 25 yrs tags could go to 90% nobles and 10% peasants.......

 

[azhuntin]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-18 AT 06:48PM (MST)[p]They stated the vast majority of tags would be $5-$10 raffle tags, with very few auction tags, but we all know how things can change.

 

[ASB]

I'm in enough "know" & this stinks. They want to AUCTION the good tags.....raffle tags will be the lesser ones like late bull or even cow tags. I guide here..... I could sit by & say to "bring it on" so I can have a chance at guiding some auction boys, but I can't stomach this.

But, they are playing careful politics this go around....fact is many are "listening" this time, when it was outrage in 2012.

I can assure you....this time is no different, no matter the spin. I'm shocked this is even getting consideration, cause once those early bull, desert sheep & strip tags get taken out of the regular draw.....THEY ARE GONE FoOREVER!!!!!

NO AUCTION TAGS...!!!!!!

It's obvious.....no need to hear about the politics side, as that is DEFLECTION.......from someone who knows the insiders!

I'm out

 

[azhuntin]

I think you guys are right after looking into the current az sfw, a lot of the same names. I am against any auction tags coming out of the general tag numbers as it will probably be abused as it is in Utah, but we as sportsman need to form a group to be able to fight the antis, but this isnt it in my opinion.

 

[gleninaz]

The new group has all of the old groups in it. If they want to do something they need to secure a lobbyist and not the one owned by Jerry Wier's daughter. Find out the cost of retaining them to get a bill introduced in the legislature making Game and Fish not subject to ballot initiatives. I am sure they can convince our leaders that biology should manage wildlife and not emotion or out of state funding. Get the cost out there and ask for donations to fund the effort.

 

[AZ8]

The hunting community is fractured. We have a bunch of clans each pushing their own agenda. Things can get pretty heated and emotional.

With that said, nothing unites the community faster than having an organization come up with a fund raiser and use the the words "Auction tags",

I understand the need to fight the antis. Unfortunately money is the nature of the beast. But there's gotta be a better way.

I might get on board with raffle tags. Might. But no way if they are auction tags.

 

[gleninaz]

If you oppose giving tags you better write the Governor, legislators and the commission. Let them know about this and remind them of the 2012 attempt and the example of what happened in Utah. Write democrats and republicans. Best to inform people at the top in politics. Last time they used Jerry Wiers to introduce the bill and his daughter's lobbying firm to sell it the politicians. You know they have already lobbied politicians and the commission on this venture. Write them if you are supporting it as well so they can get a flavor of the truth. If the new group is saying they are all for transparency they should thank us for writing.

 

[gleninaz]

There is an ADA meeting Tuesday night at 6:30 at the Bass Pro Shops in Mesa. All have been invited and Pete C. from SFW will be there to answer questions. Attend if you can.

 

[AZ4life]

Doesn't pass the smell test to me at this point. Seems like they are just trying to take advantage of the recent lion initiative as a scare tactic to get what they want(auction and raffle tags). Nothing about this seems like it MUST be funded by taking tags away and giving them to auctions and raffles. Why not try other ways. They know all the average sportsmen are against raising funds in that manner.

 

[Captain_coues]

I don't like what I hear either even though at first I was willing. That's after listening to about 3 hours of podcasts, some of them more than once and listening to the opinions of others and thinking about it for a week.

 

[Hawkeye]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-18 AT 08:00AM (MST)[p]Don't do it. Once you go down that road there is no turning back. It will start off as a small number of tags that "will benefit sportsmen as a whole." But over time, the tag numbers will increase. More premium tags will be sold. Special interest groups will gain a stronger voice. These tags will become a divise issue among sportsmen in your state. The parties will become more addicted to the money. There will be a temptation to manage game so as to maximize the return on the money tags. The tail will eventually wag the dog.

Money tags are like a cancer. Once they get a toe hold in your state you will never be able to get rid of them.


-Hawkeye-

 

[Willametteriveroutlaw]

I'm not a huge fan of selling off all of our wildlife to the highest bidder, that being said in Oregon we have 5 deer, 5 elk, 1ea sheep, antelope, and mtn goat, as well as a matching number of raffle tags. All of the money raised here got us a bunch of private lands opened for everyone to hunt. So we all did see the benefit.

I don't know as much about the AZ situation.

 

[gleninaz]

We already have a similar deal here. The sheep tag went for $300000 last year. This is for many more tags like 150 to start.

