Big Manti Bulls Gone Forever???

spotit1st

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I was talking to a reliable source today and he told me about a program we all are aware of, its called depredation permits for landowners who have elk/deer problems in the winter.. Now I know that the Manti area has opened this area up for extended archery this year, to help keep elk up on the mountain higher and off roads and to reduce damage to landowners property.

Im sure you are all aware that some/most landowners have sold their hunting rights to someone that is charging $2500.00 to hunt this property. Now keep in mind this guy is feeding the Elk and has people with $$$$$ paying to hunt, which is great for them. But what do you think they are shooting. Yes sir BIG BULLS ONLY. Who would pay that kind of $$$$ for a cow..

I think the average guy who has put in for 5-11 years and has points, and wants to hunt this area, and knows where his BIG BULL hangs every year may find his bull at the Taxidermy right now...

The reason I bring this up is when a landowner has elk on his property causing problems, all he has to do is call the DWR and complain and they usually give them cow permits to chase the Elk off their property. These permits go until the end of January unlike the extended archery which only goes until December 31st. Now that sounds like a better solution to the promblem kill the cow elk and chase the bulk of the heard off your property. Or feed the elk into your property kill the biggest bulls and still have cow elk hanging out all over.. Then when the end of December comes their still all over while the rest of the State that has problems has depredation permits until the end of January.

It seems to me that this would be the way to go. Yes believe it or not the OLD way does work better sometimes..

But to all you that care they will get at least 1 more year to kill all of your BIG BULLS on the Manti next winter.

Happy Hunting...
 
The only permits the Utah DWR have ever Issued to any landowners I know of are (mitigation permits) Cow Elk Only, and yes they run until the end of January. Depredation permits are issued to the public on a first come first save basis

David H
 
Sorry MM that could of been what I meant the source told me they give the landowner 10 permits and he can sell them to anyone who wants one. They get a coupon and pay 60 dollars for it or more if the Landowner can get more money out of it.

Thanks for clearing that up!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-03 AT 12:55PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-03 AT 12:54?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-03 AT 12:44?PM (MST)

The Manti is SPIKE ONLY for general season hunters. The extended archery hunt is an extention of the general season, therefore it would be illegal to shoot a mature bull during that hunt. If land owners are selling hunting rights for big $$$, to hunt the extended archery season, it can only be for spike bulls. Who would pay $2500 for a spike? Doesn't make any sense to me.
The F&G is not going to issue depredation tags for bulls to landowners, they will issue only cow tags. If any depredation tags for bulls are given they are controlled under the supervison of wildlife officers. An officer will be present at the time of harvest. That according to people I know of that have obtained bull depredation tags for other units.
 
Your right that is a spike only unit BUT read the proclamation again and it says 1 elk of hunters choice on subsection 2(a)and if you don't believe that call the DWR they will confirm it for you...!
 
Well to answer the Original question, "Big Manti Bulls Gone Forever?" - No, they are not gone nor will they be in the forseeable future. The State record typical was just shot off the Manti this year.

As for the wintering problems, Yes the archers can shoot any elk - branch antlered or not. In the years past they have tried to control the herd with late season rifle tags. These tags were taken from the Quota and dispersed via the draw, just like the rest of the LTD rifle tags. Much of time the bulls are together in a herd and are not with the cows at this time of year.

I think the depredation cow permits given to landowners are a good thing for landowners and public when it comes to elk. They are not given out like candy, rather the landowner must show proof of damage. The landowner then can sell the cow permits to offset damages, and the elk still get to live on their lands.
 
You're right the big bulls are disapearing of the Manti. I live in this area and I have seen a decline in the guality of bulls in this area. I blame this on too many tag's on the Manti and the depredation bull tag's. Last year I saw alot of herd bulls that were small six's and five point's. Problem is this unit is not managed as a trophy unit, it is managed for four and five year old bulls. The record bull they killed last year lived in an area that nobody really ever hunted. Just lucky to have lived long enough to get trophy size. Their are a few trophy bulls on this unit but it is not one of the premier units in the state. I believe that if you want an average bull this is your unit, but if you want trophy quality look elsewhere. Good luck on the draw!!!
 
Bishop? In my religion bishops usually don't lie. This is one of the top units in the state. Obviously your not hunting in the right place. If you need some help on hunting this unit maybe I can help you.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-04 AT 02:39PM (MST)[p]The Manti is not delcining in quality. My uncle and a friend of mine both drew tags last year. Believe me there were plenty of big bulls running around. My family has hunted there for over 50 years and it keeps getting better. More and bigger bulls every year. My friends bull gross 374. He almost turned it down because we had seen bigger bulls while scouting.
 
