Colo. Appl. Scam??

PleaseDear · Feb 11, 2004

I see where it says/proposed that you can use a Credit Card to appy this year and it says that you will be charged the full tag fee when you apply??? How can you be charged something you don't even know if you are going to 'buy' until the draw?? If you order something from say cabelas' and it is on backorder, you don't get a charge until it is shipped to you.......Then if unsuccessfull you will get a refund check sent to you??? Why not a credit back to the card???

Whats up with the $253.25 buy a preference point??? No refund. If you are unsuccessfull going for a tag you get a full refund-minus fees, but if you go for the point code only it will cost you the $253.25?????!!!!!!! no refund on point codes.

I'm way confused!

BUCKSPY · Feb 11, 2004

Let me aleviate some of your confusion. Anybody and their uncle can apply for and get a tag of some sort in this state. Hundreds of thousands of people apply for licenses. The application deadline is in the first week of April and the refunds are mailed a couple months later. Seems like a hell of alot of interest would acrue on hundreds of thousands of application fees over a couple month period. Money, money, money, money............MONEY. You've got the scam part right.

The preference point thing sounds like a misprint or a mis-read.
I can't believe those moneygrubbers would stoop that low as to gouge people for points with a full price charge.

ridgewalker · Feb 11, 2004

I totally agree with the scam part.. I've always thought that it was a joke that these states could take our money and make money off of it and in some cases we get nothing out of it except a 5 or 10 % chance to draw a tag or if we are lucky a bonus or preference point.. but it's the game, and if we want a chance to for a GOOD hunt, we must play it.
As for the 253.50 for the preference point..You do get the refund for that..
I guess they think they are being nice by not making you send in as much $ for just a preference point..Same idea though..

txhunter58 · Feb 11, 2004

Presently, they do keep your money until the drawing is complete. However, they then refund all you money except a $3 application charge. This includes the preference point money. You get a refund of $250.25 after the drawing. As far as collecting interest on the money, you may be right, but I have had 2 different people in the DOW swear to me that they have to have that money in NON-INTEREST bearing accounts. That there is a state law against getting interest on the money. That seems pretty bone headed to me too. Then no one is getting interest on the money. I would just as soon they get some interest, so they don't have to keep raising prices as much.

That aside, the current DRAFT proposal for the next five years (starting in 2005) has a proposal to start charging nonresidents a NON-REFUNDABLE $250 for a preference point. You have until Feb. 17 to send them comments, so I would encourage all interested hunters to send them your comments. Especially any residents who would oppose this idea, because us nonresdidents really have no say.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

DeerKing · Feb 11, 2004

If you are a nonresident and want a preference point and you have the $253 to front anyway just put in for a unit you know you won't draw for (check the stats/preference book or online). There are many units that 99% of the hunters could never draw. Then your $250 WOULD BE refunded after the draw along with a preference point.

TheKnack · Feb 11, 2004

I agree with what DeerKing is saying but will add if you still want to hunt put in for a gimme unit for your second choice.
You will get charged for the hunting license and can hunt and you will get a pref. point as well.
Best,
Jerry

BruinBreath · Feb 11, 2004

I also agree with DeerKing. Just put down unit 10 early rifle bull elk as a first choice instead of a preference point. Unless you have 16 + points your not gonna draw in this lifetime. If people are stupid enough to "buy" the point then they get what they deserve.

PleaseDear · Feb 11, 2004

Thanks guys............BUT the $250.00 point fee is for/equal to non-res. COW-elk fee if ya go for the unit you would never draw anyways logic...Bull unit 10 or what ever. I already thought about that 'angle' but that 'angle' would cost $490.00 to pull off....Right???

I'm iffy on point codes anyways but that 'idea' and the 'charge the credit card applicant full tag fees' before the draw takes place really got me wondering..........

kilowatt · Feb 11, 2004

If you want a Pref. Point in Nevada or Arizona YOU pay for the cost of the Hunting License. Nevada is going to $142.00 this year, don't know what Arizona charges yet.
If you don't draw a tag and want a Pref. Point towards next years draw, YOU FORFIT your cost for the License, but get your money back for the cost of the tag that you were trying to draw.

Brian

2_Point · Feb 11, 2004

I say good for Colorado. If paying the whole fee upfront causes 20% less applicants then I see that as a good thing. Seems like a positive for me and we get the $$$ back after the draw.