 

[WapitiBob]

Jay Scott's doing everything he can to push this thing.

 

[gleninaz]

I attended the ADA meeting last night. Was surprised when one of us outsiders suggested a habitat stamp to cover the education needs of Game and Fish. $2 would raise $1 million each year. They are saying the tag sales proceeds would go 100% to G&F for education. They seemed to have thought of zero ideas other than selling tags. I am smelling a fix already on this one. Too many stories that are reversed when we ask pointed questions. The entire deal was over HSUS and needing money to fight them. Now it all is going to go to G&F to advertise what great people hunters are. Makes no sense. Why even bring up the sale of tags if the money is not for the political fight?

 

[WapitiBob]

I haven't seen any discussion other than here, nothing on coueswhitetail at all.

 

[ArizonaBuild]

http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forum...otectazorg-unit-wide-raffle-and-auction-tags/

 

[hornkiller]

Look what they have done to ut enough said! Hio5e you guys get rid of them before they ruin AZ.

 

[BeDawg]

I agree I am very hesitant to take public tags and allow some people to have control of that type of money. The cause sounds good but do to the lack of transparency the Utah system has, that is the last rabbit hole I would like the State to entertain.

 

[hossblur]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-22-18 AT 11:20PM (MST)[p]A quick history lesson.

$fw started in Utah because there was legit concern that our DWR was not paying attention to hunters opinions.

Then, Prop 5 came up and $fw was huge in rallying Utahns to the cause.

Both of those things were great causes, needed, all positive. Then while we weren't watching the cancer started.

Utah now has roughly 500 tags auctioned off yearly. We give millions of unaccounted money to $fw. Don Peay used his early success to become one of the most powerful lobbyists in the state.

I hope you guys listen to us idiots north of you. Once that auctioning starts, the average AZ hunter gets lost.

Don't let a smokescreen of fighting antis cost you.

Look at Utah. We give $fw twin brother BGF $360k to "fight" off wolves. We have them on both ends of the state, but the check clears.

Good luck keeping the $fw cancer at bay




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[DonMartin]

Dang Glen, get your facts right. First of all Jerry Weiers only daughter is named Chrissy and she works for the VA; and is not involved in any hunting efforts, duh!

I haven't heard enough about the proposal to comment intelligently on it. I would encourage you all to do the research and then state your opinion.

Don Martin

 

[mike111]

Arizona DOES NOT want to do what Utah has done by auctioning tags. UTAH is now ruined to to draw any type of quality tag, and we definitely don't want the same thing to happen in Arizona...Do whatever possible to fight this group...

 

[YBO]

Are we okay with raffle tags but not auction tags Hoss? Just curious. Thanks

 

[Hawkeye]

I am not a fan or raffle or auction tags. They both result in taking tags out fo the general draw to pimp out in the name of money. If I had to choose between the two, I would probably choose raffle tags over auction tags. But mark my words, once you start down the tag pimping road, there is no turning back. Over time, a few tags will turn into more tags. Raffle tags will turn into auction tags. The addiction to money will trump everything else.

-Hawkeye-

 

[hossblur]

>Are we okay with raffle tags
>but not auction tags Hoss?
> Just curious. Thanks



You should read hawkeyes post, he nailed it.

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[Dirtbag]

This issue is not just going to disappear.... please educate yourself and others on what this organization is trying to do and tell them "NO" Tell them that the majority sportsman and sports women of Arizona do not support this tag grab initiative....

Greg

 

[YukonDall]

LETS NOT START THIS CANCER IN ARIZONA, UTAH WAS BAD ENOUGH. IT TOOK ME 14 YEARS TO DRAW THE DEER TAG IN SHOULD HAVE DRAWN IN 7-8 YEARS AS A NON RESIDENT.

ONCE THE TAGS ARE GONE, ARIZONA WILL NEVER GET THEM BACK !!!!!! HISTORY TELLS US A STORY WE MUST NOT REPEAT, LETS KEEP THE SYSTEM SO THE AVERAGE JOE CAN DRAW. THE RICH GUY CAN DRAW A TAG ALONG WITH THE REST OF US..........YD.