Has anyone seen or know of any mature bulls that came off the Extended archery in the Sanpete Valley this year? I have heard of 8 so far that scored from 300 to 380 and 2 that scored less.
 
albinobull: You're right bishop's don't lie. The manti is far from being one of the best unit's in the state. Check out some of the other's. I have been hunting this unit for 28 years and I hunt some of the best area's. I regularly help people get an elk in this unit just because I like to hunt elk and proably never will draw my own tag. Got 10 points and still can't draw a tag. If you check the Utah elk management plan you will find out that this unit is managed for four and five year old bulls. I have been taking pictures of the elk who winter on the Sanpete side of the mountain for the last several years and the quality of bulls has declined. I also believe that the big bull problem they have on this side of the mountain is directly related to the clousure of Canal canyon, making it a roadless area. Nobody hunt's this area because it is almost inpossible to get an elk out before it spoil's. I think they should open the area up during the elk hunt and allow atv's on the old roads to allow people to retrieve downed elk and deer they could close it again after the hunt's. They never had this problem until they closed this area. Just my theory. Lot's of luck on the draw.
 
Wouldn't the closure of a canyon to motorized vehicles increase the age and number of bulls???? I also believe that the Manti and most of the state is managed for 5-6 year old bulls, while units like the Pahvant, SW Des, Deeps, and others are managed for 7-8 year olds, and the Cache No, Oak Creek, and others as a 3-4 year old units. The Manti is a solid unit that with some effort a hunter can shoot a 350+ bull, which is all that should be expected on any unit.
 
How does shutting a road down make a unit worse? I myself ain't afraid of doing a little hiking to harvest an elk. If anything, it will just make the unit better. And as far as the Elk declining in quality, bigger bulls are shot each year on this unit. Bottom line: There are some nice bulls on this unit. You just might have to get off your atv to find one.
 
I never said closing an area would make a unit worse. I beleive I said that closing this area caused some of the problem that Sanpete is having with the big bulls coming down on the highway and on private property. If sombody hits an elk and gets killed in this area because of this area being shut down to vehicle access I believe the forest service could be held liable. Their are only so many big bulls on this unit, I don't see how increasing the amount of tags every year on this unit would not effect the quality of bulls taken. I agree their have been some nice bulls taken off this unit and if I ever get a big bull tag I will try and get off my atv and find a good one.
 
I was curious about the Sanpete Extended Archery hunt, so I sent an email to the DWR inquiring as to the purpose and goals of the hunt. Steve Flinders sent back a reply regarding these maters, so I thought I'd pass it along. This is his reply:

"I appreciate your concern and this opportunity to exchange. Sorry to keep you waiting for this reply, but I just met with the individuals that leased the property you suggest at the end of last week. There has been a lot of time and energy devoted to elk management in Sanpete county specifically. In the way of history, for the last 5-6 years elk have been using these private lands and they have been primarily bulls--Why?...the cows are kept out of the valley because of the late season hunting pressure and as a result winter on higher slopes on natural vegetation. Bull numbers steadily increased and so have the problems. It would be different if these elk had no other choices or were essential in maintianing the quality of elk on the Manti. But these bulls were growing in numbers, despite easy winters with bare ground showing, for the last several years. We used alternate hunters (hunters next in line to draw the Limited Entry Sept permits) the last 2 years and killed some 45 mature bulls with rifles in November and December to lower the number of bulls wintering on private lands. We "held back" permits from the drawing to take this harvest into
consideration."

"The objectives of this archery hunt involved using public hunting pressure to move elk away from agricultural areas and especially the safety risks of crossing Hwy 89. It was never meant as a great mature bull harvesting opportunity. This worked marvelously in moving bulls away from the highway corridor and in keeping them out of open agricultural landscapes. Very few bulls were taken, including the 4 taken on the leased property where they were baited and hunted from blinds. I saw pictures of these elk and the largest was barely 300 class. These guys charged $2500 for access and only had 6 takers."

"The largest bull was actually taken west of the highway, very early in the hunt, and was a nice 330 class bull. I too am frustrated with the leased property feeding/baitng situation but ask you to realize the private property rights involved. These are the very reasons why we don't want elk on private land for extended periods of time when they don't really need to be. Some of these landowners refused rifle hunter access last year as well. The State's hands are largely tied and the public loses opportunity to hunt or otherwise access and enjoy these animals. Where free access was granted, this 6 week long hunt lasted about 3 days. That is how long it took for the elk to figure out the boundary. All these hunters were very effective at moving elk and only a few were harvested, mostly young bulls. It is our hope that these animals will soon realieze the timing and boundaries of these hunts and redistribute themselves on wintering areas we prefer them to inhabit.
Please particiapte in Regional Advisory Council and/or Wildlife Board meetings where the public has the opportunity to discuss and authorize these hunting strategies. In closing, one alternative to this kind of hunting is to quit trying to move these bulls and simply let them roam where they want and give permits, in some fashion, to landowners for compensation. These for now are permits that are currently issued to the public."
 

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