I have yet one more Utah complaint. When Utah started accepting credit cards and Internet applications, the draw odds went to horrible stats. Every Robb, Cal, and Mike can put himself, Dad, Mom, cousin, sister, nephew, Father-in-law, second cousin, polygamist family, and ex-wife in Utah's draw and only have to pay if they draw. Arizona and Nevada's odds have also gone in the tiolet since they allowed Internet apps and Credit Cards.

Robb, Good luck on the draws. Not that you need it you lucky llama packing fool. Take care.

txhunter58 · Feb 11, 2004

LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-04 AT 08:49PM (MST)[p]I have already thought of that Deerking (putting in for a unit your are gauranteed NOT get drawn). However, I suspect that the DOW has already thoght of that dodge. From reading the Draft, I am worried that even if you do that, you will not be refunded the tag fee IF you want them to give you a preference point. In other words, they will still charge you unless you get drawn on a second choice. After all, they know that is what people did (putting in for a hard to draw unit) before there was a preference point code.

I asked that very question to the DOW last week and they were unable to give me a straight answer.

The Knack's idea is a great way to get around it, but not if you can't hunt that particular year.

Also, if they do put some tags (20-30% is proposed) in the "premiere" units up for a lottery, then everyone will have a "shot" at the tag. Good for the guys who are lucky enough to draw, but the guys who are already putting in for that unit probably don't want the extra people putting in for that license.

I have never been against lending them the money for 3 months during the draw. As stated, that does eliminate a lot of competition putting in for a license. Just want most of it back after the draw.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

AZbowhntr · Feb 11, 2004

I agree. You can look at the # of applications and the draw odds in AZ if you want to see what happens when you go from having to pay in advance to doing it online and not paying unless you draw. I liked the old days when there where a lot less people applying. Especially when you look at the Bighorn Sheep and Buffalo.

PleaseDear · Feb 12, 2004

kilowatt,
I see what your saying, for the price of TWO great quality Elk states in Az. and Nv. for license/point if ya don't draw and a REFUND check for tag fee, your paying more in Colo. for a point and NO REFUND check in a lesser quality state for bulls. That makes a guy really have to think it out for sure.

Lets say it takes a guy 5-7 years to finally draw in Nv. or Az. and if ya times the license fee/point cost over those year and then add in the years tag fees that ya finally draw it could be like a $2000.00 elk tag for an opportunity at a 'Cover' bull vs 5-7 years of no- refund $250.00 (or greater) point in Colo. would be a $3000.00 bull tag when ya finally draw and maybe get a bull that ya might mount let alone a 'Cover' quality. Man that adds up fast don't it...........

No matter how hard I try not to, I'm very rapidly becoming a Consumer that hunts other states..... man that sucks!! ha

txhunter58 · Feb 12, 2004

Just to clarify, presently you DO get all but $3 back after the draw on applying for a preference point. They are only thinking of changing it to being nonrefundable.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

COHunter · Feb 13, 2004

I went to one of the 5 year BGSS meeting they had last Wednesday, and you guys have nothing to worry about. Things are gonna remain the "status quo" with the exception of maybe giving residents a couple more tags in some "already too hard" to draw area's.

They just have these meetings to pacify us residents, to make it look like they care about what we have to say.

So Colorado will remain the "Plan "B" State" when you guys can't draw a decent tag elsewhere's, and got no other place to go.

I do think that letting people apply with a Credit Card might make drawing a decent Deer area as a 2nd choice a wee bit harder since I bet a lot more "Joe's" are gonna apply

PleaseDear · Feb 14, 2004

77% yeh, 77% of the Colo. Div. Wildlife revenue comes from non-res. license sales...... I couldn't believe it when I read it myself!!
Someone on this thread stated it is all about the MONEY so go figure who they are going to patronize to hunt.....The Plan A should be from res. to take over and flip-flop that figure so the split is better for res. bigtime and that would mean double or tripling res. fees to convince the powers that be at the CDW that the res. hunters really want the full control of all the MONEY that they need to continue. Not a single penny of a res. taxes, sales tax or all the other state taxes goes into the CDW budget. They are self-sustaining via license revenue. We went thru it over here and now we have a 90/10 res./non-res. split on tags. We showed our UDW that we would pay and make up the MONEY difference.
A budget is gross amount of income.

ElmerFudd · Feb 15, 2004

Yes, CO allows 40% nonresidents to draw, and charges about 15 times the price. Throw in the unlimited elk tags, and about 80% funding is the result. In UT, the ratio of resident to nonresident fees is lower, closer to 5:1. Yes, if CO residents want fewer nonresidents, they will have to pay more. Nonresident hunters in most western states pay more for licenses than a lot of residents pay in state taxes.