 

[264mag]

>
> LETS NOT START THIS
>CANCER IN ARIZONA, UTAH WAS
>BAD ENOUGH. IT TOOK
>ME 14 YEARS TO DRAW
>THE DEER TAG IN SHOULD
>HAVE DRAWN IN 7-8 YEARS
>AS A NON RESIDENT.
>
> ONCE THE TAGS
>ARE GONE, ARIZONA WILL NEVER
>GET THEM BACK !!!!!!
> HISTORY TELLS US A
>STORY WE MUST NOT REPEAT,
>LETS KEEP THE SYSTEM SO
>THE AVERAGE JOE CAN DRAW.
> THE RICH GUY CAN
>DRAW A TAG ALONG WITH
>THE REST OF US..........YD.
You got that right !

 

[Zim]

>> ONCE THE TAGS
>>ARE GONE, ARIZONA WILL NEVER
>>GET THEM BACK !!!!!!

You got that right. Same as welfare & EBT cards.


**********************************************
Wherever SFW goes, scandal and corruption follow:

http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo

https://www.cascwild.org/don-peay-the-man-who-would-be-king-baron/

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...ares-north-american-hunting-model-“socialism”

http://www.standard.net/Recreation/...16-Western-Hunting-and-Conservation-Expo.html

http://www.mtbullypulpit.org/2012/06/pox-on-fox.html

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2013...on-essentially-buy-utah-division-of-wildlife/

http://westernvaluesproject.org/tax...hunting-energy-industry-over-hunters-anglers/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/u...-but-hunters-cry-foul.html?smid=pl-share&_r=2

http://www.themudflats.net/archives/25891

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4054427-155/rolly-lawyers-criticism-of-herbert-leads

 

[JayScottOutdoors]

>Jay Scott's doing everything he can
>to push this thing.

Bob-I'm not pushing anything other than I tried to get the word out to the public as quickly as possible before I left town for a month. You sir need to get your facts straight. Do I respect Pete? Yes I do. He has volunteered for over 40 years for sportsman. People have the right to hear the facts then make up their mind where they stand. Guys that I know in the trenches everyday are telling me that AZ is going to be in trouble, I'm not sure what the solution is but there is trouble brewing. Awareness is a huge part of getting problems solved. I've been in Mexico for a month on my Gould?s turkey hunts but I'm hearing some great ideas and conversations have been brought forward. Hopefully Sportsman will rally and get a solution.


Jay Scott Outdoors
Western Big Game
Hunting and Fishing Podcast
on iTunes for Apple users and
Podbean for Android/PC users
Website Instagram
Facebook YouTube

 

[hossblur]

>>Jay Scott's doing everything he can
>>to push this thing.
>
>Bob-I'm not pushing anything other than
>I tried to get the
>word out to the public
>as quickly as possible before
>I left town for a
>month. You sir need
>to get your facts straight.
> Do I respect Pete?
>Yes I do. He
>has volunteered for over 40
>years for sportsman. People
>have the right to hear
>the facts then make up
>their mind where they stand.
> Guys that I know
>in the trenches everyday are
>telling me that AZ is
>going to be in trouble,
>I'm not sure what the
>solution is but there is
>trouble brewing. Awareness is
>a huge part of getting
>problems solved. I've been
>in Mexico for a month
>on my Gould?s turkey hunts
>but I'm hearing some great
>ideas and conversations have been
>brought forward. Hopefully Sportsman
>will rally and get a
>solution.
>
>
>Jay Scott Outdoors
>Western Big Game
>Hunting and Fishing Podcast
>on iTunes for Apple users and
>
>Podbean for Android/PC users
>Website Instagram
>Facebook YouTube

Don't have a dog in this as a Utahn, but I hope you guys look long and hard. I've listened to Jays podcasts on the issue. I don't think Jay is slanted on it.

But i noticed it went from the original proposal where Pete didn't want any expo type situation, to the most recent where an expo type idea was floated after the auction tags were stopped.

The second that idea got floated it exposed what this is. Look at Utah's financials concerning the expo. It funds SFW and MDF. The excuse of "conservation" is just that. You don't need a 3rd party sucking up millions to fund "education".

Beware. Once that camel is under the tent, SPORTSMEN HAVE LOST.
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[gleninaz]

If you live here and have a few minutes write every G&F commissioner and recommend Andrew Gillett from Gilbert Arizona to the new tag grab committee. Andrew is Flatlander on cousewhitetail.com and will represent the regular Joe hunters here who do not make a living off of the wildlife. I think Don Peay already has a commissioner in his pocket as Davis took off the table any idea to raise fees to get money. We recommended a low cost Heritage Stamp. I am thinking they already have the grab done here this time. Thanks.